"dark thoughts"

[Kankurette]

It's something I did. Or rather, didn't do. I was on my way home when a woman holding a ratty Costa cup came up to me and asked me for money. She needed £15 for somewhere to stay. I told her I didn't carry cash and turned my purse inside out and scrabbled around in my bag to prove I was telling the truth. She kept going on at me, asked me to get money out and go to the pound shop to get change. She was going 'please, please' and I said I couldn't and walked off and now I'm scared she's going to die because of me. Most CaBBers would have taken money out and given it to her.

I'm crap at dealing with beggars. I know I should hug them but I freeze and get panicky when strange people ask me for things. Part of it is because they've tried to rob me in the past, like ask me for the time when we're under a big clock. And I'm scared of inviting strange people into my house because I don't trust them. Even if it's to use my Wi-Fi. I can't read people, I can't trust anyone.

[bgmnts]

I did once genuinely get badgered into going to a cash machine to take out a fiver to give to a beggar for some big issue type thing and I did get annoyed for being annoyed that i'm such an easy mark.

But no, you didn't end this woman's life, you're fine.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I don't think there was much more you could have done really. £15 is a lot of money, it's not like she was asking for 50p or something. And I don't think you need to hug beggars or that they would want it.

Was she asking for £15 to get into a shelter? Surely they don't charge that much. I'm confused.

She's not going to die because of you. I'm sure other people will give her money and she might be able to find a cheaper night shelter. I don't have much money and I can't afford to give £15 to people who come up to me.

I wouldn't invite anyone I didn't know into my house either.

[Kankurette]

She said she needed somewhere to stay for the night cos she'd been out in the rain. The weather here is really bad.

There are quite a few beggars where I live. They know each other and they take turns sitting outside shops - you start recognising faces. One of them groped my tits as I was walking home.

[Fambo Number Mive]

According to Shelter, you don't have to pay to stay in most night shelters. Hostels you do need to pay for but you can get housing benefit: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/get_a_place_to_stay_if_youre_homeless_and_on_the_streets

There's also Streetlink: https://www.streetlink.org.uk/

There's only so much anyone can do, I feel horrible for saying this but if I gave money to everyone who asked for it I'd have none for essentials like food.

[TrenterPercenter]

It's something I did. Or rather, didn't do. I was on my way home when a woman holding a ratty Costa cup came up to me and asked me for money. She needed £15 for somewhere to stay. I told her I didn't carry cash and turned my purse inside out and scrabbled around in my bag to prove I was telling the truth. She kept going on at me, asked me to get money out and go to the pound shop to get change. She was going 'please, please' and I said I couldn't and walked off and now I'm scared she's going to die because of me. Most CaBBers would have taken money out and given it to her.

Hmmm hard to tell without being there but this sounds quite pushy - I'm not someone that thinks giving money to homeless people is bad, I give regularly but I do make decisions based on what the situation is, if someone is being pushy like this and giving me amounts and reasons it always makes me suspicious.  There were some genuine fraudsters operating in Bham for a while; a guy used to stop you with petrol can saying his wife is in labour and he needed petrol, another guy that would dress up in work attire or engineers outfit and say he had been robbed and need money to get home.  I had guy last summer who said he was living in tent and could I buy him some food, I was like come on then lets get you a few bits, as soon as we going into the supermarket he was like "actually can you buy me some fags instead" hmmmmmm (I did anyway).

It's messed up because most people are genuine but are addicts and unwell (hence why they are on the street), so can come across quite erratic, I like to think the money that i've given isn't going into veins or on booze but of course most of it is.  Reminds me I was getting some petrol a few months back and this old homeless man was sat there and asked if I would buy him a drink, I guess he didn't mean a pepsi so a got him big ol bottle of beer and  in return he gave me a love poem that he had written, told me to give it to my other half and tell them that I wrote it.  Poem was pretty good too if I remember correctly.

[KaraokeDragon]

You're grand Kankurette, don't worry about it, seriously . It's good to help people out as much as we can but the anxiety that comes with these situations is absolutely a real thing and I'd say often just as incapacitating as anything else that might stand in the way of being able to help others as much as we'd like to.

I think you're worrying quite needlessly about fellow CaBbers being angry with you, I'm sure there's loads here who can relate to being anxious in these situations and that's before you even get into the thing about being robbed and sexually harrassed(!!) I get why being hypercritical of yourself can make you paranoid though.

I would say that, being realistic, gender comes into play here (amongst other things obvz). It definitely helps if you look way harder than you actually are; I'm skinhead for the usual CaB reasons and very rarely get any grief when I'm out and about, just homeless folk respectfully asking for spare change. I'm quite lucky in that regard.

TL;DR - Stop worrying because you're absolutely fine. Sweet to the beat. 👍

[imitationleather]

If they're an addict, they're going to get that money somehow. It's for the best that it is coming from you voluntarily.

[Rev+]

Yeah, Christ on a cracker Kankurette that's not something to feel bad about.  It something for Britain as a whole to feel bad about, but not you as a person.  Mentioning a specific amount is always a red flag though so as others have noted, you were probably dealing with an arsehole.

It's a bit of an aside but it came up, the prices for emergency accommodation if you're homeless is what the tabloids like to call a 'postcode lottery'.  An absolutely despicable 'charity' where I live run a night shelter that used to charge £7 a night, probably more like the £15 quoted these days.  Did workfare for them for a while and learned what I already suspected:  they're fucking swimming in cash and all the paid staff are very well paid, yet there are constant fundraisers and even a contactless point in the town centre where you can wave your card and give them a fiver.

I'll not name them, but they're grasping cunts who profit from misery, and are named vaguely like a character whose actor got sacked after having a big wank on a webcam.

[Zero Gravitas]

It's something I did. Or rather, didn't do. I was on my way home when a woman holding a ratty Costa cup came up to me and asked me for money. She needed £15 for somewhere to stay. I told her I didn't carry cash and turned my purse inside out and scrabbled around in my bag to prove I was telling the truth. She kept going on at me, asked me to get money out and go to the pound shop to get change. She was going 'please, please' and I said I couldn't and walked off and now I'm scared she's going to die because of me. Most CaBBers would have taken money out and given it to her.

I have actually done pretty much the same thing, well the "Most CaBBers" bit, I walked to the cash point 2 mins away and gave someone cash.

But at the same time I'm aware that it's not a matter of cash, it's a matter of a missing social framework to support them, I could place my daily withdrawal limit in their hands or I could lie to them and tell them I'm already at it, both are going to have near identical outcomes.

So as long as you're not skipping the bit where you kill them and hide them under the floorboards...

[Pink Gregory]

not that I want to bring the thread down some more but I've been finding ever since I came off the 'pram my thoughts are increasingly violent.  Towards myself and others.

Some of them are just Peter's Mad Thoughts like seeing an approaching cyclist and going 'go on, just stick your arm out' but other times it's messing up an omelette or making an easily resolvable mistake and debating cutting my fingers off and screaming.

Just a sudden welling of rage and self hatred with nowhere to go.

[Small Man Big Horse]

not that I want to bring the thread down some more but I've been finding ever since I came off the 'pram my thoughts are increasingly violent.  Towards myself and others.

Some of them are just Peter's Mad Thoughts like seeing an approaching cyclist and going 'go on, just stick your arm out' but other times it's messing up an omelette or making an easily resolvable mistake and debating cutting my fingers off and screaming.

Just a sudden welling of rage and self hatred with nowhere to go.

I'm admittedly very pro medication as it keeps me sane(ish), but was there a reason why you came off citalopram? I know it can cause shitty side effects, but maybe you could ask your doctor for another kind of anti-depressant if that is the case>

[Kankurette]

Was it weight gain? That was one of the reasons I came off it.

[Pink Gregory]

Was it weight gain? That was one of the reasons I came off it.

partly that, partly profuse sweating from the face in particular

On balance Ms Gregory says that I've improved since, these are usually isolated incidents.

[Vodkafone]

not that I want to bring the thread down some more but I've been finding ever since I came off the 'pram my thoughts are increasingly violent.  Towards myself and others.

Some of them are just Peter's Mad Thoughts like seeing an approaching cyclist and going 'go on, just stick your arm out' but other times it's messing up an omelette or making an easily resolvable mistake and debating cutting my fingers off and screaming.

Just a sudden welling of rage and self hatred with nowhere to go.

Sounds like me when my mood's gone too low. It's not always well understood that depression can manifest as feelings of anger and violence and it can feel confusing. I went back on the anti-depressants when I'd become intolerable to live with (again) and was doing things like going on Tor and trying to find out where the chair of the local Tory party lived in case I wanted to murder them. Not that that would have been a terrible thing to do, but it's a sign that things are not too good, right?

[chip]

Most CaBBers would have taken money out and given it to her.

No idea where you're getting that from! You didn't do anything wrong, don't worry.

I'm crap at dealing with beggars. I know I should hug them

Folks, it's worth clarifying - do NOT hug homeless people.

[flotemysost]

@Kankurette, it's clear from your posts here that you're a very compassionate and thoughtful person. As others have said, homelessness is the result of systemic failures to provide stability for people when various levels of security in life fall away; it would actually be possible to end homelessness in the UK (the charity Crisis have done extensive research into this) but obviously that's a pie in the sky given the way things have been going for ages. And lots of individuals experiencing homelessness are likely to suffer from very complex needs in various areas, which aren't going to be fixed by a few quid in a cup, sadly.

It's such an overwhelmingly vast, complicated and visible problem that it's really difficult not to feel a deeply emotive personal desire to help in whatever way you can - but you really shouldn't feel guilty on behalf of a broken system which isn't your fault. I have a mate who works for a women's refuge (and so is pretty au fait with the nature of how and why people can become homeless), and I've been out with her loads of times when someone's approached us for change (as is inevitable pretty much anywhere in London), and she normally says "I'm sorry, I don't have any" - as most people probably do. This is someone who helps homeless people all day; it doesn't mean you're uncaring, trust me.

Hope you're feeling a bit better today anyway, and same to the rest of you.

[Vodkafone]

I've worked with loads of homeless and vulnerable people, and the big majority of people begging are doing so to be able to buy drugs/booze because they're addicted. It's an understandable thing to do - if you're addicted, you're gonna try and get what you need - but funding the addiction isn't helping people out of the situation they're in. People also won't think any better of you if you hand over the cash - any thoughts of gratitude will quickly be replaced with thoughts about getting a fix and you'll be instantly forgotten.

[checkoutgirl]

Last night I was enjoying a Pepparami

Which is worse though, your ex believing you eating a Pepparami was killing yourself or just the fact you were eating a Pepparami.

And meaty treat sounds homoerotic.

[checkoutgirl]

It's not racism or paedophilia.

Even if they were, would that be so bad? I mean they're intrusive so by definition they're unwanted. If anything that would pretty much prove you are against racism and paedophilia which I assume would be a popular opinion to have and would be roundly approved.

[checkoutgirl]

Most CaBBers would have taken money out and given it to her.

No chance.

[checkoutgirl]

it would actually be possible to end homelessness in the UK

If homelessness was ended, people on minimum wage and the working poor would have nobody to look at to scare them into continuing to turn up at their shitty job.

[QDRPHNC]

@Kankurette Sounds more like an attempted mugging than a begging. But really, you have nothing to feel bad about. I know it sounds cold, but you don't owe anyone anything, you are free to just say no. Give money if you can spare it and if you want to, but don't let anyone bully you into it.

I was once helping a friend of mine move some of his paintings into a gallery in a very sketchy neighbourhood. A homeless woman started yelling at him about giving her money, and when he didn't give her any response at hell, she calmed down and asked nicely, and he told her he'd give her some money tomorrow. Why not now, she asked and he said, "Because you shouted at me."

[Easy_To_Assemble]

I'm crap at dealing with beggars. I know I should hug them but I freeze and get panicky when strange people ask me for things. Part of it is because they've tried to rob me in the past, like ask me for the time when we're under a big clock. And I'm scared of inviting strange people into my house because I don't trust them. Even if it's to use my Wi-Fi. I can't read people, I can't trust anyone.

Can relate to this a bit. I try to give as and when I can, but I'm not good at sussing people, often taking people at face value. It's obvious that homeless people require help, and aren't inherently dishonest because of their situation. But, I also find myself getting angry at the idea that I have "mug energy" which makes me seem like a soft touch. I can't stand the idea of being grifted, not because of what I might lose, but because I wish I was smarter.

I think deep down, most people realise they're only a few steps away from the street, which is - perversely - why they end up projecting their fear as anger on homeless people. Sometimes violently. Either that, or they've had personal experience of addicts etc. causing issues for their family. A lot of people are sick of grinding away at jobs that sap the life from them, only to end up still feeling precarious. So, they take it out on the people they fear they might become one day. It's absurd, but that's the only rationalisation I can find.

[RetroRobot]

I feel you GAFS, here if you'd like to talk. My brain is a right cunt. Not been suicidal lately, nor ever but definitely had the thoughts close to it? Idk if that makes sense but the "ah yes, I could jump in front of that bus right now" type thoughts but not planning anything.

[Terry Torpid]

Sometimes I overhear conversations in the pub (usually between blokes) and I find it really fascinating but also sad how obviously "surface" it is, and almost defensive - not in an aggressive way, but like they're constantly trying to prove something - not saying everyone wants to be having tearful heart-to-hearts every time you go out for a casual pint or anything, but it's just interesting how blatantly that resistance to sincerity, as you say, comes through. Was talking to a (straight, male) Aussie mate of mine recently who said that's literally the reason the moved to the UK, because at home men just don't talk about their feelings, at all, though often it's not much better here.

With women (or at least a certain type of middle-class straight women) I find often that insincerity and competitiveness comes through via this sense of, like... heteronormative one-upmanship, if that makes any sense at all. Honestly, the question "So what's new with you?" from casual acquaintances makes my heart sink because I know it's only ever geared towards stuff that's to do with moving forward in life in a very traditional sense - meeting a partner, getting engaged, getting a promotion, buying property, all that shite, none of which is on my radar right now and they probably couldn't give a fuck about, say, the fact I've met a new friend or learnt a new skill or been to see something cool recently.

This has really struck a chord with me. I don't meet up with friends very often, but when I do it's either tedious jokey banter, or serious talk about how old we're getting (mid 30s) and how everything should be on track by now, and the clock's ticking. Everyone else seem to have worked it out. Someone has a kid, someone got married, someone is getting serious with this new girl, someone is finishing their degree, someone is buying a house, someone is going up for that new big job. And I've got none of that. I live alone and go to my blue collar job and come home to be alone again.

It reminds me of the dad from Friday Night Dinner always asking his son "Any females?"

It feels like there's a dozen different personal goals that I'm supposed to have, and I haven't done any work towards any of them. And then I set myself all these other unattainable goals about being sustainable and ethical and the PLANET and the fucking DIET, but I just end up being the one weirdo who cycles to work in the pissing rain, and won't take milk in my tea because of the poor moo cows, and no I don't follow the gee gees mate, and I'm such a small drop in the ocean that it doesn't matter. I'm so awkwardly different from everyone else, to no real benefit. I've put too much focus on cutting back the stuff I've arbitrarily decided I'm not supposed to do, that I've completely neglected the proactive stuff that matters. My whole life is just avoidance, and I don't even avoid the bad stuff successfully. I'm still scoffing biscuits and crisps and I fell off the wagon once a few weeks ago (breaking a five year streak), and I just never feel like I'm actually on the right track about anything. I'll buy oat milk but then crack and get an icecream as well.

Sometimes I feel like such a useless fat ugly unfriendly awkward cunt wasting my time with bullshit that I can never accomplish. I'm in that strange contradictory place of feeling very lonely, but also wanting to be on my own. I want to be good with people, but I also can't stand to be around them for too long. I wouldn't want to be friends with me, but I'm stuck with me.

Argh!

Anyway, I wouldn't say I'm having dark thoughts. Just slightly grey ones. Overcast thoughts.

If I have one piece of encouragement for anyone having a worse time, I've previously been at the very lowest of the low points, and it really does get better. There'll probably be a few more dips afterwards, but overall you'll see a massive improvement, even if it seems unimaginable.

[flotemysost]

It feels like there's a dozen different personal goals that I'm supposed to have, and I haven't done any work towards any of them. And then I set myself all these other unattainable goals about being sustainable and ethical and the PLANET and the fucking DIET, but I just end up being the one weirdo who cycles to work in the pissing rain, and won't take milk in my tea because of the poor moo cows, and no I don't follow the gee gees mate, and I'm such a small drop in the ocean that it doesn't matter. I'm so awkwardly different from everyone else, to no real benefit. I've put too much focus on cutting back the stuff I've arbitrarily decided I'm not supposed to do, that I've completely neglected the proactive stuff that matters. My whole life is just avoidance, and I don't even avoid the bad stuff successfully. I'm still scoffing biscuits and crisps and I fell off the wagon once a few weeks ago (breaking a five year streak), and I just never feel like I'm actually on the right track about anything. I'll buy oat milk but then crack and get an icecream as well.

Sometimes I feel like such a useless fat ugly unfriendly awkward cunt wasting my time with bullshit that I can never accomplish. I'm in that strange contradictory place of feeling very lonely, but also wanting to be on my own. I want to be good with people, but I also can't stand to be around them for too long. I wouldn't want to be friends with me, but I'm stuck with me.

Argh!

Anyway, I wouldn't say I'm having dark thoughts. Just slightly grey ones. Overcast thoughts.

Sounds like you're being really hard on yourself there, Terry. Everyone differs in the levels of social interaction that they thrive on, but there's definitely also something to be said for the type of interaction that you find valuable.

This is something I've noticed people mentioning quite a few times on CaB in various different threads - frustration at the fairly shallow passing-the-time type of exchanges that inevitably make up a lot of many people's interactions in any given day or week, and yearning for something a bit more meaningful and rewarding. And if you don't feel like you necessarily have much worthwhile to contribute to those kinda conversations then it's even more stressful, I can absolutely relate to the panic of questioning your value in a group because you can't necessarily provide the kind of "updates" they seem to expect.

Needing time alone to recharge is definitely nothing to be ashamed of though, we're all different and though I'd say I tend towards the "quiet extrovert" side, I do sometimes wonder how much of that is neediness and a kind of frantic compulsion to be busy and around people, rather than a healthy balance.

But yeah, it sounds like you're being overly critical of yourself - with the diet stuff, I can't think of any self-proclaimed vegan I know (and I know quite a few) who hasn't had a lapse in their lifestyle now and then. I'm sure that no one else is thinking anywhere near such negative stuff about you as you are about yourself, although I know it can be really hard to believe that sometimes.

[turnstyle]

A while back all the trains in my town were cancelled one morning, because there was a bloke sat on the railway bridge over the track, threatening to jump.

Seems like he was just on his daily commute and snapped.

People were bitching about the delays,  and all I could think was 'Mate, I totally get it'.

[Terry Torpid]

This is something I've noticed people mentioning quite a few times on CaB in various different threads - frustration at the fairly shallow passing-the-time type of exchanges that inevitably make up a lot of many people's interactions in any given day or week, and yearning for something a bit more meaningful and rewarding.

Yeah, there's only so much you can say about the weather or the football or whatever, but they go on and on about it anyway. There's only about five types of weather anyway (cold, hot, windy, rainy, mild), and only three football results (win, lose, draw), so surely they've cracked all the combinations by now, and we can just drop it, but no. It never ends.

But yeah, it sounds like you're being overly critical of yourself - with the diet stuff, I can't think of any self-proclaimed vegan I know (and I know quite a few) who hasn't had a lapse in their lifestyle now and then. I'm sure that no one else is thinking anywhere near such negative stuff about you as you are about yourself, although I know it can be really hard to believe that sometimes.

Thanks.

[Jerrykeshton]

Struggling a bit at the moment with all the bullshit. Lost my Father in Law a few weeks ago, which brought back memories of losing my dad 2 years ago too.

In theory, I should be rolling in cash by this stage in my life (44, working in a relatively well paid job, married, no kids) but I look at this months credit card bill and the piss takingly expensive flight back from Athens that I had to take at short notice and really wonder what the point is. I know I'm in a nice position that I can afford to get to an overseas funeral, but I feel like it's one step forward followed by two back all the time.

I got back to the UK and got in my car at Birmingham and turned on the radio and the first thing I heard was that McDonalds ad about 20% of kids not having a book in the house. 
I'm sorry, I know people are close to the breadline, but books in charity shops cost pennies. I'm fucked off at what type of country I'm living in where reading is almost considered a middle class past time. We can blame a lot on the Conservatives, but this is an act of self destruction.
I have one remaining close relative (my mom) and once she's no longer around I'm moving to my wife's country. Away from the shitty weather and a growing number of twats. (I'm sure they have different twats)

Anyway, rant over. Thanks for listening fellow CaBbers. I'm off to take 20mg of Cit