Corbyn 24: OUR party, people!

[TrenterPercenter]

Have I mentioned that I kindof know her, and know a lot of people that know her.  She was very good friends at the time (not sure now tbh) with an ex of mine and I went to school with her fella.

I think whilst I would say, that from what I've seen of her in this recent mold she is definitely out for herself but I don't think she is quite the Machiavellian intellect that seems to get ascribed to her.  She is (as she proudly proclaims) what she is......which is someone that is easily flattered by media interest and relies a bit too much on the "in your face" approach to politics in the absence of any real policy position (I mean if the criticism of JC is he is a campaigner not a leader well what the hell is Phillips).

I think she is bit more legit then people think, its just that legit is actually not very good but the idea that she would vote No Deal over helping Corbyn is a bit far fetched.  She isn't a Tory, I'd say rather she is a vaiguist gobby left-winger.

[Buelligan]

I wonder what she's doing now.  A manicure perhaps.  Or popping out for a cheeky icecream. 

If she knows of a job where you get very well paid, fullsome expenses, a fat pension and are expected to work less than one day in two* following the Cunt Johnson around, ringing a bell and shouting insults, perhaps she'd let some of us untermensch have the details.  I'm up for it.  TBH, I'd do the gig for free if I got fed.


_Sell-out

[BlodwynPig]

I wonder what she's doing now.  A manicure perhaps.  Or popping out for a cheeky icecream. 

If she knows of a job where you get very well paid, fullsome expenses, a fat pension and are expected to work less than one day in two* following the Cunt Johnson around, ringing a bell and shouting insults, perhaps she'd let some of us untermensch have the details.  I'm up for it.  TBH, I'd do the gig for free if I got fed.


_Sell-out

Give it a few years and those heels will be leopard print

[Sebastian Cobb]

If she wanted to really stick it to Boris she could start working with the opposition party she's a member of. Might damage the brand tho.

[holyzombiejesus]

I think she is bit more legit then people think, its just that legit is actually not very good but the idea that she would vote No Deal over helping Corbyn is a bit far fetched.  She isn't a Tory, I'd say rather she is a vaiguist gobby left-winger.

I think she recently stated that she wouldn't vote against Johnson in a vonc.

[Durance Vile]

[Kelvin]

I think she is bit more legit then people think, its just that legit is actually not very good but the idea that she would vote No Deal over helping Corbyn is a bit far fetched.  She isn't a Tory, I'd say rather she is a vaiguist gobby left-winger.

Philips has been one of the most vocal and disingenuous Corbyn critics since the beginning. See her interview with Owen Jones where she said she would "stab him in the front" if he couldn't win an election (in the same interview as she said he couldn't win an election), or her march against antisemitism in the party, or her endless public attempts to undermine him at every turn. I don't know her voting record, but I would be staggered to learn she had a genuine interest in left wing ideas, beyond the identify politics many centrists adopt to mask their support for the status quo and wider inequality. On a list of politicians that need deselecting from the Labour Party, she would be near the top.   

[Paul Calf]

You might be surprised:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25364/jess_phillips/birmingham%2C_yardley/votes

[Blumf]

Also:

https://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?id=uk.org.publicwhip/member/41585

...
0%    Iraq Investigation - Necessary
0%    Make High Earners Pay Market Rent for Council Home
50%    Measures to reduce tax avoidance. ...
...
17%    Minumum Wage
...
63%    Trident replacement - In favour
...

Those seem to be the worst on a quick scan.

[Sebastian Cobb]

0%    Make High Earners Pay Market Rent for Council Home

I don't think there's anything wrong with that personally. The point of council houses are that they're basically yours until you don't need it. The problem is there are too few of them, artificially making them worse for people who happen to earn an alright wage won't fix much (or work because you will still have a better situation regarding rights, how long you can stay and what you can do while you're there) renting off the council. Also, if they're that 'high' an earner, why haven't they attempted to buy the property?

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

artificially making them worse for people who happen to earn an alright wage won't fix much

You shouldn't really be in a council house if you're earning over 60 grand a year imo.  You should be renting in the private sector and freeing up space for someone who can't afford private rent.

[Kelvin]

You might be surprised:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25364/jess_phillips/birmingham%2C_yardley/votes

Yeah, that is better that I expected overall. Which makes it even more bizarre that she'd express such public contempt for Corbyn and spread so much disunity.

[Sebastian Cobb]

You shouldn't really be in a council house if you're earning over 60 grand a year imo.  You should be renting in the private sector and freeing up space for someone who can't afford private rent.

Kicking people out for earning an arbitrary figure is sticking a plaster over a problem that shouldn't exist.

[Twed]

Yeah, provide for all. There doesn't need to be any scarcity in terms of personal economics, and conditions on the rich just enable conditions on the poor.

Also, don't assume that people in a high-earning bracket aren't supporting other people. I've paid two rents for a considerable amount of time, and if I was on 60K it would be a huge struggle.

[Buelligan]

I don't think someone earning a high salary should be subsidised at public expense when there are huge numbers homeless.  I agree that affordable housing should be there for all but it's not.  Until it is, let the truly desperate have first dibs.  That seems obvious.

Meanwhile, I hope Jo Swinson fucks off somewhere like the moon very soon.  What is it with these so-called democrats that appeals so much these days about short-circuiting democracy?  Who elected Jo-Fucking-Swinson as kingmaker*?  The fucking arrogance.

Give the people an election and leave it to them.  Fuck's sake.


_{*100,000 members of the Liberal Democratic Party, not all of them (48,000).  Fucking neck.  It makes The Cunt Johnson look like the People's Man.}

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Guys seen the tweet going around about the Guardian's quick crossword? Clue is 'What Uxbridge and South Ruislip constituency is for Boris, 4,4'

Answer was 'safe seat'

Weird.

[pigamus]

Yeah, that is better that I expected overall. Which makes it even more bizarre that she'd express such public contempt for Corbyn and spread so much disunity.

This is the thing. I've never totally understood why she hates him so much. Have they really got nothing in common?

[Barry Admin]

Isn't she just another safety-in-number Swinson type, who knows she'll get an easier ride from the media and such if she picks on the right people?

[Kelvin]

Isn't she just another safety-in-number Swinson type, who knows she'll get an easier ride from the media and such if she picks on the right people?

Yes, she's an ego who picked what she believes is the winning side and now has to move heaven and earth to prove she was right.   

[Kelvin]

I've said it before, but so many of these MP's have destroyed their own chances at the leadership by being such disingenuous cunts about Corbyn. A few years ago, Tom Watson was fairly popular with the left following the Levinson stuff, and I'd guess he had a very real chance of getting the leadership one day. Now the left despise him.

Same with a number of other Labour MP's who were generally seen as decent sorts, reliable, even if you didn't agree with them about everything. Now they're hated by a huge section of the membership. At least people like Andy Burnham had the good sense to keep their heads down after Corbyn came to power. Putting aside that it was the right thing to do, it was also the pragmatic thing for some of them to do.   

[holyzombiejesus]

It's an odd one because a large part of me believes that Jess Phillips is genuinely caring and compassionate about the abuse that women suffer. If I was a woman who had been beaten by a man and found myself living in one of the homes that she managed in Birmingham, I imagine she'd have been a decent, caring, empathic and proactive worker. I just don't understand why she won't back a leadership that will do more for women in dire circumstances than any other party leader in a long long time. It's like when other Labour MPs criticise tories using the opening of food banks as photo opportunities but then badmouth Corbyn when he is the only party leader I have ever heard come out against austerity. His first speech upon winning the leadership was the first time I had ever heard a Labour leader say that 'it doesn't have to be like this' and he would undoubtedly be the person who would strive to end the need for charity to feed and clothe children, yet the gimps keep sniping. I'd love to see a poll that asked 'food banks or Corbyn?' as PM as I bet a high proportion of the current Liberal and Labour MPs would go for the former.

[pigamus]

^ Great post, that's basically exactly how I feel. Surely Jess Phillips must know that a Corbyn government would be a million times better for people in Yardley than the dogshit sandwich we've got now?

[pancreas]

Not that all roads lead to Israel, but she is a member of Labour Friends of Israel.

[Buelligan]

And whilst we're speaking of that, Jo Swinson should listen to her members.

[Johnny Yesno]

And whilst we're speaking of that, Jo Swinson should listen to her members.

Blimey. That passed by quietly. Thanks for the link.

[honeychile]

I don't think someone earning a high salary should be subsidised at public expense when there are huge numbers homeless.  I agree that affordable housing should be there for all but it's not.  Until it is, let the truly desperate have first dibs.  That seems obvious.

The whole point of the "make high earners in council homes pay market rent" policy is to justify not providing affordable housing for all while appearing to be doing "something". It's not some interim measure while we get on with building more homes, it's there to enable engineered scarcity and facilitate the ongoing daylight robbery of "market rates".

Putting that aside, high-earners in council homes aren't being subsidised at public expense (unless you want to go down the right-wing rabbit-hole of opportunity costs of having social housing full stop). They won't be in receipt of housing benefit so will be paying the full council rate which recoups the cost of the home over something like 30 years. If you want to tax high earners more i'm all for it, but it should be on income and wealth. We should be promoting the idea of council homes being comprehensive and aspirational, not acceding to troy attacks on it. It's pure milibandism.

[jamiefairlie]

I don't think someone earning a high salary should be subsidised at public expense when there are huge numbers homeless.  I agree that affordable housing should be there for all but it's not.  Until it is, let the truly desperate have first dibs.  That seems obvious.

Meanwhile, I hope Jo Swinson fucks off somewhere like the moon very soon.  What is it with these so-called democrats that appeals so much these days about short-circuiting democracy?  Who elected Jo-Fucking-Swinson as kingmaker*?  The fucking arrogance.

Give the people an election and leave it to them.  Fuck's sake.


_{*100,000 members of the Liberal Democratic Party, not all of them (48,000).  Fucking neck.  It makes The Cunt Johnson look like the People's Man.}

It's the classic universal provision vs means tested argument. The problem is means testing always appears a more reasonable and efficient use of scarce resources but the reality is that the 'testing' part always ends up being exceptionally expensive and costs more than any abuse of the system would. It's actual use is to harass and make things so difficult that it puts people off claiming the right in the first place. Make it universal and create an adequate supply and accept that some people will cheat the system, it still works out cheaper and better overall. Ever wondered why supermarkets move to self-checkout when the ability to cheat is much higher? They've done the maths and realize it's cheaper for them even with the increased loss at the checkout.

Jo Swinson is a nightmare leading a nightmare party. Really horrible people.

[ZoyzaSorris]

Exactly. The whole welfare state should be as universal as possible. Any means testing reduces it to us and them mentality.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I see it the same as arguments to try and chip away at the NHS by denying services to people who don't take care of themselves - smokers, alkies, the obese etc, not only is it the thin end of the wedge to set up a quasi-health-insurance type deal where any risky behaviours are given an associated factor, or 'cost', it goes against the spirit of the system in the first place, in that it was devised to be indiscriminate and free at the point of delivery.

Resources, be they council homes or cash in the NHS are scarce only by design; council houses aren't some immutable resource, thatcher proved that when she fucked them all off to the public, build more of them.

Also, I dunno if paying full council rate is 'subsidising' any more than paying an inflated private rent (that has no bearing on how much it cost to build the house, and unless it was purchased recently, only a flimsy bearing on the owner's mortgage) is 'subsidising' some land baron's pension.

[Zetetic]

You don't need to look for hypotheticals when discussing this nonsense in the NHS in England - you have prescription charges.

ZoyzaSorris's point is the essential one - that it divides the population into those who pay for the welfare state, and those who benefit from it. (At least in people's perception, which the issue here. Life course makes this less true in practice.)