Threelon Musk: pl3ase lik3 m3

[Dex Sawash]

In the UK, we call them froots.

Opel Froot, earlier

[Mr_Simnock]

Opel Froot, earlier

what a disater that was, less than 1,000 sold and it wasn't that bad a car

[Blue Jam]

Opel Froot, earlier

The 1998 model:

Spoiler alert

[close]

[buzby]

what a disater that was, less than 1,000 sold and it wasn't that bad a car

They sold 9165 Opel Speedsters/Vauxhall VX220s between 2000 and 2005 (4500 each of the NA and Turbo models with the UK getting 2750 of each, along with 100 VX220 Lightning Yellow and 65 VXR220 special editons). The deal GM made with Lotus was for 10000 cars, the money from which allowed Lotus to develop the Series 2 Elise.

The VX220 used a longer wheelbase version of the Elise S2 chassis, which after production ended was then reused by Lotus as the basis of the chassis it built for the Tesla Roadsters (similar to how Colin Chapman recycled the Esprit chassis for the Delorean).

[touchingcloth]

Opel Froot, earlier

No licence numbers on it, that's illegal!!

Elon would like that, I'm sure. I've just noticed that in the CYBERFUCK video upthread it looks like it has a plate on the rear but not the front, even though it's being driven on what look like public roads. How's that work? Youtubers playing fast and loose, or Tesla somehow exempted in the state of wherever?

[Ferris]

No licence numbers on it, that's illegal!!

Elon would like that, I'm sure. I've just noticed that in the CYBERFUCK video upthread it looks like it has a plate on the rear but not the front, even though it's being driven on what look like public roads. How's that work? Youtubers playing fast and loose, or Tesla somehow exempted in the state of wherever?

That's legal in the US/Canada, depending on where you are.

In my province, you are required to have a license plate on the back only (that's all I have). The front is optional and you have to pay for your own plates, so why pay 2x if you don't have to - it's quite unusual to have both here. In fact you're allowed to put a vanity plate on the front, even one from other jurisdictions as long as it's expired.

Chap down the road from us has his old NWT license plate on the front of his pickup and his current NS one on the back (though fair enough, the NWT ones are very cool). If you couldn't see the NWT ones are expired you'd think he had a vehicle from a completely different jurisdiction until you saw the back. Even more bafflingly, he's welsh so it just goes to show.

[Fambo Number Mive]

You'd think police departments would be against that, unless US/Canada plates aren't readable from another car anyway (they do look harder to read than UK plates).

[buzby]

No licence numbers on it, that's illegal!!

Elon would like that, I'm sure. I've just noticed that in the CYBERFUCK video upthread it looks like it has a plate on the rear but not the front, even though it's being driven on what look like public roads. How's that work? Youtubers playing fast and loose, or Tesla somehow exempted in the state of wherever?

Tesla's factory (and where those demo trucks were registered) is in Texas. Officially Texas is a 'two plate' state, i.e. you need to have both front and rear plates on a vehicle (there are 19 US states where you only need a rear plate, which includes all the ones that border Texas). It's a $200 fine if the police can be bothered to stop you for not having a front plate (I guess if you are not from an ethnic minority helps in that regard).
https://versustexas.com/blog/two-license-plates-texas/

There is a removable section in the middle of the front bumper/grille to mount a US-sized plate, with fit and finsh to match the excellent standards found in the rest of the vehicle:

[touchingcloth]

you have to pay for your own plates, so why pay 2x if you don't have to

As in if you want to put the non-mandatory plate on the front then you pay for that rather than the DVLA or whatever? It's the same in Portugal - our car got flagged on its latest MOT for having peeling plates, and we had to pay for new ones rather than applying for freebies.

Mad that the laws vary from province to province. What do people do if they make a long drive, or live on a border?

[touchingcloth]

Tesla's factory (and where those demo trucks were registered) is in Texas. Officially Texas is a 'two plate' state, i.e. you need to have both front and rear plates on a vehicle (there are 19 US states where you only need a rear plate, which includes all the ones that border Texas). It's a $200 fine if the police can be bothered to stop you for not having a front plate (I guess if you are not from an ethnic minority helps in that regard).
https://versustexas.com/blog/two-license-plates-texas/

California is a two-plater as well, apparently. I can't be arsed watching it again, but the video review talked about Tesla's assurances that icing wouldn't be a problem for operating their unusual door handles, and I think he mentioned not having a way to test that cos he was based in California.

[Mr_Simnock]

They sold 9165 Opel Speedsters/Vauxhall VX220s between 2000 and 2005 (4500 each of the NA and Turbo models with the UK getting 2750 of each, along with 100 VX220 Lightning Yellow and 65 VXR220 special editons)

do you have a link to anything that proves this?

[buzby]

As in if you want to put the non-mandatory plate on the front then you pay for that rather than the DVLA or whatever? It's the same in Portugal - our car got flagged on its latest MOT for having peeling plates, and we had to pay for new ones rather than applying for freebies.

Mad that the laws vary from province to province. What do people do if they make a long drive, or live on a border?

It's the same in the UK as well - you have to buy your own plates. In the US, if you live in a rear-plate-only state and are driving through or visiting a two plate state you don't have to fit a front one, but cars with out-of-state plates will tend to garner more interest from the local and state police.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Some states seem to have grace periods for plates too. Steve Jobs exploited this by getting a Merc (I think) dealer to have a pool of two Mercs he could lease alternately for 6 months at a time so he didn't have to have plates which he reckoned ruined the aesthetic (presumably a flat mounting plate/lugs were somehow not aesthetically bad in his mind).

[Ferris]

You'd think police departments would be against that, unless US/Canada plates aren't readable from another car anyway (they do look harder to read than UK plates).

The idea (I think?) is the rozzers run the front plate, see it's expired, then run the back plate instead (or something). The plates are usually* embossed steel with reflective stuff so they're impressively legible.

@touchingcloth if your license plate is an "easy-peeler" you get them free here, I think. If not, you have to fork out for them. Fuck buying more than I'm legislatively required to. As for long drives, I think you just do it and hope for the best - I know two people who drove across the country and back on NS plates this summer and they had no issues.

_{Ontario is experimenting with flat, printed license plates but that's just common or garden corruption - the Premier (sort of the Governor equivalent) owns a printing company. No prizes for who won the tender to print all of the millions of license plates in the province...}

[Sebastian Cobb]

I think the most compelling argument against not having front-facing plates (possibly a benefit) is it makes capturing a car's plate and proof of who was driving at the same time pretty difficult. Which obviously throws a spanner in the works of enforcement cameras etc.

[Ferris]

Enforcement cameras don't exist here (muh freedom) but you're absolutely right our laws would make them a nightmare. Never thought of that, I should do some more speeding.

[buzby]

do you have a link to anything that proves this?

The Wiki page says there were 7207 made, but if you go to the VX220 forums they have the official numbers. There is also a list of members chassis numbers, with the highest they have recorded as #7999

The original contract with Lotus was for 1000 VX220s and 2000 Speedsters per year on a 3 year contract (i.e. 9000 units in total over 3 years). Sales of the 2.2 NA model were disappointing with lots of cancelled orders (after 2 years of production only 900 VX220s had been registered in the UK), and there were hundreds of unsold cars sat in storage in warehouses around Banbury. GM then asked Lotus to slow down production so it would be over 5 years instead of 3, started heavily discounting the unsold stock and came up with the Turbo model and special editions to try and shift their remaining manufacturing commitment (I also suspect some of the unsold NA cars were rebuilt into Turbo models as well)

[touchingcloth]

@touchingcloth if your license plate is an "easy-peeler" you get them free here, I think. If not, you have to fork out for them. Fuck buying more than I'm legislatively required to.

"Easy-peeler" being like the UK plates, with a laminated backing behind perspex?

A lot of US ones seem to be physically embossed rather than printed, at least judging by the souvenir I 4M 5H17 ones you see. I guess those are the sorts of things you're talking about - bare minimum compliance is to have a printed thing, but some sorts of idiots and cunts splash out for a special one and the privilege of displaying their shame in relief.

[Ferris]

"Easy-peeler" being like the UK plates, with a laminated backing behind perspex?

A lot of US ones seem to be physically embossed rather than printed, at least judging by the souvenir I 4M 5H17 ones you see. I guess those are the sorts of things you're talking about - bare minimum compliance is to have a printed thing, but some sorts of idiots and cunts splash out for a special one and the privilege of displaying their shame in relief.

No, I was just making a shit joke that if they get all peel-y and shit (ie damaged), you get them free, and suggesting that such bollocks license plates could be referred to as "easy peelers" because of how easily they peel. They're physically embossed, and some kind of paint is applied to the raised digits.

Spoiler alert

Ours even has an embossed fish on it, because my son picked them out and he liked the fish one the best which is fair enough really.

[close]

[buzby]

"Easy-peeler" being like the UK plates, with a laminated backing behind perspex?

A lot of US ones seem to be physically embossed rather than printed, at least judging by the souvenir I 4M 5H17 ones you see. I guess those are the sorts of things you're talking about - bare minimum compliance is to have a printed thing, but some sorts of idiots and cunts splash out for a special one and the privilege of displaying their shame in relief.

No, I was just making a shit joke that if they get all peel-y and shit (ie damaged), you get them free, and suggesting that such bollocks license plates could be referred to as "easy peelers" because of how easily they peel. They're physically embossed, and some kind of paint is applied to the raised digits.

Here's an example of a peeling/delaminated plate, a consequence of the harsh winters:

The plates are made from aluminium with a layer of 'reflectolite' adhesive film applied on the front, and when they are embossed the raised surface of the lettering is printed on. Aluminium that is exposed to a salty environment will quickly corrode, so if saltwater from treated roads in winter seeps into the interface between the reflective film and the metal plate, the corrosion will begin to blow the film off the surface, which takes the lettering with it.

If it happens before the plate is 5 years old it will be replaced for free, anything after that and it's $59, and you risk a $230 fine for having defective plates on show.

It seems it's become more of an issue as they have stopped issuing the annual insurance stickers that used to have to be stuck onto the plate, so they aren't getting checked as often. Also, in B.C. the police have started unsing ANPR systems so they need the plates to be legible to the cameras.

[touchingcloth]

Also, in B.C. the police have started unsing ANPR systems so they need the plates to be legible to the cameras.

I'm surprised that front plates aren't mandatory across the US for this reason alone, given how the police aren't shy of surveillance or spending money on technology to help them with it. Incongruous in a country where the police use Palantir and that thing that has a network of microphones to help triangulate the location of backfiring cars active shooters.

Ours even has an embossed fish on it, because my son picked them out and he liked the fish one the best which is fair enough really.

It isn't. I'm sure it comes as no surprise to him to learn that the apple has fallen at the very base of the tree, in all possible senses.

[DelurkedToHelp]

Has anyone read or heard anything about whether the latest ad boycott (or rather suspensions) of Twitter is actually really hurting it?

I ask because a) there's been multiple times over the past year where people have claimed the end of Twitter is nigh and it didn't appear to come close to happening and b) Musk appears to be really sucking up to Netanyahu and the Israelis when usually he's more flippant towards his critics. His behaviour this time feels different, and I'm wondering whether it's because, more so than the previous occasions, Twitter is noticing a significant financial impact.

[Alberon]

Twitter's finances were already in the toilet before this. These companies steering clear will just make it worse.

Of course, withdrawing advertising probably won't hurt their sales.

I don't think Musk will be chucking much more of his own money at the company, but I doubt it'll go bankrupt soon.

[Zero Gravitas]

US for this reason alone, given how the police aren't shy of surveillance or spending money on technology

For visible number plates and speed cameras their mandatory nature and installation isn't a decision that's within the remit of the police, it's their relatively well empowered local government, with the kind of membership that gets a speeding ticket and then passes a motion to ban speed cameras.

And then fall back on dearly held legalo-moral gibberish like "the right to face one's accuser" or contending photos are "hearsay".

Also they're not as compatible with the legal system in America as they depend on "service of process" where someone disguises themselves as a pizza delivery boy and confirms your name before telling you "you got served!" not quite as easy as just popping it in the post and making you swear in front of the kids at breakfast.

Sort of forces them down the road of hyped-up-yet-bored cops with twitchy trigger fingers having to make up the volume.

[touchingcloth]

Has anyone read or heard anything about whether the latest ad boycott (or rather suspensions) of Twitter is actually really hurting it?

I ask because a) there's been multiple times over the past year where people have claimed the end of Twitter is nigh and it didn't appear to come close to happening and b) Musk appears to be really sucking up to Netanyahu and the Israelis when usually he's more flippant towards his critics. His behaviour this time feels different, and I'm wondering whether it's because, more so than the previous occasions, Twitter is noticing a significant financial impact.

Lots of sources talk about how ad revenue is the vast bulk of Twitter's income, e.g. - https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/120114/how-does-twitter-twtr-make-money.asp

That and other sources talk about how their overall revenue went down in 2022, and even more in 2023 - https://www.statista.com/statistics/1344362/twitter-net-ad-revenue-growth-worldwide/

If their revenue really is largely from ads and overall revenue really has declined by that much, then ads are likely to be in some way responsible.

I haven't seen any sources that link specific advertisers to specific amounts of that decline, and whether or not it "hurts" them is a tricky one since it's owned by Elon and he has deep pockets.

[Jerrykeshton]

Think that's the first I'veen a front 3/4 view. Worse than I imagined

RoboCop's head

[Blumf]

RoboCop's head

The 6000 SUX: Big is back, because big is better. An American tradition.

[Urinal Cake]

Lots of sources talk about how ad revenue is the vast bulk of Twitter's income, e.g. - https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/120114/how-does-twitter-twtr-make-money.asp

That and other sources talk about how their overall revenue went down in 2022, and even more in 2023 - https://www.statista.com/statistics/1344362/twitter-net-ad-revenue-growth-worldwide/

If their revenue really is largely from ads and overall revenue really has declined by that much, then ads are likely to be in some way responsible.

I haven't seen any sources that link specific advertisers to specific amounts of that decline, and whether or not it "hurts" them is a tricky one since it's owned by Elon and he has deep pockets.

Elon from that NYT interview seems to think that if Twitter fails the people will rise up since Twitter is so important to them. I guess his rationale is advertisers don't want to get blame for killing Twitter or something rather than him being in charge of the thing, obviously.

[Blue Jam]

Another threat of a thermonuclear lawsuit incoming:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67591311

[Alberon]

It does fit with Musk's known operating method - push push push until something breaks then push some more. It's like SpaceX's abysmal safety record.

As for Twitter I think Musk thinks it's far more used than it actually is.