Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => Picture Box => Topic started by: Malcy on July 12, 2020, 07:07:21 PM

Title: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on July 12, 2020, 07:07:21 PM
There a trailer for this at last. Starts August 6th.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=V3RkBKedKWw

Not a fan of the voice acting. Very over the top American. Be worth watching for whatever cameos there are at least.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on July 12, 2020, 07:24:43 PM
I dunno.

Speaking as a Trekkie I think if this wasn't Star Trek I'd be more interested in it. I'll give it a go. Of course I'll give it a go.

I still think they're missing a trick by not using animation to do new TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on July 12, 2020, 07:45:08 PM
The cartoon ship looks more in line with pre-existing Star Trek designs than anything in Disco or Picard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on July 12, 2020, 08:16:22 PM
That actively annoyed me, I had high hopes for the show when it was first announced but it seems too wacky and silly for my liking.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on July 12, 2020, 09:21:49 PM
Bit too generic and The Orville has beat them to the comedy Trek spoof.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Sin Agog on July 12, 2020, 09:37:08 PM
Shrill Trek
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on July 12, 2020, 10:44:21 PM
When I think zany animated comedy, I think Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JamesTC on July 12, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
SHIT
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mango Chimes on July 13, 2020, 12:18:36 AM
Quote from: Sin Agog on July 12, 2020, 09:37:08 PM
Shrill

That's the word. Why does it look and sound like that? Why is all modern Trek like an unfunny spoof?

Is it working for them?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on July 13, 2020, 01:32:42 AM
ohhh wow this looks goood! Ooh look how original, nobody's ever done anything like this before
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: bgmnts on July 13, 2020, 02:38:46 AM
Wouldn't mind exploring Troi's lower decks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: surreal on July 13, 2020, 08:48:47 AM
Looks like someone's been watching Final Space, but not taking enough notes.

(You should all watch Final Space if you've not seen it BTW, it's on netflix)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on July 13, 2020, 09:29:18 AM
The showrunner and creator for this thing is the guy who had put together the "TNG Season 8" Twitter account. That's what landed him a gig on Rick and Morty. Then, the question is how much interference the project has from Paramount and Kurtzman, because that's typically the stuff that causes any comedy to turn generic and bland.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on July 13, 2020, 10:28:30 AM
Quote from: surreal on July 13, 2020, 08:48:47 AM
Looks like someone's been watching Final Space, but not taking enough notes.

That's a good comparison.It can be a bit irritating, always shoehorning in big (often unearned) emotional bits into each episode, but it has done some really nice world building, and the humour and character work is fine (although it takes a while to warm the main guy)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: SavageHedgehog on July 13, 2020, 10:55:48 AM
Think I'll wait for the Nickelodeon series (is that still happening?)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JamesTC on July 13, 2020, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on July 13, 2020, 09:29:18 AM
The showrunner and creator for this thing is the guy who had put together the "TNG Season 8" Twitter account. That's what landed him a gig on Rick and Morty. Then, the question is how much interference the project has from Paramount and Kurtzman, because that's typically the stuff that causes any comedy to turn generic and bland.

TNG Season 8 was funny. Then it was funny again. Then it was a little less funny as it was the same joke again.

Basically a Twitter account which amounted to "The Enterprise investigates an anomaly which could destroy the universe meanwhile Geordi and Data raise puppies" has been turned into a real Star Trek show. What a vacuous husk it has become. The Star Trek equivalent of Shit my Dad Says.

If CBS could turn the Picard facepalm into a show they would.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on July 13, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
Wish they'd let this guy run a show.

https://chiefobrienatwork.com/
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JesusAndYourBush on July 13, 2020, 02:49:40 PM
I saw the trailer yesterday.  Utterly utterly shit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Zetetic on July 13, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
I've just become aware of Star Trek: Specter (https://youtu.be/sGZDwzphAbQ?t=7065) (and its sequels), and this seems as good a place as any to crowbar it in. I'd strongly recommend giving it two minutes of your time, even if it doesn't quite capture the feeling of TNG or DS9, it's an astonishing application of using animation to take Star Trek to new places.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on July 13, 2020, 11:11:09 PM
Quote from: Zetetic on July 13, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
I've just become aware of Star Trek: Specter (https://youtu.be/sGZDwzphAbQ?t=7065) (and its sequels)

Hah, just meant to have a quick look and 20 mins later I managed to pull myself away. Filed under watch later, thanks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on July 13, 2020, 11:40:13 PM
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on July 13, 2020, 09:29:18 AM
That's what landed him a gig on Rick and Morty.
OH GAWD NO
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: idunnosomename on July 14, 2020, 02:05:14 AM
this looks like utter unfunny ass. i dont care, but i fear it may cause my favourite alcoholic, Mike Stoklasa, to die
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: dr_christian_troy on July 14, 2020, 06:09:16 PM
Quote from: Alberon on July 13, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
Wish they'd let this guy run a show.

https://chiefobrienatwork.com/

I discovered that through an old Trek thread recently - marvellous stuff.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mister Six on July 14, 2020, 07:37:19 PM
I dunno, I just don't really get the point. Aside from the ships it doesn't scream Star Trek, in tone or content. It just looks like a watered down Rick and Morty fitted out with bland characters and that generic shrill US animated comedy tone.

Like, why is it about the engineering and maintenance crews? Surely a proper Trek comedy would be about the people on the bridge, and parody the tropes we see in actual Trek? Or if you're doing it about redshirts, why not make it about the actual away teams, and mine some black comedy from their life expectancies?

I suppose you could say that's well-worn ground, but at least it would actually feel like a Star Trek show. And the "well-worn ground" problem highlights the "What's the point?" question even more.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on July 14, 2020, 08:59:57 PM
Come on, flip the pickle, Wesley, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a Tribble, Wesley! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a Tribble! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a Tribble! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a Tribble, Wesley.

I'M A TRIBBLE! I'm Tribble Picaaaard!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Famous Mortimer on July 14, 2020, 10:00:20 PM
Quote from: Mister Six on July 14, 2020, 07:37:19 PM
I dunno, I just don't really get the point. Aside from the ships it doesn't scream Star Trek, in tone or content. It just looks like a watered down Rick and Morty fitted out with bland characters and that generic shrill US animated comedy tone.

Like, why is it about the engineering and maintenance crews? Surely a proper Trek comedy would be about the people on the bridge, and parody the tropes we see in actual Trek? Or if you're doing it about redshirts, why not make it about the actual away teams, and mine some black comedy from their life expectancies?

I suppose you could say that's well-worn ground, but at least it would actually feel like a Star Trek show. And the "well-worn ground" problem highlights the "What's the point?" question even more.
"I think this show should be X"

*show is not X*

"This show sucks because it isn't X"
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on July 14, 2020, 10:14:30 PM
Quote from: Famous Mortimer on July 14, 2020, 10:00:20 PM
"I think this show should be X"

*show is not X*

"This show sucks because it isn't X"

Imagine thinking that a show in the Star Trek franchise should feel like Star Trek to watch? Whatever will people do next?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: earl_sleek on July 14, 2020, 10:28:23 PM
It's such a fucking bollocks, subjective concept. TNG doesn't 'feel' anything like TOS to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on July 15, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
This is finally being released after years of delays. Unbelievable! Starring Snoop Dogg, Michael Madsen & 40+ Star Trek actors.

Has to be seen to be believed.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JUwb_gJEkuo
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Thursday on July 15, 2020, 12:54:51 AM
I'm not a Star Trek fan, but I saw the trailer for this and was angry on behalf of Star Trek fans.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Famous Mortimer on July 15, 2020, 01:57:33 AM
Quote from: Malcy on July 15, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
This is finally being released after years of delays. Unbelievable! Starring Snoop Dogg, Michael Madsen & 40+ Star Trek actors.

Has to be seen to be believed.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JUwb_gJEkuo
Oh dear. I felt bad for everyone in that trailer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Camp Tramp on July 15, 2020, 06:50:17 AM
Reactions to the trailer have been overwhelmingly negative so far across all the forums I watch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Phil_A on July 15, 2020, 10:05:33 AM
Quote from: Mister Six on July 14, 2020, 07:37:19 PM
I dunno, I just don't really get the point. Aside from the ships it doesn't scream Star Trek, in tone or content. It just looks like a watered down Rick and Morty fitted out with bland characters and that generic shrill US animated comedy tone.

Like, why is it about the engineering and maintenance crews? Surely a proper Trek comedy would be about the people on the bridge, and parody the tropes we see in actual Trek? Or if you're doing it about redshirts, why not make it about the actual away teams, and mine some black comedy from their life expectancies?

I suppose you could say that's well-worn ground, but at least it would actually feel like a Star Trek show. And the "well-worn ground" problem highlights the "What's the point?" question even more.

The idea of a Lower Decks spin-off has been discussed as far back as the TNG episode of the same name (which felt at the time like it was written as something of a backdoor pilot), and I think the concept of having a Star Trek show from the perspective of the lower ranking crew members has some legs. The problem is I don't think anyone expected or wanted it to be made like this.

It smacks of the same muddled thinking that sunk the rebooted Trek movies, the idea that the only way you can make Star Trek now is to make it appeal to people that don't watch Star Trek. So you end up with something like this which only serves to alienate the core audience and leaves everyone else bemused.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: greenman on July 15, 2020, 10:11:23 AM
Its the kind of thing you can tell came from a coked out exec meeting, merge the previous idea of lower decks with a Rick and Morty cash in, "we can't lose!".
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: dr_christian_troy on July 15, 2020, 11:51:51 AM
If it has decent and subtle references to the overall mythology - essentially, any kind of depth - I'll be pleasantly surprised.

However, seeing as the gist of the plot is that what they do has very little or no impact to anything important, I'm not optimistic. If anything I'm anticipating a light and hopefully enjoyable but ultimately pointless addition to the Trek universe.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on July 15, 2020, 11:53:26 AM
Just need to update this skit:

(https://i.postimg.cc/WbQ1G2pR/mTOLM4.gif)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JamesTC on July 15, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Quote from: Camp Tramp on July 15, 2020, 06:50:17 AM
Reactions to the trailer have been overwhelmingly negative so far across all the forums I watch.

It'll be considered a huge success. So many Trek fans gobble up any old drek these days. Star Drek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JamesTC on July 15, 2020, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: dr_christian_troy on July 15, 2020, 11:51:51 AM
If it has decent and subtle references to the overall mythology - essentially, any kind of depth - I'll be pleasantly surprised.


It has a reference to the racist TNG episode Code of Honor in the trailer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JamesTC on July 15, 2020, 01:50:03 PM
Quote from: Malcy on July 15, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
This is finally being released after years of delays. Unbelievable! Starring Snoop Dogg, Michael Madsen & 40+ Star Trek actors.

Has to be seen to be believed.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JUwb_gJEkuo

Somehow better than the Lower Decks trailer. At least it reminds me how pretty Linda Park is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on July 15, 2020, 06:12:25 PM
Quote from: Malcy on July 15, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
This is finally being released after years of delays. Unbelievable! Starring Snoop Dogg, Michael Madsen & 40+ Star Trek actors.

Has to be seen to be believed.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JUwb_gJEkuo

That's some of the worst shit I've ever seen.

Idk, maybe it'll be really clever and hilarious and confound my expectations. But I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mister Six on July 16, 2020, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: Phil_A on July 15, 2020, 10:05:33 AM
The idea of a Lower Decks spin-off has been discussed as far back as the TNG episode of the same name (which felt at the time like it was written as something of a backdoor pilot), and I think the concept of having a Star Trek show from the perspective of the lower ranking crew members has some legs. The problem is I don't think anyone expected or wanted it to be made like this.

Yeah, it's just too many steps removed from "proper" Trek. From TOS to the Star Trek: The Animated Series was one step. Fine. From TNG to a hypothetical live-action lower decks show. Also fine. From any era of Trek to a comedy/parody version - also also fine.

But this appears to be TNG to lower decks to an animated series to a comedy (and again to a modern-day, shrill and fast and LOUD post-Archer tone - see also the trailer for Close Enough (https://youtu.be/3sfQehgUUFQ))... as you said, trying to appeal to everyone and ending up making something that appeals to no one.

Quote from: earl_sleek on July 14, 2020, 10:28:23 PM
It's such a fucking bollocks, subjective concept. TNG doesn't 'feel' anything like TOS to me.

And yet both are more like each other than Lower Decks is like either one. Even setting the animaton on the bridge would be Trekky enough for me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: idunnosomename on July 18, 2020, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: Mister Six on July 16, 2020, 09:20:33 AM

But this appears to be TNG to lower decks to an animated series to a comedy (and again to a modern-day, shrill and fast and LOUD post-Archer tone - see also the trailer for Close Enough (https://youtu.be/3sfQehgUUFQ))...
that looks fucking AWFUL.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on July 23, 2020, 08:59:38 PM
Clip at 46m30s here.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JDGNY8EosSI

The female character in the clip is going to get annoying quick I reckon.

They've announced the title of the Nickelodeon CG series. Star Trek: Prodigy.

(http://blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/header-prodigy-nebula-1.jpg)

QuoteNickelodeon and CBS Television Studios today officially revealed the title and logo for its all-new animated series STAR TREK: PRODIGY, which follows a group of lawless teens who discover a derelict Starfleet ship and use it to search for adventure, meaning and salvation. The series is developed by Emmy® Award winners Kevin and Dan Hageman ("Trollhunters" and "Ninjago") and overseen for Nickelodeon by Ramsey Naito, EVP, Animation Production and Development, Nickelodeon.
The CG-animated series, which expands the Star Trek Universe, will debut exclusively on Nickelodeon in 2021 for a new generation of fans.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on July 23, 2020, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: Malcy on July 23, 2020, 08:59:38 PM
Clip at 46m30s here.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JDGNY8EosSI

The female character in the clip is going to get annoying quick I reckon.

They've announced the title of the Nickelodeon CG series. Star Trek: Prodigy.

Wow, that if anything is even more annoying than the trailer. I don't like to shit on things before they're released, and the people who make trailers are often astonishingly bad at their jobs, but this really does look horrible.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mister Six on July 23, 2020, 09:11:05 PM
URL for people who can't be bothered skipping around to find it: https://youtu.be/JDGNY8EosSI?t=2796

Didn't make me laugh, but
Spoiler alert
the leg meat was well-rendered
[close]
.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on July 23, 2020, 11:24:38 PM
This it nitpicky as fuck, but it pissed me off:

She's drinking Romulan Whiskey which appears to be identical to Romulan Ale. Illegal, blue, and highly intoxicating. So why didn't they have her just fucking drink Romulan Ale? Are they intentionally trying to look like they haven't watched any previous Star Trek properly? Can't even get that little bit right.

I bet the one for kids will end up being better because it won't disappear up it's own hole trying to be all edgy by having the characters drink and say rude words, like bum and willy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on July 24, 2020, 12:00:57 AM
Yeah the Romulan whiskey thing was just odd. They just seem to do whatever they like with Trek now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on July 24, 2020, 12:08:53 AM
Yep, I sincerely hope that's excused by her being drunk, and stupid.

Is that clip really the best they can show? Not a single thing you haven't seen before in a comedy, but worse.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on July 24, 2020, 08:24:07 AM
That whole clip I was thinking how they should have played it. Just tone down the thing a great deal and it's funnier. You can still have him get caught doing a captain's log and her making fun of him. But get rid of the bottle smashing and a lot of the bat'leth waving. She's still slightly drunk and drops it on his foot or something. Just because it's a comedy and animated doesn't mean it has to be a cartoon.

I get the feeling this is the opening shot of the first episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JamesTC on July 24, 2020, 09:41:03 AM
"Romulan whisky"

STOP GETTING TREK WRONG
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: beanheadmcginty on July 24, 2020, 02:16:13 PM
I don't want to sound like I'm in any way supportive of this hideous shitefest, but we've got human ale and human whisky and they're both brown and get you drunk so surely it's possible to have Romulan ale and Romulan whisky that are both blue and get you drunk?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on July 24, 2020, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Blumf on July 24, 2020, 12:08:53 AM
Yep, I sincerely hope that's excused by her being drunk, and stupid.

Is that clip really the best they can show? Not a single thing you haven't seen before in a comedy, but worse.

Maybe they're trying to confound our expectations and the follow up to this scene is her sitting down in front of the Captain or First Officer as they chastise her for pissing her career away with another bout of Academy undergraduate behaviour and tell her that she needs to start acting responsibly now that she's a commissioned officer before she gets fucked out of Starfleet or posted to a subspace relay station in the middle of nowhere. I'm not hopeful though.

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on July 24, 2020, 02:16:13 PM
I don't want to sound like I'm in any way supportive of this hideous shitefest, but we've got human ale and human whisky and they're both brown and get you drunk so surely it's possible to have Romulan ale and Romulan whisky that are both blue and get you drunk?

I know, but it's still wheeling out item X to do the exact same thing as the very similar item Y just makes it look they didn't bother reading the previous source material properly. This is on top of two recent series (plus large bits of Ent) that have shown questionable understanding of what made Star Trek good, and just looks like even more laziness and ignorance[nb]Literally. As in the sense of ignoring it[/nb] of what's gone before. Otherwise it probably wouldn't register with me.


Just to not be a total downer, I do like that the aesthetic fits into the timeline properly. The series is set in the 2380s and their ship in terms of things like hull design, interior colour scheme and LCARs displays looks like it was designed and built at broadly the same time as Enterprise-D, which is reasonable. A lot better than the hideous shite that passed for starships in Disco.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: idunnosomename on July 30, 2020, 01:07:17 AM
IT'S A BLAST SHIELD AND IT GOES UP AND IT GOES DOWN BLAST SHIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 06, 2020, 11:13:15 AM
Some thoughts on ep 1.

The opening titles are great. Proper Trek titles again. I think the best part of the whole thing was the look and the setting. Nice to be in a familiar part of the Trek universe.

The characters are ok. Not as annoying as i thought but still some crappy dialogue with people saying 'yo yo wassup' and stuff like that. Its probably one of the best episodes of recent Trek but the bar wasn't exactly high to begin with.

I'm looking forward to the rest of it. 10 weeks of Lower Decks then back to the misery of DSC for the following 13 weeks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on August 06, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Malcy on August 06, 2020, 11:13:15 AM
Some thoughts on ep 1.

The opening titles are great. Proper Trek titles again. I think the best part of the whole thing was the look and the setting. Nice to be in a familiar part of the Trek universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr4bomaqMTE

Yeah, that's not too bad (Letraset Crillee present). Still not watching it.

Not the best looking ship, seems a little unbalanced with the high saucer vs low nacelles/engineering, doesn't hang together. It's no Miranda class, but at least it's not as lardy as the Nebula class.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on August 06, 2020, 08:54:20 PM
I thought it was absolutely horrible, loud, brash and painfully unfunny, filled with characters tiresomely "bantering", and there was a fair amount of tedious gross out humour too. The lead white bloke is bland in the extreme, and I think I might hate Mariner more than I've hated any other Trek character in the show's history.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 06, 2020, 09:56:48 PM
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on August 06, 2020, 08:54:20 PM
I thought it was absolutely horrible, loud, brash and painfully unfunny, filled with characters tiresomely "bantering", and there was a fair amount of tedious gross out humour too. The lead white bloke is bland in the extreme, and I think I might hate Mariner more than I've hated any other Trek character in the show's history.

Agreed on Mariner. Had a strong dislike for her since the trailer. Mike McMahon said something along the lines of it's not American humans on board but Earth humans. So why do they all talk like annoying present-day Yanks?

Odd that they bleeped the swearing as well. Either leave it in or don't use the word. I had a bit of a chuckle during the opening titles but didn't laugh or really find any of it funny.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on August 06, 2020, 10:49:52 PM
I've only watched five minutes so far. Having everything pitched at the same hyperactive level is just fucking irritating.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Famous Mortimer on August 06, 2020, 11:11:45 PM
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on August 06, 2020, 08:54:20 PM
I thought it was absolutely horrible, loud, brash and painfully unfunny, filled with characters tiresomely "bantering", and there was a fair amount of tedious gross out humour too. The lead white bloke is bland in the extreme, and I think I might hate Mariner more than I've hated any other Trek character in the show's history.
Get fucked you Neelix apologist I will end you


(Sorry, I react badly to people not hating Neelix)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Lemming on August 07, 2020, 01:07:48 AM
Pretty mixed feelings. On one hand it feels, on the surface at least, more like Star Trek than Discovery or Picard did. But on the other hand, the tone is so fucking annoying. It's like a headache in cartoon form, everything turned up to 11, everyone shouting, everything happening too fast. The dialogue alienated me too, surely this is gonna look very dated in as little as five years' time. "HER BODY BE BANGIN'!", wow.

Didn't think it was funny, which isn't great for a comedy, obviously. Didn't work as sci-fi either - neither the giant spider nor the zombie virus really had any amount of peril to them. Ideally the show would work as a straight science fiction thing and the laughs would come from there. Imperfect comparison, but the best episodes of Red Dwarf always put the crew in actual jeopardy and the scripts treated the situations seriously, with some properly good sci-fi plots that could easily be transplanted into something like TNG with minimal tweaking. This pilot episode, meanwhile, did basically everything it could to avoid working as a regular Star Trek episode. The spider just molests you with funny goo and steals your underwear, and the zombie situation doesn't matter because you can  h i l a r i o u s l y  continue your date while they run around the ship biting people.

I don't really like the idea of portraying the senior officers as a bunch of clueless dickheads either, and that looks like it could end up being a core component of the show. We're at the point where any attempt to "deconstruct" Star Trek gets very boring very quickly. I know the TNG episode Lower Decks tried to do a similar thing, but it didn't really click with me there, either (except Riker actually is a completely unlikable fuckhead so at least that part was believable). It wasn't even written well here - the way the Captain talked down to the main dude just made her seem like she's a crap commander who wouldn't be in charge of a ship for long. "Senior Staff are filled with hubris and care nothing about most people on the ship" isn't even really a theme outside TNG anyway - Kirk doesn't talk down to anyone in TOS, Sisko ran DS9 as a community rather than a military organisation, and Janeway (best Captain) frequently encouraged everyone on board to take an active role in ship operations.

Oh, and it has to be said, I hate the animation. I don't know why every cartoon since Family Guy has to look exactly like this. Cheap I guess but goddamnit it's ugly. Some of the ship design is cool and it's nice to have more unusual alien designs now but the human characters look like shit.

At the very least I'll keep watching it. There's room for it to go places if it doesn't end up being a bunch of critically unfunny Lol Holodeck Sex and Lol People Getting Injured jokes. Mariner is shaping up to be annoying but there's potential for her to be interesting if they don't go down the awful "misunderstood genius who's just too cool and outside-the-box for Starfleet" route, and instead take the character down a route where she learns that acting like a dipshit on a starship involved in tense humanitarian/diplomatic crises with lives at stake is a really bad idea and will probably get people killed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on August 07, 2020, 02:18:03 PM
Quote from: Famous Mortimer on August 06, 2020, 11:11:45 PM
Get fucked you Neelix apologist I will end you


(Sorry, I react badly to people not hating Neelix)

I completely understand your reaction and would have posted the same thing. But amazingly, even though Neelix is a horrendous character, somehow Mariner is actually worse. Words which I once thought to be impossible, too, but it does turn out to be the case.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 07, 2020, 02:38:34 PM
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on August 07, 2020, 02:18:03 PM
I completely understand your reaction and would have posted the same thing. But amazingly, even though Neelix is a horrendous character, somehow Mariner is actually worse. Words which I once thought to be impossible, too, but it does turn out to be the case.



Neelix was probably never the lowest on my list but since Picard & DSC came along he's far far from the bottom!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: idunnosomename on August 07, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
im glad that in 2020 we are progressive enough to have a black female lead in a star trek cartoon who is also SA-SAAAAY!!!! YEAH BEE-OTCH!!!!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: JamesTC on August 07, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
When Netflix got Star Trek they should have renamed it Neelix for the day.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 07, 2020, 03:16:58 PM
Just remembered something else that stuck out. One of the crew had a LaForge style VISOR. Are the ocular implants like Geordie got only given out to high ranking crew?! Maybe if Pike had made Admiral he would have got a better wheelchair...

Mariners rant at the end was a bit ridiculous. It was like they decided to throw a load of rapid fire references in incase any Trek fans who hated it would get some satisfaction from it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Camp Tramp on August 07, 2020, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Blumf on August 06, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr4bomaqMTE



Not the best looking ship, seems a little unbalanced with the high saucer vs low nacelles/engineering, doesn't hang together. It's no Miranda class, but at least it's not as lardy as the Nebula class.

You take that back about the Nebula class. She is a compact and beautiful design.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on August 07, 2020, 05:10:43 PM
Quote from: Camp Tramp on August 07, 2020, 04:11:42 PM
You take that back about the Nebula class. She is a compact and beautiful design.

USS MR. CREOSOTE
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/1/10/USS_Prometheus_ventral%2C_Second_Sight.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080827221457&path-prefix=en)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 07, 2020, 08:38:56 PM
Yeah, I think that was shit.

Star Trek 'feel' was entirely down to it being set on a starship, dig below that and it has as much to do with Star Trek is it does with the works of Giraldus Cambrensis. It also wasn't funny and for the most part consisted of obnoxious shits shouting at each other for 26 minutes.

Since Mariner was demoted and has already nailed her 'my morals are superior to Starfleet regs' colours to the mast, I don't think there's much chance that she'll cop on and realise her behaviour is childish and dangerous. It's more likely that the captain (Her Mom?) and senior staff will come around to her way of thinking.

Speaking of whom, they make Admiral Sheer Fucking Hubris from Picard look reasonable.

And I know this is probably invalid criticism for a 'comedy' but the main characters are considered such plebs that they have their bunks in an actual corridor? I know it's established in The Undiscovered Country and Voyager that crewmen have to share quarters, (even though Starfleet ships except for the Defiant are huge for the number of people on them), but a corridor? Why not just nail them to crosses instead to show how unfair their life is? Or is that not funny enough? And these people are actually officers, btw, albeit unimportant ones. Where do non-comms sleep on that ship? In the anti-matter storage tanks?

Quote from: Lemming on August 07, 2020, 01:07:48 AM
"Senior Staff are filled with hubris and care nothing about most people on the ship" isn't even really a theme outside TNG

It's not even a theme in TNG that I can recall outside of the 'Lower Decks' episode and maybe that time Riker pulled the head off Barclay. Who in fairness at that time was constantly fucking late for work cos he was jacking off in the holodeck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Famous Mortimer on August 10, 2020, 02:44:05 PM
https://www.theringer.com/tv/2020/8/6/21357421/star-trek-lower-decks-picard-television-expansion

I normally respect the Ringer, but this feels like it was written by someone who is desperate to keep on the good side of someone at CBS All Access. It's full of things that...let's just say I would not agree with, were I in a position of power over Star Trek.

Quote"I just think that there are some key elements that you can't break about Trek," Kurtzman says. "Ultimately it has to reinforce [Gene] Roddenberry's essential vision of an optimistic future." Kurtzman also insists that "every episode actually has to be a great Star Trek episode. It can't just be a lot of jokes."

Ensuring that the humor of Lower Decks comes from a place of affection for Trek, as opposed to "punching down" at its ideals, was the Prime Directive for its creator, who cites spiritual predecessor Galaxy Quest as the template for a loving send-up of Trek tropes. "If you went into it trying to poke holes or find reasons that the Federation wouldn't be good, you could do that. But then it's not Star Trek anymore," he says. He also steered his writers away from an idea for a plot line in which Kirk pilots a space Uber, which might have been funny but wouldn't have been true to Trek. The show he envisioned—and, through the four episodes provided to critics, largely succeeded in creating—is "just one step away from being a classic, dramatic Star Trek show without taking the air out of the tires of what makes Star Trek, Star Trek."

I feel like "Discovery" is different to what Kurtzman is saying he wants to do with Star Trek, and while I'm not opposed to a comedy set in the Star Trek world, I'm not sure why people are so determined to make different things out of it. Would "a serious sci-fi series set in the same universe as Friends" get much traction? It feels like only sci-fi gets this treatment. Also, they make a reference to them doing a TOS-style show where each episode will be largely stand-alone, as if it's this grand experiment in TV. Shows like TNG invented whole new worlds and conflicts and wrapped them up in 42 minutes, and some of them are marvels of writing. I like standalone episodes! Why not do more of them! Also also, they're going to do a Section 31 show with Michelle Yeoh in it, which will be all dark and shit, apparently. There were a few good Section 31 novels, which I'm sure the show will be nothing at all like.

I know most of you already have, but the new Red Letter Media episode on TNG really crystallised a bunch of thoughts I've been having about it, but in a much more coherent way. The little section where Mike lists the different sorts of TNG episodes, then lists the different sorts of Discovery episodes, is perfect.

Re: the quote from Lemming and reply from Wonderful Butternut, I've been watching old TNG episodes thanks to the Pluto.TV app on the Roku. They just had "Neutral Zone", at the end of season 1, and the financier guy wonders what's going to happen when he goes back to Earth and, thanks to the post-scarcity economy, there's no-one left to exploit. Picard says the challenge now is to improve yourself, and I always really liked that response. The people in Star Trek have been raised and educated in a completely different world, so while they're human beings with the same drives and urges, they know as an absolute fact that there's no need to accumulate wealth or steal X or Y, or fuck over their fellow officer for a promotion. I've seen dozens of moments where the various captains have agonized over the deaths of their crew, so I just don't understand that criticism (which you both disagree with too, just adding my voice).
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on August 10, 2020, 03:53:43 PM
I think I've got about halfway through the first episode by now, but I'm throwing in the towel. I have no problem with animation or comedy though the way this show goes about it is terrible. It has one emotional level - of a hyperactive toddler - but the critical problem is that it just isn't funny.

The interviews hint at a bit more drama down the line, but I don't care. This is superficial fuckery made by people who think they know Trek, but don't.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 10, 2020, 05:52:05 PM
Quote from: Famous Mortimer on August 10, 2020, 02:44:05 PMAlso also, they're going to do a Section 31 show with Michelle Yeoh in it, which will be all dark and shit, apparently. There were a few good Section 31 novels, which I'm sure the show will be nothing at all like.

I think they've put that one on ice for a while. Either they want to keep Yeoh in Discovery or they realised what a monumentally bad idea a grimdark Section 31 series is. Mirror Georgiou is an absolute waste of screen time and Yeoh's acting talents no matter which series she's in anyway. I'm so pissed they discarded the potentially good Prime Georgiou after one episode.

In the quote you have from Kurtzmann, he goes on about reinforcing the essential vision of an optimistic future. Eh... yeah Alex matey... Disco didn't do that. Even a little bit. And Picard was properly fucking miserable until the shallow positive ending. Ep 1 of Lower Decks arguably was better in that respect, but only because it's light-hearted and inconsequential. I'd still consider the senior / junior officer divide that was never really a thing before somewhat at odds with Roddenberry's optimistic vision. The level of lip-service that they're coming out with that isn't backed up by what's on the sodding screen is pissing me off.

Guess we're down to hoping that Strange New Worlds will provide the traditional and optimistic Star Trek experience.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Lemming on August 10, 2020, 10:49:51 PM
Jesus that line about the "joke" with Kirk driving an Uber is raw pure desolation. The writing team came up with a joke so shit that even Alex Kurtzman couldn't take it. That's a terrible sign.

I wouldn't trust anything Kurtzman says because he'll literally say anything. "It's important to keep an optimistic future alive and be respectful to the established setting," he says as he oversees Discovery and Picard. Won't even be surprised at this point if Strange New Worlds is a 10-part serialised grimdark nightmare about Pike getting his face blown off.

Is there any indication as to how well these shows are doing? My obsessive polling of my friends, Star Trek fans and non-Trek fans alike, suggest that nobody really gives a shit about any of these series, but they must be making substantial amounts of cash if CBS/Amazon are continuing to shit them out at this rate.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: beanheadmcginty on August 10, 2020, 10:53:07 PM
How and why has Kurtzman managed to get an iron grip on Star Trek? Is there any chance or way he can be binned off? It will never be good while he is involved. Can't we have someone like Ronald D. Moore in charge instead?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on August 10, 2020, 11:13:02 PM
Discovery was supposed to be in profit from the off due to selling it outside the US to Netflix and the Star Trek name is a good one to lead the CBS online platform.

But I don't get the feeling fans are terribly enthused by the new shows. I'm willing to see how Brave New Worlds turns out but if it's as shit as the other three then I'll probably walk away from it all.

Trek doesn't have the TV SF world to itself anymore as it largely did in the 80s and 90s.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 10, 2020, 11:19:45 PM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on August 10, 2020, 10:53:07 PM
How and why has Kurtzman managed to get an iron grip on Star Trek?

JJ Abrams brought him in to write the screenplays of the first two reboot films with Robert Orci. He abandoned ship for the third one, which incidentally was the best of that series.

As for Disco, he's listed as co-creator but I'm nearly certain that he wasn't actually involved at first. My recollection is that Bryan Fuller successfully pitched it, and was running the show during all the early concept work, setting, characters, plot and is definitely responsible for the Klingorcs. But they hit problems behind the scenes, some writers started to leave and Fuller was effectively pushed out by the studio.[nb]He was credited as 'Executive Consultant' for season 2. That's the type of title they gave Gene for the movies when they thought he was going a bit nuts and sidelined him completely on the creative process.[/nb] Then they turned to Kurtzman because of his involvement in the reasonably financially successful reboot movies and he hasn't released his claws since.

I could be remembering this wrong, however.

I can only assume that he and his acolytes did enough with Disco that CBS were willing to greenlight Picard and Lower Decks too. Although there have been rumours that Netflix were properly pissed that the international distribution of Disco wasn't nearly as lucrative as they thought, hence why Picard was with Amazon Prime instead of Netflix like Disco. I wonder how much of their viewing figures come from Star Trek fans 'giving it a chance' that'll dwindle over the next season of each if they don't improve.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Blumf on August 11, 2020, 10:40:51 AM
From my understanding, Lower Decks has been in development for ages, before CBS realised that DIS and PIC were failures (which they are, because CBS doesn't talk about viewing figures and Netflix told them to fuck off)

All that's left is that kids cartoon, Prodigy, which at least won't be full of substance abuse and vivisection. Everything else is either outright cancelled or put into a shady development area with little news of progress.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 11, 2020, 10:52:54 AM
Quote from: Blumf on August 11, 2020, 10:40:51 AM
From my understanding, Lower Decks has been in development for ages, before CBS realised that DIS and PIC were failures (which they are, because CBS doesn't talk about viewing figures and Netflix told them to fuck off)

All that's left is that kids cartoon, Prodigy, which at least won't be full of substance abuse and vivisection. Everything else is either outright cancelled or put into a shady development area with little news of progress.

Prodigy has announced its 'creative lead'  which I assume is just a fancy name for showrunner.

https://trekmovie.com/2020/08/10/award-winning-producer-director-joins-star-trek-prodigy-as-creative-lead/

Strange New Worlds is apparently up to the script writing stage. To be 10 episodes I think. As for the Section 31 show it's something I don't see happening. It was originally supposed to be getting made right after DSC series 2 but then SNW got announced and it's been pushed back again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 11, 2020, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: Blumf on August 11, 2020, 10:40:51 AM
From my understanding, Lower Decks has been in development for ages, before CBS realised that DIS and PIC were failures (which they are, because CBS doesn't talk about viewing figures and Netflix told them to fuck off)

All that's left is that kids cartoon, Prodigy, which at least won't be full of substance abuse and vivisection. Everything else is either outright cancelled or put into a shady development area with little news of progress.

Despite Disco's lack of performance upsetting Netflix, it's apparently been renewed by CBS up to Season 5. So, somehow, it can't have flopped quite that hard. Of course if season 3 tanks, then maybe S4 & S5 will be unrenewed. Especially if Strange New Worlds is there to take its place.

I wouldn't be surprised if Season 1 of Picard was actually successful in terms of viewership. A lot of people gave it a chance for the season even though they didn't like it. Those people, me included, are still numbers and money, even if we're poor in terms of critical reception. Season 2 could see those people switch off if it's more of the same though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Lemming on August 13, 2020, 04:37:03 PM
Second episode was a touch better than the first, but it still feels like this entire show doesn't need to exist.

The callbacks to existing stuff are mostly just annoying ("KIRK HANDS!", "Try the Janeway Protocol", etc) and it's still just not that funny. Liked some of the visuals in this episode at least. I don't really see where they're going with Mariner - she's unstoppable, knows everything, and seems to have insane combat skills as well as insane diplomatic skills. Either they're setting her up for a fall or she really is just the single greatest person ever to live.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on August 13, 2020, 11:11:22 PM
Still haven't got through the first episode. I think the extant of my engagement with this show will be this thread.

Sad in a way - the first entire Trek series I've bailed on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mister Six on August 13, 2020, 11:24:52 PM
Quote from: Lemming on August 13, 2020, 04:37:03 PM
The callbacks to existing stuff are mostly just annoying ("KIRK HANDS!", "Try the Janeway Protocol", etc) and it's still just not that funny. Liked some of the visuals in this episode at least. I don't really see where they're going with Mariner - she's unstoppable, knows everything, and seems to have insane combat skills as well as insane diplomatic skills. Either they're setting her up for a fall or she really is just the single greatest person ever to live.

Well she's a black woman in a pandering modern Star Trek show so yeah, probably the latter. See also: Michael from Discovery.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 14, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
Rutherford's plot was cool. Made the senior crew not look like shits as a bonus. Aside from the fact that seriously trying to change divisions just so he could spend more time with Tendi is a bit extreme, (does he not have some downtime in the evening or anything?) but I'd forgive it that.

Jesus fucking Christ, Mariner though. Wesley Crusher and Season 2 Burnham had a baby and then force fed it steroids. Obnoxious know it all who can handle any situation and then when Boilmer feels inferior about it, she pretends not to recognise a Ferengi to try and make him feel better. As if any Starfleet officer could confuse a Ferengi with a Bolian. And it's not even a random Ferengi either, it's her friend, who just conveniently happened to be there, and she got him do it on purpose. And of course he's an ass about it for no reason later.

So if Boilmer and Mariner just get killed and the rest of the series is about Rutherford and Tendi, I'd be happy.

I'm probably being very optimistic but
Spoiler alert
Boilmer responds to Mariner's comment about doing 'black ops' with the Klingon 'back in the day' by asking what day since Mariner is the same age as him. Maybe, just maybe, rather than that being an offhand 'joke', it's the first hint that Mariner is actually not what she appears - a human ensign in her early 20s and they'll drag some decent plot material out of that. I'm probably just desperate for something intellectual though and it's just for laughs. And either way I would really just prefer if the two of them were killed.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Lemming on August 14, 2020, 11:56:26 PM
Quote from: Mister Six on August 13, 2020, 11:24:52 PM
Well she's a black woman in a pandering modern Star Trek show so yeah, probably the latter. See also: Michael from Discovery.

I ended up warming up to Burnham a bit, but a lot of that was definitely due to Martin-Green's performance, which I think was impressively strong considering how shit a lot of the material was, and she ended up imbuing the character with more nuance than actually existed in the scripts (because none existed in the scripts). Since this is an animation and the voice directors are clearly demanding very broad and shouty performances from the actors, Mariner's got no such chance. They must be going somewhere with the character though, because if all is as it seems to be right now, they've literally just written an even more annoying Wesley, as Wonderful Butternut says, and surely no writer - especially not a writer working on a Star Trek production - is going to walk into that trap again.

...surely.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Lemming on August 20, 2020, 05:46:38 PM
Anyone else still watching this? Episode three was pretty tedious and echoed the same themes as the previous two - everyone on the ship is a dipshit who can't do their job (including bridge crew), Star Trek tropes have to be "hilariously" subverted in the most painfully predictable ways, past series and characters (in this case, Kirk and O'Brien) have to be referenced for no real reason, Mariner is a demigod, and above all else everything is just NOT FUNNY.

I did get the first actual laugh so far, though, when the attacking aliens refer to the Federation as "wood loving freaks" or something like that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 20, 2020, 05:47:52 PM
I'll probably pick it up tomorrow.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 20, 2020, 10:23:28 PM
Quote from: Lemming on August 20, 2020, 05:46:38 PM
Anyone else still watching this? Episode three was pretty tedious and echoed the same themes as the previous two - everyone on the ship is a dipshit who can't do their job (including bridge crew), Star Trek tropes have to be "hilariously" subverted in the most painfully predictable ways, past series and characters (in this case, Kirk and O'Brien) have to be referenced for no real reason, Mariner is a demigod, and above all else everything is just NOT FUNNY.

I did get the first actual laugh so far, though, when the attacking aliens refer to the Federation as "wood loving freaks" or something like that.

Have to disagree. I got a good few laughs out of this weeks. It's probably the most I've enjoyed an episode of Trek since it came back to TV. yeah its all a bit silly but this weeks was a step up from the previous two. It looks great too, it's nice to see familiar designs and the score has some nice nods to the past.

The constant referencing is a bit annoying but still not as much as Mariner. Slightly toned down this week so hoping that's a gradual thing. Thought the opening and closing scenes were really good. I'm just trying to enjoy it since DSC & Picard are so shit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Lemming on August 27, 2020, 11:12:50 PM
Tonight's episode was the first that I felt had more pros than cons:

- Actual standalone sci-fi plot that isn't just a send-up of tropes
- Senior officers and the Captain actually came off as competent
- The episode seemed to largely want you to side with the Captain, and therefore against Mariner, which is great because Mariner is still UNBEARABLE
- Laughed four times!
- Tellarite

Still plenty to complain about - the "ascension" B-plot, Mariner being hyper-competent again (when the plot would have worked even better if she'd had to defer to the Captain), most jokes still not working - but it's at least made me hopeful that they have some kind of arc in mind for Mariner that ends with her being less insufferable.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mister Six on August 28, 2020, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on August 14, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
Jesus fucking Christ, Mariner though. Wesley Crusher and Season 2 Burnham had a baby

Was Burnham even more of a messianic Mary Sue in season 2 than she was in season 1? One of the reasons I gave up at the hiatus was that I was tired of every episode revolving around how great but misunderstood she was, as every character waited for her to fix everything. Even in the episode where the doctor (good character, great actor) was doing his Groundhog Day thing!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 28, 2020, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: Mister Six on August 28, 2020, 01:02:14 PM
Was Burnham even more of a messianic Mary Sue in season 2 than she was in season 1? One of the reasons I gave up at the hiatus was that I was tired of every episode revolving around how great but misunderstood she was, as every character waited for her to fix everything. Even in the episode where the doctor (good character, great actor) was doing his Groundhog Day thing!

I didn't really consider her a Sue in season 1, but in season 2 she kinda was. Literally everything that happened in season 2, except Stamets & Culber's relationship, revolved around her. The funniest bit was when
Spoiler alert
Spock criticised her for being so arrogant as to try to take the entire universe's problems on her shoulders as if everything revolved around her. Except instead of this being a jumping off point for growth for the character, later in the very same episode she is directly told that the season's overarching plot was all about her.
[close]

Probably don't need to spoiler that, but just in case someone wants to watch the trainwreck without having it ruined for them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mister Six on August 28, 2020, 06:16:55 PM
In season one - at least the first half - she felt like a teen fanfic Mary Sue, in that she's angsty and misunderstood and put upon, but the Federation's hatred of her is really down to bad luck. She constantly and consistently does the right thing in every situation, but circumstances conspire to make her the victim and outcast. And she has an inner brilliance that makes her bosses respect her even when the normies hate her, and she's Spock's sister, and Spock's dad loved her the most and so on and so on and so on...

I know the Treks have historically featured remarkable people as their central captain/commander figures, but they usually had some kind of flaw, weakness or other humanising element (Picard hating kids, Sisko being a grumpy man on the verge of going apeshit etc) and they'd be backgrounded to let the other cast members shine. And even when you had Sisko being the "prophet", he never felt like he was the centre of the universe (or the quadrant).

I don't know whether it's because the writers were a bunch of fanboys who were living their Star Trek dreams out through the show, or whether it was just a misguided attempt to make their woman of colour character "strong", but it's tedious. Not as tedious as me moaning about it two years later. But tedious.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 28, 2020, 07:45:56 PM
Episode 3:

I'm already annoyed at the teaser. Boilmer plays Violin in the ship's bar and everyone is bored by it. Then Mariner pushes him off stage to play heavy metal so loud as to briefly disrupting ship operations. This is both a hilarious send up of people always performing classical music in Star Trek and showing Mariner as totes awesome and Boilmer as a wet blanket.

Except no, what it actually is is a waste of animation cels.

The main plot actually turned out a bit better than I thought. The setup was stupidly ridiculous and the Captain should be discharged from Starfleet and preferably killed over it,
Spoiler alert
but I liked that it showed that Boilmer was actually better at something than Mariner and the First Officer fought the huge alien instead of her. But then they went and shat all over it by having the him put Mariner in the brig for a minor breach of uniform code just to lolariously flex his command muscles. This wasn't funny and just annoyed me.
[close]

The Caitian doctor did a cat hiss when fighting an alien and told Mariner she looks like a fucking scratching post. She's the best character in it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on August 28, 2020, 10:21:46 PM
I LOLed out loud at the Chief O'Brien gag. But retrospectively I have a lot of problems with it.

First off, it doesn't look like Colm Meaney. Not even slightly.

(https://scifanatic-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lds-103-eggs-miles.jpg)

And... it doesn't make any sense. Why is Miles O'Brien the most important person in Starfleet history? And a statue of him in his TNG days (TNG uniform, standing at a transporter console), no less - suggesting that's the basis of his fame - after all, do you see statues of Alexander The Great doing his laundry? No, he's on a big fuck-off horse waving a sword.

No, it's a pointless Family Guy-style cutaway gag that makes no sense within the internal Star Trek logic than Lower Decks purports to adhere to.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on August 28, 2020, 10:32:44 PM
Is it a side-splittingly funny dig at that webcomic that consists entirely of O'Brien being completely unimportant, lonely and miserable? Or perhaps just a hilarious subversion of our expectations when she said "the most important person in Starfleet" that it'd be Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Pike, Janeway or one of the Lower Decks crew?

Either way it was obviously meant to be tremendously funny. I just thought it was a thing that happened, personally. Like rain falling or a dog shitting somewhere.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 04, 2020, 05:15:46 PM
Still enjoying this. Everyone is becoming a little less annoying and it might not be all that funny but it's still infinitely more enjoyable than DSC & Picard. I do think the constant referencing of past-Trek is getting a bit much though. Kirk Sundae's with Trip Tucker sprinkles, and things like that. They seem so forced and I usually love little nods to the past but i just feel the majority are unnecessary.

This week had
Spoiler alert
a ship the same class as Capt. Crushers ship The Pasteur from All Good Things which i was delighted to see, especially since it was docked at DS9! But they never showed them ON DS9! Thought that was a wasted opportunity but maybe something we'll see in the second half.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on September 04, 2020, 11:33:09 PM
Finally watched the last half of episode 1. It's awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2020, 12:12:15 AM
There's been a new trailer on the Lower Decks Star Trek Day panel. It's got a spoiler in it I would rather not have known in advance but it was on Twitter etc so hard to avoid even though I didn't see the trailer.

But if you're not arsed then
Spoiler alert
John DeLancie is back as Q!
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 10, 2020, 07:46:14 PM
Nice to have JG Hertzler (Martok in DS9) do a voice this week. Rutherford & Tendi are the better pairing of characters i reckon. Still flinging loads of references around but it's enjoyable enough and not miserable which means i look forward to it.

Wish this was focused on the Bridge crew. Shaxs the Bajoran security chief wanting to just open fire was great and very Worf.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 24, 2020, 11:51:23 AM
Great episode this week. Really enjoyed it. Genuine laughs and loads of visually familiar stuff. Shame there's only 2 left.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on September 25, 2020, 10:09:24 PM
That was the first decent episode and, not coincidentally, the first one that sounded like an ensemble piece without Mariner as Poochie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 01, 2020, 12:56:38 PM
Another great episode, the show has definitely settled in and is nowhere near as annoying as it was when it started. Loved all the film stuff. Especially the music and opening credits in the holodeck. I wonder will there be another big cameo for the finale next week.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on October 01, 2020, 09:30:55 PM
Maybe I should try a late-season episode? At the moment I've no inclination to touch episode 2.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 01, 2020, 09:39:00 PM
Quote from: Alberon on October 01, 2020, 09:30:55 PM
Maybe I should try a late-season episode? At the moment I've no inclination to touch episode 2.

Episode 8 and 9 are great.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on October 03, 2020, 02:55:44 PM
Quote from: Phil_A on July 15, 2020, 10:05:33 AM
The idea of a Lower Decks spin-off has been discussed as far back as the TNG episode of the same name (which felt at the time like it was written as something of a backdoor pilot), and I think the concept of having a Star Trek show from the perspective of the lower ranking crew members has some legs. The problem is I don't think anyone expected or wanted it to be made like this.

My quiet hope for a show with this title was that they'd retell TNG from the perspective of a lower decks crew starting with Encounter at Farpoint. Use clips intermingled with new stuff on authenticly recreated Enterprise D sets. Basically 'Trials and Tribble-ations' the series.

They could 'expand' the beloved TNG world by going deep instead of wide, going into new areas of the ship we've not seen before.

Some episodes would be directly and significantly affected by the events of the episode in which it is set (e.g. in 'Genesis,' our lower decks crew would have to devolve and we'd get that story again from a different perspective) but some episodes would be standalone and relatively original if the episode (e.g. Darmok) was just about Picard/the main crew on an away mission or stuck in the Holodeck.

The original TNG crew would be almost like celebrities in this show so our guys could talk about the antics of Data and Worf and Bev without the elderly actors having to be in it. You could have some new voice work from Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes addressing the crew over the intercom or through the comm badges.

CBS: DM ME IF YOU WANT TO BUY THIS IDEA. ALSO, PLZ RETCON DISCO AND ST:PICARD COMPLETELY, THANKS.

The rest of you, email me if you want a pizza roll.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on October 03, 2020, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: Malcy on September 24, 2020, 11:51:23 AM
Great episode this week. Really enjoyed it. Genuine laughs and loads of visually familiar stuff. Shame there's only 2 left.

Which episode was this, Malcy? I'll seek it out.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on October 03, 2020, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: mothman on August 28, 2020, 10:21:46 PM
Why is Miles O'Brien the most important person in Starfleet history? And a statue of him in his TNG days (TNG uniform, standing at a transporter console), no less - suggesting that's the basis of his fame

So Lower Decks is in TNG's future? Post-Voyager even? The uniforms and the shuttlecraft in the trailer (all I've seen of this) makes it look like it's set during TNG times. Isn't it?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 03, 2020, 03:44:08 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on October 03, 2020, 02:59:53 PM
Which episode was this, Malcy? I'll seek it out.

Episode 8. 9 is really worth a watch as well.

Quote from: Mobbd on October 03, 2020, 03:03:10 PM
So Lower Decks is in TNG's future? Post-Voyager even? The uniforms and the shuttlecraft in the trailer (all I've seen of this) makes it look like it's set during TNG times. Isn't it?

It's around 2380 I think. 1 year after Nemesis whenever that was set.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on October 03, 2020, 03:51:01 PM
Quote from: Malcy on October 03, 2020, 03:44:08 PM
Episode 8. 9 is really worth a watch as well.

It's around 2380 I think. 1 year after Nemesis whenever that was set.

Nice one. Thanks!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on October 03, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
I just watched episode 8 and it's better than the first couple, but it still didn't do it for me, it was just far too shouty and annoying still. Mariner's better in it at least, and the storyline was vaguely involving, but I just didn't find it funny at all bar a couple of jokes. And I know they bleeped it out, but swearing in Star Trek just seems wrong to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 03, 2020, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on October 03, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
And I know they bleeped it out, but swearing in Star Trek just seems wrong to me.

Yeah Trek doesn't need swearing. It was very cringey in DSC and I really don't see the point of it here. Especially when it's bleeped out anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: grainger on October 03, 2020, 11:28:37 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on August 11, 2020, 05:58:46 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Season 1 of Picard was actually successful in terms of viewership. A lot of people gave it a chance for the season even though they didn't like it. Those people, me included, are still numbers and money, even if we're poor in terms of critical reception. Season 2 could see those people switch off if it's more of the same though.

I'm not even going to watch one minute of Season 2. I'm done with Picard. They can simply fuck right off now. I'm not even going to explain again why. They didn't bother. Why should I?

It's (and other modern stuff claiming to be Trek) has also pretty much killed my desire to watch anything else in the "franchise" for the forseeable future. It's dead.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on October 04, 2020, 11:10:22 AM
Quote from: grainger on October 03, 2020, 11:28:37 PM
I'm not even going to watch one minute of Season 2. I'm done with Picard. They can simply fuck right off now. I'm not even going to explain again why. They didn't bother. Why should I?

Agreed.

Quote from: grainger on October 03, 2020, 11:28:37 PM
I'm not even going to watch
It's (and other modern stuff claiming to be Trek) has also pretty much killed my desire to watch anything else in the "franchise" for the forseeable future. It's dead.

Nah, don't let them spoil it for you. Watch the originals from The Cage to Endgame on a continuous loop like I (and the other winners) do.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 08, 2020, 10:39:18 AM
Very TNG episode this week for many reasons.

Spoiler alert
Pakleds! And as soon as the captain spoke I recognised it was Rich Fulcher which was great.

I guessed when the Titan was mentioned that it was probably going to appear. Great to finally see it in action and especially with the TNG theme playing. Since Riker & Troi have already appeared recently it would have been nice to put Dax & Tuvok in there as well. They were part of the crew in the books.

Riker's joke about Enterprise and it's theme tune was brilliant. One of the highlights of the series. Really enjoyed Ransom talking about the TOS era and saying it stands for 'Those Old Scientists'.

Only bit I didn't enjoy that much was the stuff with the Exocomp. Don't think I enjoyed the TNG episode they appeared in that much either.

Seeing TAS versions of Kirk & Spock was a good touch as well.

Wasn't expecting them to kill anyone off but I suppose Shax being the security chief killed off in the first series is very Tasha Yar of him. Shame as I liked the character.
[close]

Shame they whacked a trailer for Discovery between the final scene and the credits though. I didn't have much hope for this show but it's really stepped it up in the last 3. It's definitely the most I've enjoyed Trek since Enterprise. I've looked forward to the next episode without wondering what misery laden bore fest awaits in DSC & Picard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on October 13, 2020, 10:11:43 PM
The episode was fine. It had some epic scope, it was funny, there were some genuine emotions, the callbacks were fine, and there were surprises.

If only the season had managed to reach these heights. The main problem is that the show still doesn't know what it wants to be.
Is it Star Trek, but with some snark, for millennials?
Is it a show that pays tribute to the old ST shows, especially TNG, with some callbacks and easter eggs for the fans?
Is it parodying the worst trends in ST?
Does it want to explore weird concepts developed in Star Trek over the decades (something that Rick & Morty already does about parallel universes) or mostly fill the holes about what happened to so-and-so after their sole appearance in a Star Trek episode?
Does it want to have stand-alone episodes as in the old shows, with some comedic spin, or tell a longer, unified story? (the finale at least found some satisfying balance to the season)
Why does it spends so much time exploring Mariner's psyche, especially when it's much more predictable and less interesting than the writers assume? (Not a dig at Tawny Newsome, who was genuinely great in Bajillion Dollar Propertie$)

With some insight, they could turn the show into something good and consistent for the second season, but they really need to know why they want to write and produce this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 13, 2020, 10:27:00 PM
Some S2 details here.

https://trekmovie.com/2020/10/13/star-trek-lower-decks-season-2-will-explore-mariners-sexuality-and-probably-feature-more-tng-cameos/
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on December 17, 2020, 11:12:29 AM
This is finally getting a UK release. Friday 22nd January on Amazon Prime. Think they are quite far ahead on series 2 production.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on January 22, 2021, 05:11:49 PM
Binge-watching this due to their being nothing to do. All the characters are one-note obnoxious cliches that don't come across as remotely like real people. The different worlds they visit are quite interesting and well thought out.

Why do characters in cartoons have to be idiots? Aside from perhaps the security officer, there isn't one character who comes across as normal. It's like they put a load of Instragram models on a starship. There's almost no growth or development of characters.

On Season One Episode 5 now. If the ship
Spoiler alert
blows up a moon, it kills the people on one planet. If they don't, it kills the people on another planet
[close]
. The solution is
Spoiler alert
surely move all the people on the two planets onto the same planet, whichever one won't get destroyed
[close]
. Eventually it is solved by there
Spoiler alert
being only two people on one of the planets
[close]
.



Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Pink Gregory on January 24, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
Similar sentiments from a non-Trek family here.

Striking how the crew's full of cyborgs and aliens of all races, and yet they seem to all have the same face and body type.  Also any good material is immediately overwritten by another 2-3 gag lines so nothing gets to land.  Wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of improvisation.  Also I get it's supposed to be an action-comedy show, but it comes and goes with little impact.

Just made us watch Futurama again, which (especially the pilot) seems avant-garde in comparison.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Nobody Soup on January 25, 2021, 11:38:28 PM
Just saw this was on prime. I find it surprisingly decent so far. Allowing for first series feet finding it's definitely worth sticking with. I didn't believe people who said this was actually the best of the 3 new treks but it probably is.



Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on January 26, 2021, 12:10:12 AM
Quote from: Nobody Soup on January 25, 2021, 11:38:28 PM
Just saw this was on prime. I find it surprisingly decent so far. Allowing for first series feet finding it's definitely worth sticking with. I didn't believe people who said this was actually the best of the 3 new treks but it probably is.

I got more enjoyment and pleasure out of the opening titles and theme tune to this more than I have from every bit of Picard & DSC combined. Every week watching the titles with the speakers turned up and a smile on my face compared to shouting "fuck off" numerous times an episode with the other shows.

Michael Dorn has gave some more details of what his Worf show is about. Wish they would make it but not with the current staff!

QuoteYears ago you and I spoke – and this was before CBS All Access even existed – about your idea for a Captain Worf show. In the last five years or so, have you talked to the CBS All Access people about this project?

Yeah, I actually did. And, interestingly enough, it seems to rise and fall. There's interest and then there's not. Then there's interest and then there's not. And I guess it was two years ago I thought they would take it a little further. But that did not happen. So I don't know if the whole idea is dead – not in my mind. [laughs] I believe that they are missing a great opportunity to insert something into Star Trek that's always been part of the Star Trek lexicon, which is the Klingons.

Could you give us your latest elevator pitch?

Basically, the script I wrote was: Instead of looking at the Klingon Empire from Starfleet, we look at Starfleet from the Klingon Empire. And it has been going on for decades, the Klingon Empire just can't go on. It's the Russians, basically. And they decide that they have to either die with a sword in their hands and go extinct, or change with the times and become something different. And Worf is the guy that says, "We have to change with the times, that is the mark of a warrior."

And so two things happen. They start letting other races into the Klingon world. And the only way they can do that is by letting in Starfleet officers. That's sort of the way it's done. 'We'll let in other people, but first Starfleet offers because we understand Starfleet. They're soldiers, we're soldiers.' The second thing they have to do is their resources are limited and dwindling, because the Klingon universe is just like the Federation. They have planets and worlds and societies that they own, but they do it in a brutal way. And so they have to go out to every one of these worlds and either give them their freedom, or try to work with them, which is something that's anathema to Klingons.

And since Worf opened his big mouth and said, "This is what we have to do," then they say, "Okay, then you're the guy that has to go out to all these worlds." And every world is different. Some worlds are rebelling. Some worlds want to be part of the Klingon Empire. Some worlds want to be independent. And so every episode is that.

So Worf is no longer part of Starfleet, but a member of the Klingon Defense Force? 

Exactly. This is the Klingon Empire. He's a captain aboard a ship.

The IKS Something.

Yeah, I forgot what it is. It's the Vortas or something. [laughs]

It probably has a random apostrophe in there.

[laughs] Exactly! The thing is, Worf is a character that has no fear. We have seen that over the years. I think Star Trek has always liked that about the Klingons. What I wrote, it's claustrophobic. It's Shakespearean in its scope. There's assassinations and coups and behind-the-scenes politics going on. It's such a great fit and it doesn't feel like anything else that's on All Access. It's funny because it's like they are looking for something and they've totally ignored this easy path. But we'll see what happens. I don't know if it's dead or not. I have the script ready. [laughs] It's on my computer and ready to be emailed to anybody that's interested. But we'll see. They have their own take on these things, and we'll leave it at that.


There's still Prodigy to come this year and Kate Mulgrew said she's about to start work on S2 of that.

And check out this shite promoting Paramount+, the rebranded CBS AA with Pike & Spock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCUUTUmLBKs
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Famous Mortimer on January 26, 2021, 02:25:57 PM
WHY DID YOU MAKE ME WATCH JAMES CORDEN
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: KennyMonster on January 29, 2021, 11:05:47 PM
Just seen the first episode.

Do all new animations have to have characters  shouting their lines  quickly whilst waving their limbs around like they're on The Muppets?

Does it substitute for talent and quality or something?

Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on January 29, 2021, 11:29:55 PM
Quote from: KennyMonster on January 29, 2021, 11:05:47 PM
Just seen the first episode.

Do all new animations have to have characters  shouting their lines  quickly whilst waving their limbs around like they're on The Muppets?

Does it substitute for talent and quality or something?



It's all a bit hyper for the first few but it calms down. It's really unnecessary and very annoying. As if kids aren't hyper enough that they need to have hyper shit to watch as well. I wonder would it work better at .75 speed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 09, 2021, 08:44:25 PM
This is back on Thursday and on Prime Video every Friday.

Loads of easter eggs and a few spoilers in the trailer from a couple of weeks back.

https://intl.startrek.com/videos/watch-star-trek-lower-decks-season-2-trailer
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: daf on August 09, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
I've only seen a few brief clips on youtube, but it looks like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on August 09, 2021, 09:28:09 PM
It kinda is. If the very idea of this show offends you, then there's not going to be much here for you. But (excepting The Orville) it's the closest thing we're ever going to get to a post-TNG/DS9/VOY show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on August 12, 2021, 08:51:26 PM
I stalled with the series just a couple of episodes in, but I decided to try the first episode of the new season.

And it's... tolerable to slightly good. I doubt I'll ever be completely happy with it as I hated the Orville until they removed a lot of the attempts at silly humour, but I might watch some more.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 12, 2021, 11:21:46 PM
I rewatched the first series the other day. Enjoyed it still but the last 3 episodes are far better than the rest.

Good start to the new series. I always find myself scanning the background of scenes for Easter eggs. The Pakleds & Klingons have been added to the Borg battle in the titles. The theme tune is brilliant. A proper Star Trek theme. DSC & Picard's themes are shite.

Looking forward to the rest of the series. I think Prodigy will be airing quite soon after this finishes as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 24, 2021, 12:15:05 AM
Ep 2 was great. Big dead Spock lending a helping hand.

Ep 3 is called
Spoiler alert
We'll Always Have Tom Paris
[close]
which is a big giveaway to the guest star although already spoiled in the trailer!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on August 24, 2021, 11:04:36 AM
It was a treasure-trove of references, people are still finding new ones. But at the same time, I rather want to ask "You done? Got it out of your system? Maybe start doing something new instead of continually harking back?" Of course, the next episode's title rather answers that question.

The Tom Riker thing has always fascinated me. It appears to suggest that either there is no such thing (in Trek) as a "soul" (the Vulcan katra notwithstanding), or it is wholly duplicatable by technological means.

Which brings me nicely to William Boimler.
Spoiler alert
I'm calling bullshit on this. It's a trick by the Pakleds or their as-yet-unknown sponsors. Of all the times and places for a unique transporter accident to re-occur, it happens in the presence of the previous victim? Who's therefore predisposed to feel sympathy and maybe not question it too much?

Plus the divergence between the two Boimlers is immediate and pronounced. Will and Tom were different by virtue of eight years of wildly divergent experiences. Within minutes, one Boimler is acting in a way completely different to how the single source Boimler was shortly before.

And sending one back to where he came, demoted? That makes no sense. Tom was a Lt. and stayed one and got a new posting at that grade. Both Boimlers were still Lt. jgs and should stay as that. It's a blatant and clumsy attempt to return to the series concept's status quo.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on August 24, 2021, 12:31:55 PM
Quote from: mothman on August 24, 2021, 11:04:36 AM
It was a treasure-trove of references, people are still finding new ones. But at the same time, I rather want to ask "You done? Got it out of your system? Maybe start doing something new instead of continually harking back?" Of course, the next episode's title rather answers that question.

Star Trek: Reference. Star Trek: Wallowing in Our own Crap. How can they be so intensely in thrall to the lore (not that one) of classic Trek while the other new CBS shows are so intensely contemptuous of it? It's the two main fanfic problems but there's millions of dollars involved. It's so strange.

The only Lower Decks I've seen (curiosity got the best of me) is the opening titles and a clip on YouTube of an encounter with Pakleds. The Pakled weapons seem to physically/mechanically assault the LD gang's ship rather than the usual laser/photon-type weapons (wasn't sure if that was supposed to be a joke or not) and at one point a character paraphrases Riker's "They're carving us up like a roast" from Q Who. They replaced "roast" with "salmon" or something. Again, I wasn't sure if it was a joke as such but it gave me a bit of a cringe.

Why is it called Lower Decks anyway? What I saw just seemed to be a bridge crew.

I'll say one thing: it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. It seemed to be tonally a bit truer to Star Trek than the other new CBS shows and it wasn't overly manic/hypercharged/shrill like Rick and Morty in the way I'd assumed/dreaded it would be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on August 24, 2021, 12:39:32 PM
Don't get me wrong,[nb]Though the above bit you quoted, and the Chief O'Brien gag I ranted about a few pages/months back, might give a different impression.[/nb] I do enjoy it, but sometimes all the in-jokes are a bit much.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on August 24, 2021, 12:45:06 PM
Quote from: mothman on August 24, 2021, 12:39:32 PM
Don't get me wrong,[nb]Though the above bit you quoted, and the Chief O'Brien gag I ranted about a few pages/months back, might give a different impression.[/nb] I do enjoy it, but sometimes all the in-jokes are a bit much.

That Chief O'Brien thing sent me spiraling! I wondered how any Family Guy-style cutaway gags can be canon? Are they? Who knows. And if they're not, then is the rest of it?

It's nitty gritty, I suppose, but I feel bad for those hardcore fans who wonder if the suddenly-visible labels on TOS bridge consoles post-remastering are canon. That kind of Talmudic scholarship is kinda lovely but not compatible with a show that contains scenes like the Chief O'Brien bit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: MojoJojo on August 25, 2021, 09:00:01 AM
On teleporter accidents.

Quote from: mothman on August 24, 2021, 11:04:36 AM
Which brings me nicely to William Boimler.
Spoiler alert
I'm calling bullshit on this. It's a trick by the Pakleds or their as-yet-unknown sponsors. Of all the times and places for a unique transporter accident to re-occur, it happens in the presence of the previous victim? Who's therefore predisposed to feel sympathy and maybe not question it too much?
[close]

That's setup in episode and isn't a coincidence.
Spoiler alert
they're talking about riker as he is their captain. Boimler is inspired by Riker's teleporter accident, and does something related to it to get them out, so it somehow making a clone when it goes a bit wrong makes sense. It's also implied that teleporter clones are a thing, and something similar happened to Kirk.

Although not teleported Boimler escaping is weird, along with instant personality change. I can't remember which Boimler it was (teleporter or escape pod) whose personality changed.

So yeah, maybe a trick.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on August 25, 2021, 10:00:49 PM
Spoiler alert
The Kirk transporter cloning was in "The Enemy Within" and was more of a transporter splitting, with good and evil Kirks. Which could explain the divergence in the Boimlers' personalities. But if that's the way they're going then
[close]
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, again, TRY DOING SOMETHING THE FUCK NEW FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.

Spoiler alert
It just felt to me really weird and clunky that they'd mention that specific incident - Riker's transporter cloning - just before something similar happened. It's either very lazy writing, or a masterful fake-out. After all, HOW did the second Boimler escape so easily on that shuttle?
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on August 26, 2021, 09:06:23 AM
Thought episode 3 was ok.

Would like to have seen a bit more of
Spoiler alert
Tom Paris
[close]
. Best laugh was him shouting
Spoiler alert
Kazon! When Boimler fell into the bridge with his wild hair.
[close]
.

I knew that
Spoiler alert
Shaxs was coming back somehow as he was just barely visible in the second trailer. Glad he's back as he was a big highlight of the first series.
[close]

Lighter on references this week but nice to know
Spoiler alert
Vic Fontaine has branched out. Quarks bar count - 3!
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on August 27, 2021, 06:01:59 PM
A diverting episode but when you start to think about it, familiar problems crop up.

Let's do the obvious one here. Why was Tom Paris in this? What did he bring? There was no character development for him, no sense of what he's been up to since VOY (!) returned home. He's even still the same rank. RDM these days is mainly a director for TV, hard to see what would attract him back to acting for a near-cameo (apart from getting in with the producers for the chance of directing DSC/PIC/SNW). It's like they thought of the episode title and then had to come up with a plot for it...

The Boimler story. Fine so far as it goes, I guess.

Rutherford/Shax. They were obviously trying to emulate the Sherlock death theories, and then not really explain how Shax is alive at all. But then they tried to be clever and make it all this "Bridge crew" (the "main cast") thing that the Ensigns aren't privy to. But in a really overdone way that doesn't match our (the viewers) perceptions of how/why the "heroes" always survive or return from the dead. The... Black Mountain or something? Fuck off. Maybe they are being really clever but I just don't see it...

Lastly, Mariner/Tendi. I like them exploring what it means to be an Orion in Starfleet. A welcome team up - the problem is, they massively lampshade that this is a pairing that's not been done before. It's another "explaining the Klingon Forehead Problem" ep. But it doesn't explain WHY they've never paired these two before. Could they not think of anything for them to do before that isn't all meta and "hey, let's put these two together, not tried that before?"

I'm starting to feel they're running out of ideas. Earlier upthread I posed a theory about the Boimler cloning. I'm now wondering if I'm giving them too much credit...
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: MojoJojo on August 28, 2021, 11:08:30 AM
I think Tom Paris was fine, he was a McGuffin for Boimler to get excited about. Has Tom Paris ever had any character development, beyond turning into a salamander?

The Mariner/Tendi was annoyingly Rick and Morty like. Thankfully it stopped. I didn't realise Orions were a thing but it didn't seem to matter much.

I think my main problem was that there were 3 plots, and only Mariner/Tendi really had any substance.

This gives the impression I didn't like it, but really it moves along quickly enough, and has enough gags, that these issues don't matter and its a fun watch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: petril on August 28, 2021, 12:52:14 PM
Quote from: MojoJojo on August 28, 2021, 11:08:30 AM
I think Tom Paris was fine, he was a McGuffin for Boimler to get excited about. Has Tom Paris ever had any character development, beyond turning into a salamander?

I suppose most of his character development was when they created Tom Paris instead of using Nick Locarno (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Nicholas_Locarno) from that TNG episode
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mister Six on August 29, 2021, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: mothman on August 27, 2021, 06:01:59 PMRDM these days is mainly a director for TV, hard to see what would attract him back to acting for a near-cameo (apart from getting in with the producers for the chance of directing DSC/PIC/SNW).

Getting an easy few grand for an afternoon's work during a pandemic that's shut down most/all live-action TV production?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:20:35 PM
Saw a lot of negativity online about last weeks Mugato threesome and horn rubbing. To quote The Shat, "Get a life". It was an OK episode but this weeks was really good. All through the episode trying to place the voice of the Dooplers and then the credits rolled and Richard Kind's name came up!

Of course it was!

And
QuoteShelby made an appearance, now a captain.

It was just a really fun episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on September 10, 2021, 02:39:59 PM
This season, so far, has been quite pleasant. I won't nitpick on details about the wider Star Trek lore, but they've managed to show in a better way Mariner's flaws, while she was too much of a badass in the first season. This way, the relationships between characters have been much more balanced.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 10, 2021, 03:09:54 PM
I didn't realise at the time but Okona was the DJ at the party. I wonder if he'll lose an eye in Prodigy and get the eye patch he had.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on September 18, 2021, 02:06:02 AM
Has to be said, this week's episode was pretty good. Actual Star Trek. Trek references keep to a minimum, four distinct plot lines that rarely intersected but complemented each other. One review questioned the use of Armus, a murdering monster, as a punchline, but what the heck, anything that makes his eternal isolation worse is a bonus!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 18, 2021, 03:48:58 AM
Quote from: mothman on September 18, 2021, 02:06:02 AM
Has to be said, this week's episode was pretty good. Actual Star Trek. Trek references keep to a minimum, four distinct plot lines that rarely intersected but complemented each other. One review questioned the use of Armus, a murdering monster, as a punchline, but what the heck, anything that makes his eternal isolation worse is a bonus!

The ending with Armus was great I thought. I love that the show has chosen the Pakleds as the main villain, especially as they're mostly voiced by Rich Fulcher! Pakled Planet as the name of the home world was fitting. Stupid but dangerous!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Chairman Yang on September 21, 2021, 08:50:09 PM
This is actually pretty watchable when people aren't shouting or hitting each other.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Chairman Yang on September 21, 2021, 09:07:31 PM
OK, they've worked their way up to a chuckle with
Spoiler alert
the Pakled spy tumbling past the window
[close]
. Good job, show!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on September 22, 2021, 09:09:22 AM
I really like the friendship between Boimler and Mariner and between Tendi and Rutherford. It's refreshing how the program doesn't have its main characters fall for each other and just focuses on their friendship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 22, 2021, 09:56:50 AM
The bit at the end of the latest episode with the prank call made me properly laugh. I wouldn't say it's a show I can work up much enthusiasm for otherwise.

And the writers need to be told that just shoehorning the name of a famous Star Trek episode into dialogue isn't funny. I'm not sure it even qualifies as a joke.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on September 22, 2021, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: mothman on September 18, 2021, 02:06:02 AM
Has to be said, this week's episode was pretty good. Actual Star Trek. Trek references keep to a minimum, four distinct plot lines that rarely intersected but complemented each other. One review questioned the use of Armus, a murdering monster, as a punchline, but what the heck, anything that makes his eternal isolation worse is a bonus!

Guys! I did it! I overcame my reflex to throw up all over myself whenever new-Trek is on and watched an episode of Lower Decks. This one. Based on mothman and malky's positivity. Verdict:

Positive:

Amazingly, I was not offended as a Star Trek fan. I wouldn't go so far as saying "Actual Star Trek," but it certainly seems to have kinder thoughts toward the source material. It seems to know Star Trek in terms of what it's about and seems to have a good general encyclopedic knowledge of Trek bits and bobs.

Also amazingly, it was nowhere near as manic and shouty as I'd expected. Though it was still a bit shouty. Or maybe just 'keen'. But yeah, tonally more pleasant than I thought it would be.

Neutral [Zone]:

I like that the Pakleds are a lead villain in this show, but I don't love Fulcher's voice for them. I'd have thought I would have liked it and would have loved the news that he'd been cast, but it sounds like he's really phoning it in to me. Just a generic thicko voice. Could be better. Fun idea though. The "big helmet" stuff pales in comparison to his chosen one/"I'm a big 'un" stuff in The Mighty Boosh. This is probably an unfair comparison but I felt sad to hear Fulcher's voice with so little mischief in it. It probably tells us something about the production side of this show: it wasn't made in a creative atmosphere of joy; it's just professionals doing what they've been told to do by other professionals. Which is fine, I guess. But hard to get excited about. Neutral.

I thought I would hate the animation style but I didn't. I can't say I loved the digital sliding around of the starships or the slightly dead-eyed (okay, wide-eyed) character designs, but it was nowhere near as as bad as I'd grumpily imagined and I can accept that this is just the style of the moment. I like the queerness of the haircuts and that.

I didn't understand the main characters, but to be fair I was only coming into this series at a very random episode and hadn't been watching since the beginning. I got that the green Orion girl is a "keener" and that's the joke there (same joke as Tilly on Disco, I think, but I'm not an expert on either show). I didn't know what the other characters were about; they just struck me as line-delivery machines. Nobody struck me as having a recognisable silhouette or a particular thing going on. I can't be too harsh here because I have only seen one episode.

Negative:

I'm sorry, but it just wasn't funny. At all. The one slight raising of the corners of my mouth came from this very moment:

Quote from: Chairman Yang on September 21, 2021, 09:07:31 PM
OK, they've worked their way up to a chuckle with
Spoiler alert
the Pakled spy tumbling past the window
[close]
. Good job, show!

The timing of that moment was funny. Everything else about that
Spoiler alert
Pakled mistaking an airlock for a toilet was exceptionally weak sauce
[close]
.

Quite often, I was unsure if a joke was supposed to be a joke at all. Turning into a giant scorpion might be a joke if it's unusual in the world of the show but it's not particularly unusual in Star Trek; people get transformed into weird shit all the time and it's usually played for mystery or horror. I'm honestly not sure if it was supposed to be a joke or not. The music and attitude suggested it was a joke, but I honestly couldn't tell where the funny was supposed to be. Does that character have a particular relationship with scorpions or something, like Anya in Buffy with rabbits? Or was it really just completely hollow and not about anything?

They don't seem to understand juxtaposition. It can never be inherently funny that someone is incompetent or low-level if everyone else around them is incompetent or low-level too. Rimmer and Lister being chicken soup machine repairmen on Red Dwarf is funny because (a) it's an unlikely focus for a sci-fi show, and (b) they are surrounded by competent officers who know their stuff. Our central characters on Lower Decks are supposed to be junior and/or inexpert or silly compared to the upper-decks A-team on the bridge, but those characters seem to be useless and silly too. I think the USS Cerritos is supposed to be a shitty ship compared to the Enterprise, right? But then that should be the juxtapositional joke rather than the lower decks/upper decks divide, I would think. And just call it Star Trek: Cerritos, no? A show about one of the ships you don't usually hear about in the mainline/flagship Trek shows. If you want it to be about a lower decks crew, set it on the Enterprise or the Discovery. This all just smacks of too many cooks and not enough of a vision.

I can't see how it's intended for adults at all. The tone is like a kid's show. Nothing wrong with kid's shows but this is specifically sold as an adult animated comedy. We know what those are like because we watch The Simpsons and Futurama and Family Guy and Bob's Burgers and all the rest of them. Yes Lower Decks is a different show to those and can do its own thing but those examples are all different to each other and doing their own thing too, only without leaving doubt about what sort of show it's supposed to be. What I saw of Lower Decks is far too tame and simple to be for adults. It really feels like it belongs on Nickelodeon (no shade on Nicktoons at all) and I can't imagine how Prodigy will be any more compatible for kids than this.

Conclusion!

I know I'm moaning a bit here, but it being unfunny or (inadvertently?) for kids are not overly troubling as problems go. Star Trek isn't supposed to be particularly funny (on its own terms) or grown-up, so the rot is not to the core like it is with Discovery and Picard. It is not grim or melodramatic or senseless or incoherent or hostile to the source material. So (after seeing just one episode, of course, which might be unfair) Lower Decks gets a C+ from me and places 10th in my Trek rank (beneath all classic series, beneath the Kelvin films, above the rest of CBS Trek).

Burp!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on September 22, 2021, 11:09:22 AM
Yeah it wasn't hugely funny this week, more enjoyable than funny. It's worth watching it from the start. Especially the last 3 episodes of the first series which I thought were really strong. I'm just happy to have a new Trek show that isn't miserable!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on September 22, 2021, 11:16:35 AM
Quote from: Malcy on September 22, 2021, 11:09:22 AM
Yeah it wasn't hugely funny this week, more enjoyable than funny. It's worth watching it from the start. Especially the last 3 episodes of the first series which I thought were really strong. I'm just happy to have a new Trek show that isn't miserable!

I'll drink to that!

I saw you liked the Dooplers. I almost watched that one but didn't in the end. Isn't it just Tribbles + Meseeks?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Chairman Yang on September 22, 2021, 01:37:11 PM
It took the cat doctor trying to say fuck before I remembered this was supposed to be a Modern Adult Cartoons. I guess on those terms this episode is a massive failure then because it was quite lighthearted and silly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: MojoJojo on September 22, 2021, 03:08:44 PM
Glad you didn't hate it Mobbd. I agree it's not massively funny, just light hearted cosiness.

The show has basically moved away pretty rapidly from "Lower Decks" premise, which sort of answers the stuff about juxtaposition. It is basically just a bunch of characters who get teamed up into different groups for the A/B plots. It's probably not surprising that there isn't that much mileage in the Lower Decks concept, which is why most shows only do it as a one off. But it does exist at the beginning of season one. Which is probably when the show was weakest.

As to it being childish- meh, there are some sex toy references, occasional swearing and stuff. But yeah, it could probably be retooled into a kids show pretty easily. But then you could say the same about TNG, which I watched as a child. But, meh, I'm currently watching the She-ra reboot so might not be the best person to comment.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Poobum on September 24, 2021, 01:56:54 PM
Really enjoyed the last episode, two good Star-Trek stories with a nice bit of silliness. Always great to have some Jeffrey Coombs as well. Definitely feel that the show is finding its feet and the characters are growing, with everything a bit dialed back, less being more. Wonder if it has more freedom to be an actual Star-Trek show because it was never expected to do anything so was left to its own devices.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: MojoJojo on September 25, 2021, 11:05:13 AM
Yes, good episode. Like the Orville, feels like the comedy is less important than it being light hearted star trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on September 25, 2021, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: MojoJojo on September 25, 2021, 11:05:13 AM
Yes, good episode. Like the Orville, feels like the comedy is less important than it being light hearted star trek.

That sounds like the way forward to me. (Should have been built in at the start really but mustn't grumble).
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 01, 2021, 06:59:46 PM
Enjoyed last weeks. Great to have Jeffrey Combs appearing again.

This week's episode I thought was very funny. Definitely one of my favourite episodes so far. Probably the episode I've had the best laughs from too. Been a lot of TAS references recently. Recognised the species of the drill instructor or whatever she was straight away.

Only 2 episodes left. I reckon there must be another big cameo to come. Have had a couple this time round.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 01, 2021, 08:05:21 PM
Again, a great episode that managed to use, parody and celebrate Trek lore in an organic, unforced way. Impressive to get Alice Krige back
Spoiler alert
but you'd think the producers would be more joined-up and bring in the new actress playing the Borg Queen in PIC
[close]
.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 01, 2021, 08:14:08 PM
Quote from: mothman on October 01, 2021, 08:05:21 PM
Again, a great episode that managed to use, parody and celebrate Trek lore in an organic, unforced way. Impressive to get Alice Krige back
Spoiler alert
but you'd think the producers would be more joined-up and bring in the new actress playing the Borg Queen in PIC
[close]
.

See that's what I thought had happened and was then surprised by her appearance in the credits.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Poobum on October 01, 2021, 08:57:41 PM
Had a very childish laughing fit from the split second of Boimler showing off his arsehole, unexpected to say the least.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on October 02, 2021, 12:05:30 AM
The whole concept of "naked time" (or "naked now") where people lose all their sexual inhibitions is necessarily at odds with what an essentially PG show Star Trek was, despite Gene Roddenberry's attempts at enacting his fantasies pushing the envelope. So, it's very refreshing to brutally see what it would actually be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 02, 2021, 12:19:15 PM
Yes, it's interesting that in neither the 1966 nor 1987 iteration was there much loosening of sexual inhibitions. Nurse Chapel just fancied Spock a bit more overtly. Lt. Yar did shag a robot, but she got killed off soon after so balance was restored (female sexual promiscuity must always be rewarded with death, them's the rules).
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on October 09, 2021, 09:20:39 PM
Another fine episode, that started with a gimmick, then resulted into something satisfying and a likely addition to the cast. Biggest laugh for me was Shaxs being asked about life on Bajor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 09, 2021, 09:38:35 PM
Yeah it was great. Lots to enjoy in it. The Bird Of Prey looked great animated. Red Alarm, the credits scene, the Vulcan stuff was really good, Shaxs being Shaxs. Last one next week which is a shame.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 09, 2021, 09:39:21 PM
And the Borg at the end were perfect. Plus, it's reminded me of something that I hope isn't a Mandela Effect moment - fairly sure at one point I had a Borg screensaver which gradually assimilated your desktop. The background sounds during the end credits took me right back to that.

Meanwhile, the Discovery s4 trailer has dropped, plus release date (18 November, so I guess 19 November on Netflix). Don't know if there's a thread for it already. Maybe I'll start one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on October 09, 2021, 10:48:24 PM
Quote from: mothman on October 09, 2021, 09:39:21 PMso I guess 19 November on Netflix).

When is International Men's Day?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 09, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
April 31st.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on October 10, 2021, 04:13:31 PM
Really enjoyed that episode. It works best when they keep away from breaking the fourth wall. Plus I liked the music riffs from Wrath of Khan.

It made me feel like they are missing a trick in not having an animated non-comedy anthology show doing new adventures for TOS, TNG and the rest.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Mobbd on October 10, 2021, 06:32:30 PM
Quote from: Alberon on October 10, 2021, 04:13:31 PM
It made me feel like they are missing a trick in not having an animated non-comedy anthology show doing new adventures for TOS, TNG and the rest.

Same here. Maybe it will eventually find the confidence to move in that direction? I would prefer something like Avatar: The Last Airbender (also a Nic Toon). Animated but not trivial. I'm trying to keep an open mind but Trek to me should only be inadvertently funny!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on October 10, 2021, 06:45:25 PM
Trek can do comedy episodes, see the Tribble episodes for instance, but it has to be approached differently than Lower Decks mostly does it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Malcy on October 14, 2021, 10:25:07 AM
Not the big scale finale I was expecting but still good.

Took me a minute to realise who
Spoiler alert
Captain Sonya Gomez was. First seen way back in 'Q Who'
[close]
. Rutherford's implant must be a spying device for whoever is behind the story bubbling away since the start. I like that it's just building in the background and not the sole focus of the show.

The Excelsior class was a nice mash up of the various designs, Cetacean Ops finally appears and Shaxs still get's some of the best lines. "I'll kill you"!

Edit - the Archimedes is an Obena class. Just inspired by the Excelsior.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: MojoJojo on October 17, 2021, 10:23:34 AM
Yeah, a nice little finish. The whole lower decks concept has gone completely out the window -
Spoiler alert
Tendi's been promoted to the bridge crew if I heard right
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 17, 2021, 12:54:25 PM
Quote from: MojoJojo on October 17, 2021, 10:23:34 AM
Yeah, a nice little finish. The whole lower decks concept has gone completely out the window -
Spoiler alert
Tendi's been promoted to the bridge crew if I heard right
[close]

Spoiler alert
Not necessarily, just "senior [?!] science officer training." And while that could involve shifts in the bridge - like Mariner and Boimler already do - they're all still ensigns and could just as likely be still found stacking hexagonal boxes or cleaning out the biofilters on the holodeck!
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Poobum on October 17, 2021, 06:40:06 PM
Absolutely loved that episode, a proper Star-Trek dilemma solved brilliantly and believably, with good tension. Absolutely passed me by about Captain Sonya Gomez though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 17, 2021, 07:12:52 PM
It was a season of two halves, Brian. The first part was characterised by an incredibly excessive amount of references to previous Trek lore. The second, some of the best proper-Trek episodes I've seen in a long time. Long may it continue; the gag at the end where Tendi likens herself to Jadzia Dax but the cat doctor not knowing who that is, that could be sending a message that the show will now try to exist on its own merits rather than piggybacking on what came before...
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on October 17, 2021, 07:20:35 PM
Looking forward to Series 3.

Why do some ships wear the First Contact style uniform with the dark blue shoulders and red/yellow/blue collar, and some ships wear the new style of uniform first seen (I think) on Lower Decks?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 17, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Nobody really knows. It seems to be something about differing missions or possibly reflects internal subdivisions within Starfleet.

There are some precedents:

- The DS9 uniform being worn on DS9 and on Voyager (and Equinox), while Starfleet Command still uses the TNG uniform (Sisko even changes to it when going back there; many visitors to DS9 also still wear the TNG).
- But then you have ST: Generations where you have TNG and DS9 uniforms being worn on the Enterprise, suggesting they're transitioning from one to the other.
- On DSC, you have the blue uniforms worn everywhere (including Starfleet Command) except on the Enterprise; Pike calls the coloured ones "the new uniforms".
- But in the Short Trek showing Spock's first day on the Enterprise, they have the "new uniforms" in what appears to be a significant continuity breach.
- When the "First Contact" uniform came in, it appears to have been adopted anywhere. But there is one odd exception: two men in the TNG uniform in the background of "Tears Of The Prophets," several years after the black/grey was introduced.

Here's one of them - Martok looks really annoyed about him being there, can't blame him really...

(https://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x26/tearsofthephrophets_138.jpg)

... and here's the other. "Check out this dunce," one Romulan appears to be saying.

(https://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x26/tearsofthephrophets_144.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Alberon on October 17, 2021, 07:57:37 PM
I've still to watch most of the first season as I found the first couple of episodes unwatchable, but the second season has slowly dragged me in. It seems to be following the same path as The Orville dropping the sillier humour for more realistic comedy (though not as realistic as the live action comedy episodes are like).

And yeah, towards the end of the run it has started to produce proper Trek episodes. Superior to what Discovery and Picard have managed. Both of the live action shows have been badly let down with poor writing and dismal characterisation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on October 17, 2021, 08:00:00 PM
My favourite uniform is the First Contact style grey and black.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 17, 2021, 08:12:47 PM
Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on October 17, 2021, 08:00:00 PM
My favourite uniform is the First Contact style grey and black.

Amen. You're not alone...

https://twitter.com/boomerniner/status/1449370294196621314
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: MojoJojo on October 18, 2021, 10:14:17 AM
Quote from: mothman on October 17, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Nobody really knows. It seems to be something about differing missions or possibly reflects internal subdivisions within Starfleet.

I sort of took it from "Kayshon, His Eyes Open" (the one where Boimler returns to the Cerritos) that they've brought the film and tv universes together, so we have the action packed all shooty action packed "film" part of starfleet, which the Titan is part of, then the more weird stuff "no one has gone before" "tv series" part of starfleet which the Cerritos is part of. With Boimler getting cloned and one of him going the film route and the other TV series (and such cloning accidents apparently being somewhat common place) it's even suggesting how we have the same apparent characters in both film and TV series.

I've not paid enough attention to see if the uniforms clearly delineate between Star Fleet (film) an Star Fleet (TV). I hope I'm right though, I think that would be quite tidy.

(This probably works best for TNG era trek, where the feel of the films and the series were very different (e.g. action hero Picard - I can't remember TOS well enough to think whether it applies there as well).
Title: Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks
Post by: mothman on October 18, 2021, 03:43:49 PM
LDS is the clearest indication yet that there is a differing mission for different parts of Starfleet. The California-class ships are meant to represent this second-tier part of the organisation that does all the scutwork, and their uniform reflects that, being a sort of enhanced TNG design when the main parts of the Fleet have upgraded to the black and grey.

Given the black and grey appears to have been superseded by the early/flashback PIC uniform - https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet_uniform_(mid_2380s) - by 2385, it'll be interesting to see if that appears on LDS as well.