BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Keesman Weisse  - ***** - Really top notch hefeweizen that on every level stands up with the best. Unsurprising as it's one of the best Bamberg breweries.

Schremser Zwickl - **** - Austrian but really close to the Bavarian tradition. Thick yet light, gentle florally farmyardy aroma and flavours on the tongue, but a really satisfying finish. Really on par with the Hier Gibt Bier range.

Uerige Sticke - **** - I remember this from last time. The bottle is shaped like a German hand grenade from WWII. It's Altbier but hoppier, maltier and boozier. Which is both good and bad, as in I can slaughter 3 litres of Alt-bier on an afternoon, whereas this is a slower more careful prospect. Must be recognised that Sticke, and tbf Altbier is one of those totally ignored and underexploited beer styles in the craft scene that is so totally priapically focused on hop varietals that these barely get a look in. However, I do have the North Brew Co vs Donzoko Dark Lager to review, so hold on t'yer hats.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

http://washingtonbeerblog.com/a-new-style-of-ipa-wayfinder-and-ecliptic-introduce-cold-ipa/

9-12 months before this hits the UK.

Edit- actually there's a fair chance this doesn't even takeoff. As the first comment says, IPL is a description kinda covering this.

Also got to laugh at 'Cold'. IPA is already to blame for how fucking cold ales have become.

[Ferris]

Yeah dry hop a lager and call it a day lads.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://germandrinks.co.uk/

A new discovery. Don't get too excited as these guys only stock beer from one brewery and you can only buy these in packs of 20 or 24.

However, Rothaus are a very in brand in craft beer circles, and they are the brewery's official UK importer, meaning that even with shipping you're looking at 24 x 330ml costing £50.25. Pretty good, especially post-Brexit.

Tannenzapfle is all round in London and Berlin, along with many craft beer bars and bottle shops. I went for the Kellerbier because of course I did.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

^ that arrived this morning. Big red box with ROTHAUS in gothic. Looking forward to a try later.

[Ferris]

Not had a drink for a week (well... a whisky soda last night) and have to finish a paper today on open federalism as it relates to the Harper administration and the SCC's interpretation of.... zzzzzzzzzz.

Once that's done, I will be on the beer. Mad excited. Brewery down the road is doing a sabro IPA (no me either) so will likely get a few tins and watch the Leafs hoop the Sens. Oh just checked that's tomorrow ok I'll just sit in the basement then.

Beers beers beers lads lads lads. Worthless post. Sorry.

[JaDanketies]

It's been my birthday period so I've totally fallen off the wagon with wilful abandon. But it's over now so I'm climbing back on. It'll be interesting to see what a few days of boozing and junk food has done to the scales. Really starting to feel like there's no 'moderation' for me. And I know 'yo-yo dieting' is bad for you.

[Ferris]

The trick I've found for moderation is just keeping fuck all in the gaff. If there's whisky right there then ooh a nice whisky that's a good idea *glug*. If I wanted a whisky and my option was all the admin of going to the liquor store (find boots, check weather, who's watching the sprog, god it looks dark and cold and miserable outside) I just don't bother. Fizzy water and a sit down please, Carol.

I don't drink to excess (any more...) because it triggers my anxiety around feeling out of control, but last night I had a whisky-soda just because we had it in the house. The fact I still have 1/2 a bottle of Balvenie leftover from Christmas is (for me) miraculous.

I don't know how people manage 40+ bottles of beer orders. It's not even temptation, it's just laziness to stop myself going "ooh one more will be ok" until they've all gone. If there's nothing in the house, booze doesn't really cross my mind.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Rothaus Schwarzwald Zapfle 5.1% Kellerbier - *** and a half
Badische Staatsbrauerei Rothaus, Rothaus im Schwarzwald

Straight from Wiki - Badische Staatsbrauerei Rothaus is a brewery owned by the German state of Baden-Württemberg. Rothaus, at the northern edge of the village of Grafenhausen in the southern Black Forest, is one of Germany's most successful and profitable regional breweries.

Now my bit - You'll probably have seen 1 or 2 of these guys beers around, especially in capital cities and craft bars where they have made quite a spin with their hoppy lager Tannenzapfle, which has a big beer hipster caché.

I didn't bother with that one because I've already had it (Quick review: It's fine, perfectly ok and nothing more) so went for their unfiltered kellerbier style one.

While Kellerbier is strongest in Franconia you tend to find it all over barring the North which is Pilsner country. This one has a lemony yellow colour. It's brewed with Tettnang and Hallertau hops which give you both floral and citric aromas. There's a relatively full flavour which is not too far removed from Witbier, actually, a comparison I didn't make even with the most zesty zwickls during the Franconian odyssey. This is backed up by the foam which has those very fine bubbles you associate with Belgian beer.

Overall very fresh, but a tiny bit gloopy and overly citric. Either lacking in the execution or ingredients, the complexity and rich indulgence isn't there. It's more of a steady drinker. You have to give it a real chance before those lovely meadowy kellerbier backnotes can be distinguished, but they are there. A thirst-quencher, damn sight better than most, but maybe inappropriate for a February day in the UK (that said, this time last year I was drinking kellerbier in Limburg an der Lahn...)

[Jerzy Bondov]

Ferris, I keep my beer in the garage and generally can't be bothered to get the key, go out the door, go round the corner, unlock and open the door, go in, turn on the light, find beer, turn off light, you get the rest. Fuck that. It does mean that if I go out there for another reason like taking out the bin or looking through boxes of old stuff or having a cry, I'm tempted to open one there and then. But that doesn't often happen.

[Ferris]

Why not simply set up a folding chair in the garage and get plastered on the sly?

[TrenterPercenter]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sharps-Brewery-Doom-Amber-Mini/dp/B07BV4V68V/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=doom+bar&qid=1613604213&sr=8-8


Saw this; seems pretty great value (20 pints for £30) and a decent beer too - it says it will be delivered in March but mine is being delivered tomorrow.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It seems pointless to go in hard here. At the same time, if it isn't going to be said now, then when? So here goes.

I like a bitter as much as anyone and everyone's got their poison, but Doom Bar has become the epitome of absolute shite, the basement level Wetherspoons alky/CAMRA-voucher wielding option and every accommodation has been made to ensuring the commercial viability of that choice, AKA, reducing the quality to meet the stack-em-high sell-em-cheap margins. The only reason it isn't yet fully on the scale of John Smith's, Tetley's etc in the minds of the public is because of its association with a previously credible brewery. Some people still believe it is a 'Real Ale'. I mean, they began selling a 'creamflow' ice cold keg version of Doom Bar. Nothing signals the death of a brew more than that. It will be good value of course, because of the industrial scale which it's shitted out by its parent owners.

Practically speaking, if you are drinking alone at home it also seems pointless to buy a keg of ale, where the short shelf life deteriorates from the moment the keg is opened, meaning you are tied to consuming a large quantity of ever decreasing beer to a strict time period. There is also a risk depending on experience that a lot of the beer in the keg goes down the drain due to not letting the beer settling/tapping it inadequately. Of course there's the slight novelty but I'm not sure to what extent that compensates.

My post might written off as snobbery, and I appreciate some people can't afford or don't want to invest their hard earned money in fancy beers, but I think you can get better beers in bottles for much cheaper than this in the supermarket and, if you were hellbent on getting a keg in for whatever mad reason, there are better beers in keg for around the same price.

Frustratingly, Amazon is poor for alcohol in terms of selection and value in my opinion.

[phes]

Tis true. Doom Bar is utter dregs tray piss.

Go into any Marks' and you can buy 15-20 500ml bottles of glorious ale for £30. Landlord and Guinness Original £1.90, Various Saltaire and Ilkley for £1.75 to £2.50. Countless Ruby Red Ales, Brown Ales and Porters, lagers, Wheat beers for around a couple of quid. Why not get 15 delicious assorted pints of ale instead. Much of which has a higher ABV if you're concerned about getting banged for your buck

[TrenterPercenter]

These are all interesting points so good to hear.

Shoulders - I have lots of fancy beers and I buy locally from several craft beer places (and recently from trembling madness); I've never heard of or considered Doom Bar as basement level Wetherspoons alky/CAMRA-voucher wielding option, and this is good to know; and I guess I'm one of the public who thought it was still a credible brewery. I've not bought any for a long long time and I certainly wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't so cheap.  I'll see what it tastes like; I've enjoyed it when I have had it.

Yes you are a massive snob; this is also good to know (you do not become a snob because you recognise it btw) and fine; being a snob is quite useful to being a person of discriminating taste.

Disagree on the kegs; I had something much more salubrious in keg not long ago and they are much improved on the past virtually nothing was left inside.  Drinking them isn't a problem even on lockdown; me and my partner on occasion go to our "virtual local" which will be a night affair so 5 pints each isn't really a big deal; but even then it is fine the next day (I wouldn't give it any longer than this).  My plan with these were to stow them away use them in the garden if and when some lockdown relief for the outdoors comes soon enough - you know drink them with friends.

Phes & Shoulders;

I don't know where you live but I've got a good selection of major and specialist stockist locally to me and you are not getting beers as cheap; I'd love to come to your Marks Phes as our local one most beers are £4 (think the own brand 330ml cans are £3.50) but I enjoyed the whimsical dance through the delicious ales that you could buy; you can get Landlord and Guinness for cheaper as Sainsbury's you are still looking around £2 mark so you are still looking at an extra tenner for less beer.

Buying a decent beer for £1.50 is not that easy (Sainsburys is your best bet here) but there is some debate about what is fair price for beer, quality vs quantity, and the impact of the hipster brew generation on being exclusionary to people that can't perhaps afford to spend as much money on what is essentially a luxury. 

Beer in effect, culturally, is becoming like wine with tiered drinkers due to price something that should be kicked back against on a social level and looks problematic, to me anyway, if that is just done buy just highlighting the proles are drinking piss; why don't they drink less and enjoy a nice Belgium Geuze[nb]coming to a Guardian comment section soon "I've finally admitted my addiction to boutique beers and it was the right thing to do"[/nb]

[dr beat]

Been really enjoying re-reading this thread.  I've realized quite a few of the beers I've enjoyed recently have featured here.  I live close to Cork & Cask in Edinburgh, and they deliver across the UK.  Not the cheapest compared to some of the services discussed here, but its free delivery over £50 and it might be an option if Brexit kicks in harder.

For tomorrow night's post-pedagogical relaxation I've got:

Couple of Aventinus
A Schneider Weiss No.1
Couple of Hacker Pschorr Munchner Gold (not tried that before)
Ayinger Celebrator complete with free goat
Tegernsee Max Joseph Jubilaums Export (another one new to me)
Tynt Meadow (another new one, but intrigued about it having read this thread)
Plus a few wild card ones in cans.

Anyone up for some Scottish beer chat? I've found Cromarty and Swannay have a solid range and they don't depart much from them which I think is a good sign.  Stewarts are nearby to us, they do one or two solid ones (Edinburgh Gold and Holyrood) but tend to stray into the novelty brews.  And there's Overtone, who's range seems to be entirely fruit/sweet/crazy strong novelty ones, which are a decidedly mixed bag.

[JaDanketies]

On a Facebook group based on the Real Ale Twats characters from Viz, Doom Bar is a running joke / meme as the worst alcohol in existence.

[Blue Jam]

I was aware of Doom Bar (or "D**m B*r") having a reputation as a mass-produced mediocre beer and a good beer gone bad. That said I had some Doom Bar Zero (D**m B*r Z*r*) the other week and it was one of the better low/no-alcohol beers I have tried. Would buy again.

Not buying much beer at the moment as I've got a fuckton of homebrew to get through, but I might order some from Stewart's Brewing as their taproom was one of the businesses that was claimed by the pandemic and it'd be nice to support them. Good little Scottish brewery, I wish they'd do their Coconut Porter more often, that's one of my favourite beers ever.

[Chedney Honks]

My philosophy these days is German, Belgian, Czech or fuck off. I got some decent local piss in bottles and keg recently, used to enjoy the stuff, standard lovely pint. Now it's ruined by Kellerbier and Zoigl and all the other shit Shoulders turned me onto, but so what? Means I never again waste any money on bottled aids. If it's not great stuff or a frivolous gamble then fuck off. I'm no putting it in me. You might think oh you just get used to it and so you enjoy less and your baseline becomes boring and normalised. No way. I actually drink less and every one is a fucking treat. Maybe in about ten years I'll be bored but by then I'll be back into wine or whisky or some other shite. I will never again have a beer that's not German, Belgian or Czech. Feels great.

[TrenterPercenter]

On a Facebook group based on the Real Ale Twats characters from Viz, Doom Bar is a running joke / meme as the worst alcohol in existence.

I am genuinely; grateful for all of this knowledge.  It also makes me feel that perhaps my drinking isn't so problematic not knowing all of this.

[TrenterPercenter]

My philosophy these days is German, Belgian, Czech or fuck off. I got some decent local piss in bottles and keg recently, used to enjoy the stuff, standard lovely pint. Now it's ruined by Kellerbier and Zoigl and all the other shit Shoulders turned me onto, but so what? Means I never again waste any money on bottled aids. If it's not great stuff or a frivolous gamble then fuck off. I'm no putting it in me. You might think oh you just get used to it and so you enjoy less and your baseline becomes boring and normalised. No way. I actually drink less and every one is a fucking treat. Maybe in about ten years I'll be bored but by then I'll be back into wine or whisky or some other shite. I will never again have a beer that's not German, Belgian or Czech. Feels great.

Sit down you big granite-noncing beer nationalist.

Fucksake; so basically when it arrives I'll just pour all this beer down the drain whilst punching myself in the face.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Since Brexit there are a LOT of complaints on beer groups about the duty and import issues shipping beer from Europe, but a persistent minority who post comments like 'who needs Belgian beers anyway we make our own English beer is the best beer in the world'.

Yeah, our richly diverse culture has never benefited from the trade between countries, we got to where we are by just staying at home.

Brexit just fucked the UK for availability of beer styles that aren't as easy to find, and are relatively unfashionable, and are among my faves. I deserve a cry.

[thelittlemango]

Of the modern style craft breweries I rate To Øl in Denmark very highly (they also have a lovely bar in Copenhagen called Brus), just went on their website to treat myself to a selection and they no longer ship to the UK because of Brexit. Bollocks.

Weeping with you, Shoulders.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

One thing I would say is that I had half a bottle of Bollinger on Valentine's Day and while it was certainly a work of art, at £35 for the bottle, there is disproportionately more value and enjoyment per ml in a bottle of great beer. Exquisite though it may have been, the price escalator on wine is not really a ladder I'm interested in climbing, other than perhaps once or twice a year on special occasions, anyway.

[Ferris]

[ferris bangs on about the credibility and quality of the North American brewing scene]

Ok cheers

[Blue Jam]

Since Brexit there are a LOT of complaints on beer groups about the duty and import issues shipping beer from Europe, but a persistent minority who post comments like 'who needs Belgian beers anyway we make our own English beer is the best beer in the world'.

Yeah, our richly diverse culture has never benefited from the trade between countries, we got to where we are by just staying at home.

Brexit just fucked the UK for availability of beer styles that aren't as easy to find, and are relatively unfashionable, and are among my faves. I deserve a cry.

I made some homebrew with Festival's "Belgian-Style Ale" kit. I was surprised by how "Belgian" in character, how close to the real thing it was.

Nowhere near enough to stop me having a little cry with you, mind.

[Chedney Honks]

Sit down you big granite-noncing beer nationalist.

Fucksake; so basically when it arrives I'll just pour all this beer down the drain whilst punching myself in the face.

I would recommend that, yes.

Then get yourself some top German beers and and join me down the Alpine Rock Garden for an unholy sesh. Bring leather johnnies.

[TrenterPercenter]

that Vinohradsky Pivovar is back at tremblingmadness think I'll get some to atone for my transgressions.

[TrenterPercenter]

So I've just snarfled;

3x Vinohradsky Pivovar 11
3x Vinohradsky Pivovar 12
3x Vinohradsky Pivovar 13
And a couple of those beers that look like stielhandgrenates

[TrenterPercenter]

https://www.pivovarorders.co.uk/

Not sure if already posted but also came across this prices are better than tremblingmadness not as wide selection though more on the keg side of things - looks pretty good (and first time I've seen Bathams to buy online).