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Forums => Picture Box => Topic started by: Malcy on June 16, 2021, 06:50:29 PM

Title: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on June 16, 2021, 06:50:29 PM
New trailer with a first look at the big returnee!

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1405204911768342530

And the first trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhsx-loE4Zw

This could be good but not holding my breath. Have seen a few filming pics that suggested an alternate timeline.
Spoiler alert
Like Seven on a bus.
[close]

(https://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/pic-s2-keyart-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on June 16, 2021, 07:07:54 PM
PICARD HAS A ROBOT COCK
PICARD HAS A ROBOT ANUS
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on June 16, 2021, 07:11:47 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on June 16, 2021, 07:07:54 PM
PICARD HAS A ROBOT COCK
PICARD HAS A ROBOT ANUS

Shit, forgot about that. I reckon Q will sort him out because the fans kicked up a stink, i mean because he's nice like that. (Couldn't figure out how to do that line through text thing).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on June 16, 2021, 07:58:34 PM
If he doesn't hug Q, I won't watch the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on June 16, 2021, 09:08:10 PM
All Secret Hideout Trek can fuck off.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on June 16, 2021, 09:38:54 PM
"I've always loved you Q, despite what I said earlier"

I hope Q (as played by Malcolm McDowell) turns Picard back to normal but leaves his robot cock and then Picard goes on adventures with his robot cock throughout the galaxy. The first episode is called Robot Qock.

The Klingons are about to go to war with the Cardassians but then Picard steps up in the centre of the negotiating table and unsheathes his robot cock. Both sides set aside their differences and marvel at his robot cock. 

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on June 16, 2021, 09:52:00 PM
The poster reminded me of an animated teaser poster for True Detective season 2. That I can't now find. But what I did find, oddly, was a promotional poster that looks rather like it has the Starfleet delta on it...

(https://resizing.flixster.com/q7zmiRrKDSsw7_CWA9tJMmdzz2s=/206x305/v1.dDsxNTQ5MTk7ajsxODgxMTsxMjAwOzM5NDs2MDA)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on June 16, 2021, 10:20:37 PM
TIME HAS BEEN BROKEN

Not feeling a shred of optimism for this, honestly, the first season of Picard was outright atrocious. Couldn't stomach Discovery season three at all, either, but this might be worth a shot just to see if they can top their previous glory of incest Romulans and Bruce Maddox's organs exploding.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on June 16, 2021, 11:25:47 PM
I always enjoy Q, even when he's in a rubbish story, so will probably watch this. Alternate timelines are also a favourite idea of mine, but there's such a paucity of imagination in the writing of the new Treks that I doubt they'll do anything good with it. Just wish we could eject the new characters and focus on Q, Picard & Seven.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on June 16, 2021, 11:30:52 PM
The first season started well, but the embarrassing shitshow of a resolution ruined everything.

No enthusiasm for this, even with Q. Though, unlike Discovery, I will give it a go.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on June 17, 2021, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: Lemming on June 16, 2021, 10:20:37 PM
TIME HAS BEEN BROKEN

Sounds like the tag line for a shit Doctor Who finale.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on June 18, 2021, 12:33:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/s3FHyOe.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on June 18, 2021, 04:36:33 PM
I accidentally signed up for the free month of Amazon Prime, so I've just watched the first series this week. It is rather naff, but I'd be lying if I said the TNG cameos didn't get to me a bit.

Maybe I'm more horrible than I realised, but
Spoiler alert
before Starfleet turned up in the nick of time
[close]
I was almost rooting for the Romulans
Spoiler alert
to bomb the shit out of the Synths. I know the robots were facing extinction, but instigating pangalactic genocide as a response is going a bit too far
[close]
. Data would have had none of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on June 19, 2021, 11:57:24 AM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on June 16, 2021, 07:58:34 PM
If he doesn't hug Q, I won't watch the rest of the series.
He told Data how wonderful it was to see his strange beautiful face.

He'll hug Q.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 09, 2021, 05:40:36 PM
New trailer up, and it's generic shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEC1FIGqXQ

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 09, 2021, 04:41:41 PM
The new Picard S2 trailer has just come it. It looks fucking shit. 7 of 9 driving an SUV for fuck's sake.

Quote from: Mobbd on September 09, 2021, 05:16:55 PM
Wow, that's significantly worse than even I'd imagined and my expectations were in dog pops territory. Holy shit. That's almost impressive.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 05:53:57 PM
So something changes in the past which basically turns the Federation into a version of the Terran Empire (I saw the fucking symbol)? So that's two Star Trek tropes that are overplayed to shit straight off the bat - Time Travel and the Mirror fucking Universe[nb]Even though it won't technically be the Mirror Universe, it'll be just something exactly like it. Unless this is the creation of the Mirror Universe we see in this episode.[/nb].

And they go back to a setting contemporary to real life. Presumably not for just an episode, which has been done, and can be good, see Future's End, but for a significant portion of the series. That's what I want to watch Star Trek for, to see Picard and Seven as fugitives from 21st century justice. Yeah. Just file the serial numbers off and write an original series, please.

If they manage to make this not be shit, then fair play to them.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Endicott on September 09, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
They won't manage that. I hate prejudging these things, but unfortunately I've seen Picard S1.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:03:07 PM
It looks fucking awful. Why do they need the Borg Queen to time travel? Why does the Romulan elf have a really weird haircut? Why is Kurtzman still in charge and been given a 5 year extension?

I got up early to check everything out from yesterday's event and it was a huge letdown.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:07:34 PM
Season 1 had potential, but the showrunners (Sir Patrick included, btw) just let their need to show how fucking edgy and dark they were ruin it.

This though... like I get Sir Pat's heart in the right place in terms of his politics, and I'm certainly not going to be one of these absolute cretins that demands that their entertainment be 'non-political'. But Star Trek could make it's social and political points and relate the issue of the episode to the real world, without feeling the need have it's characters literally break the fourth wall into the real world to prevent the emergence of a fascist dictatorship. Which is what this looks like it's going to be.

Maybe it'll subvert all my expectations. I certainly hope it does.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 06:08:38 PM

*Mr. Plinkett voice* "Oohh nooo".
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 06:17:36 PM
PICARD IS DEAD

It would be good if they stop all of the xenophobia from the past. Otherwise who knows where it will lead us. We could end up with huge swathes of the populace in bordered off slums by the mid-2020s. We could even end up with a new Hitler leading humanity to World War III. Hopefully Picbot manages to stop that dark future!

Memorable Quotes from Season 2:
Picbot: Q, I am so sick of your bullshit. Fuck off you overpowered cunt.
7 of 9: I did want to kill myself but now I have murdered some people I feel much better. Where is the booze lads? Whey heeeeeey!

Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:07:34 PM
This though... like I get Sir Pat's heart in the right place in terms of his politics, and I'm certainly not going to be one of these absolute cretins that demands that their entertainment be 'non-political'. But Star Trek could make it's social and political points and relate the issue of the episode to the real world, without feeling the need have it's characters literally break the fourth wall into the real world to prevent the emergence of a fascist dictatorship. Which is what this looks like it's going to be.

The politics of Season 1 were some of the most offensive and idiotic shit I have ever seen. In the end the xenophobic group manipulating events turned out to be right and those bad androids (foreigners) turned out to be destined to kill us all (using a big robot octopus).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 09, 2021, 06:19:02 PM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 06:08:38 PM
*Mr. Plinkett voice* "Oohh nooo".

So true! The rising dread.

"Oh, no-no-no-no-no."

I already planned to forgo this because I have been fooled too many times; and even though I read on Ex Astris Scientia that Disco is on something of a continuity tour now in an attempt to set things right, I realised that there's just no goodwill left in me and I won't be insulted again. But this -- this fucking trailer -- is lower than anything I imagined. Fucking hell.

One of the credits I'd give to Picard is that at least it's post-Voyager and not another prequel. It expands the painting (even if the new parts of the painting are utterly repulsive). So let's wreck that one straw a fan can clutch by going back in time now! Why not?

And the Mirror Universe again? Seriously? What is with this obsession? It was SHIT in Discovery, so let's have another dollop.

Still, maybe they'll learn something about timelines and stick Discovery in its own one.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:24:26 PM
Okay but what if they go back in time to the 21st century and it's our 21st century. Like what if the Q-altered dystopian timeline (you know Q did it, right, to fuck with Picard) starts out like our 21st century. No Eugenics Wars/WWIII/post-atomic horror, just end stage capitalism and rampant imperialism extending itself into space while the planet burns and the workers die or are replaced by machines. Imagine if they had the balls to do that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:25:01 PM
The extremely Irish Tal'Shiar Romulan is back. Hopefully some timeline shenanigans wipes her from existence. And why was there still no sight of Guinan? Goldberg was the first to be announced for it even over the regular cast from S1!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:29:05 PM
Quote from: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:25:01 PM
The extremely Irish Tal'Shiar Romulan is back. Hopefully some timeline shenanigans wipes her from existence.
heaven forbid any ESL speaker not have a British or American accent
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:29:05 PM
heaven forbid any ESL speaker not have a British or American accent

It's not that, it was the Irish slang she used. Made no sense whatsoever. Saved by Picard after saving his life and taken to France. Touchy.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:43:23 PM
Quote from: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
It's not that, it was the Irish slang she used. Made no sense whatsoever. Saved by Picard after saving his life and taken to France. Touchy.
yeah this is the kind of nitpicking shite that makes me not want to talk to other Trek fans. Did you notice how very very incredibly British Picard is or is that okay because you saw TNG first and therefore it's sacred and holy?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:43:23 PM
yeah this is the kind of nitpicking shite that makes me not want to talk to other Trek fans. Did you notice how very very incredibly British Picard is or is that okay because you saw TNG first and therefore it's sacred and holy?

Suggest you don't then.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:50:40 PM
Quote from: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
It's not that, it was the Irish slang she used. Made no sense whatsoever. Saved by Picard after saving his life and taken to France. Touchy.

She's ex-Tal Shiar. Maybe there's a Federation installation worth infiltrating in Ireland and at some point she was stationed there well before the destruction of the Romulan homeworld or meeting Picard. Romulans and Vulcans live for ages, she could easily be 100 years old. Does it really matter anyway? Being super serious, everyone in Star Trek should speak a different version of English to anything that exists currently due to nearly 400 years of the language evolving.

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:24:26 PM
Okay but what if they go back in time to the 21st century and it's our 21st century. Like what if the Q-altered dystopian timeline (you know Q did it, right, to fuck with Picard) starts out like our 21st century. No Eugenics Wars/WWIII/post-atomic horror, just end stage capitalism and rampant imperialism extending itself into space while the planet burns and the workers die or are replaced by machines. Imagine if they had the balls to do that.

Maybe that's what they will do. The "bad" future is actually the one we're going to irl and they have to restore the future where 600 million people die in WWIII cos it's the better one long term. I'm struggling to see how it'll end up as anything but painful to watch though. I didn't like when Enterprise hammered the War on Terror similarities in season 3 right into our eyes and ears with suicide bombers and Trip going on about 'none of the non interference crap' in case watching Archer look for WMDs might be too subtle otherwise. This looks like it could be on the same level.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:57:46 PM
You know Geordi's from Africa, right? So why does he sound American? How come Worf doesn't sound Russian? What's Deanna's accent supposed to be? How come Lwaxana doesn't have one?

I'm not here to claim Picard is perfect. I enjoyed it overall but it really came off the rails at the end and Droid!Picard feels like a cynical way to ensure they can keep making it if anything happens to Patrick Stewart. It's not a recast, we put his brain in a new body. I was also disappointed to see them time-travelling to the 21st century. (Then again, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is beloved by the fandom.) But this fucking picking on stupid shit, like a Romulan sounds Irish and that's SO IMMERSION-BREAKING, she should sound different, it's hard not to picture the stereotypical Star Trek fan when I read it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:50:40 PM
Maybe that's what they will do. The "bad" future is actually the one we're going to irl and they have to restore the future where 600 million people die in WWIII cos it's the better one long term. I'm struggling to see how it'll end up as anything but painful to watch though. I didn't like when Enterprise hammered the War on Terror similarities in season 3 right into our eyes and ears with suicide bombers and Trip going on about 'none of the non interference crap' in case watching Archer look for WMDs might be too subtle otherwise. This looks like it could be on the same level.
I would like to be able to watch that story and enjoy the moral dilemma as something purely based in the Star Trek universe but it'll be tough not to read it as "nuclear annihilation would be better than the present 21st century". I'm imagining Picard trying to find a third choice even though that will erase a ton of history.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 07:08:03 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:05:44 PM
I would like to be able to watch that story and enjoy the moral dilemma as something purely based in the Star Trek universe but it'll be tough not to read it as "nuclear annihilation would be better than the present 21st century". I'm imagining Picard trying to find a third choice even though that will erase a ton of history.

Or if he ended up in a situation where he's presented with a 3rd choice that on the surface appears superior, but ends up not taking it because he just can't be sure enough about how it works out in the long term and allows WWIII to happen again.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:13:03 PM
I doubt they will acknowledge WWIII, Phillip Green (future Hitler) or Terra Prime.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:13:03 PM
I doubt they will acknowledge WWIII, Phillip Green (future Hitler) or Terra Prime.
They'd have to acknowledge World War III. People who watch this watched First Contact. Never heard of Phillip Green.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
They'd have to acknowledge World War III. People who watch this watched First Contact. Never heard of Phillip Green.

Future Hitler (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Phillip_Green) from TOS and Enterprise.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 07:22:35 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:13:03 PM
I doubt they will acknowledge WWIII, Phillip Green (future Hitler) or Terra Prime.

Presuming the setting is the 2020s, it'll be too early for Green who I think was supposed to be post WWIII (so 2050s). They haven't really had a problem pulling names and concepts from classic Trek for NuTrek, wouldn't surprise me if they did mention WWIII and the possible build up to it beginning here etc. But at the same time, maybe we are in Eugenics Wars territory with WWIII, as it's only supposed to be 30 years up the road from when the episode is broadcast. So they may decide to only make passing references at best.

Although a nuclear war being only 30 years away is less fanciful than intergalactic travel being only 30 years away as was depicted in Space Seed coming out in the 60s. Speaking of which, I suspect they will skim over or ignore the Eugenics Wars, seeing as they weren't mentioned in Future's End which was set in 1996, the same year Khan got blasted into space.

What should be going on now are the Sanctuary Districts and the build up to the Bell Riots.

Apologies for the ramble. That post is most unfocussed.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:32:13 PM
Oh I don't expect Colonel Green to show up. He is likely a teenager as of 2021. But any future which they stop comes at the price of enabling another. I don't think they will acknowledge the fact that them rescuing the future is them setting up mass murderers or devastating world wars.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on September 09, 2021, 07:40:15 PM
Laughed throughout the trailer - HITLER PICARD - but, you know what, it looks potentially a lot better than the first season, which was just amazingly shit. All the actors proved they were up to the task in S1[nb]with the possible exception of Romulan Samurai Guy, but to be fair to the actor, there was literally no way to make that work, so it's not a fair test of his abilities[/nb], even if the material they were given was abominable, so things like the Seven/Raffi teamup could be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 09, 2021, 08:04:33 PM
We can't have a dark alternate Picard story without referencing Mirror Universe daddy Picard, surely

(https://imgur.com/HAcNov2.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 09, 2021, 08:18:25 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:57:46 PM
You know Geordi's from Africa, right? So why does he sound American? How come Worf doesn't sound Russian? What's Deanna's accent supposed to be? How come Lwaxana doesn't have one?

O'Brien is from the Home Counties, he diddled with the Universal Translator to give him that accent. It was either that or Mockney Wankhar.

I want a Scouser on the bridge.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Blumf on September 09, 2021, 08:18:25 PM

I want a Scouser on the bridge.

That makes it sound like they have to announce it when one turns up, like when the Captain arrives and they have to say "Captain on the bridge".
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on September 09, 2021, 09:01:24 PM
That trailer has sucked all the interest out of the show for me. The first season started well before collapsing to a dreadful will-this-do finish.

Now they seem to be rehashing the Terran empire and time travel to the present (which has been hammered to death by thousands of TV shows and films let alone Star Trek itself). Add a splash of geriatric Q and you end up with cold porridge.

I think I read somewhere they'd gone straight into shooting season three which I'd assume would be the end of the show. Can't say I care.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on September 09, 2021, 09:22:53 PM
Maybe people can choose what accent the universal translator gives them. Like a ringtone. Or maybe the Romulan woman dropped hers in a pint of Guinness.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 09:26:22 PM
She worked undercover in Ireland for the Tal Shiar.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 09, 2021, 09:39:48 PM
Perhaps Philip Green is Dominic Green from Quantum Of Solace's brother, and is played by Rami Malek in No Time To Die? I may be creating an almighty mish-mash of franchises here, but it'd be no more convoluted and contrived than PIC.

Oh, sure, let's time-travel to the past by reanimating the corpse of a Borg Queen, and then leave it in the care of Dr. Kim Pine. I can't see any potential drawbacks to that plan...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM
Kim Pine should be in jail, at this point. She killed a man because her mind was all scrambled from shock sites.[nb]The weakest part of the entire show. Why would Romulans be freaked out by timelapse footage of a fox rotting? Why didn't they see huge pointy things coming right at their eyes while machine language and transformer sounds screeched deafeningly in their ears?[/nb] That won't hold up in any court.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Cloud on September 10, 2021, 01:36:27 AM
Hate the mirror universe, always have, always will. It's shit and overdone and just really lazy for an entire mirror universe to somehow be all inherently evil.

Don't fancy it going into present day either. STV was a novelty once, it doesn't need to be done again as an entire series

Also, too old for Q's shit? Mate, you're an Android. Did the whole "cheating death" thing, remember?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: evilcommiedictator on September 10, 2021, 02:20:41 AM
That trailer looks fucking atrocious. Every ten seconds I'm going "Oh no...."
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on September 10, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
They really need to stop fucking swearing. It's the most incongruous thing to introduce to Star Trek. It doesn't make the characters cool and relatable, it makes them childishly underwritten and shit. Kirk being baffled by profanity in Star Trek 4 is a wonderful moment. Every time I hear them swear in the new stuff it bursts that Shatner balloon.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 07:37:49 AM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 10, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
They really need to stop fucking swearing. It's the most incongruous thing to introduce to Star Trek. It doesn't make the characters cool and relatable, it makes them childishly underwritten and shit. Kirk being baffled by profanity in Star Trek 4 is a wonderful moment. Every time I hear them swear in the new stuff it bursts that Shatner balloon.

The misguided swearing (and now the doubling down on it) is emblematic of the whole problem. These shows are made by tin-eared jocks and businessmen who don't have a clue what is cool, much less what is meaningful.

Their idea of cool is utterly puerile. "SCIENCE: HELL YEAH!"
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 08:39:32 AM
They don't actually swear that much lads. They could cut it back by about 33% but it's not excessive. It just seems like a lot because outside of the movies the TNG cast never swore. Unless it was in Klingon.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 08:47:10 AM
Picard swore in French once or twice in early TNG
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
New Star Trek is a robot that perfectly understands the facts but has no concept of context.

Yes we saw Data cut off from swearing in TNG. Yes we saw Data swear in Generations. But there was a context behind those moments. What is the context of the swearing in New Trek? It is just savage backwards thinking applied to the future (in Star Trek terms).

Fucking idiots.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 09:06:44 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
New Star Trek is a robot that perfectly understands the facts but has no concept of context.

Yes we saw Data cut off from swearing in TNG. Yes we saw Data swear in Generations. But there was a context behind those moments. What is the context of the swearing in New Trek? It is just savage backwards thinking applied to the future (in Star Trek terms).

Fucking idiots.
Yeah this is more nitpicking shite, sorry. They never swore before (I wonder if that had anything to do with it being on television and having to abide by broadcasting standards and practices) therefore this is just one more piece of evidence that proves etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 10, 2021, 09:27:48 AM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 08:39:32 AM
They don't actually swear that much lads. They could cut it back by about 33% but it's not excessive. It just seems like a lot because outside of the movies the TNG cast never swore. Unless it was in Klingon.

And it was only that one time we saw a character being vivisected. Just the once, no big deal. Right, guys?

God DAMN! It's so refreshing and grown up to see them all swearing occasionally. You can see it's a real drama now, because they use adult language, like grown ups do,... Yeah mum, I said I'd take the rubbish out, gaawd!!!... anybody complaining about it are just being big babies, not like us, proper grown ups.

Ii mean, Star Trek Picard makes the Fast & Furious films look childish, that's how cool and grown up and mature it is. ... Muuuuum, I said I'd do it! Leave me alone!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 09:36:46 AM
The only sweary bit I remember in S1 was the admiral shutting Picard down. I thought that worked pretty well, as it startled the audience in the same way it startled the man himself to have his demands rejected so abruptly.

The line in the new trailer is a bit more silly, but it's the "i'm way too old" bit that bothers me more tbh. PatStew's been hanging around with Americans for too long.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 10:08:16 AM
That's a good point, actually. He could have said "I am FAR too old..." and even Americans would have understood what he meant ("MOM! That British guy pretending to be French described a period of time using a term for distance!").
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 10:26:38 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 10, 2021, 09:27:48 AM
And it was only that one time we saw a character being vivisected. Just the once, no big deal. Right, guys?

God DAMN! It's so refreshing and grown up to see them all swearing occasionally. You can see it's a real drama now, because they use adult language, like grown ups do,... Yeah mum, I said I'd take the rubbish out, gaawd!!!... anybody complaining about it are just being big babies, not like us, proper grown ups.

Ii mean, Star Trek Picard makes the Fast & Furious films look childish, that's how cool and grown up and mature it is. ... Muuuuum, I said I'd do it! Leave me alone!
Do you need to change your pants after shitting them so much?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on September 10, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
Deanna's accent was originally supposed to be a Betazoid accent; the producers asked her to make one up because she was supposed to be exotic. So she came up with one that was a bit of a mish-mash of Eastern European and Israeli accents. Then she got pissed off when her mother didn't have the accent, and basically said What the fuck? to Rick Berman, who brushed her off by telling her the character had her father's accent (which makes no sense because her father was supposed to be human). So she got pissed off again later when her father didn't have the accent, and basically said What the double fuck?? to Berman, who brushed her off by telling her they'd sent her away to school. After that I think she pretty much let the accent lapse, because basically What the fuck???
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on September 10, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
That's the problem when a lead actor does an accent, guest actors rarely copy them. See also Londo Mollari in Babylon 5.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 09:06:44 AM
Yeah this is more nitpicking shite, sorry. They never swore before (I wonder if that had anything to do with it being on television and having to abide by broadcasting standards and practices) therefore this is just one more piece of evidence that proves etc.



Swearing changes the tone of something. Like how early Big Finish had swearing in before fans complained. It doesn't matter if there was another reason they didn't swear back then, why change it now that it has been established as part of the tone of the series? Particularly when there was a specific moment in one film in which that language was deemed backwards.

But frankly it is the least of its problems. Just one of a myriad  of reasons why it is shit. If it was just swearing that I didn't  like about it then I'd probably not even mention it. You inevitably nitpick when something is as bad as Picard is.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: Alberon on September 10, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
That's the problem when a lead actor does an accent, guest actors rarely copy them. See also Londo Mollari in Babylon 5.

But that could be ignored, because it's not improbably that Centauri could have all sorts of accents, and we never saw anyone he was directly related to by birth.

Where the system does break down is when you have a CBBC show like Millie Inbetween (starting CaB's own James Bachman) where the kids have a Scottish accent despite neither parent having one.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 01:54:52 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 12:53:25 PM
Swearing changes the tone of something. Like how early Big Finish had swearing in before fans complained. It doesn't matter if there was another reason they didn't swear back then, why change it now that it has been established as part of the tone of the series? Particularly when there was a specific moment in one film in which that language was deemed backwards.

Yeah, sorry Poirot but I agree with James. And I so wish I could agree with Poirot! I was never one of those nitpicker fans.[nb]"My mum says I'm cool!"[/nb] I hear what sounds like abject nerdery coming out of my mouth (or fingertips) but I think it's more than that and actually it's a legitimately important point about art and writing more broadly. The swearing, no matter how infrequent it may be, is stylistically a bad choice.

That Admiral telling Picard to "shut the fuck up" was shockingly wrong. (At least we're not in prequel territory for once though, so we're not being asked to accept that Admiralty always spoke that way).

I see the detail of the swearing as emblematic of one of the bigger problems with New Trek. The producers think that Dark = Badass = Mature = Good. When actually it's Dark = Lame + Childish = Poopies.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
No problem with swearing in Star Trek - the way people speak in the 90s shows is kind of stilted and odd - but it feels very knowing and giddy in neo-Trek. "You're right ensign, it is fucking cool!!!", "shut the fuck up," etc. Lame. Same for Picard saying he has no time for Q's "bullsh-" in the trailer.

Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
No problem with swearing in Star Trek - the way people speak in the 90s shows is kind of stilted and odd - but it feels very knowing and giddy in neo-Trek. "You're right ensign, it is fucking cool!!!", "shut the fuck up," etc. Lame. Same for Picard saying he has no time for Q's "bullsh-" in the trailer.

Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.

Actually, that's great, Lemming. Yeah. I'd be open-minded in principle about swearing in Trek if it didn't sound so awkward and crow-barred. Stilted is exactly the word.

I guess it's stilted because it's deployed in contexts (I might say a universe, but maybe that's too far) where real people would be unlikely to swear. Old dignified European man saying "bullshit" like an American teen; people swearing at work; a decorated Admiral in a not-particularly-stressful scenario. It's just so weird; this is why I think they're trying too hard to be cool and I just find that gross. It's like Jessie Pinkman putting chili powder in the meth. Inexpert. Dumb.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:54:50 PM
Yeah, exactly - same for other elements in neo-Trek, like the violence. There can be (and obviously always has been) violence in Star Trek, but maybe it shouldn't take the form of a Romulan Samurai kid delivering cool one-liners before slicing nameless, faceless people's heads off, or Icheb graphically getting his eyeball torn out of his head and dying. Same problem I had with a lot of the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Endicott on September 10, 2021, 05:10:36 PM
It's hard to get worked up either way re the swearing in Picard, but just for the hulluvit someones put all the older series swearing in a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErazOHgjhQ
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 05:29:07 PM
And yet they missed out the best one of all. (https://youtu.be/3IPyJ_b4HSc)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Endicott on September 10, 2021, 05:10:36 PM
It's hard to get worked up either way re the swearing in Picard, but just for the hulluvit someones put all the older series swearing in a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErazOHgjhQ

ahaha, that was awesome. The only one I didn't like was Scotty's "Klingon bitch" - the others all had appropriate weight and were beautiful.

Fave might have been Kirk's "no, no dipshit" one. Exceptionally funny and endearing.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: greenman on September 10, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: mothman on September 10, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
But that could be ignored, because it's not improbably that Centauri could have all sorts of accents, and we never saw anyone he was directly related to by birth.

There were also quite a few character who did have accents like Londo, Refa most obviously and I seem to remember the friend Londo duels with? coincidental in both cases the most obvious lack of accent was Majel Barrett.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 10, 2021, 07:01:37 PM
Swearing in Star Trek only doesn't work when a big deal is made out of it and the writers leave it hang in the air so the audience have time to react to the imaginary taboo being broken by a Star Trek character saying rude words. Like when Disco dropped the first F-Bomb, or even Data's "Oh shit!" in Generations. Oh and Admiral Sheer Fucking Hubris doesn't work, but that's partly because she wasn't a believable character anyway, imo.

Picard saying he has no time for Q's bullshit or Riker commenting that they were through 'running from these bastards' in Insurrection seem fine to me imo.

Quote from: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.

Picard was quoting what Riker said to him years previously with the "ass-deep in Romulans" remark, so the question is: "is it something Riker would say?". Doesn't seem nearly as wrong a statement to come out of Riker's as opposed to Picard's.

Although if they had kept the original (better) ending scenes for Insurrection, we would've gotten Picard saying "Top level review my ass": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-UxpMUvfJ4&ab_channel=Vudu
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
Quote from: greenman on September 10, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
There were also quite a few character who did have accents like Londo, Refa most obviously and I seem to remember the friend Londo duels with? coincidental in both cases the most obvious lack of accent was Majel Barrett.

His much younger lady friend Adira as well. Maybe at least one of his wives. The Centauri accent is pretty broad, even I can do a decent approximation and i'm not a trained actor or nuffink. Stephen Furst and Majel Barrett were both just lazy (RIP)

Edit: It's pretty much how Tommy Wiseau naturally speaks now I think about it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 08:09:29 PM
Peter Jurasik said that whenever he had trouble slipping back into the accent, he would just say "Mr. Garibaldi!" and it'd come flooding back.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Cloud on September 11, 2021, 01:44:09 AM
I watched B5 before I knew what a garibaldi was.  And then watched Life on Mars and wondered why the various witness interviewees kept asking for biscuits named after that bloke on B5.

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 10, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
They really need to stop fucking swearing.

Yeah, the foul mouthed cunts.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Kelvin on September 11, 2021, 02:02:39 AM
The trailer looks horrendous, and I'm not sure what value there is a rewritten past that has turned society into a fascist state, when the Federation has already, in the existing continuity, been transformed into a ruthless, xenophobic, valueless pile of shit anyway. No, it's not currently out and out fascism, but it's already moved far enough from the original utopian vision of Star Trek that there's no stark parallel - or tension - in creating a new, hateful world in its place.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wentworth Smith on September 11, 2021, 09:38:39 PM
The trailer with Nazi Picard makes it look just like a mirror universe episode and I have zero interest in that. The makers of this and Discovery seem to really dislike Star Trek with their constant moving the story away from the actual Star trek universe.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 11, 2021, 10:16:09 PM
The banners at the rally are similar in shape to the Terran Empire symbol, but definitely different overall. At the risk of reopening a discussion we had in the TNG thread, I think this is intended to be an altered timeline rather than a different universe.

Unless Kurtzmann & co really have taken it upon themselves to show the point of divergence/creation of the Mirror Universe - which I certainly wouldn't put past them! But I maintain I think it's not the MU.

I wonder whether this season's storyline is a reaction to the fan dislike of the grimdark 25th-century Federation? "It could be a LOT worse, see?!"
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on September 11, 2021, 10:28:46 PM
I'm sure it's not the Mirror Universe, but really how different is another 'evil Federation' going to be?

Hasn't Discovery plowed that field enough recently? Can't the showrunners find something new and different to play with?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: greenman on September 12, 2021, 01:09:53 AM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
His much younger lady friend Adira as well. Maybe at least one of his wives. The Centauri accent is pretty broad, even I can do a decent approximation and i'm not a trained actor or nuffink. Stephen Furst and Majel Barrett were both just lazy (RIP)

Edit: It's pretty much how Tommy Wiseau naturally speaks now I think about it.

Impossible to say "Vir" in any other way.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Cloud on September 12, 2021, 01:55:45 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

B7 was downright cheerful compared to some of Picard S1

Mind, so was Eastenders.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: chveik on September 12, 2021, 01:58:08 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

i've been watching MillenniuM, i don't think you can get more grim dark than that. it's great though
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: jamiefairlie on September 12, 2021, 05:48:05 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

Yeah, or Sapphire and Steel, in fact both!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 12, 2021, 10:08:27 AM
Someone spotted a scene in the trailer where Picard is being interrogated by what could be a 21st century police detective, played by Jay Karnes, best known for playing Dutch in The Shield. However, once upon a time he also played Lt. Ducane of the Federation timeship Relativity in the VOY episode of the same name. Which could just be a coincidence - he went on to bigger and better things after all - but if so, it's a hell of a one...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on January 21, 2022, 08:09:02 PM
New trailer. Back 3rd March - 4th on Prime?

https://intl.startrek.com/news/the-official-star-trek-picard-season-two-trailer-has-arrived
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on January 21, 2022, 08:14:29 PM
Every time I read that Terry Matalas is producer I think Kojak has gotten involved somehow
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on January 21, 2022, 08:24:05 PM
So baffling. So they're confirmed to be in 2024 Los Angeles now, but some Q-inuced alt timeline I guess, maybe with Guinan knocking about unless those scenes were from the future. Plus Borg Queen is there. Borg Queen, Q, Guinan, Brent Spiner as Soong or some Soong predecessor. As much shit crammed in as possible.

Going in with literally no hopes whatsoever so it might be a laugh at least. Seven and Raffi opening a cop van and shooting at them with a special pulse phaser, sick.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on January 21, 2022, 08:50:18 PM
It almost looks like they might be attempting the temporal slingshot effect from Voyage Home - if so, then there's another greatest hit for the list.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on January 21, 2022, 10:06:36 PM
Yeah not getting too excited as I've burnt before but 100 times more interested in this than whatever shite DSC is pumping out these days.

Plus in terms of TNG returns
Spoiler alert
Only Geordi & Worf to contribute to the current era, and Wesley i suppose but i really thought he would have been in LD by now.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on January 21, 2022, 10:12:15 PM
Quote from: Lemming on January 21, 2022, 08:24:05 PMSo baffling. So they're confirmed to be in 2024 Los Angeles now, but some Q-inuced alt timeline I guess, maybe with Guinan knocking about unless those scenes were from the future. Plus Borg Queen is there. Borg Queen, Q, Guinan, Brent Spiner as Soong or some Soong predecessor. As much shit crammed in as possible.

Going in with literally no hopes whatsoever so it might be a laugh at least. Seven and Raffi opening a cop van and shooting at them with a special pulse phaser, sick.

I suppose we don't know how much time Guinan spent on Earth. And how then she ended up as a refugee in the 2290's. Did she flee the Borg then along with Soran? Did she flee several centuries before and then become a refugee again centuries later? That was always one of the best things with Guinan, the mystery. Hope they don't go explaining it all in this.

And loved the name of area she has her bar and of course building number.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on January 21, 2022, 11:18:20 PM
The bits with Guinan appear to be 24th (25th?) century. You can see a shot of an Andorian drinking in the bar.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on January 21, 2022, 11:39:59 PM
This looks like shit!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on January 21, 2022, 11:40:41 PM
Your face looks like shit
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on January 21, 2022, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on January 21, 2022, 11:40:41 PMYour face looks like shit

Yeah but I don't have a robot cock.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on January 22, 2022, 12:01:03 AM
Right so it looks like the plot is:

Spoiler alert
- Suddenly it's Dark Federation! Q is either responsible or sets JLP of on quest to stop it (this last part probably unintentional since JLP goes to see Guinean for advice and she and Q hate each other)
- The crew time travels to the 21st century despite Starfleet trying to stop them... because Dark Starfleet presumably, and evil; also because (from teaser trailer which I'd forgotten) they pinch a Borg Queen to do the time travel bit (never mind that they time travelled back after First Contact without a Queen to open a vortex)
- Q is up to stuff in the 21st, with a 21st century Soong (to go with the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th-going-on-25th century Soongs we've seeng)
- Hilarious fish-out-of-water time traveller hijinks presumably ensue, though not evident in trailer
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on January 22, 2022, 12:42:22 AM
Whatever the plot is it will be anti-Trek 'Dark shit'but in the while it won't matter because LD, Prodigy and possibly SNW will be flying he flag.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on January 22, 2022, 01:18:14 AM
It's curious how, even though I've quite enjoyed the current DSC season and have found it a step up from the previous, I'm not missing it during its break nor impatient for it to return.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on January 22, 2022, 09:41:16 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on January 21, 2022, 11:52:40 PMYeah but I don't have a robot cock.

Don't knock it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClP8n6asn3w
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on January 22, 2022, 12:09:48 PM
Maybe we've been in the [grim]dark timeline all this time and they're going to fix it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on January 22, 2022, 01:05:22 PM
Do you know, that's not a bad idea. Although the Dark Fed trappings are obvious and dissonant in the trailer.
Spoiler alert
One thing nobody seems to have commented on in the trailer are what appear to be flashbacks to Picard's childhood, where he is confronted by Romulans - or Vulcans?
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on January 24, 2022, 02:53:06 AM
Would have loved it if they got Ted Danson in to play Guinan.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on January 24, 2022, 06:41:24 AM
Paramount+ ?? Does this mean I won't be able to watch it without taking out another subscription? Which I won't be doing.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on January 24, 2022, 08:09:53 AM
Quote from: kalowski on January 24, 2022, 06:41:24 AMParamount+ ?? Does this mean I won't be able to watch it without taking out another subscription? Which I won't be doing.

It'll be on Amazon Prime. P+ is launching here this year so not sure where further series will air.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on January 24, 2022, 08:14:09 AM
From the trailer, this looks shit, but perhaps more promising than S1. However, I'm sure that they've made something approximately as bad.  S1 was so abhorrent that I won't be watching.

S1 was trying hard to be "grown up", "realistic" and "gritty". There are a million SF movies and shows that are "dark". There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, we need some of that and, luckily, there are plenty of great shows in that category. But we also badly need some of not that.

Trek was a rare SF show that gave us a future that we might want to aspire to. We might not find every aspect of that future desirable, because Trek was always a product of its time, its culture and its often dickish creators. But its heart was in a good place, and it showed us that the future didn't have to be abject misery.

New Trek, from what I've seen, comes from a place of "grow up, you can't have that". The creators of new Trek have no sense of vision - they can only imagine a world like our own - or they only want to imagine a world like our own. Commercial interests dictate that something called "Star Trek" is going to be made. It will have elements from previous shows, to signal that it's a continuation of Trek. It probably won't give us a utopian future, unless that's part of the brief, because utopian shows are not what creators tend to make.

For me, having the utopian elements of Trek (and - I'd argue - the idealistic elements of Star Wars) extracted feels like having those futures snatched away. "Are you naive or something? Of course you can't have that. You can't go against human nature. Don't even think it".

I really liked the episode where some of the old team sat around eating pizza and chatting. It was notalgic, but it was also a beam of light. The rest was repellent.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on January 24, 2022, 10:09:57 AM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on January 24, 2022, 02:53:06 AMWould have loved it if they got Ted Danson in to play Guinan.

The bloody woke brigade put the kibosh on that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on January 24, 2022, 11:06:06 AM
Quote from: Malcy on January 24, 2022, 08:09:53 AMIt'll be on Amazon Prime. P+ is launching here this year so not sure where further series will air.

I'd bet that Paramount wanted to do the same trick as with Discovery and make it a P+ exclusive before a new season, but the contract with Amazon must make renegotiation much harder.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on January 24, 2022, 11:07:28 AM
Bezos sees himself in the handsome bald spaceman
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on January 24, 2022, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on January 22, 2022, 12:09:48 PMMaybe we've been in the [grim]dark timeline all this time and they're going to fix it.
Said this several pages ago.
Quote from: mothman on January 22, 2022, 12:01:03 AMRight so it looks like the plot is:

Spoiler alert
- Q is up to stuff in the 21st, with a 21st century Soong (to go with the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th-going-on-25th century Soongs we've seeng)
[close]
Spoiler alert
imagine people having ancestors
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on January 24, 2022, 05:53:54 PM
As with the 100% definitive proof of the existence of the soul, it's an established fact in the Star Trek universe that one will often look exactly identical to one's ancestors.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on January 24, 2022, 05:55:16 PM
But your clone will look nothing like you.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on January 24, 2022, 06:41:59 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on January 24, 2022, 03:11:02 PM
Spoiler alert
imagine people having ancestors
[close]
... who always look identical?
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on January 24, 2022, 05:53:54 PMAs with the 100% definitive proof of the existence of the soul, it's an established fact in the Star Trek universe that one will often look exactly identical to one's ancestors.
Is the soul duplicatable? It'd have to be, because Tom Riker.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on January 27, 2022, 03:01:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/asBtm57.png)

It's about love. And that's what makes it so special.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Bad Ambassador on January 27, 2022, 04:37:25 PM
He could have stopped with the first line.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on January 28, 2022, 01:36:03 AM
I know nobody here has any hope of this being anything other than skin-crawlingly shit, but what Goldsman says there is precisely the problem.

It's love this time, not faith, but it's still the meaningless vom-bucket soap opera melodrama that makes these scripts so firmly bin-worthy and about nothing whatsoever. I don't know what the fuck this cretin thinks he's doing.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on January 28, 2022, 07:19:35 AM
Wait, they intended the first series to be about hope? But... they took any glimmer of hope out of the franchise!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on January 28, 2022, 08:01:36 AM
I liked the first series, although I did think it started more strongly than it finished (apparently they spent at least a year writing the first couple of episodes and then rushed through the later ones).

Not particularly enthused about stories where they travel back to the present day, and i've never been a big fan of Q as a character, but i'm looking forward to this. But hey, I like Discovery as well, and I think DS9 is the shittest Star Trek series so what do I know.

Edit: I forgot Enterprise. Obviously that's the worst one, smh
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on January 28, 2022, 04:44:48 PM
Quote from: grainger on January 28, 2022, 07:19:35 AMWait, they intended the first series to be about hope? But... they took any glimmer of hope out of the franchise!

Hope was restored to the universe when that Romulan samurai sliced some guy's heads off and Seven executed that unarmed organ thief and then fatally kicked another Romulan down a big hole. Also Seven and Raffi (who'd never spoken before, I think?) held hands at the end, showing that love has prevailed too.

Icheb's eye getting popped out was also part of the message of hope.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on January 28, 2022, 04:51:38 PM
As the saying goes - in the kingdom of the hopeless, the one-eyed man is dope.
(https://c.tenor.com/DfsReHLfy50AAAAC/i-dont-know-im-on-drugs-jett-reno.gif)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 03, 2022, 12:03:56 PM
Couldn't really find fault with that at all. Really enjoyed it. Rich in references and even music from past series and films.

Hope it keeps it up.

Spoiler alert
And a proper fleet at last. I saw Sovereign, Nebula, Akira, Ambassador, Excelsior, Constellation, Steamrunner, the copy and paste class from last time and a Galaxy class as well i think.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on March 03, 2022, 12:55:33 PM
The reviews generally have been more positive. One from the Telegraph laid into the first season by saying it wasn't Trek and then went on to say this has improved.

I believe the reviews are based on the first three episodes. Hopefully this season won't go off the cliff the way the first one did.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 03, 2022, 04:39:22 PM
I enjoyed it, predictably enough. Jeri Ryan is on excellent form - lots of little moments where we got a glimpse of the old Seven from Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 03, 2022, 06:54:37 PM
Did they kill the horrible robot girl, or did they all forgive her attempt at committing universal genocide?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 03, 2022, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 03, 2022, 06:54:37 PMDid they kill the horrible robot girl, or did they all forgive her attempt at committing universal genocide?

They seem to have forgiven the other murderers.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Chairman Yang on March 03, 2022, 07:09:17 PM
So this set at least four years after the last episode? With Legolas graduating, Picard in a position of semi-retired authority, Rios captaining his own wacky crew? It's basically a do-over, whatever.

Best of luck to those of you sticking with it, sincerely hope it picks up, but I can't do with the tin-eared dialogue and I have no faith or love to give the show, too busy running for the stars I guess.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Chairman Yang on March 03, 2022, 07:12:23 PM
I guess it could have been a commencement speech? Somewhere between 4 years and... 6 months. Whatever amount of time makes the least sense.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 03, 2022, 07:44:59 PM
The other Tal'Shiar turned vineyard worker has been dead 18 months. I think the Aussie Romulan has been in the academy a while as he was posted to the Excelsior which means he must have been there around 2 years. So I reckon 2-3 years have passed.

4 ship designs from Star Trek Online made it into the fleet. The Sutherland class which is just an updated Nebula is one. Presumably named after the ship Data briefly commanded in 'Redemption'.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 03, 2022, 09:27:18 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on March 03, 2022, 07:04:09 PMThey seem to have forgiven the other murderers.

It's always worth remembering that Worf once killed and partially devoured a fellow crewmember, in the devolution episode of TNG. I don't know if he had to go on a sensitivity course or what afterwards
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 04, 2022, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on March 03, 2022, 09:27:18 PMIt's always worth remembering that Worf once killed and partially devoured a fellow crewmember, in the devolution episode of TNG. I don't know if he had to go on a sensitivity course or what afterwards

He was infected with a mutated virus. Hardly fair to blame that on him. There are much better examples of murdering. He actually did murder Duras in Season 2 of TNG and Gowron in Season 7 of DS9. Prime Directive though. Respect the Klingon ways. I actually really like that as an analysis of how far the Prime Directive should go (although the episode Half a Life is far and away the best Prime Directive episode).

Whereas Seven murdered a bunch of people out of vengeance and Jurati murdered Maddox because she saw the universe dying (a fox decomposing). Jurati has justification, I suppose, even if the whole great secret that makes people rip their faces off is awful. I remember the ninja Romulan kid decapitating somebody but I don't remember the details.

My problem with the murdering is that the weight of it is not respected. In DS9 we have Sisko end up effectively responsible for the death of a Romulan officer however the weight of his decisions on his conscience is felt throughout. Characters murdering in Picard is far less of a weight on the characters.

And the key of it all is to ask how many of those murders were actually necessary. The two Worf murders were as they not only worked on a character level but a cultural level in understanding the Klingons. Sisko was necessary to show how far characters would go to stop the Dominion. Did Jurati need to kill Maddox? Possibly. Did the ninja kid need to decapitate somebody? No, it was just a cool special effect. Did Seven need to murder loads of people in revenge? No, it was just a cool action shot of her dual wielding phasers.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on March 04, 2022, 03:24:31 PM
Occasionaly DS got it wrong. Sisko destroyed the biosphere of a planet to get revenge on that security guy, and then laughed it off with Dax at the end of the episode. Also, Dax went on a murdering spree with Worf (in that episode where they did an extracurricular special ops on that fortress), although I suppose that could be put down to Klingon cultural stuff.

I agree 100% about the violence in Picard S1 being weightless. It was the norm in Picard S1, not the exception, unlike earlier Treks.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on March 04, 2022, 03:35:51 PM
One of my favourite Worf moments is when he is captured by the Dominion. Weyoun shows up to gloat and Worf just grabs him and snaps his neck before the guards can react.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 04, 2022, 05:01:32 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on March 04, 2022, 02:57:00 PMDid Seven need to murder loads of people in revenge? No, it was just a cool action shot of her dual wielding phasers.


Now I appreciate this is splitting hairs but Seven killed one (1) person in the episode you're talking about. The visual language they go with now is red phaser = kill, blue phaser = stun. You can see her change the setting after bumping off her mobster ex. A crime of passion m'lud, for someone who started from zero in terms of her ethical sensibilities.

In fact you see the same in the latest episode, where Seven doesn't get shot at by the baddie because she's the only one firing on a stun setting.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on March 04, 2022, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Malcy on March 03, 2022, 12:03:56 PM
Spoiler alert
And a proper fleet at last. I saw Sovereign, Nebula, Akira, Ambassador, Excelsior, Constellation, Steamrunner, the copy and paste class from last time and a Galaxy class as well i think.
[close]

I know right? Was that so fucking hard that they couldn't have done it in season 1? (Although apart from the new Stargazer class, the model quality wasn't great)

Also love Picard's reaction to Q. He actually hates him. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on March 05, 2022, 02:09:32 AM
Just saw the first episode, wave of negativity incoming. It feels like they're just completely distancing themselves from the first season, presenting us with new versions of the characters and a new version of the setting (Rios rejoined Starfleet as a captain even after receiving a "black flag directive" from them to murder Soji's sister, which made his captain/best mate/whatever shoot himself and haunted Rios to the point of becoming some weird guy who sails around with shrapnel in his arm?). Maybe that was resolved in season one, I honestly don't really remember. Either way everyone seems to reckon Starfleet is fine now and that it's a good idea to work for them, BLACK FLAG DIRECTIVES and all.

The only real reference to the violence committed by the crew in the first season was Jurati's joking mention of that time she suffocated Bruce Maddox to death by shutting down all his organs or whatever, because she had to protect the world from the secret so terrifying it sends you insane - CGI footage of Earth blowing up. I'm sure Legolas will do well as an officer of Starfleet after his repeated beheading sprees in the first season. At least Jeri Ryan seems to be able to play Seven more recognisably than she did in the previous season.

A course correction is a good thing though given the absolute state of the first season so it's tempting to give them the benefit of the doubt and just accept that they're trying again and let them run with it. But as a show it still feels so meandering. 55 minutes and there's less content than any given 20 min segment of the average TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 episode. I know, serialised TV, it's LIKE A NOVEL IN VISUAL FORM, EACH EPISODE A CHAPTER and I'm insane and/or impatient for not clicking with it.

My favourite thing about this though is how Picard is the worst character in a series named after him. Systematically sucks the life out of any scene he's in. Completely passive, perpetually confused, and always downcast. He's often paired with much more dynamic and energetic characters too just to really highlight it.

Side note: why the fuck do phasers still have to be Star Wars blasters. It's so terrible, phasers were cool partially because you can't really have stupid elongated shootout scenes with them where someone sprints across a room with shaky camera dodging bullets like raindrops. How are the blasters even useful? What happens if you need to do wide-beam stun? You just shake your arm side to side really fast while desperately pulling the trigger over and over? What happens if you need to disintegrate a wall (eg "Return of the Archons") or heat rocks (eg "The Enemy Within", "Silicon Avatar")? You just break your finger firing a hundred times a minute while the gun makes cool noises?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on March 05, 2022, 03:28:07 PM
I would probably prefer old-fashioned episodic format but we can't blame serialisation on New Trek's failings. Breaking Bad is serialised and it's one of the best things ever. New Trek just doesn't have the talent behind it, whatever the format.

Agree that course correction was a good decision but it would have been better to course correct into something clever or fun. You'd think that would go without saying but it's 2022 and we're talking about Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman.

Why ST:P can't just be Murder She Wrote in the Final Frontier is beyond me.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 07, 2022, 11:45:04 PM
A breakdown of all the ships in the Federation fleet from ep 1.

https://trekmovie.com/2022/03/07/star-trek-picard-production-designer-details-starships-from-season-2-premiere/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: evilcommiedictator on March 08, 2022, 01:26:31 AM
The funny thing to remember is that now Picard is an Android - and whilst we can forget that there are human-like Androids now, he's front and center.

That also means he's technically not Locutus now? I suppose after pissing the big baddy away in the wind last time, going back to a classic baddie was an easy decision.

Spoiler alert
Borg, again, yay. Although now we've time-travelled to the bad Earth? Again?
[close]

No need to do anything interesting, like a Romulan civil war between Tal-Shiar supporters and the rest, or anything like that, they've just gone home to tend to their vineyards and marry their human slaves I guess.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on March 08, 2022, 09:07:18 AM
Well presumably he no longer has any residual Borg technology in him and thus couldn't 'hear' them like he could in First Contact. But the Borg should still know him and his personality (or at least what he was like 35 years ago) intimately from the time he was assimilated.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 08, 2022, 10:04:02 AM
I wondered why he looked at Seven for confirmation of it being the Borg at first then remembered that he probably couldn't hear them anymore as he's an android now.

I reckon S3 will end with Q giving him his old body back and him dying soon after.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on March 09, 2022, 03:34:43 PM
So cool they're bringing back Zaphod Beeblebrox:

(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/pEXvyJhfWVZen9Hdj4rveT-320-80.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on March 10, 2022, 07:24:06 PM
I mostly enjoyed the first episode and I'm normally a big Q fan, but I'm halfway through the second episode and it's annoying me right now, I don't mind the odd bit of mirror / alternative universe (or timeline) fun in a long running series but if the whole season is set in this world it's surely going to be all a bit meaningless when the reset button is inevitably pushed and we're back in the normal world. This is all rather miserable stuff too, a good few alternative world stories have fun with their concept but this is essentially "What if humans were cunts?" and given that's our current reality it's not something I'm excited to see.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on March 10, 2022, 07:56:47 PM
And it's not like Discovery hasn't mined out the same patch already.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 10, 2022, 08:19:04 PM
Thought that was even better than last week. Really enjoying this. It's probably the last we are going to see of that timeline anyway as it makes the move to 2024 next episode.

This weeks mentions that I spotted

Spoiler alert
Dukat, Martok & Sarek's skulls on display!
Sisko, Spock and Amanda? Probaly more likely Perrin.
Spot!
And the Metreon Cascade from Voyager.
[close]

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on March 11, 2022, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: Malcy on March 10, 2022, 08:19:04 PM
Spoiler alert
Dukat, Martok & Sarek's skulls on display!
[close]

I'm imagining you saying that in a Rich Evans voice.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on March 11, 2022, 07:43:25 PM
Quote from: Malcy on March 10, 2022, 08:19:04 PMThought that was even better than last week. Really enjoying this. It's probably the last we are going to see of that timeline anyway as it makes the move to 2024 next episode.

This weeks mentions that I spotted

Spoiler alert
Dukat, Martok & Sarek's skulls on display!
Sisko, Spock and Amanda? Probaly more likely Perrin.
Spot!
And the Metreon Cascade from Voyager.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Missed Adam Soong?

EDIT: Actually since it was a giant holo statue, Adam Soong is the Brent Spiner character they meet in the past. And probably he sets the whole planet towards the Evil future, but they can't just kill him because then the Soong bloodline and Data don't exist, so Picard has to talk him into being a nice bloke.

And General Sisko should've really been the one to have killed Dukat, even in the altered timeline.

If Q's apparently gone a bit strange, is it the case that the Original Timeline Borg Queen knew he was going to fuck up something eventually, using her transtemporal consciousness or whatever it was? And the reason she drew Picard to her and made him blow up the Stargazer was so Q would make whatever he was going to do involve Picard, who could then solve it, rather than letting Picard die?

Or maybe the Borg have found some way to attack the Continuum (as ludicrously improbable as that is) and this is all somehow intertwined in it.

Also I've decided that this Borg Queen is the best Borg Queen. All the little smirks out of her are brilliant. I bet they'll ruin her though.

Evil timeline Earth is about as interesting as I thought it would be. Which is to say it isn't very interesting at all. PUBLIC EXECUTIONS OMG! ERADICATION DAY! FASCISM! SO HARDCORE!
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on March 11, 2022, 10:41:20 PM
How much better would this be without Agnes? Answer: 50,000,000 times better.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on March 11, 2022, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: kalowski on March 11, 2022, 10:41:20 PMHow much better would this be without Agnes? Answer: 50,000,000 times better.

Yeah, she's all over the fucking place. Are they trying to play the 'really smart but also really neurotic' angle with her or something?

Spoiler alert
Borg Queen is eyeing her up a lot. Hopefully there'll be some actual plot thread with payoff there and not just some stupid comedy scenes of "OMG I'm so scared of the Queen she's about to eat my brain oh no wait she's just making herself some nanoprobe coffee or something innocent lol nevermind."
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on March 11, 2022, 11:01:42 PM
After episode 1 my wife asked me if I was enjoying it and  I said "I love it and hate it"
Love the concept and plot
Hate the dialogue. Genuine line of "Wait, what now?" In 2022.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on March 12, 2022, 12:25:47 AM
You've all missed one reference.

Spoiler alert
Q says at some point, "How quaint. How provincial. How yesterday's Enterprise of you."
Which is basically the mood they're trying to recreate here.
[close]

Agnes is irritating, but she's harmless. This stuff is just filler. Coming from Discovery the day before, I loved her

Spoiler alert
"You know, I would hang up on you right now if it wasn't gonna get us all killed", just after she has a feud with Rios. Which denotes some self-awareness from the writers.
In Discovery, she would have hung up instead, and when she would have expressed regrets about acting impulsively, as it caused a ton of harm, we'd get a lecture from another character about how important it is to express one's feelings.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 12, 2022, 01:18:27 AM
Saw both of those references mentioned.

One I did miss was that the
Spoiler alert
Ferengi skull was accompanied by the Staff of the Grand Nagus. But was it Zak's or Rom's I wonder!
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on March 12, 2022, 07:45:12 AM
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on March 12, 2022, 12:25:47 AMYou've all missed one reference.

Spoiler alert
Q says at some point, "How quaint. How provincial. How yesterday's Enterprise of you."
Which is basically the mood they're trying to recreate here.
[close]

I spotted that!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on March 13, 2022, 07:02:21 AM
Oh god. It sounds like this show (I'm not watching it, nor will I) is just "remember when this happened in Star Trek?", stretching out to the horizon, while the show itself misses the actual point of Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on March 13, 2022, 10:30:30 AM
Watching episode 2, even on its own terms wasn't 90% of episode 1 completely pointless?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on March 13, 2022, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: olliebean on March 13, 2022, 10:30:30 AMWatching episode 2, even on its own terms wasn't 90% of episode 1 completely pointless?

There's a proud tradition of that in New Trek for some reason. The show they trailed usually ceases to exist after a couple of hours.

I think it's because the ideas have so little depth, it's best to keep them moving along swiftly so that they don't have to pay off or conclude in any satisfying way.

This is also why they favour serialisation in my opinion. There's nowhere to hide in a traditional 45-minute story but in 9 hours you can fill it with lard and hope nobody remembers the details or how the story began.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on March 13, 2022, 04:43:44 PM
Quote from: grainger on March 13, 2022, 07:02:21 AMOh god. It sounds like this show (I'm not watching it, nor will I) is just "remember when this happened in Star Trek?", stretching out to the horizon, while the show itself misses the actual point of Star Trek.

That's how it sounds to me too. A chaos of memorable things (intellectual properties!!) blitzed up in a tempest of "high stakes" alternate universe or time travel nonsense that is impossible for a thinking mind to follow. But if it all sounds important and the shrapnel keeps blowing in everyone's faces, the dummies will lap it up.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on March 13, 2022, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on March 13, 2022, 04:37:27 PMThere's a proud tradition of that in New Trek for some reason. The show they trailed usually ceases to exist after a couple of hours.

I think it's because the ideas have so little depth, it's best to keep them moving along swiftly so that they don't have to pay off or conclude in any satisfying way.

This is also why they favour serialisation in my opinion. There's nowhere to hide in a traditional 45-minute story but in 9 hours you can fill it with lard and hope nobody remembers the details or how the story began.

It didn't help that they spent 90% of the "previously" bit at the start recapping stuff that had absolutely no bearing on the episode to come. Otherwise I'd probably have just forgotten how pointless episode 1 was and not commented on it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on March 13, 2022, 08:47:30 PM
Episode one seemed about revamping the characters after last season collapsed in on itself.

Episode two was all right though I found myself starting to skip near the end.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on March 15, 2022, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: Malcy on March 12, 2022, 01:18:27 AMSaw both of those references mentioned.

One I did miss was that the
Spoiler alert
Ferengi skull was accompanied by the Staff of the Grand Nagus. But was it Zak's or Rom's I wonder!
[close]

Spoiler alert

(https://i.imgur.com/bSJEy4M.jpeg)

Meaningless filler text also mentions them missing the chance to genocide the vulkans with a 'Metreon Cascade' which was the weapon that gave Neelix PTSD in VOY Jetrel
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on March 18, 2022, 07:06:23 PM
I think I'm not going to bother with this anymore, I just find myself getting too annoyed with each episode. All of the preachy patronising shit about the Earth of 2024 was especially irritating, I know we're all fucking cunts who act selfishly and really don't need reminding of that.

I'm fond of Picard and had high hopes of Q making this more fun, but as well as the poor script this was really dull for far too long once again, I don't care about any of the characters apart from Seven and Picard, and all of the Borg Queen nonsense was tedious.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 18, 2022, 08:59:10 PM
They've always been a bit preachy about the past they find themselves in but I did do a bit of an eye roll in this one.

I was really hoping for a modern version of the grey blobby heads after doing the slingshot. I enjoyed the Rios scenes in the clinic though. I just have the feeling now that they are going to drag out what could have been a 5/6 part miniseries over the space of 10 episodes.

Apparently Q
Spoiler alert
Isn't in S3 as he had previously stated.
[close]

Still can't bring myself to go back to DSC and with LD, Prodigy & SNW still to come I don't feel the need so this will fill the time before them and still trying to stay optimistic.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on March 18, 2022, 09:30:02 PM
For comparison, Past Tense Part 1 had gotten to this narrative point in just under 10 minutes including credits and a comic relief bit with Quark.

(https://i.imgur.com/nyzEqEJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 18, 2022, 09:42:45 PM
And had Dick Miller in it which is a bonus alone.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: bakabaka on March 19, 2022, 04:38:48 PM
I gave up on this part way through Q's first speech in episode 2. I just felt that if the only way to make Picard seem optimistic and good was to make everything else pantomimically crap and evil then there was no point.
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on March 18, 2022, 07:06:23 PMI'm fond of Picard and had high hopes of Q making this more fun
Same here. Time to cut our losses, sadly.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on March 22, 2022, 08:11:47 AM
Are we supposed to know why raffi cares that much about Elrond or whatever his name is? And why when people are sad in badly written programmes it makes them act like fucking idiots?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on March 22, 2022, 08:40:40 AM
When the Borg Queen's frame fell forwards, with her in it, in the pre-credits bit, did anyone not think of Bobby Davro?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 22, 2022, 09:19:09 AM
Quote from: phantom_power on March 22, 2022, 08:11:47 AMAre we supposed to know why raffi cares that much about Elrond or whatever his name is? And why when people are sad in badly written programmes it makes them act like fucking idiots?

EMOTIONS
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on March 22, 2022, 10:12:49 AM
I quite liked the Raffi character before but in the space of about five minutes it made me hate her immensely. Rios acting the fucking idiot to get himself sent to the hospital and then arrested was annoying too. And the on-the-nose social commentary. And the "make it up as you go along" Borg/doctor interface thing. They really can just spin that any way they want as it makes no sense anyway.

We already know Akiva Goldsman is a trash merchant but Michael fucking Chabon is involved in this
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 24, 2022, 09:00:24 PM
Thought that was a bit of a mess. Should have known it was going to fall back into bad habits.

The scene on the bus with
Spoiler alert
Kirk Thatcher
[close]
was really odd. Found it a bit cringey.

So many questions and just not arsed with the answers.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on March 24, 2022, 09:41:11 PM
I thought that was just a super poorly done callback, which it was to be fair, seems like the sort of shit explicitly designed to appear in a youtube video or "this weeks 20 secret Picard details" blogspam.

There's always been a nerdy fun aspect of 'knowing shit about star trek' to star trek, is this perverted ghost what passes for that now? Or is this the natural repercussion of it?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 25, 2022, 08:48:08 AM
That scene was a joke, like when Zefram Cochrane says Star Trek in the film. A bit of fun like, not something to get cross about.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Natnar on March 25, 2022, 10:40:28 AM
So what did happen to the actual "evil" versions of Picard and his crew in this timeline? Did Q just kill them all so he could replace them with nice Picard crew, are they all in some limbo somewhere just waiting to be put back Quantum Leap style? Or are they still in their bodies somehow just passively experiencing everything that happens?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on March 25, 2022, 10:47:17 AM
Quote from: phantom_power on March 22, 2022, 10:12:49 AMWe already know Akiva Goldsman is a trash merchant but Michael fucking Chabon is involved in this

I'm not quite sure what Chabon's involvement is now that he's stepped down from showrunner duties after the first season, and so far he's only been given a story credit (along with 3 others) on the second episode. Not that it excuses his shabby writing on season one (which pains me to say, as I bloody love The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay), but I'm not certain he shoulder too much of the blame this time around.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on March 25, 2022, 12:44:19 PM
And now we have
Spoiler alert
Watchers
[close]
who
Spoiler alert
watch over people who have important destinies??
[close]

I think I bailed on the first season around episode five, it'll probably be the same here. The show just seems to throw everything at the wall- Q, Guinan, mirror universe, borg, time travel... and it all feels so random, like the writers sat in a circle one day and the plot came out of a "yes, and..." session.

Anything can happen, because no one cares. Remember: Picard is a robot now. Fucksake.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on March 25, 2022, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on March 25, 2022, 08:48:08 AMThat scene was a joke, like when Zefram Cochrane says Star Trek in the film. A bit of fun like, not something to get cross about.

Are you still enjoying this?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 25, 2022, 02:14:53 PM
https://trekmovie.com/2022/03/24/exclusive-how-star-trek-picard-brought-back-spoiler-from-the-voyage-home/

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 25, 2022, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on March 25, 2022, 02:14:03 PMAre you still enjoying this?

The modern-day setting is a bit of a yawn but otherwise yeah. Santiago Cabrera is great.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on March 25, 2022, 02:41:14 PM
Quote from: elliszeroed on March 25, 2022, 12:44:19 PMAnything can happen, because no one cares. Remember: Picard is a robot now. Fucksake.

Occasionally I remember this at random times and just laugh. Do we reckon it was done so that they can just recast the part when Stewart is gone?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 25, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Deanjam on March 25, 2022, 02:41:14 PMOccasionally I remember this at random times and just laugh. Do we reckon it was done so that they can just recast the part when Stewart is gone?

It was done so they can give him a grand sacrifice* but he can still be there in Season 2 and 3.


*yes, I am well aware that he made a grand sacrifice by dying of natural causes. Roland Emmerich would be embarrassed.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on March 25, 2022, 07:52:40 PM
Quote from: Zero Gravitas on March 24, 2022, 09:41:11 PMI thought that was just a super poorly done callback, which it was to be fair, seems like the sort of shit explicitly designed to appear in a youtube video or "this weeks 20 secret Picard details" blogspam.

To be honest, I thought it was funny enough. Strictly necessary? Probably not, but not worth a complaint for me.

Spoiler alert
This 'watchers' business. Aside from being cheesy imo, it doesn't gel entirely with previous time travel stories. So they're not there to protect the timeline as a whole (cos let's face it, if they were they're clearly not very good at it), but just the destinies certain people. Ok that's fine, but the death of Gabriel Bell in DS9's "Past Tense" erased Picard from history. Did they know Sisko would fix it and left him to it? Or was BC or someone else in there with Sisko really a watcher?

Unless they tie it altogether really well, it strikes me as something that doesn't really need to exist and just raises far more questions within the lore than it answers.

There was a Guardian of Forever vibe off the way the Laris clone spirited Picard away too, but the Guardian itself never really gave a shit what people did with it until after The Temporal Cold War, so it seems an unlikely link.
[close]

The Borg Queen continues to be brilliant.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 25, 2022, 08:13:02 PM
Those questions are pre-existing though, if
Spoiler alert
the watchers turn out to be Gary 7's mob from TOS
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on March 25, 2022, 10:39:03 PM
Spoiler alert
Why is Guinan young? She wasn't young in Time's Arrow which is set 200 years before this
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 25, 2022, 10:55:34 PM
Quote from: kalowski on March 25, 2022, 10:39:03 PM
Spoiler alert
Why is Guinan young? She wasn't young in Time's Arrow which is set 200 years before this
[close]

Spoiler alert
I guess she can make herself look younger as well as older. Wouldn't be surprised if that was why they added the line in Episode 1. Really don't see the point in bringing Whoopi back and then recasting her anyway as the explanation would have allowed her to appear in the past looking older as well. Feels a bit disrespectful.

The future that led to the encounter in the past in Time's Arrow hasn't happened, so I suppose that is why Guinan doesn't recognise Picard. Although I can't see a story reason why she needed to not know who Picard was other than padding.

She worked in 10 Forward before she worked in Ten Forward. Amazing that 10 Forward looks so similar 400 years later.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 25, 2022, 10:59:53 PM
Whoopi Goldberg was 36(!) when she filmed Time's Arrow. Ito Aghayere is 33.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on March 25, 2022, 11:07:02 PM
Like I said before it's great and awful at the same time.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 25, 2022, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on March 25, 2022, 10:55:34 PM
Spoiler alert
The future that led to the encounter in the past in Time's Arrow hasn't happened, so I suppose that is why Guinan doesn't recognise Picard. Although I can't see a story reason why she needed to not know who Picard was other than padding.

[close]

Scratch that. The Voyage Home still happened in the past, so no reason Time's Arrow shouldn't have too.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on March 25, 2022, 11:50:41 PM
Wait, are they implying that Guinan named Ten Forward on the Enterprise-D? It's called that because it's at the front of Deck 10, not because a civilian came on board and named it after a bar she used to own.

OK, they never said why it was called Ten Forward on screen, so I guess one could argue it isn't canon and can therefore be overriden by something subsequently seen on screen. Not that that stops them anyway, I suppose, and maybe not should it. But it's still shit.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Chairman Yang on March 26, 2022, 01:46:10 AM
I'm just reading along for a laugh and you seem to be implying there's a young Guinan who has a bar called 10 Forward who then serves on the Enterprise in the same bar then returns to Earth in order to meet Picard as an old, different person in a previous episode?

Is that about the size of it?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on March 26, 2022, 02:43:27 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on March 25, 2022, 10:55:34 PM
Spoiler alert
The future that led to the encounter in the past in Time's Arrow hasn't happened, so I suppose that is why Guinan doesn't recognise Picard. Although I can't see a story reason why she needed to not know who Picard was other than padding.

She worked in 10 Forward before she worked in Ten Forward. Amazing that 10 Forward looks so similar 400 years later.
[close]

Spoiler alert
But the events of Times Arrow have happened as they've gone back to just before the timeline is changed. Unless I'm missing something and the show was already in an alternate timeline before it went all Nazi.
My theory is that Guinan doesn't recognise Picard because this show is being made by useless twats who are rubbish at doing telly.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Why all the spoiler tags? I doubt this dog's egg of a show could be spoiled anymore than it is just by watching it.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 26, 2022, 07:05:24 AM
Quote from: Sherman Krank on March 26, 2022, 02:43:27 AMBut the events of Times Arrow have happened as they've gone back to just before the timeline is changed. Unless I'm missing something and the show was already in an alternate timeline before it went all Nazi.

But at the moment, the future is the evil one. They need to fix the timeline to make it the good one. But doing so would also presumably change the past.

Basically, it doesn't work. Even if we assume that Picard/Data didn't go back in time in Time's Arrow due to the evil future, that still doesn't work because of the bloke on the bus with the boombox who got attacked by Spock shouldn't have happened either.

Quote from: Chairman Yang on March 26, 2022, 01:46:10 AMI'm just reading along for a laugh and you seem to be implying there's a young Guinan who has a bar called 10 Forward who then serves on the Enterprise in the same bar then returns to Earth in order to meet Picard as an old, different person in a previous episode?

Is that about the size of it?

Yeah. She also fails to recognise Picard in 2024 despite meeting him in 1893.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Natnar on March 26, 2022, 08:05:15 AM
I'm guessing they'll just explain away the whole Guinan age thing by saying that she can choose to reverse her bodies ageing process since she can also choose to let herself grow old if she likes.

Still not sure what's going on with Q. Will it turn out that all Q's do have a limited lifespan or something?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Pranet on March 26, 2022, 10:08:37 AM
I'm enjoying it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on March 26, 2022, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Deanjam on March 25, 2022, 02:41:14 PMOccasionally I remember this at random times and just laugh. Do we reckon it was done so that they can just recast the part when Stewart is gone?

Now that we've got watchers, I'm assuming they've already filmed the scene with Picard on his deathbed croaking "The moment has been prepared for..."
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on March 26, 2022, 12:22:26 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on March 26, 2022, 07:05:24 AMBut at the moment, the future is the evil one. They need to fix the timeline to make it the good one. But doing so would also presumably change the past.
In the scene in the ruined chateau where the number 15 keeps coming up they say something along the lines of 'Today's the 12th so we've got 3 days to stop Q from doing whatever he's going to do to change the timeline'.
So they're not there to 'fix' something, they're there to stop it from happening and if it hasn't happened yet then they can't be in the evil future timeline because from their current perspective the thing that creates the evil future hasn't happened.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 26, 2022, 12:32:45 PM
Quote from: Sherman Krank on March 26, 2022, 12:22:26 PMIn the scene in the ruined chateau where the number 15 keeps coming up they say something along the lines of 'Today's the 12th so we've got 3 days to stop Q from doing whatever he's going to do to change the timeline'.
So they're not there to 'fix' something, they're there to stop it from happening and if it hasn't happened yet then they can't be in the evil future because from their current perspective the thing that creates the evil future hasn't yet happened.

But if the past from Time'a Arrow hasn't happened yet then the good future hasn't. But the future that had Kirk and Spock in the past has happened. So it doesn't make sense either way. It all comes about because they were too busy providing a pithy explanation for an accent that they've created a massive gaping continuity error that should have been obvious with one look at Memory Alpha.

If they do not fix the thing then the bad future happens. So until they definitively fix it, presumably it is still the bad future.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on March 26, 2022, 01:21:38 PM
Imagine taking your car to a local tyre place and asking them to fix a puncture and when the guy says 'Where's the puncture?' you say 'Oh it's not going to happen for 3 days but I want you to fix it now so I don't have to worry about it'.

If they'd arrived just after Q had done the thing then it would have made sense that Guinan didn't know Picard but they arrived just before so it doesn't as the future hasn't been changed yet.


This is what happens when you get SciFi shows written and produced by people like Chabon who don't really like or get SciFi and would much rather be doing their own stuff but having Star Trek on the old CV will open doors so whatever.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 26, 2022, 01:42:11 PM
Richard Curtis sci-fi.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 26, 2022, 02:49:31 PM
Always fun to see nerds get angry about how a conceptionally impossible thing must work
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on March 26, 2022, 04:06:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WC0tRHj.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Attila on March 26, 2022, 04:10:09 PM
Quote from: olliebean on March 26, 2022, 11:30:35 AMNow that we've got watchers, I'm assuming they've already filmed the scene with Picard on his deathbed croaking "The moment has been prepared for..."

will he turn into Peter Davison?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on March 26, 2022, 06:03:37 PM
At the end of the series Q will turn Picard into a real boy.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on March 26, 2022, 07:45:27 PM
Why are they even trying to fix a dark timeline anyway? It's not their own future or a time travel crisis that has affected their present is it? It's an alternate reality to which Q has finger-snapped them, no?

Prime Directive and Temporal Prime Directive aside, why does Team Picard give any kind of shit about what's happening in an alternate universe?

And even if they care for a good reason and then succeed in fixing it, are they going to try and do the same for infinity other universes they don't like the look of?

I am not being factious or trying to nitpick. These are genuine questions. Are they answered on screen?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on March 26, 2022, 10:22:15 PM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on March 26, 2022, 02:49:31 PMAlways fun to see nerds get angry about how a conceptionally impossible thing must work

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on March 26, 2022, 10:41:08 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on March 26, 2022, 07:45:27 PMWhy are they even trying to fix a dark timeline anyway? It's not their own future or a time travel crisis that has affected their present is it? It's an alternate reality to which Q has finger-snapped them, no?

Prime Directive and Temporal Prime Directive aside, why does Team Picard give any kind of shit about what's happening in an alternate universe?

And even if they care for a good reason and then succeed in fixing it, are they going to try and do the same for infinity other universes they don't like the look of?

I am not being factious or trying to nitpick. These are genuine questions. Are they answered on screen?

That would be a parallel universe that has always existed alongside but separate from their universe (like the one they used towards the end of DS9 when the main cast wanted a go at being the baddies to show their range as they were likely and correctly concerned about being typecast).
It appears what Q has done/is going do is change the reality of their universe so that history as they remember it is the same up until 2024 but from then on completely changes.

Of course Picard and co. wouldn't ever exist in the altered timeline as they're around 20 generations on so in 2024 Picard would have somewhere in region of a million great great great etc. grandparents and in order for him to be born all of those million people would have to live pretty much identical lives in both timelines as would half a million of their children, 250,000 of their grandchildren and so on.
But they can easily get around that by using Q and his seemingly infinite abilities as a get out of jail free card (Q stopped them popping out of existence, put them in the new timeline and gave them all high powered jobs so they could go back in time to stop him or something).
They could have also just said Q made Guinan forget Picard (but they didn't).

In fact I doubt there's a single Star Trek plot hole that can't be explained by just saying 'Q dun it mate'.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on March 27, 2022, 12:48:43 AM
The producers/writers or whoever have sort of stated that Q isn't responsible for the events but is trying to help instead as it is also affecting him somehow like his odd behaviour and loss of powers.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on March 27, 2022, 09:41:42 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on March 26, 2022, 10:22:15 PM


It's no Ballad of Bilbo Baggins
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on March 31, 2022, 12:55:04 PM
Has there been some sort of secret edict that all sci-fi/comic book things now have to revolve around parallel universes/fixing sacred timelines? They're all at it. At the same time. I think Star Wars is the only one that hasn't succumbed so far. Only a matter of time.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on March 31, 2022, 01:06:47 PM
Fixing timelines and stopping ancient prophecies are the most overused tropes in modern sci-fi
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: SOMK on March 31, 2022, 01:39:44 PM
The 60's (and 70's) to an extant were awash with the notion that technology would lead to collective elevation. 40+ years of flat income growth, the existential disappointment of winning the Cold war (after the post 90's high), Iraq, Obama, Trump. All these things have conspired to break the American liberal brain, there is a subconscious realisation that these ideas don't actually work anymore (so you double down on what is classic bad (such as racism, Russians, or Graham Linehan), and by pointing to it and saying "bad" you know you are "good"), but power is beholden to the idealogical structures that holds it up, social media reenforces this because the very structure of such applications is built of fairly reductive models of human beings, treating them like lever pressing pigeons in a Skinner lab (forgetting that humans are mildly more complicated than pigeons and don't live in highly controlled and constricted lab environments).

This sense of existential hopelessness could be argued to be behind what seems to be permeating a lot of mass culture, an acknowledgment that there is something fundamentally wrong with the present blocks your capacity to imagine a genuine and optimistic future, much like a severe ear ache stops you planning your holiday in Majorca. Capital realism innit?

Timeline fuckery is a great way to reset a franchise when actors grow out of roles or want to move on, it also can help cover up or account for licensing issues (how else will mutants be introduced in the Marvel universe?), which nu-trek has been dogged with. 
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on March 31, 2022, 02:44:14 PM
There has been talk in the last few episodes that there is hope for the future and always time to change and become better, which gives me a bit of hope that they might be trying to course-correct the darkness, but not much hope
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 01, 2022, 07:40:28 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on March 26, 2022, 07:45:27 PMWhy are they even trying to fix a dark timeline anyway? It's not their own future or a time travel crisis that has affected their present is it? It's an alternate reality to which Q has finger-snapped them, no?

Prime Directive and Temporal Prime Directive aside, why does Team Picard give any kind of shit about what's happening in an alternate universe?

And even if they care for a good reason and then succeed in fixing it, are they going to try and do the same for infinity other universes they don't like the look of?

I am not being factious or trying to nitpick. These are genuine questions. Are they answered on screen?

The answer is the treatment of Time Travel is inconsistent. Mostly, if there's been a fuck up to the timeline in the past that the heroes are somehow aware of, they have to go back and fix it and restore the 'correct' timeline. City on the Edge, Yesterday's Enterprise, First Contact, Past Tense etc. etc.

But then occasionally when it suits them, most notably in Abrams Trek, there are parallel universes, so it doesn't matter if an entire fucking planet with 6 billion people on it is wiped out.

Ep 5 down:

Spoiler alert
Up until Picard mentioned that she allegedly found some living spore Io, that was somehow important, my guess was that in actuality, Renee Picard is not supposed to be on the Europa mission and Q is trying to ensure she doesn't go. And the timeline has been fucked up by someone or something else. And Q in 2401 had already experienced Picard foiling him in 2024, and that's why he was so pissy with him.

Also I'm not sure how the Europa mission would be that important. I thought First Contact, which isn't for another 40 years was what really caused humanity to set aside war, hate etc.

Then again I suppose the same could be said of the Bell Riots, so that's a nitpick.

Borg Queen continues to be the best thing about the series. Although why the fuck did they leave her both activated with access to the ship's systems and unsupervised? I can appreciate Jurati probably doesn't want to play chess with the manipulative psycho bitch, but can they not cut her off from the ship's systems or something? She was able to cut her out of the transporter.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on April 02, 2022, 01:28:19 PM
I was really confused because the Irish Romulan woman looks completely different when not done up as an Irish Romulan, so I couldn't work out why Picard knew her.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Spoon of Ploff on April 02, 2022, 05:20:23 PM
I'm honestly starting to fear this is worse than Season 1.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on April 02, 2022, 05:58:22 PM
I can't tell if Alison Pill is a bad actress with a bad part, a good actress with a bad part, or legitimately drunk in some of these scenes.

The only other thing I've seen her in is Dear Wendy about ten years ago, where she was good (and got her mams out).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on April 02, 2022, 06:58:07 PM
Quote from: elliszeroed on April 02, 2022, 05:58:22 PMI can't tell if Alison Pill is a bad actress with a bad part, a good actress with a bad part, or legitimately drunk in some of these scenes.

The only other thing I've seen her in is Dear Wendy about ten years ago, where she was good (and got her mams out).

It's a bad part. Nothing about that character makes sense. I'd get drunk if I had to play her.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: jamiefairlie on April 02, 2022, 08:47:00 PM
Quote from: Deanjam on April 02, 2022, 06:58:07 PMIt's a bad part. Nothing about that character makes sense. I'd get drunk if I had to play her.

But would you get your mams out though?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 02, 2022, 09:54:42 PM
Watched up to episode four over the last couple days, not sure if I can go on. Guinan not recognising Picard has got to be one of the supreme writing oversights of all time, assuming it's never addressed. It's not even like there's that many Guinan episodes that the writers, if unfamiliar with Time's Arrow, would have had to check back through in order to realise the issue. I also like how Guinan judges humanity as being a hopeless waste of time based on the USA, or even just Los Angeles. America = humanity, and America's problems are humanity's problems. To be fair, Star Trek writers have always done that.

It's not quite as bad as season one just yet, but only because season one was devastatingly abominable.

Only positive thing I can say is that Seven and Raffi have some good chemistry and it feels like they'd be fun to watch in any context other than this (ie saying shit Marvel-esque one-liners and driving cars around fast).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 02, 2022, 09:57:48 PM
Quote from: Lemming on April 02, 2022, 09:54:42 PMWatched the first four episodes over the last couple days, not sure if I can go on. Guinan not recognising Picard has got to be one of the supreme writing oversights of all time, assuming it's never addressed. It's not even like there's that many Guinan episodes that the writers, if unfamiliar with Time's Arrow, would have had to check back through in order to realise the issue.

The explanation is that she doesn't recognise him because Picard came back from the bad future in which Times Arrow didn't happen.

And yes, I know we're getting into all sorts of paradoxes there.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 02, 2022, 10:06:04 PM
The explanation me and a couple of friends came up with when chatting about it the other day is that an evil Kirk and Spock must have come back in time to find the whales and that is why Kirk Thatcher has still clearly been injured on the bus in 2024 despite the normal future still not happening. Which makes sense of Guinan not recognising Picard.

Although Picard not wondering why Guinan didn't recognise him is weird. Almost as if the explanation that Time's Arrow didn't happen is one thought up after they made it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on April 02, 2022, 10:26:45 PM
If they're supposed to be in 2024, how come Data's grandad (or whoever he's supposed to be) has the use of Star Trek-level advanced flying forcefield technology?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 02, 2022, 10:28:45 PM
Because the series is written by a pack of baboons?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 02, 2022, 10:50:50 PM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on April 02, 2022, 10:26:45 PMIf they're supposed to be in 2024, how come Data's grandad (or whoever he's supposed to be) has the use of Star Trek-level advanced flying forcefield technology?

It is the 2024 of the Star Trek universe. In the DS9 episode Past Tense, they go to 6 months after this and they clearly have technology not of our current present. I'm happy that they at least acknowledge a divergent point after TOS, Voyager and Enterprise showed present day to be the same in the Star Trek universe.

Though World War 3 starting in 2026 seems pretty realistic for our universe too.

I still think this show is complete shit, by the way.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 02, 2022, 11:21:26 PM
If they're going down that route there is the problem of the Eugenics War of the late 20th century after which Khan legged it in his own starship (albeit a sublight one).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 02, 2022, 11:45:36 PM
Quote from: Alberon on April 02, 2022, 11:21:26 PMIf they're going down that route there is the problem of the Eugenics War of the late 20th century after which Khan legged it in his own starship (albeit a sublight one).

The explanation, I believe developed in the novels, is that the war was kept secret from much of society.

DS9 gets the date wrong but that is confirmed to be a production error rather than an intentional attempt to try to retcon it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on April 04, 2022, 09:02:35 PM
Okay, my drunken idea:

S1: Picard + Data. Picard runs around the galaxy to restore Data. Maybe has to fight Romulans who are against synthetic life. Some of them can be samurai as well, if you really fucking must.

S2: Picard + Borg. The Borg is without a queen so look to Picard, as their former Locutus. Picard turns the Borg into a Federation like democracy. Yay. Worf's son somehow becomes head of the Klingon High Council

S3: Picard + Q. Q always believed that Picard was the best that humanity has to offer, puts him through a bunch of tests, argues with other Q, Picard saves the galaxy. Throw in the Prophets/ Sisko for a nostalgia pop, if you really fucking must.

S4: Picard fucks Beverly Crusher. While Wesley and The Traveller watch. Captain Nog becomes an Admiral.

The end. Not fucking hard is it?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 04, 2022, 09:44:47 PM
Needs more Jeffries Tubes, but not bad apart from that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 04, 2022, 09:48:40 PM
The Eugenics war thing was brought up in an interview with show runners recently. I can't remember the ins and outs.

Here it is - https://trekmovie.com/2022/03/27/showrunner-explains-how-star-trek-picard-is-handling-time-travel-and-the-eugenics-wars/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mister Six on April 04, 2022, 11:09:51 PM
RLM has a new Picard video up: https://youtu.be/SyJBP1X1mLE
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on April 05, 2022, 10:29:25 AM
This show is so fucking dumb. I am not a massive Trek fan but even I can see how much worse it is than the old shows. RLM are right about how it just points out bad things rather than using them as allegories in an interesting story. And the characters do such stupid things. Why would Jurati get so close to the Borg Queen when she knows she is dangerous? Why is Rafi so ill-disciplined as a Starfleet officer? So many callback as well. Now proto-Data has turned up again and his daughter.

I am locked in to the end of the season to see how dumb it gets but after that I am out
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 05, 2022, 11:10:27 AM
And isn't the daughter the same actress who was the android in S1?
Just so deeply twisted back to look at itself without thinking it through.
Star Trek, you haven't thought it through!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 11:39:16 AM
At least it gives some semblance of an explanation to the "Daughter" painting from Season 1. It wasn't Data's daughter, it was some ancestors of his.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on April 05, 2022, 11:54:45 AM
Quote from: Alberon on April 02, 2022, 10:28:45 PMBecause the series is written by a pack of baboons?
Some baboons have been shown your post and are now using rudimentary sign language to demand an apology.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 05, 2022, 12:33:01 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 11:39:16 AMAt least it gives some semblance of an explanation to the "Daughter" painting from Season 1. It wasn't Data's daughter, it was some ancestors of his.
As if any of that was in their mind. Just looking for a way to shoehorn the Horta into it now.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: kalowski on April 05, 2022, 12:33:01 PMAs if any of that was in their mind. Just looking for a way to shoehorn the Horta into it now.

Yeah, I doubt it was the intent but at least it fixes one of the billion shit things in Season 1. All the while doing a load of other shit things.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 06:24:55 PM
They've announced everybody ever is back for Season 3.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 07:18:49 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 06:24:55 PMThey've announced everybody ever is back for Season 3.

Yep.

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1511388299973124099

No interest in S2 anymore. I want this NOW.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 05, 2022, 07:24:30 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 07:18:49 PMYep.

https://twitter.com/StarTrekOnPPlus/status/1511388196398985219

So they're doing what they should've done in the first place and having the full TNG re-union as they all attempt to save the galaxy on their zimmerframes.

Wonder will they really stay faithful to the TNG Klingon design for Worf like they said they would or will there be "subtle" nods to Discovery's Klingorc design integrated in?

EDIT: Riker has to do this in it: https://youtu.be/-OlyrAt4YsE?t=39
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 07:18:49 PMYep.

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1511388299973124099

No interest in S2 anymore. I want this NOW.



Picard is holding a gun in the trailer like an action hero.

I believe Mike Stoklasa described it as a rollercoaster into a grave. That seems quite apposite.

My early prediction is that Picard dies and they all have a card game in his memory.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 07:39:08 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 07:30:28 PMPicard is holding a gun in the trailer like an action hero.

I believe Mike Stoklasa described it as a rollercoaster into a grave. That seems quite apposite.

My early prediction is that Picard dies and they all have a card game in his memory.

I wonder if Worf is still the Capt of the Enterprise-E. There's a big convention at the weekend. Probably more stuff to come from all series then.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 05, 2022, 07:50:06 PM
I actually really want to know what happened to the Enterprise-E. Plenty of guff about the Ent-D and the Stargazer but I want to know where the current Enterprise is.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 07:57:18 PM
Quote from: Alberon on April 05, 2022, 07:50:06 PMI actually really want to know what happened to the Enterprise-E. Plenty of guff about the Ent-D and the Stargazer but I want to know where the current Enterprise is.

Worf was Captain at the time of the synths attacking Mars. It was in the book that was the prequel to the first series.

I was reading it but gave up after a line about some scientist that's working with Geordie at Utopia Planitia and his thought that was something like "hmmm strange, I don't remember her being a midget" or something like that. Was absolute shite.

There's also a Big Finish style audio play that's just came out for Picard. Has Seven & Raffi in it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 08:37:10 PM
Anyone else getting Lore vibes from Spiner? I keep watching it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 05, 2022, 08:52:49 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 08:37:10 PMAnyone else getting Lore vibes from Spiner? I keep watching it.

I presumed it was whatever member of the Soong dynasty that was in S1.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 05, 2022, 08:55:58 PM
No Wil Wheaton, no deal.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 08:56:32 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on April 05, 2022, 08:52:49 PMI presumed it was whatever member of the Soong dynasty that was in S1.

Ah yeah forgot about him.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 08:57:39 PM
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 05, 2022, 08:55:58 PMNo Wil Wheaton, no deal.

I'm sure he'll be in it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 05, 2022, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 05, 2022, 08:55:58 PMNo Wil Wheaton, no deal.

Nah, hope he appears in a badly photoshopped promo picture. His smirking in the Picard Aftershow has absolutely turned me on him.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on April 06, 2022, 08:12:06 AM
It doesn't matter who is in the cast. It will still be written and produced by fuckwits
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 06, 2022, 10:48:33 AM
Season 2 is absolute garbage.

As well as all the moronic writing (and I'm not talking about "not my Star Trek!"-type stuff here but really moronic, incompetent writing that makes you realise they don't remember what TV is like let alone Star Trek) it's just so horribly, horribly boring to look at.

That Season 3 trailer, as someone has already said, is what they should have done on Day 1. Old Man Picard is slumming it as a beekeeper or something and has to come out of retirement to do something or other. Preferably not save the whole universe though.

Even so, it will be shit. The expertise needed to write that show is simply not in the room. How many times have we been "cautiously optimistic" about a new trailer or a promised "change of direction" now? I count five. Five times.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 06, 2022, 11:20:58 AM
They started filming season 3 straight after season 2 so there's no time for them to learn lessons even if they realised they needed to.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 06, 2022, 02:57:05 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 05, 2022, 07:18:49 PMNo interest in S2 anymore. I want this NOW.

Quote from: Mobbd on April 06, 2022, 10:48:33 AMEven so, it will be shit. The expertise needed to write that show is simply not in the room. How many times have we been "cautiously optimistic" about a new trailer or a promised "change of direction" now? I count five. Five times.

The trouble is, these guys are bad at writing scripts and good at making trailers.

This is because they're business people, not creative people. They want to exploit a property and a market and that's about the extent of it.

Scripts are art. Trailers are marketing.

And we fall for it again and again.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on April 06, 2022, 04:42:08 PM
Releasing a trailer for season 3 halfway through season 2 reeks of desperation, particularly that trailer.
It's pretty much 'Wait don't go, look at all the lovely fan service you'll miss if you walk away now'.
I see Paramount+ have slashed the price of their monthly premium subs in the US from $10 to $2 from March to May (under the guise of a 1st anniversary celebration but who massively drops the price of a popular in demand product?).

Wouldn't be at all surprised if Frakes is the only one to make more than a just brief cameo appearance.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 06, 2022, 05:08:51 PM
Yeah, that's the feeling I got from it too. "Look! Suffer through this weird 2024 plot we've concocted for you, and later, we'll give you WORF!"

It has another feeling of "please, let us try again!".
Discovery season 2 felt like the writers saying "wait! Forgive us for season 1, look - here's PIKE AND SPOCK! Stay with us, please!"
The first episode of Picard season 2 felt like the writers saying "wait! Forgive us for season 1, look -   things are looking up now! Rios is a Starfleet captain, Starfleet is redeemed, everyone's having a good time, and we'll give you Q! Please keep watching!"
Strange New Worlds basically sells itself on saying "wait! Forgive us for everything we've done since 2017, we'll make a proper Star Trek series now! And look - Uhura's here! And Chapel! And M'Benga, you remember him, right? Please trust us!"
And now we have this - "wait! Forgive us for the batshit captured-by-ICE-in-2024 plot, here's Riker! And Troi, and Worf! Give us a chance!"

Can't keep falling for it at this point. Although I'm saying this as someone who has 100% fallen for the Strange New Worlds trailer, despite the disaster that it'll almost certainly ultimately turn out to be.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 06, 2022, 05:38:58 PM
I actually liked the first few Picard episodes of season 1, but then it seemed like it all got handed over to another bunch of people who had no idea what the initial plan was and the rest of the story just declined and declined until we got to the absolutely abysmal final episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Chairman Yang on April 06, 2022, 05:43:23 PM
So which characters are you gagging to see come back to Star Trek as old buffers?

Old Worf might be laugh, learning about how he's somehow further alienated his son, maybe he has a grandkid that hates him too.

Err... Old... Geordie? I mean Jesus you're already scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Personally I want Old Reg Barclay back, just a fully insane Dwight Schultz failing to recapture the character and causing grief on set 'cause he's forced to deliver this anaemic liberal patter. It'd be great.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Glebe on April 06, 2022, 05:48:49 PM
I haven't seen any of this but I watched a TNG episode on Pick TV yesterday in which Wesley helps a wounded Picard in a cave.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on April 06, 2022, 09:04:23 PM
As if there isn't enough fucking fan service in this season
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 06, 2022, 09:05:06 PM
Fan service and the hope is all that's keeping me going.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 06, 2022, 09:05:51 PM
I'd rather have shit Trek with good callbacks than no trek at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on April 07, 2022, 06:32:47 AM
It felt a little like American Horror story! Juggling the same actors around and mashing up genre tropes until you have enough of a shell of a plot to jam a bit of tween-trama level interpersonal conflict in there.

It's all over the place plot and theme wise, is this the system that abhors 44 minute stories somehow trying to reintegrate that kind of storytelling but having a seizure at the same time?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 07:12:12 AM
Some bits and bobs here

https://trekmovie.com/2022/04/06/picard-season-3-showrunner-on-tng-sendoff-more-starships-worfs-makeup-and-other-star-trek-cameos/

Worf will look like he usually does.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 07, 2022, 11:16:35 AM
Quote from: Lemming on April 06, 2022, 05:08:51 PMYeah, that's the feeling I got from it too. "Look! Suffer through this weird 2024 plot we've concocted for you, and later, we'll give you WORF!"

It has another feeling of "please, let us try again!".
Discovery season 2 felt like the writers saying "wait! Forgive us for season 1, look - here's PIKE AND SPOCK! Stay with us, please!"
The first episode of Picard season 2 felt like the writers saying "wait! Forgive us for season 1, look -   things are looking up now! Rios is a Starfleet captain, Starfleet is redeemed, everyone's having a good time, and we'll give you Q! Please keep watching!"
Strange New Worlds basically sells itself on saying "wait! Forgive us for everything we've done since 2017, we'll make a proper Star Trek series now! And look - Uhura's here! And Chapel! And M'Benga, you remember him, right? Please trust us!"
And now we have this - "wait! Forgive us for the batshit captured-by-ICE-in-2024 plot, here's Riker! And Troi, and Worf! Give us a chance!"

Can't keep falling for it at this point. Although I'm saying this as someone who has 100% fallen for the Strange New Worlds trailer, despite the disaster that it'll almost certainly ultimately turn out to be.

Exactly. It makes you wonder how they're getting their feedback though. How they detect audience disdain through the fug of bot tweets and positive reviews written by compromised critics.* How do they even know to desperately apologise? Do they watch it on broadcast and think "oh, fuck, what have we done?"

(*thanks to the poster here who told me that critics are unlikely to be bought. I'd like to temper my conspiracy theory to suggest that they're still bought albiet with "access" rather than cash in a briefcase. The poster who put me right also made me see that most critics are from once-alternative media such as podcasts and "geek culture" websites whose real take-home pay is the sort of dubious kudos that comes with tickets to premiers and the ability to Zoom with Akiva Goldsman.)

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:43:23 PMyeah this is the kind of nitpicking shite that makes me not want to talk to other Trek fans. Did you notice how very very incredibly British Picard is or is that okay because you saw TNG first and therefore it's sacred and holy?

I know what you mean and I do sometimes catch myself thinking "Christ, you've become such a nerd" when noticing and being riled by continuity errors.

BUT it's not that TNG is "sacred and holy;" that's hyperbole. It's just that part of the art of Star Trek is the creation of a consistent fictional universe. Failing to do that now is at best like releasing a Lego set that doesn't fit with any of the existing Lego sets (or writing a really long novel in which Chapter 800 artlessly forgets the important events of Chapter 10) or at worst an act of cultural vandalism in the interests of making money.

EDIT: Sorry Poirot, I didn't mean to dredge up an old comment. I thought I was looking at the current page of the thread but had gone into an older page somehow. I am old and easily confused.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 07, 2022, 11:21:35 AM
QuoteWorf is Worf
Klingons haven't been been featured in Star Trek: Picard (though we did see an archival photo of Worf in season one) and so when a fan asked if Worf would look more like the Discovery-style Klingons, Matalas simply assured with "Worf looks like Worf."

Hahaha. This makes no sense. The official line about the Klingon redesign is that they've always looked like that (i.e. a retcon) bar the hair being shaved during times of war (i.e. a double-retcon) and that the images on the screen aren't the real canon anyway but more like Sidney Paget's illustrations of Sherlock Holmes stories. Overlooking the ridiculousness of this claim for a second, if it were true, Worf should look like a Discovery Klingon.

Not that I want that.

Or any of this.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 12:56:18 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a positive comment about the DSC Klingons. Maybe they're trying to move away from the design. I suppose we'll know if any appear in SNW.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 07, 2022, 03:48:35 PM
If they don't look like TOS/Augment Klingons in SNW then they are fools. It would be cheaper and more interesting for fans.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 04:46:28 PM
This week is just another episode of nothing really happening. One or two good moments though/

Spoiler alert
Picard's chat with his ancestor and the look on his face when Adam Soong talks to him.
[close]

The Borg Queen/Jurati stuff is just ridiculous.

Spoiler alert
"The guards will be waking up soon". So she just goes straight back to the party?
[close]

Also the 23 mins earlier etc stuff can fuck right off. And how did they all manage to
Spoiler alert
get to the hospital so fast? 14 mins before he's on the hospital bed they are still hovering around talking endlessly for at least 10 mins.
[close]

New Trek is rife with little things like that and they are so easily avoidable.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on April 07, 2022, 06:56:44 PM
If you told me that I'd ever see an episode of Star Trek where
Spoiler alert
the Borg queen causes a distraction by belting out a showtune, which leads to an angry human Data running over a confused android Picard in his Tesla
[close]
I'm not sure I'd believe you.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 07:23:13 PM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on April 07, 2022, 06:56:44 PMIf you told me that I'd ever see an episode of Star Trek where
Spoiler alert
the Borg queen causes a distraction by belting out a showtune, which leads to an angry human Data running over a confused android Picard in his Tesla
[close]
I'm not sure I'd believe you.

I still don't really believe it and I've seen it!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 07, 2022, 07:35:56 PM
It is Star Trek in the same sense as the Captain Kirk Hot Wheels van is Star Trek.

It is Star Trek in the same sense as the Star Trek NFTs recently released are Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 07:50:55 PM
There's a new Star Trek game coming from the team behind the Telltale games and one review said it is by far the most Star Trek thing in recent memory or something along those lines. Really looking forward to it. Prodigy is getting a game as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SPhKVDVfBE&t=297s

So hopefully those will be good. I've been replaying Bridge Commander. Have a TARDIS mod in it. Can't beat it even with a DS( Dominion War size fleet.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on April 08, 2022, 01:43:30 AM
What I took from episode 6 is that Alison Pill wants it to be known she's up for doing a broadway musical.

Also for a minute there I actually thought they'd forgotten they'd made Picard a robot.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 08, 2022, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 07:50:55 PMThere's a new Star Trek game coming from the team behind the Telltale games and one review said it is by far the most Star Trek thing in recent memory or something along those lines. Really looking forward to it. Prodigy is getting a game as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SPhKVDVfBE&t=297s

That's so strange. So the ability to direct something that is plausibly Star Trek still exists. And the Star Trek Industrial Complex are happy to badge it as official but not canon or to welcome that talent into producing canon. So the way PIC and DIS look and feel are conscious choices more than careless incompetence? I don't understand!

Not that I want to knock Prodigy (after ten episodes I'm afraid I've concluded that it's not for me but it's definitely the best and most interesting New Trek series so far), how did Telltale manage that brilliant Spock voice while Prodders went for cribbing and frankingsteining shitty old broadcast dialogue of varyiable quality? Weird choice from the makers of Prodders, that. Especially when they didn't actually need to have Spock at all and could have, you know, got Tim Russ in to be Tuvok or something. Or got Ethan Peck to record new dialogue if they really, really, really wanted it to be Spock.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 08, 2022, 10:32:42 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 07, 2022, 07:35:56 PMIt is Star Trek in the same sense as the Star Trek NFTs recently released are Star Trek.

That actually hurt, yeah.

Mind you, I still maintain that the Weetabix stickers are Star Trek. Those were boss.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on April 08, 2022, 10:19:21 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 04:46:28 PM"The guards will be waking up soon". So she just goes straight back to the party?

She did say they'd be waking up with short term memory loss.

Overall this episode and the previous have been a bit dull, bar a few nice moments. Seems like they're struggling to figure out how to use their characters. They've already dispensed with some of them but Raffi and Seven don't really have anything to do, and Rios isn't faring much better.

Spoiler alert
Augment girl googling her dad and getting "mad scientist" as a result made me lol
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 08, 2022, 11:10:24 PM
All caught up with this now, just can't believe what I'm seeing. I genuinely don't understand what they're doing or even trying to do with this programme, in either season. It feels so odd, it's just Star Trek actors plucked from retirement and placed in a TV series that feels nothing like Star Trek, playing characters who don't really resemble their original selves. This kind of thing has been happening with all kinds of popular media franchises for years now, especially in the world of videogames, and I just can't understand it. Is it just big media studios sticking old licenses on new projects to get brand recognition?

Not trying to do a performative "oh god it's so bad I can't take it" kind of thing, I just can't understand why this exists at all. It defies explanation. It's like if they decided to make a new series of Blackadder, except it was a gritty 12-part drama about a man (played by Atkinson, and named Edmund Blackadder) going through a divorce or something. Just not recognisable at all as a part of the same franchise, beyond returning actors and a few concepts lifted at random (eg Borg Queen, plus the mention of Gary fucking Seven). Did they think existing Star Trek fans would like this? Did they think it'd grab new non-fan viewers? It is a money laundering operation?

Anyway I think just about everyone would agree it doesn't work on its own merits either. The plot is simultaneously highly urgent and totally meandering, leading to episodes like this one where nothing happens for about half an hour and then robo-Picard gets run over by Brent Spiner.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on April 09, 2022, 04:16:19 PM
I agree with Lemming. And, I hate to be nasty or cynical, but I wonder if the actors who read the scripts know they're bad, care that they're terrible, or if they just see it as a job, work. Some of the pre-release interviews and the praise the actors have for the show is baffling.

On the GOT thread, there's a Youtube video of the cast talking about the final season that feels a tad relevent.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 09, 2022, 05:18:35 PM
Quote from: elliszeroed on April 09, 2022, 04:16:19 PMI agree with Lemming. And, I hate to be nasty or cynical, but I wonder if the actors who read the scripts know they're bad, care that they're terrible, or if they just see it as a job, work. Some of the pre-release interviews and the praise the actors have for the show is baffling.

On the GOT thread, there's a Youtube video of the cast talking about the final season that feels a tad relevent.

There is a lot of that in new-Trek. Gushing praise for what is very generic poor tier TV, but then I suppose they have to do that. The money must be good enough to go "fuck it, I'll do it" as Trek actors always have the conventions and cruises for a good cash injection every year.

It's a shame, there was a lot of promise but they've basically dragged 1 episode of plot over the past 4. At this stage I'm just here for the references to stuff I know. I just hope that having the original cast all together will make up for the shite in S3.

Although I'm of the view that Frakes can fuck off.

Made some comment about people who weren't enjoying DSC like "Well they are wrong and don't know what they're talking about, this is incredible TV and if they don't like it something is wrong with them" or words to that effect.

Fuck that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 09, 2022, 05:27:34 PM
Spiner, at least, seems agonisingly aware of the shitness. Seem to recall that just before season one aired, he put out some very lukewarm remark on Twitter. He had a line in the most recent episode that went like "I have no interest in being part of... whatever this is", and his delivery sounded a little too real.

The rest of the cast are turning in strong performances IMO even if it's all for a lost cause. Doubly impressive when they're working with such crap material. Maybe they just (fairly) see it as a chance to raise their profile and show off their skills on the way to getting cast in something better. Or maybe it's hard to tell how naff and nonsensical it is while you're actually filming it and presumably having fun getting to act, and only when you watch the final product does the realisation hit. I do wonder how Jeri Ryan feels about it all especially.

Stewart is the big mystery. Before season one he was telling some bullshit story about how he thought wild dogs couldn't drag him back to Star Trek, but then suddenly Kurtzman appeared in a ray of holy light at his doorstep with the single greatest script he'd ever received, and he was so moved by the quality of the story and its deep meanings that he just had to take part. Someone, maybe RLM, suggested the whole thing was a vanity project for him and he's essentially got his head jammed fully up his arse. I remember another pre-season 1 interview where he was talking about Brexit and political division or something and enthused about how Star Trek: Picard would ultimately address all these issues in a truly brilliant way (by having AI-tentacles come out of a big portal in the sky while Bruce Maddox dies of organ failure and Seven kicks a Romulan incest ninja down a big hole).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 09, 2022, 05:46:37 PM
He replied to a tweet asking why all the Soong Family apart from Soji were male.

His reply was "Because I play them" which i liked.

Apparently he has it in his contract to no longer play Data so I highly doubt he'll appear as him in S3 but don't know if Lore or B4 fall in to that contract.

I like Rios, and if he stayed behind with the lovely and they had a spin-off of a cigar smoking starship captain coming to terms with 21st century earth I'd watch it. With different writers, and a guarantee that the last episode wouldn't end with him in Montana grey and aged and givin Picard a knowing wink just before he beams up pre-Vulcan handshake/piss up.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 09, 2022, 05:54:49 PM
Bet he plays an aged up Lore.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 09, 2022, 06:04:44 PM
(MID SEASON 3 SNEAK PEEK)
PICARD: Mr Data... is that you?
DATA: No, Captain. I am Data (pronounced dah-ta). I was built to similar specifications to Data, both in personality and appearance, but am clearly objectively not Data. Rather, I am Data (dah-ta).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 09, 2022, 09:13:41 PM
Proper laughed out loud when Picard got ran over by Hitler-Data man.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 09, 2022, 10:38:44 PM
Why am I still watching this. Each episode is worse than the previous one. How can they fuck up a Q storyline like this?
That fucking song!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Old Nehamkin on April 10, 2022, 08:21:39 AM
Quote from: Lemming on April 09, 2022, 05:27:34 PMStewart is the big mystery. Before season one he was telling some bullshit story about how he thought wild dogs couldn't drag him back to Star Trek, but then suddenly Kurtzman appeared in a ray of holy light at his doorstep with the single greatest script he'd ever received, and he was so moved by the quality of the story and its deep meanings that he just had to take part. Someone, maybe RLM, suggested the whole thing was a vanity project for him and he's essentially got his head jammed fully up his arse.

It's worth remembering that Stewart was enthusiastically on-board with Picard being reconfigured as a gung-ho romantic action hero in the TNG movies, and that even in the latter seasons of the show he had already been pushing the producers for Picard to have more stories along those lines - hence stuff like that episode that's effectively a Die Hard pastiche with Picard alone on the Enterprise picking off a gang of infiltrators or the two-parter where he's rather inexplicably doing a sexy deep-cover spy mission on a pirate ship. I'm not fully convinced that he really understands what made Picard a compelling character in the first place, or if he once did, it's long been overrided by a vain, boyish yearning to be a badass action star.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blofelds Cat on April 10, 2022, 09:37:13 AM
https://www.facebook.com/rickygervais/videos/patrick-stewart-has-seen-everything/276783622445998/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on April 10, 2022, 10:18:58 AM
Quote from: Malcy on April 09, 2022, 05:18:35 PMIt's a shame, there was a lot of promise but they've basically dragged 1 episode of plot over the past 4. At this stage I'm just here for the references to stuff I know. I just hope that having the original cast all together will make up for the shite in S3.

My worry is that they've put all their stock in getting the gang back together, and none in improving the scripts. S2 is feeling increasingly like a bunch of half-arsed fan-fic writers had a fight, and nobody won - least of all the viewers. Given the cast, I suspect that S3 will feel even more like that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 10, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
Quote from: Old Nehamkin on April 10, 2022, 08:21:39 AMIt's worth remembering that Stewart was enthusiastically on-board with Picard being reconfigured as a gung-ho romantic action hero in the TNG movies, and that even in the latter seasons of the show he had already been pushing the producers for Picard to have more stories along those lines - hence stuff like that episode that's effectively a Die Hard pastiche with Picard alone on the Enterprise picking off a gang of infiltrators or the two-parter where he's rather inexplicably doing a sexy deep-cover spy mission on a pirate ship. I'm not fully convinced that he really understands what made Picard a compelling character in the first place, or if he once did, it's long been overrided by a vain, boyish yearning to be a badass action star.


On one of the TNG Blu-ray sets, there's a roundtable discussion between several writers for the show. Ronald D. Moore describes the script he was extremely disappointed when it wasn't approved. He and Ira Steven Behr had come up with an ambitious story about Picard facing his worst fear, which was that he had a vision of the future in which he was an admiral with a desk job instead of being the captain of the Enterprise. The initial pitch goes well, but it was ultimately vetoed by Stewart himself in favour of a lighter story about Picard going in vacation, "Captain's Holiday".
The episode, the one that brought us the Risa planet and the Horga'hn statuette of fertility, is some sub-Indiana Jones stuff, and it's hard to see what could draw Stewart to it.

But, as the parties involved remember, he clearly stated what he wanted.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Captain%27s_Holiday_(episode)#Story_and_script

QuoteThe storyline that this episode ultimately went with grew out of Patrick Stewart's desire for more "sex and shooting" for Picard. Ira Steven Behr recollected, "Patrick kept saying that the trouble with the show is there's not enough f-ing and f-ing: fighting and fornicating."

The character of Vash, the fierce (and sexually liberated) woman who's Picard's love interest in the episode, was an idea by Patrick Stewart. Coincidentally, he gave the part to actress Jennifer Hetrick. Coincidentally, she was named as the "other woman" during Stewart's divorce a couple of months later.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 10, 2022, 05:32:29 PM
I have a Horga'hn in my living room.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on April 10, 2022, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 10, 2022, 05:32:29 PMI have a Horga'hn in my living room.

Do you call it Sharo'hn?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 10, 2022, 07:05:05 PM
Even in light of Stewart's desire to have Picard punch people/engage in liaisons with women half his age/ride dune buggies, it's hard to see what draws him to Star Trek: Picard, unless it's just a single-minded desire to get back on the screen under any circumstances (though I can't imagine he's short of work). He's not doing much action hero stuff in this show, mainly just slurring his way through awful lines and looking panicked. He comes across less like a tough action man and more like one of those old men you see leaving conservative clubs at 3 AM, drunk out of their minds with piss trailing down their trouser legs.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: jamiefairlie on April 10, 2022, 08:01:16 PM
His performance is really poor isn't it? It's not just that everything else is shit.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Pranet on April 10, 2022, 09:05:46 PM
Ok, I'm not spewing bile through my eyeballs like the rest of you every time I watch this (I'm finding it a reasonably diverting action adventure series with Picard and Seven in it), but yeah
Spoiler alert
that song
[close]
is the single worst thing ever conceived by humanity and I had to open another browser window and look at something else until it had finished.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on April 10, 2022, 10:04:31 PM
It's a testament to Patrick Stewart's skills as an actor that he was able to create and embody the character of Jean-Luc Picard - literally one of the greatest TV characters of all time - and seemingly not understand anything about why he was such a great character.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: evilcommiedictator on April 11, 2022, 01:41:42 AM
So no-one is left on the ship, so is it still in France? Is it cloaked in NY somewhere?

I know, the life of one police officer is worth the life of the Borg Queen, the only person who can get us back to our time, so I'll shoot her, and let here take control of me, so I can become the new borg queen and the villan of S3, because as we know Picard can only hire 10 actors, and they must all appear in each series
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 11, 2022, 08:39:50 PM
Quote from: Old Nehamkin on April 10, 2022, 08:21:39 AMIt's worth remembering that Stewart was enthusiastically on-board with Picard being reconfigured as a gung-ho romantic action hero in the TNG movies, and that even in the latter seasons of the show he had already been pushing the producers for Picard to have more stories along those lines - hence stuff like that episode that's effectively a Die Hard pastiche with Picard alone on the Enterprise picking off a gang of infiltrators or the two-parter where he's rather inexplicably doing a sexy deep-cover spy mission on a pirate ship. I'm not fully convinced that he really understands what made Picard a compelling character in the first place, or if he once did, it's long been overrided by a vain, boyish yearning to be a badass action star.


The Die Hard episode was great. As a one-off. It was when he became Action Picard in the movies, and every story had to have a "bad guy" and invevitable face-off that it was very shit.

There was a book doing the rounds that had copies of missives from Stewart to the film execs for one of the films, and he was really pushing for the film to be like this. He said something like "diplomatic Picard - the audience have seen that, and they want something different". Picard and Spiner were basically holding hte execs to ransom, saying they wanted X or they wouldn't be in the film. IIRC's Spiner's demands were less shit, but they were still shit.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 11, 2022, 08:44:58 PM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on April 10, 2022, 10:04:31 PMIt's a testament to Patrick Stewart's skills as an actor that he was able to create and embody the character of Jean-Luc Picard - literally one of the greatest TV characters of all time - and seemingly not understand anything about why he was such a great character.

Yep, that's what it feels like now. But Stewart has also played substantial stage roles to great acclaim, so I'm not sure "he was shallow all along" really explains it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 11, 2022, 08:45:54 PM
One for our American readers to try and not too sure of the validity but here's the audio if not.

323 - 634 - 5567

Call that number from Q's card and get this maybe?

https://sndup.net/wgdw/

I think it could be an impersonator.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 11, 2022, 08:50:23 PM
You can be a diplomat all you want but surely the job of a Captain would lead to dealing with situations like 'Starship Mine'? Could you be a captain without having a bit of cop on to deal with shit like that?

Agree that he very much seems like a doddery old man ala ' All Good Things@ where they all humoured him. Its believable to a point but only in the hands of good writers. I'm depressed enough without Trek being a disappointment.

I watched one of my favourite DS9 episodes 'The Ascent' a few nights ago. Zero Sci-Fi plot, just good plots, great actors and in 5  mins it was still better than anything Kurtzman Trek has offered up.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on April 11, 2022, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 11, 2022, 08:45:54 PMOne for our American readers to try and not too sure of the validity but here's the audio if not.

323 - 634 - 5567

Call that number from Q's card and get this maybe?

https://sndup.net/wgdw/

I think it could be an impersonator.


The Red Letter Media lads rang that on their most recent video review of Picard and got the message. Pretty sure it's the real De Lancie.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Das Reboot on April 13, 2022, 07:18:12 AM
Quote from: olliebean on April 10, 2022, 05:34:39 PMDo you call it Sharo'hn?

+1 karma
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 13, 2022, 06:45:22 PM
Was expecting ep. 6 to be a lot worse and far cringier based on the comments than it ended up being. It was meh. Actually a lot of this season is falling into "meh" category for me. 5/10 effort overall so far. Is funny that notData's daughter, notSoji, hadn't Googled her famous scientist Dad before now though.

Do wonder are they lining up to do something really stupid like having everyone except Picard and Jurati stranded in the 21st century so there's room for the TNG reunion in season 3. Just getting a wee vibe with Rios falling for the doctor and Seven enjoying not having Borg bits on her face.

I'm sure they won't, especially with a fan favourite legacy character like Seven. But at the same time, I wouldn't completely put it past them.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 13, 2022, 06:50:53 PM
Nothing is left of what made Seven the character fans loved anyway aside from Jeri Ryan herself.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 13, 2022, 07:02:31 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 13, 2022, 06:50:53 PMNothing is left of what made Seven the character fans loved anyway aside from Jeri Ryan herself.

Nothing is left of what made Picard the character fans loved anyway aside from Patrick Stewart himself.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:04:53 PM
Jeri Ryan is definitely in S3. And Patrick Stewart's wife is in the next ep.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 13, 2022, 07:07:30 PM
Quote from: grainger on April 13, 2022, 07:02:31 PMNothing is left of what made Picard the character fans loved anyway aside from Patrick Stewart himself.


Picard is literally dead. Patrick Stewart plays a robot zombie now.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:12:16 PM
That's a point, did the doctor not say that all his organs were functioning properly or something? Does he have android organs as well?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:13:15 PM
Going to be good to see Seven interact with the TNG crew. She was in the original draft of Nemesis.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 13, 2022, 07:13:53 PM
It is so stupid. They had the perfect opportunity to make him human again by having the alternative Picard not die.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 13, 2022, 07:16:09 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:13:15 PMGoing to be good to see Seven interact with the TNG crew. She was in the original draft of Nemesis.

Wasn't that just a cameo? Replaced by Janeway.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted Seven as part of the main cast. She was the most well known character and it would have been nice to improve the gender balance of the cast.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on April 13, 2022, 07:31:22 PM
Marina Sirtis has said than Ryan was used as a potential replacement for Troi if she didn't accept the producers lowball offer. Ryan has said that she was offered a part in Nemesis, but it wasn't as a replacement to Troi, though it seems that it was bigger than the cameo that Kate Mulgrew ended up playing. So I presume there was more than one version of the script, because there's no extended role for her to play in the released version, if she was supposed to be in it with Troi.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:38:22 PM
Yeah it was definitely a proper part as such. I think she turned it down as she didn't see the need for the character to be there.

The proposed Nemesis sequel had a part for her and other DS9/VOY characters. Was a big emergency that was too much for the Enterprise crew to handle alone so a Federation Think Tank was created in order to solve the issue.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:39:34 PM
YT version of people would prefer. Sometimes Twitter flings things in to 240p.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Jyz2pVqrEkI&t=1s
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on April 13, 2022, 09:55:27 PM
For a second I was genuinely impressed at how accurate the voices were, until I realised ...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 10:14:01 PM
Ach I posted that in the wrong thread didn't I?

While I'm here though, this is apparently an Easter egg but I'm not convinced it's De Lancie.

It's if you call the number from the W calling card that he gives Soong and meant to post it days ago.

https://sndup.net/wgdw/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on April 13, 2022, 10:16:48 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 13, 2022, 07:13:53 PMIt is so stupid. They had the perfect opportunity to make him human again by having the alternative Picard not die.

That is what they did, isn't it? They just didn't mention it. But otherwise, how would the doctor not realise that he wasn't human? Surely Picard isn't an android now in the same way that Seven/Annika isn't an ex-Borg now.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 13, 2022, 10:26:46 PM
But the doc's defibrator exploded when she tried to restart his heart, and Seven or someone had a line about how he's "had a few implants", which I assumed was their attempt to keep the doc in the dark about the fact that Picard is an android zombie from the future (still can't type that without laughing). The doc cited the defibrator exploding when she was grilling Rios with the whole "who are you really" interrogation, and said it was impossible for the equipment to malfunction like that, so the only explanation is that Picard is still a robot.

Which doesn't make sense of course if Seven's no longer ex-Borg. Unless evil alternate Picard also had the same exact nonsensical adventure as our Picard a couple years ago and ended up in an identical android body.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 10:28:54 PM
There was even a reply of "which one" in response to that which was met with "all of them".
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 13, 2022, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: Lemming on April 13, 2022, 10:26:46 PMWhich doesn't make sense of course if Seven's no longer ex-Borg. Unless evil alternate Picard also had the same exact nonsensical adventure as our Picard a couple years ago and ended up in an identical android body.

According to Q in the second episode, Evil Picard does have a synth Golem body. When showing off Alternate Dukat's skull, he mentions that Dukat was responsible for Evil Picard needing a full body transplant.

Which sucks, because Dukat's nemesis should still be Sisko, even in the Alternate reality.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 14, 2022, 09:33:15 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:38:22 PMThe proposed Nemesis sequel had a part for her and other DS9/VOY characters. Was a big emergency that was too much for the Enterprise crew to handle alone so a Federation Think Tank was created in order to solve the issue.

Oh god.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 01:46:04 AM
Quote from: Malcy on April 13, 2022, 07:38:22 PMThe proposed Nemesis sequel had a part for her and other DS9/VOY characters. Was a big emergency that was too much for the Enterprise crew to handle alone so a Federation Think Tank was created in order to solve the issue.

Was this the proposed sequel where Shinzon somehow comes back to life and and goes travelling through time to recruit Khan and some other previous Star Trek baddies? So Picard would have to also go back in time to get Data back, go get Kirk & Spock and also Johnny fucking Archer for some reason?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 15, 2022, 02:04:28 AM
https://scifiheaven.net/2006/10/brent-spiner-not-happy-with-prequel-rumors-reveals-the-star-trek-xi-that-could-have-been/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on April 15, 2022, 03:04:34 AM
Mate of mine suggested a good (stoned) idea for a Picard series: do it like that Deep Space 9 episode where they went back to the TOS tribbles episode, except it's a game of cat and mouse between Picard and Q as he goes back through old TNG episodes changing things and Picard and his new pals have to get things back on course. TBF it's a bit too much like the premise of Quantum Leap (which opens up other problems) if you're not stoned, and Christ knows how difficult it is to digitally comp people into old TV episodes these days (he reckoned it was a piece of piss), but I'd definitely watch that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 15, 2022, 10:41:39 AM
None of these ideas - "baddies", revisiting old episodes - contain any elements that actually make Trek good.




Yes, sequels or callbacks to old episodes can be fun, but they're not remotely sufficient for an entire series or a standalone movie. And I'd argue that the perceived need to have a "villain" in every TNG movie was a major problem for the movie series.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on April 15, 2022, 11:12:47 AM
Can't believe they decided to cast the one actor who to my eye looks like an exact cross between Dwight Schultz and Doctor Bashir in this latest episode. Really confused me for a fair few scenes until I realised he was neither and actually that other bloke from BSG.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on April 15, 2022, 11:38:50 AM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on April 15, 2022, 11:12:47 AMCan't believe they decided to cast the one actor who to my eye looks like an exact cross between Dwight Schultz and Doctor Bashir in this latest episode. Really confused me for a fair few scenes until I realised he was neither and actually that other bloke from BSG.

Same! I thought it was Bashir!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 15, 2022, 10:10:33 PM
Sat numb throughout episode seven. Is what it is. The Picard's mind stuff was thoroughly awful, start to finish. Only reaction I had to anything was sitting upright and saying "hang on what the fuck" when Rios beamed the doc and her kid aboard the ship, that could go off in an interesting direction. I do wonder if they're clearing the pieces off the board so to speak to prepare for the "please trust us this time, we'll try again!" direction that season three might take. Rios seems to be setting up to do the whole "I am so deeply in love with this doctor from the past that I cannot return to my own time, I belong here now, goodbye forever" thing.

The Guinan actor does a pretty phenomenal Whoopi impression, exact same cadence and all.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 10:26:53 PM
Spoiler alert
So Picard's Dad didn't beat his wife and just locked her in a room cos she was crazy and wouldn't get treatment.

That's makes him a bit less horrible... I guess? Not sure how much though. I know Yvette has the right to refuse treatment, but surely there's a better way to deal with that in the 24th century than locking her in a room? Maybe a medical professional was on their way over to Chateau Picard to deem her not compos mentis so Maurice could make her get treatment but tragedy struck first.

Presumably the rest of the memory is Young Picard unlocking the door to let her out and she runs out and hurls herself off the roof with her brains being graphically splattered on the ground in front of him.
[close]

Quote from: Lemming on April 15, 2022, 10:10:33 PMOnly reaction I had to anything was sitting upright and saying "hang on what the fuck" when Rios beamed the doc and her kid aboard the ship, that could go off in an interesting direction.

Yeah, why the fuck did he do this? That was stupid.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 10:35:02 PM
Also, is it just me or is nu-Trek fixated on characters being nuts, seeing other people that no one else can, having repressed memories and other people having to go into their mind to help them?

Cos even without going back and checking through all of Disco's insanity, I feel like we've done that before. Several times.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 15, 2022, 10:44:58 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 10:35:02 PMAlso, is it just me or is nu-Trek fixated on characters being nuts, seeing other people that no one else can, having repressed memories and other people having to go into their mind to help them?

Cos even without going back and checking through all of Disco's insanity, I feel like we've done that before. Several times.

There seem to be a lot of "mental health is horrible" shit going on. And it being a stigma still rather than being one of the millions of things Star Trek's positive future can sort.

It's just shit.

I get it. Picard thinking his mum was poorly tested but in fact his Dad was trying to do the right thing but that could be considered the right thing in the 20th or even 19th century. NOT the 24th.

It's a fucking shambles the whole thing. It's like 5 different shoes at once.

I like the Rios stuff. There's a good series just in that. The dilemma of do I stay? Or do I bring them to future like Gillian from TVH. But then who does the good at the clinic that she's worked so hard to build. It's such a mess. We're just a small bunch of fans and if we could have wrote it better.

I hate what Trek has become but still happy there's LD and Prodigy. If we have to have all this shite to get great stuff like that then so be it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 10:55:26 PM
I know you said Jeri is to appear in season 3, but I still reckon the current cast will get cut down a bit to make room for the TNG reunion. So I can see Rios staying in the 21st century, even though it'd be massively irresponsible for him to be let do that.

Picard did say his Dad was a bit 'traditional' at some point in TNG. But if he really had nothing other than "go in your crazy room, woman" then that's a bit too traditional.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 15, 2022, 11:01:53 PM
"You didn't drink your coffee. You always drink your coffee "
This is Picard S2.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: kalowski on April 15, 2022, 11:01:53 PM"You didn't drink your coffee. You always drink your coffee "
This is Picard S2.

Presumably a habit she picked up from Janeway.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 15, 2022, 11:06:24 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 10:55:26 PMI know you said Jeri is to appear in season 3, but I still reckon the current cast will get cut down a bit to make room for the TNG reunion. So I can see Rios staying in the 21st century, even though it'd be massively irresponsible for him to be let do that.

Picard did say his Dad was a bit 'traditional' at some point in TNG. But if he really had nothing other than "go in your crazy room, woman" then that's a bit too traditional.

Also, where is his brother in all this?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:09:45 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 15, 2022, 11:06:24 PMAlso, where is his brother in all this?

Locked in the attic for being a proper mental.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:14:39 PM
Picard's mum got locked in a room for being a big mental. And he has a robot cock.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:17:38 PM
Bertha Picard. And her lovely son, Robot Picard.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:18:23 PM
Robot Picard and his burned up brother, Robert Picard.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 15, 2022, 11:20:47 PM
God it's bad. Do I continue with it assuming it's going to suddenly improve. It's not.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: bakabaka on April 15, 2022, 11:21:32 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:18:23 PMand his burned up brother, Robert Picard.
the famous hologram doctor?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: bakabaka on April 15, 2022, 11:21:32 PMthe famous hologram doctor?

Tune in for Season 4! It'll not be shit like the first three seasons!

Spoiler alert
This is just a joke. I am aware that this piece of shit is flushed after season 3.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:24:02 PM
Quote from: kalowski on April 15, 2022, 11:20:47 PMGod it's bad. Do I continue with it assuming it's going to suddenly improve. It's not.

I tell you. His mother might be called Bertha Picard but you should give this show a wide berth!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 15, 2022, 11:24:22 PM
Picardo said he was approached to appear in this but nothing ever came of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 15, 2022, 11:25:40 PM
Quote from: kalowski on April 15, 2022, 11:20:47 PMGod it's bad. Do I continue with it assuming it's going to suddenly improve. It's not.

People have had that attitude since episode 1 of DSC and we've mostly stuck with it.

"Just one more episode and it will get better, I'm sure of it this time"...

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:26:02 PM
My brain is broken. Can somebody give a 24th century piece of technology to a 21st century Doctor to fix my brain. They will obviously be better suited to using it than the person from the 24th century.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 15, 2022, 11:34:39 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:26:02 PMMy brain is broken. Can somebody give a 24th century piece of technology to a 21st century Doctor to fix my brain. They will obviously be better suited to using it than the person from the 24th century.

Yeah what was with that?! I know it just seemed to have a big button on it but even still.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 15, 2022, 11:25:40 PMPeople have had that attitude since episode 1 of DSC and we've mostly stuck with it.

Well I've ditched Disco. Even if it didn't become less convenient to watch it in S4, I still would've ditched it. Burnham's the greatest hero of all time. Wonderful, but there's only so much of that I can watch.

I'm not finding Picard terrible, my reaction is more along the lines of: "the fuck?"
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 16, 2022, 12:01:41 AM
They could get Chris Chibnall in for Season 3 and it would be an improvement.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 16, 2022, 01:09:51 AM
Quote from: kalowski on April 15, 2022, 11:20:47 PMGod it's bad. Do I continue with it assuming it's going to suddenly improve. It's not.

I'd say try to enjoy it in an MST3k kind of way, but it's not even really good for that.* It's so weird. It's like AI-generated television or something, every episode just formed of random bad ideas that don't feel connected to each other, with elements from Star Trek selected at random and placed (often in unrecognisable form) in situations that feel thematically wrong.

Like Wonderful Butternut says above, the main reaction it inspires for me is "the fuck?". I don't understand why it exists, who it's for, what they're trying to do with it, how any of this stuff made it through whatever quality control process they may or may not have in place, etc. It's just bizarre in a way that's hard to explain. Might as well make a show called PEEP SHOW: MARK which is about an unrecognisable Mark Corrigan living in a completely different place in a different part of the world and is centred around a non-comedic plot in which he, I dunno, learns to become a car mechanic or something, with the only connection to the original Peep Show being repeated verbal references to completely random shit that fans remember, like eating a dog or pissing on his boss' desk. Just strange, disconnected from the source material to the point where you can't even really tell why they bothered slapping the license on it, and more boring and confusing than anything else.

*although "Picard has a robotic cock from the future now" and "Brent Spiner ran over Picard in a Tesla" are two facts that should get you laughing the instant they enter your head
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 16, 2022, 01:12:06 AM
For the record, the actor who appears in the final scene of the episode and who drinks the white wine is another veteran from a superior 2000s show, as it's Jay Karnes, "Dutch" from The Shield, who now has longer hair.

Also, mental health wasn't a concept in France in the 24th century.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on April 16, 2022, 02:33:39 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 15, 2022, 11:26:02 PMMy brain is broken. Can somebody give a 24th century piece of technology to a 21st century Doctor to fix my brain. They will obviously be better suited to using it than the person from the 24th century.

Doctors are trained to use medical equipment to solve medical problems, that's a piece of medical equipment and she's a doctor.

What's so confusing about that? You're just looking for problems now!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on April 16, 2022, 08:12:19 AM
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 16, 2022, 01:12:06 AMFor the record, the actor who appears in the final scene of the episode and who drinks the white wine is another veteran from a superior 2000s show, as it's Jay Karnes, "Dutch" from The Shield, who now has longer hair.

Also, mental health wasn't a concept in France in the 24th century.

I thought he would be a Q. But no, we'll spend next episode with Picard and Guinan trying to get out of jail/ prison district.  So much filler, so many scenes that don't advance the plot or characters meaningfully.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 16, 2022, 08:18:27 AM
Quote from: elliszeroed on April 16, 2022, 08:12:19 AMI thought he would be a Q. But no, we'll spend next episode with Picard and Guinan trying to get out of jail/ prison district.  So much filler, so many scenes that don't advance the plot or characters meaningfully.
Exactly. I thought the same. I quite liked the idea of meeting a new Q and seeing how they were all connected but no, he's a cop who brings a massive swat team with him.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on April 16, 2022, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 16, 2022, 12:01:41 AMThey could get Chris Chibnall in for Season 3 and it would be an improvement.

Chibnall would give Q an origin story.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 16, 2022, 09:59:04 AM
Quote from: olliebean on April 16, 2022, 09:41:00 AMChibnall would give Q an origin story.

Picard's mum being a Bertha is worse than the Timeless Child.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Pranet on April 16, 2022, 10:43:58 AM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on April 15, 2022, 11:45:40 PMWell I've ditched Disco. Even if it didn't become less convenient to watch it in S4, I still would've ditched it. Burnham's the greatest hero of all time. Wonderful, but there's only so much of that I can watch.

I'm not finding Picard terrible, my reaction is more along the lines of: "the fuck?"

I find the quality of Picard, um, variable, but at least it doesn't bore me shitless like Discovery did. I didn't ditch Discovery in a fit of anger, I just never got around to seeing the next episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Pranet on April 16, 2022, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on April 15, 2022, 11:12:47 AMCan't believe they decided to cast the one actor who to my eye looks like an exact cross between Dwight Schultz and Doctor Bashir in this latest episode. Really confused me for a fair few scenes until I realised he was neither and actually that other bloke from BSG.

I thought it was Bashir until the moment I saw this post. I'd forgotten about his BSG double.

Edit - yes I was a bit confused about how come Bashir was Picard's Dad.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 16, 2022, 11:51:46 AM
Q is a genie. Picard is a robot. Picard's mother is a Bertha.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Spoon of Ploff on April 16, 2022, 12:00:43 PM
Couldn't they have found a lookie-likie for Clive Church?
(https://i.imgur.com/bazDv7s.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 16, 2022, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: Lemming on April 16, 2022, 01:09:51 AM"Brent Spiner ran over Picard in a Tesla" [...] should get you laughing the instant they enter your head

I haven't seen that moment (yet?) but fuck me that's funny. I can see it perfectly. His knackered old body cronked over the hood and a mildly concerned Spiner behind the wheel looking like someone from Curb.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on April 16, 2022, 02:03:54 PM
Quote from: Lemming on April 16, 2022, 01:09:51 AMMight as well make a show called PEEP SHOW: MARK...

Blackadder: Rowan Atkinson as 1950's Vet Edmund Blackadder who in his spare time solves crimes with the assistance of his faithful bloodhound Baldrick and talkative parrot Melchett (voiced by Stephen Fry). BBC1 Mon-Fri just after Doctors.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Exposition on April 16, 2022, 05:56:53 PM
It's amazing how all these seasons can go off the rails in both quality and entertainment like clockwork, and they never even start particularly strong to begin with.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on April 16, 2022, 07:47:16 PM
I'm out! I don't recognise characters, themes, concepts, aesthetics in this show. Patrick Stewart, John De Lancie and a few name drops does not a Star Trek series make. If it had a good storyline, I could go along for the ride, but the last four episodes have felt like wheel spinners.

If the series ends with either Bruce Boxleitner appearing via a wormhole, telling Picard that the Vorlans need him...  or Dr. Strange appearing via a wormhole, telling him that the Marvel Universe needs him, it would not be a surprise.

"Wait, Q... Kosh?"
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 16, 2022, 11:35:26 PM
Why this exploration of Picard's psyché? Wasn't it already obvious from the flashbacks that his mother suffered from depression or another similar issue, that never required some fake suspense about it? Why the need to bring on Earth a Romulan to monitor Renée Picard while she's supposed to fade into the background to accomplish her mission?

The crazy thing is that, when they're trying to do something Star Trek had never done and they're patting themselves on the back for being that bold and edgy, like this episode and the previous one, they're doing the exact thing that hundreds of shows have already done, most of the time much better.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 17, 2022, 03:57:14 PM
I stopped watching this. Not a conscious decision, but there's always something better to try.

It's mad, the first episode seems to go, 'okay we've fixed what was wrong with the first season' and then immediately screw it all up again in new ways.

They've gone to the Chris Chibnall school of writing, proudly holding their turds out for our approval.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: jamiefairlie on April 17, 2022, 04:28:45 PM
Star Trek and Dr Who, the two flagship sci-fi shows and both written so poorly that even diehard fans are stopping watching. Why? Is it so hard to find competent writers?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: evilcommiedictator on April 18, 2022, 04:39:56 AM
I like how we've setup an interesting plot, with current-day Earth having so many bad an obvious issues, and now we're going to ignore it.

I like how we've setup an interesting plot, with the entire ICE/Police force on the lookout for two women, and now we're going to ignore it.

I like how we've setup an interesting plot with Guinan something something humanity something, and now we're going to ignore it.

I like how we've setup an interesting plot/reveal, with Q losing his powers, and now we're going to ignore it.

I like how we've setup an interesting plot/reveal, with Picard's Greatx8 Grandma and space and Q, and now we're going to ignore it.

I like how we've setup an interesting plot/revel, with the Borg Queen on a rampage and now we're going to ignore it.

I like how we've setup an interesting plot/reveal, with Picard's mum eventually being delusional and now it means nothing.

But hey, the FBI have picked up Picard, so that's an extra filler episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Spoon of Ploff on April 18, 2022, 06:55:22 AM
I hope they reprise the famous four lights episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on April 18, 2022, 10:55:44 AM
Except that it will be Steve Bannon, Mike Lindell and Sidney Powell, all forcing Picard to acknowledge that Trump got more votes in the swing states.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on April 18, 2022, 12:43:51 PM
You know that game where somebody writes a paragraph of a story, then folds the paper over so only the last line is visible, then passes it on to the next person to continue the story?

That's what's going on here, isn't it?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on April 18, 2022, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: olliebean on April 18, 2022, 12:43:51 PMYou know that game where somebody writes a paragraph of a story, then folds the paper over so only the last line is visible, then passes it on to the next person to continue the story?

That's what's going on here, isn't it?

It's called a progressive stack you chud!
Jesus, this is not the effect I envisaged new star trek having on me.

I've been musing, partially inspired by people calling out similarities to Who writing, that perhaps this is  the transformation of 'Trek' into a sub-genre of it's own and then being treated as you would any genre: as something not particularly interesting when worked within unironically but rather something that demands remix and subversion.

But then I think, no, that's an insane leap of rationalization you're only making because you're no longer down with the kids and this is good actually.

And then I remember how disgustingly terrifying, dirty and dark Emissary was, and how tonally weird the half chipper, half  mindless-idealistic, half conflicty Caretaker was and wonder what I'd feel about them had I been pulled into a pit of self-reinforcing online hate as I watched those.

But then I remember that it is shit, but then get worried that there is no objective basis for that belief about a piece of light entertainment, and even if there was, it's certainly better on all counts that 'Earth: Final Conflict' which I have nothing but pleasant memories of that shit being shit, rather than this passionate dislike spiking to negative evangelism.

And then I just don't know what to think, or if I can trust my own thoughts anymore.

I will however watch the next episode, so mission accomplished I suppose.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 18, 2022, 02:37:13 PM
Picard is a robot whose mother was locked in a room for being mental.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on April 22, 2022, 08:19:21 PM
A frenzy of stuff this episode, I think the "what's in cell phone batteries"/"stabilizing metal" bit made me the angriest, but the high kicking gunplay was pretty close.

Quite excited to see a little Vulcan expedition quite disappointed to see them used in an explanation of why a random b-character thought aliens were dangerous perhaps he'll come back in one f the next two epsiodes - I kept expecting him to be a more direct Fox Mulder reference that'd have been fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 22, 2022, 10:01:49 PM
SPOILERS AHEAD for the new Picard episode

THE GOOD: Quite liked the resolution to the FBI plot, even if it came out of nowhere and was resolved in five lines of dialogue (Guinan giving Picard the phrase, Picard saying the phrase, Mulder saying "as a kid I met aliens", Picard saying "this is a mind meld", Mulder saying "you're free to go")

As for everything else...

- Hitler Data is about to be Borgified! Laughed out loud when he managed to get together a team of elite mercs within like, five minutes. Laughed even harder when they started getting Borged.

- Rios and the doc had fuck-all to do this time around. Declaration of love, there you go, there's your five seconds of screentime this episode.

- The writers apparently feared that the Raffi and Seven scenes were getting boring, so Seven started snapping at Raffi for no real reason. After Raffi is choked by the Borg Queen (and saved by Jurati, who managed to reassert control briefly?), this newly-introduced drama is resolved by Raffi admitting that she is indeed manipulative, a character trait I don't think has ever really been associated with her before. Luckily, the show shoved a flashback in to allay any concerns you might have that this came out of nowhere.

- Rios' lost commbadge returns! Except Mulder says "I just had the place searched". Rios returned to the clinic several times long after the dramatic shot of ICE being about to find his lost commbadge. I guess he forgot about it and just left it there in the entrance where it went unnoticed until now.

- What were the Vulcans doing on Earth? I'm not saying it's impossible for them to be there, or even that this is an example of questionable writing or anything, but why go down in person like that? The Carbon Creek incident happened within living memory, you'd think they'd want to take care. If it's some TNG movie lore or whatever, I'm oblivious. Also, they mind-melded with child-Mulder? Weren't mind melds illegal back then and hugely frowned upon, as seen in that one Enterprise episode where mind melds are a thinly-veiled allegory for homosexuality? I know this was about a century before Enterprise, so maybe the outlawing of mind melds was a new thing. Don't know, don't remember Enterprise's new additions to the lore too well.

- Guinan was going to leave Earth due to racism and poverty, but seeing Mulder sacrifice his career to save them convinces her that humanity itself is uniquely good. Yep, no other species in the galaxy has the ability to process memories and react to them! In fairness, "humans are very uniquely special, nobody else has emotions or personalities" is a crap theme that's pretty typical of all Star Trek, so no real hate to ST: Picard for falling back on it again. Love how limp it feels though - the series has a character voice her distress at devastating modern-day issues, and then totally fails to interrogate the issues in any way before sweeping them aside by having the same character conclude "humanity will get over all this violence and subjugation one day because Mulder is nice". Which, again, is pretty typical of Star Trek, I suppose, so maybe that's why it was my favourite subplot of the episode.

- Still bothered by the whole Time's Arrow situation. I get that we're currently watching a version of 2024 where the future has been changed to one in which Time's Arrow didn't happen, but surely if they succeed at their mission and Renee Picard goes to space, then Time's Arrow will happen... meaning the events we're currently seeing (which are necessary for Time's Arrow to happen) can't happen, because Time's Arrow already happened and therefore Guinan's behaviour in 2024 would be radically different, and she'd have already met Picard.

Was laughing out loud throughout this one, which is a nice change from the recent string of episodes that have been nothing but confusion and boredom inducing.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on April 22, 2022, 11:17:52 PM
Quote from: Lemming on April 22, 2022, 10:01:49 PM- Still bothered by the whole Time's Arrow situation. I get that we're currently watching a version of 2024 where the future has been changed to one in which Time's Arrow didn't happen, but surely if they succeed at their mission and Renee Picard goes to space, then Time's Arrow will happen... meaning the events we're currently seeing (which are necessary for Time's Arrow to happen) can't happen, because Time's Arrow already happened and therefore Guinan's behaviour in 2024 would be radically different, and she'd have already met Picard.

But there's no reason for them to travel back into the past of the confederation's timeline and meet her in it's 21st century if upon arriving in the 25th version of that timeline if it was nice enough for time's arrow to occur back in the 24th/19th so you get to sidestep that bit.

Quote from: Lemming on April 22, 2022, 10:01:49 PMthinly-veiled allegory for homosexuality?
Yep, I think I got beamed up not by his ship but by their version of paedophile hunters.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 23, 2022, 11:33:01 PM
I'm impressed that they wrote a script that filled an episode but didn't move the plot on one single bit. Fuck's sake.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 24, 2022, 12:12:15 AM
Quote from: kalowski on April 23, 2022, 11:33:01 PMI'm impressed that they wrote a script that filled an episode but didn't move the plot on one single bit. Fuck's sake.

6 weeks of that now...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on April 24, 2022, 07:39:45 AM
Quote from: Malcy on April 24, 2022, 12:12:15 AM6 weeks of that now...
Yet still I watch it...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 24, 2022, 12:07:43 PM
Quote from: kalowski on April 24, 2022, 07:39:45 AMYet still I watch it...

Yeah same. Always hoping the next episode is the one they get right.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on April 24, 2022, 06:06:44 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 24, 2022, 12:07:43 PMYeah same. Always hoping the next episode is the one they get right.

Are you Sam Beckett?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: evilcommiedictator on April 26, 2022, 02:24:21 AM
I like how we've retconned the whole timeline now as Picard causing it by going back in time from a reality that existed because Picard went back in time (all caused by Q and Gerati-Borg).

I like how Raffi seemingly left the gun behind, and stayed to have a chat whilst Gerati was literally getting away. Kids playing on starships is nice, we already know he's staying behind, get on with it, oh, let's go now to the cheapest FBI interrogation set available, and Q doesn't want to speak directly to Picard, because we need to reveal that Q is no longer immortal/is dying. Well, who would have thought!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on April 26, 2022, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: evilcommiedictator on April 26, 2022, 02:24:21 AMQ doesn't want to speak directly to Picard, because we need to reveal that Q is no longer immortal/is dying. Well, who would have thought!

But wasn't Picard able to intuit that over the course of their first conversation?

It'd be my first suspicion if a non-spatiotemporal omnipotent prankster started talking a little portentously.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on April 28, 2022, 06:43:04 PM
Why the hell am I still watching this colossal pile of dog eggs? It's so bad.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 28, 2022, 06:59:01 PM
Dreadful.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 28, 2022, 10:46:19 PM
I hope Enron murders a load of people.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 29, 2022, 10:58:44 AM
The whole Seven being rejected from Starfleet thing was ridiculous.

Just because she was ex-Borg. Picard is a huge risk in that regard as well, kept him at the Romulan Neutral Zone at when the cube came for Earth in First Contact but he saved the day.

This time the Borg show up and it's Jean-Luc HELP US NOW.

Why wouldn't they have that attitude with Seven. Especially with Janeway threatening to resign over it.

It just seems they want to fuck every character up as much as possible like they have a vendetta agains Trek or something.

Idiots.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on April 29, 2022, 11:41:45 AM
Didn't Icheb get accepted into the academy? Almost like they don't really care ...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Spoon of Ploff on April 29, 2022, 11:49:35 AM
Star Dreck more like.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 29, 2022, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: Deanjam on April 29, 2022, 11:41:45 AMDidn't Icheb get accepted into the academy? Almost like they don't really care ...

Forgot about that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 02:06:59 PM
Quote from: Deanjam on April 29, 2022, 11:41:45 AMDidn't Icheb get accepted into the academy? Almost like they don't really care ...

They had a Picard Day banner. How can you say they don't care?!?

Nice of them to make Starfleet prejudiced again. They just love making everybody xenophobic.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Why does young Picard have a model of the NX-01 refit that was designed for Season 5 of Enterprise but never used due to the cancellation?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on April 29, 2022, 04:56:57 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 03:42:57 PMWhy does young Picard have a model of the NX-01 refit that was designed for Season 5 of Enterprise but never used due to the cancellation?

Must have been to some other dark timeline when the cameras weren't rolling.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 29, 2022, 08:03:20 PM
Quote from: Malcy on April 29, 2022, 10:58:44 AMThe whole Seven being rejected from Starfleet thing was ridiculous.

Just because she was ex-Borg. Picard is a huge risk in that regard as well, kept him at the Romulan Neutral Zone at when the cube came for Earth in First Contact but he saved the day.

This time the Borg show up and it's Jean-Luc HELP US NOW.

Why wouldn't they have that attitude with Seven. Especially with Janeway threatening to resign over it.

It just seems they want to fuck every character up as much as possible like they have a vendetta agains Trek or something.

Idiots.

Worst part is there is no way Janeway would pull back from her resignation threat. Seven borders on being her daughter in Voyager at times, she would follow the fuck through and resign over her. The only way she'd back off is if Seven asked her not to resign over it. But even then I'd be surprised if she didn't just 'fuck it' and go on principle anyway.

Honestly the fan assumption that Seven ultimately decided not join (or not to remain if she had joined) in Starfleet because it didn't suit her moral center worked better.

I thought we were done making Starfleet into dickheads in season 1 anyway.

As for:

Spoiler alert
Jurati becoming a new, benign Borg queen; even with the massive holes in it about how assimilation works vs. every other time, this could have actually been good. The problem is it arises from Jurati flipping all the Borg Queen's comments about how lonely she (Jurati) is back on her and successfully persuading her it's a good idea to save lives instead of assimilate them in the length of time it takes you to read this sentence.

There really isn't any build up to this beyond the Borg Queen fucking around with Jurati, which is mostly about the latter being taken over by the former. Considering that they probably could've cut at least three episodes worth of run time of unnecessary fluff out of it so far, it's not like they couldn't have made time. Even something little, like if before the Queen went kidnapping cops, Jurati had been trying to keep her out of trouble for while, humouring her by talking to her or something (obviously she'd eventually have to stop to get away from the psycho bitch) and maybe suggested during the course of the convo that The Borg's stated need for perfection is actually a product of fear or something like that. Maybe more of Jurati talking in the Queen's head - not that I like that sort of shit, btw, but it seems to be one of nu-Trek's preferred tropes, so I'd like to see them at least employ it usefully - after she takes over? Come on guys, give us something.

And yeah, we can handwave that since Jurati hasn't been assimilated as a regular drone, and is in fact still physically Jurati, just with the Queen's personality imprinted on to her, and a small quantity of nanoprobles, until it eventually becomes dominant, it's acceptable that she has a lot more influence over the Queen than an ordinary drone. But it's beyond jarring to have this resolution just occur on the spot. Especially in a series that has been painfully slow paced for the most part.

On the plus side, at least that's Jurati gone. Who else can we get rid of in episode 10 to make room for Riker & Co?

Also fuck you, Rios, keep your mouth shut and let notData kill himself next time.
[close]

There were ideas with potential here, but it badly needed a fucking editor.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on April 29, 2022, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on April 29, 2022, 08:03:20 PM
Spoiler alert
Also fuck you, Rios, keep your mouth shut and let notData kill himself next time.
[close]


That was a huge fuck up.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 09:15:03 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on April 29, 2022, 04:56:57 PMMust have been to some other dark timeline when the cameras weren't rolling.

Oi, Season 5 of Enterprise would have been wonderful. Jeffrey Combs was going to join the cast full time.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 29, 2022, 09:54:57 PM
What the fuck was that? Such a confused mess. We've got three plots going on at once - Seven and Raffi turning into mini CGI versions of themselves to run towards the ship while knifing people, Picard and Romulan going into the tunnels to talk about his miserable childhood, and Rios and the doc saying they love each other in an apartment. No plot develops properly and we switch between all three at random.

The rule for writing these days is that if something isn't on the screen, it no longer exists. The house is beset by green-laser-sight troops, but Picard wants to reflect on his mother's suicide, so they're gone (after the ones in the room are beaten up). Jurati needs to talk to the Borg Queen, so Raffi is knocked to one side and vanishes from existence as soon as she falls out of the frame, until she's needed again to dramatically yell "nooo" when the Queen re-Borgs Seven. Quite a bit of time elapses over the course of the episode, but Rios' plot doesn't move at all unless he's on the screen.

I want to hug Brent Spiner every time he's on screen. I'd always had the impression he was a little bit of a knob and Data's not my favourite character, but poor Brent just seems to be suffering in every scene he's in. He knows it's shit, no doubt about it.

The Jurati and Borg Queen merger is ok conceptually, but as Wonderful Butternut says, far too quick.

Also, lol @ Elnor stabbing loads of people again. Great stuff, love it. He's got the Doctor's mobile emitter too, wonderful. Just a shame he didn't say his fantastic catchphrase - PLEASE MY FRIENDS, CHOOSE TO LIVE.

Two things, in addition to the Icheb-in-Starfleet fuckup that's already been pointed out:
- Why can't they just use the Romulan's puff-of-smoke teleporter to go into the ship? If it was explained, I missed it because I was saying "oh god" out loud a lot. They use it to send Rios away, but why not just use it to beam the rest of the gang into the ship, or right up next to the ship, negating the need to go running around in the tunnels (pointlessly) and for Seven and Raffi to Rambo their way through a shitty cover shooter segment? My friend I was watching it with just kept saying "or, we could use the teleporter" in Kryten's voice for the entire scene.

- How did Picard know about Jurati? As is often the case with this show, characters traverse vast distances in a matter of seconds if they're needed in the current scene, but he goes from being in the greenhouse to suddenly being with the rest, and he says "we've lost a friend, but found... OURSELVES". But did anyone tell him about Jurati's fate? It only happened like a minute ago, and he was nowhere nearby.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 10:11:14 PM
Completely undermine the Borg, Seven, Starfleet and Picard in a single episode, all the while playing with mental illness and suicide like it is an Alex Kurtzman mystery box. But at least they made sure they didn't contradict a Season 1 TNG episode. Wow, these writers really do care.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 29, 2022, 10:30:21 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 10:11:14 PMCompletely undermine the Borg, Seven, Starfleet and Picard in a single episode,

Haven't they already been undermined beyond repair by Picard S1 and other recent Trek?* I mean - is there anything left of what they originally stood for - anything at all?

*Actually, to be fair, the Borg were undermined beyond repair by Descent in TNG; we can't blame everything on new Trek (although I am going to anyway).  And actually, Picard was basically ruined in the TNG movies, so what am I talking about?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 29, 2022, 10:32:26 PM
Every episode gets worse the more you think about it. Actually watching it feels like being a cow who's just been shot in the head with a bolt gun, just stunned uncomprehending horror. Then it ends and you think "jesus". Then an hour passes and you sit there thinking "Picard's a robot and Seven and Raffi just had to drive a knife into a man's head because he'd been Borg'd after agreeing to work as a mercenary for Hitler Data, who's working with the Borg Queen to bring about the dark future" and you can't figure out how or why any of this exists, or who it's aimed at, or what the writers and actors must think about the end product.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 29, 2022, 10:33:50 PM
Seriously - consider not watching it then. Watching it only encourages the fuckers. [says me, who's still reading this thread, so I suppose still hate-watching it by proxy]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 10:35:26 PM
I only watch Picard because I do a podcast. Not seen any other new Trek since the fourth episode of Discovery.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on April 29, 2022, 10:36:31 PM
I drifted away after the second episode of this season and nothing I've read here or elsewhere has tempted me to try it again.

Strange New Worlds starts next week. If that fails I'll just stick to Prodigy, Lower Decks (which has climbed from unwatchable to reasonable) and The Orville.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on April 29, 2022, 10:38:21 PM
It's not possible to look away from, for me. I dropped Discovery right at the start of season three because it was boring and didn't resemble what I wanted from Star Trek, but Picard is a special case, it's so inexplicable that it inspires a sort of awe.

Discovery felt like watching a beloved pet cat be kicked around (distressing and disappointing), while Picard feels like watching a beloved pet cat be put into a blender, turned into goop, and then Michael Chabon comes in and gathers up the watery gore and slaps it into the shape of a shitty dog and tells you it's your original cat, good as new, and then takes a dump on your kitchen floor. It's such a jaw-dropping thing that you can't look away, even though it physically hurts to look.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on April 29, 2022, 10:44:29 PM
Quote from: grainger on April 29, 2022, 10:33:50 PMSeriously - consider not watching it then. Watching it only encourages the fuckers. [says me, who's still reading this thread, so I suppose still hate-watching it by proxy]
Quote from: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 10:35:26 PMI only watch Picard because I do a podcast. Not seen any other new Trek since the fourth episode of Discovery.
Quote from: Lemming on April 29, 2022, 10:38:21 PMIt's not possible to look away from, for me.

Well let's all just remember that when Kurtzman is given another extension to his time in charge and we're wondering who's actually watching it.

For my part I ditched Disco after 3 seasons, which was at least 1 too many, and Lower Decks cos I was starting to fast forward past bits by episode 5.

Quote from: Lemming on April 29, 2022, 09:54:57 PMAlso, lol @ Elnor stabbing loads of people again. Great stuff, love it. He's got the Doctor's mobile emitter too, wonderful. Just a shame he didn't say his fantastic catchphrase - PLEASE MY FRIENDS, CHOOSE TO LIVE.

That actually does annoy me now that we're talking about it. Cos you just know here's what's went on in the writers' room:

"Hey guys, what if we had sort of Romulan Jedi? Except edgier? They can't have lightsabres or force powers obviously cos Disney would sue us. But you know what I mean."
"Jedi if they were TOTES AWESOME?"
"Yeah. They could say something cool when they go chopping heads off that puts the decision to commit murder off them, even though in most cases they could just disarm the baddie."
"How about: Please my friends, choose to live?"
"Yeah... oh that's really good... REALLY good."
"Let's have sex."
"Yes."
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on April 30, 2022, 08:00:28 AM
I think I must have a much more fragile relationship to movies/TV than most. Watching all this drek (modern Star Wars, modern Trek) spoils (to one degree or other) my enjoyment of the classic material that I love. It's funny - it doesn't happen so much with bands. I accept that, say, REM went total dogshit, but that doesn't put me off their earlier stuff. Everyone here seems very happy (and easily able) to separate it out.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Spoon of Ploff on April 30, 2022, 12:17:09 PM
Funniest moment for me has to be when
Spoiler alert
they forgot to film Soong Mark I's get away and had to make do with the audio queue of someone scuttling off instead.
[close]

On the whole I've found Picard too ludicrous to spoil TNG which I've also been watching recently.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Pranet on May 01, 2022, 10:43:58 AM
Like I've said, it doesn't make me angry like it makes some of you, but it is very silly.

At times it reminds me of one of those cheap science fiction/fantasy shows ITV or Channel 5 would show late at night in the late 90s or early 2000s.

Other times it reminds me of Buffy or Angel- the ditzy one going evil is basically Joss Whedon's one plot, except whatever he may be as a man he was good at making entertaining television- better than the lot running Picard anyway.

On this episode they seemed to picked up the "It is an important moment when time is of the essence, lets stop and talk about shit for hours" thing that happens in Discovery.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on May 01, 2022, 03:06:57 PM
Keep meaning to ask.

Where is Picard's brother in all of this?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on May 01, 2022, 03:07:47 PM
Just occurred to me that they should have called season two Star Trek: Picarder and then season three Star Trek: Picardest.
They missed a trick there.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on May 01, 2022, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: Malcy on May 01, 2022, 03:06:57 PMKeep meaning to ask.

Where is Picard's brother in all of this?

There was a line in an earlier episode that he was away at school. Not surprised you don't remember.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on May 01, 2022, 08:27:39 PM
I'd love it if Picard sacrificed himself to save everyone again at the end of this series and then at the last minute they brought him back to life as a hologram that will somehow age exactly the same as if he was human. And in series 3 almost no mention was made of him being a hologram.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on May 01, 2022, 09:55:44 PM
Quote from: Lemming on April 29, 2022, 09:54:57 PM- Why can't they just use the Romulan's puff-of-smoke teleporter to go into the ship? If it was explained, I missed it because I was saying "oh god" out loud a lot. They use it to send Rios away, but why not just use it to beam the rest of the gang into the ship, or right up next to the ship, negating the need to go running around in the tunnels (pointlessly) and for Seven and Raffi to Rambo their way through a shitty cover shooter segment? My friend I was watching it with just kept saying "or, we could use the teleporter" in Kryten's voice for the entire scene.

Now I had a fair few problems with this episode myself, and I say that as someone who's broadly a fan of the show. But really "why didn't they just use the transporters" is one of those questions that's really not worth asking of any Trek series. It would solve about half of all episodes at a stroke.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on May 01, 2022, 10:56:47 PM
I'm just glad those two Borg took 30 seconds to aim their green beams at Picard giving Rios enough time to reboot the Romulan transporter so he could appear in exactly the right place and shoot them straight away (even though it happened so quickly he had no idea that they weren't allies.)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on May 01, 2022, 11:29:31 PM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on May 01, 2022, 09:55:44 PMNow I had a fair few problems with this episode myself, and I say that as someone who's broadly a fan of the show. But really "why didn't they just use the transporters" is one of those questions that's really not worth asking of any Trek series. It would solve about half of all episodes at a stroke.

But in this case they use it in the exact same scene. They have to get to their ship, some distance away, surrounded by mercs. They all collectively agree that the best way to do this is to engage in a brutal, ultra-dangerous battle against the mercs, inching their way up towards the ship while under heavy fire. This plan is so dangerous that Seven even mentions that she doesn't think she or Raffi will survive.

As they're about to go, Rios is injured, so first they use their handy teleporter to send him away to the other side of the planet. They then pocket their teleporter and set off for the ship on foot.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on May 02, 2022, 08:11:03 AM
Quote from: Alberon on April 29, 2022, 10:36:31 PMI drifted away after the second episode of this season and nothing I've read here or elsewhere has tempted me to try it again.
I am now only watching it to see if they can keep making each episode worse than the one before. So far they have succeeded every time so I can't wait for the season nadir next week.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on May 02, 2022, 04:07:57 PM
Will they be explaining whether Worf has two penises in Season 3? If not, then I am NOT interested.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on May 02, 2022, 04:13:19 PM
Please please please let them put Worf in the new, Discovery-style Klingon makeup. Please. The fan outrage would be so intense that it'd be one of the greatest comedy spectacles of the decade. Not to mention the sight of Dorn trying to act while inevitably being visibly fucked off about the whole thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on May 02, 2022, 04:15:37 PM
And let him get his knobs out.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on May 02, 2022, 04:46:39 PM
It's a scam to get that Star Trek Collectible Card Game reissue cash and I hate it.

(https://i.imgur.com/UUWwQg1.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on May 03, 2022, 08:32:53 PM
I think we can all agree the second series got off to a good start then dropped off a cliff.

Terry Matalas was responsible for the first few then the rest is Kurtzman. Gives a glimmer of hope for the TNG reunion that is apparently all Matalas.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on May 04, 2022, 01:38:50 AM
They'll definitely do a great show next time.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 04, 2022, 11:16:46 AM
Quote from: Malcy on May 03, 2022, 08:32:53 PMI think we can all agree the second series got off to a good start then dropped off a cliff.

Nah, it was dogshit from Minute One.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on May 05, 2022, 09:06:03 AM
HAHAHA

Spoiler alert
It's all about love...
And a Wil Wheaton cameo!
And the entire universe almost ending because Borg Queen cannot say "I'm here to help!" before using her tentacles!

[close]

Oh look it's Brave New Worlds... written by Akiva Goldman and Kurtzman! These guys are killing it!

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Spoon of Ploff on May 05, 2022, 11:01:14 AM
Spoiler alert
wil wheaton??
[close]
dear god no
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on May 05, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Spoiler alert
I don't dislike Wheaton, or Wesley. But not only was that a out  of nowhere cameo, but really badly acted/ presented. All smiles and joy, more "You've won the lottery" than "you've been chosen... for some reason... to be a secret agent of destiny." Could have been more solemn?
[close]

Apologies for more spoiler tags. No idea what the unofficial rules are for them; better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on May 05, 2022, 11:28:22 AM
Better to have too many than too few.

I'm not going to watch the last episode (I'd have to watch eight to catch up), but what does happen in the finale?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on May 05, 2022, 11:34:59 AM
I hope Picard finally achieves his dream of becoming human.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: elliszeroed on May 05, 2022, 11:47:13 AM
Quote from: Alberon on May 05, 2022, 11:28:22 AMBetter to have too many than too few.

I'm not going to watch the last episode (I'd have to watch eight to catch up), but what does happen in the finale?

Spoiler alert
  • Picards ancestor goes into space
  • Jurati becomes a nice Borg Queen
  • Rios stays behind to be with doctor woman
  • Picard has option to alter his future by taking a key away, the key being where it was having led to his mommas suicide, he declines the option
  • Vulcan woman dies, as she is a watcher
  • Wil Wheaton takes Sochi to make her a watcher
  • Q tells Picard he is sad he is dying, tells Picard that he matters, and love is important, as is the fact that Picard chose to be himself, rather than replace the key. Basically Tapestry II.
  • The Borg in the present is revealed to be Jurati, and she needs the help of Picard and the entire federation to stop a blackhole thing from destroying the galaxy
  • They stop it, open a transwarp conduit...
  • And the Romulan ninja is restored to life
  • And the Borg asks for temporary Federation membership
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on May 05, 2022, 12:03:15 PM
Thanks!

Sounds like
Spoiler alert
utter utter dogshit.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Spoon of Ploff on May 05, 2022, 12:12:28 PM
Quote from: Alberon on May 05, 2022, 12:03:15 PMThanks!

Sounds like
Spoiler alert
utter utter dogshit.
[close]

Spoiler alert
yes. yes it was
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on May 05, 2022, 01:12:12 PM
Quote from: elliszeroed on May 05, 2022, 11:47:13 AM
Spoiler alert
  • [...] The Borg [need] the help of Picard and the entire federation to stop a blackhole thing from destroying the galaxy
  • They stop it
[close]

Oh my goodness...  genuine laugh out loud.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on May 05, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Spoiler alert
So the borg are nice now? How do they explain that they're made up of people abducted and mutilated against their will?

Who am I kidding. They don't bother, do they? Jurati-queen looks like a sad puppy and sad music plays. The end.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 05, 2022, 02:38:23 PM
Quote from: elliszeroed on May 05, 2022, 11:47:13 AM
Spoiler alert
  • Picards ancestor goes into space
  • Jurati becomes a nice Borg Queen
  • Rios stays behind to be with doctor woman
  • Picard has option to alter his future by taking a key away, the key being where it was having led to his mommas suicide, he declines the option
  • Vulcan woman dies, as she is a watcher
  • Wil Wheaton takes Sochi to make her a watcher
  • Q tells Picard he is sad he is dying, tells Picard that he matters, and love is important, as is the fact that Picard chose to be himself, rather than replace the key. Basically Tapestry II.
  • The Borg in the present is revealed to be Jurati, and she needs the help of Picard and the entire federation to stop a blackhole thing from destroying the galaxy
  • They stop it, open a transwarp conduit...
  • And the Romulan ninja is restored to life
  • And the Borg asks for temporary Federation membership
[close]

Sweet Jesus.

Spoiler alert
Do they make it clear that Wesley is "travelling"?
[close]

and

Spoiler alert
Is there any hint that, going forward, Wesley is "the new Q"?
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 05, 2022, 02:43:10 PM
Quote from: Deanjam on May 05, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Spoiler alert
So the borg are nice now? How do they explain that they're made up of people abducted and mutilated against their will?

Who am I kidding. They don't bother, do they? Jurati-queen looks like a sad puppy and sad music plays. The end.
[close]

Hang on a minute...

Spoiler alert
Were the Borg in the present always Jurati? Or have they changed the timeline? Did Wolf 359 and most of VOY happen? Have they just ret-conned all of Star Trek post-"Q Who"?

Or is this all safely in an alternate timeline, Kelvin-style, like I first understood to be the case but was disabused of here in the forum? And if these changes were made to an alternate timeline, why should we (or Q) give a shit one way or another whether Picard took the key to change/not change his mother's destiny?
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on May 05, 2022, 02:45:48 PM
Quote from: Deanjam on May 05, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Spoiler alert
So the borg are nice now? How do they explain that they're made up of people abducted and mutilated against their will?

Who am I kidding. They don't bother, do they? Jurati-queen looks like a sad puppy and sad music plays. The end.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Different gang of Borg innit. These guys have just been lurking around, taking in volunteers over 400 years while their more belligerent cousins keep doing their thing and being outsmarted by Janeway.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on May 05, 2022, 02:45:55 PM
Oh, is this the season finale? Frankly I was going to give up after last week, might give it a watch if it's the finale, though. Just out of morbid curiosity.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on May 05, 2022, 03:36:18 PM
Still a mess but enjoyed the Q & Picard scenes.

Spoiler alert
Wesley auditioning for Doctor Who was just odd. Soong's Project Khan only put there as a lead onto the Soong ENT ep's. They just added the Guardians to the Travellers.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on May 05, 2022, 04:54:30 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on May 05, 2022, 02:43:10 PMHang on a minute...

Spoiler alert
Did [...] most of VOY happen?
[close]

Stop it, you're starting to make me like Picard.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on May 06, 2022, 06:04:03 AM
Okay.

Okay.

Spoiler alert
Okay. That final Guinan scene has me switched back around, current Guinan has memories of her interaction with Picard in the 21st century which seem fully integrated with her memories presumably of meeting Mark Twain yet they weren't then? And she has always had a sneaky photo of and deep knowledge of Rios' time travelling life and implies he'd missed it previously so the events of their interference had always happened.

And Picard has been told since childhood of '...the family line. The Picards that fought at Trafalgar, the Picards that settled the first Martian colony...' but no one mentioned the Picard that visited Europa and indirectly lead to earth biosphere recovery?

I think I'm enjoying it perversely now, at least we got this:

(https://i.imgur.com/EBstWyD.gif)

Q the liar! Q the misanthrope! Redeemed at last.

[close]

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AM
I'll stick my head up over the parapet and say; I enjoyed it....for what it was!
Aside from the virtually pointless Wil Wheaton scene,as a long time fan of most of the franchise, I just took it as a nice sci-fi romp. Okay, the real fans who remember every detail of previous 'Trek's will find fault. But I don't have that sort of eidetic memory, so I just sat back and enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 06, 2022, 10:35:10 AM
Quote from: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AMOkay, the real fans who remember every detail of previous 'Trek's will find fault. But I don't have that sort of eidetic memory, so I just sat back and enjoyed it.

I know supernerds like to nitpick (all part of the fun of watching Star Trek in my opinion but I can see why it annoys a lot of people) but DIS and PIC are so disrespectful to canon that it's a real struggle to see them as compatible at all. No need for an eidetic memory to feel that way imho.

And the main problem is more that practically every episode is a grimdark soup of violence and meaningless breathless dialogue and shouting and shrapnel.

SNW suggests (maybe) that the message has got though now. We'll see. Hopefully this shit can be put to bed.

Glad you enjoyed it though! Enjoy it if you can.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Zero Gravitas on May 06, 2022, 10:41:30 AM
Quote from: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AMAside from the virtually pointless Wil Wheaton scene.

I actually thought his lines were pretty funny:

QuoteSo the universe is essentially a grand tapestry.
It is flawless.
It is fragile.
It is exquisite.
Yet it is somehow always a thread's pull away from total annihilation.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on May 06, 2022, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AMI'll stick my head up over the parapet and say; I enjoyed it....for what it was!
Aside from the virtually pointless Wil Wheaton scene,as a long time fan of most of the franchise, I just took it as a nice sci-fi romp. Okay, the real fans who remember every detail of previous 'Trek's will find fault. But I don't have that sort of eidetic memory, so I just sat back and enjoyed it.

I thought the last episode rescued things a bit, as the previous couple of instalments were very shaky indeed. John de Lancie's best performance, hands down. And I liked the other cameo appearance because he seems like a good guy and I can imagine how much it means for him to be involved.

I'm one of those eidetic memory types (only for dweeby shit like this, not for anything actually important or useful) and I say canon is for theologians. Or we'd be forever moaning about James R Kirk, Klingons in the Federation, and the legality of Romulan Ale.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 06, 2022, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on May 06, 2022, 10:44:17 AMhe seems like a good guy and I can imagine how much it means for him to be involved.

Yeah, agreed. There was a clip on that last RLM video of him hinting to camera that he'd love to be on Lower Decks. I thought, jeez, haven't they given him that obvious gig yet? First he misses out on all that TNG money, then he's cut out of Nemesis, then they make him do their shilling, and they won't even give the poor lad a voice over gig? I was glad he got something.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on May 06, 2022, 01:33:20 PM
Didn't he end up voicing all the Romulans except for the main bad guy on the first Kelvin film?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 06, 2022, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: Alberon on May 06, 2022, 01:33:20 PMDidn't he end up voicing all the Romulans except for the main bad guy on the first Kelvin film?

I didn't know that! Cool. If a bit menial. I want more than an easter egg for him.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on May 06, 2022, 01:44:48 PM
Quick google found this.

QuoteIn his own words: "JJ Abrams called me. It was an entertaining conversation; I couldn't believe he wanted me to do work on his film, and he couldn't believe that I wanted to do it. He asked me if I'd be interested in playing some Romulans, and I think I held my hand over the phone so he couldn't hear me squeal in delight before I calmly told him that, yes, I thought I could do that. I don't recall precisely why, but we agreed that it would be extra cool to keep it a secret until the heat death of the universe, an uncredited bit of awesome that only a handful of people in the world would know about ... unless we told them. (In fact, as far as I know, only a dozen people in the world knew about this until some meddling kids and their dog at Viacom found out about it this summer, and said we had to give me credit and stuff.)"

If they want a new Trek series to replace Picard when that finishes next season they could do Star Trek: Traveller starring Will Wheaton. Though that would probably end up a total Doctor Who ripoff.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on May 06, 2022, 04:59:43 PM
Picard hugged Q. 10/10

Spoiler alert
Going to depart from the general view and say the last episode wasn't bad by itself, the problem is I feel they wasted more interesting concepts during the series as a whole with fuckways pacing. They dragged 5 episodes worth of material at most into 9 episodes and then wrapped everything up at the end in what felt like a rushed manner.

Stuff like notSoji joining the Travellers/Watchers, Wesley being involved with them, Jurati persuading the Borg Queen to do a 180 on her outlook in the previous episode, the singularity etc. are all potentially more interesting things they could've spent time on than, for example, the entirety of episode 8.

I assume the singularity is going to be pivotal in season 3 and the reason why Picard re-assembles the TNG crew, cos if not, it feels like they're taking the piss out of Discovery's annual galactic cataclysm by introducing and solving the singularity in about 10 minutes.
[close]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Pranet on May 06, 2022, 10:49:24 PM
Spoiler alert
Hello, I am Wil Wheaton. 30 years ago I was written out of the popular tv series Star Trek The Next Generation. I am here to write you out of the less popular streaming series Star Trek Picard.
[close]

I'm a Picard apologist but I can't claim it is great. Annoyed they
Spoiler alert
wrote out Rios as he was one of best ones.
[close]
Oh well it had some nice bits. I will be back next time to
Spoiler alert
see all my old favourites from TNG
[close]
if I still do it without paying anyone to do so.

Can't wait to be disappointed by Strange New Worlds.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on May 07, 2022, 12:54:54 PM
You've all failed to mention what was easily the most ridiculous thing in the entire episode. It actually made me groan.

Spoiler alert
(https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Picard-Project-Khan.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5)
[close]

I disagree about Brent Spiner. He seemed happy playing without all the Data makeup, except that he gave a terribly hammy performance, which was fit for a mustache-twirling villain. He was the same in Outcast, but slightly more subtle.

Spoiler alert
The whole character, related to the other Soongs or not, never made any sense.
- He's a disgrace in the scientific community, banned from every major project, yet he's suddenly acclaimed after he buys his way into the Europa project... which is about to be launched (so must be already fully financed). By the way, how come they had this extensive system for ID at the gala, while the security is lax at every step of the actual mission?
- He's doing everything to save his daughter whom he loves... until he's all about being validated and celebrated as a savior by humanity, even if it means collaborating with an alien enemy, murdering a ton of people, changing the future, etc. Sure, it could have been triggered by her rejection but they don't elaborate on that, while they had time for an entire episode about an interrogation by a bargain bin Fox Mulder that has otherwise no effect on the rest of the plot.
- And it turns out that he had dozens of supervillain tricks up his sleeves (the drones, the aforementioned file, etc.). For someone who's just been unexpectedly offered some opportunity by Q and the Borg queen, he definitely had a ton of resources and evil plans ready.
- The genius scientist gets so poor security in his information system (and no backups) that it gets hacked by Kore, who hadn't even used Google until two days before, from a public library.
- Finally, as Soong has no child, besides Kore (does she even carry his DNA?), and Kore join the Travellers Club (and gets paid through traveller's cheques), how come there's an actual Soong lineage where every male heir looks like Brent Spiner and every woman is played by Orla Brady?
[close]

I agree that everything after the name of the file is revealed is an improvement on this part.

Spoiler alert
Even if the story made little sense on the whole, Q bowing out was emotionally satisfying, especially due to DeLancie's restrained performance, with a few glimpses of his usual braggadocio.

I can live with Wesley Crusher being involved, because Will Wheaton seems a genuine good guy, who doesn't deserve, as a person, the bashing he got from Rick Berman or from the fans.
But the scene still puts on display one of the most irritating aspects of these new shows (but less than "PROJECT KHAN"). Instead of writing a show true to the spirit of Star Trek, they instead address obscure loose ends, as if it were a gift to the fans. These loose ends were loose ends for good reasons. They were failed experiments that nobody wanted to continue. That was the case with Conspiracy, in TNG, where some giant bugs had taken control of admirals (remember, it's the one with the effects in stop-motion). They were supposed to be parts of a plan by some major opponent that would have returned in later seasons, but the production decided that it was cheaper and more practical to design the Borg instead.

The only thing surprising with Rios staying in the 21st century was the characters acting surprised that he would make that choice, given that it was the most widely predicted element of the ending. The Voyage Home had Kirk's love interest joining the crew to the 23rd century, so they couldn't repeat that, especially with the kid.
And, of course, they had to make Teresa, Rios and Ricardo extremely important characters, who ended up saving Earth. They couldn't just be good people who did things for their community, they needed to be in history books (also, how come nobody knew how important Ricardo was?)
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Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on May 07, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
On the subject of Ricardo:

Spoiler alert
I "love" that humanity fixed pollution and Global Warming in the 21st century with magic alien spores, instead of, oh I dunno, learning to take better care of the environment after First Contact. Which is what I always assumed had happened and is more in keeping with how wonderful future humanity is portrayed in classic Star Trek.
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Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on May 07, 2022, 03:30:09 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on May 07, 2022, 01:39:51 PMOn the subject of Ricardo:

Spoiler alert
I "love" that humanity fixed pollution and Global Warming in the 21st century with magic alien spores, instead of, oh I dunno, learning to take better care of the environment after First Contact. Which is what I always assumed had happened and is more in keeping with how wonderful future humanity is portrayed in classic Star Trek.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Maybe they found the protomolecule much in advance.
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Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on May 07, 2022, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on May 07, 2022, 01:39:51 PMOn the subject of Ricardo:

Spoiler alert
I "love" that humanity fixed pollution and Global Warming in the 21st century with magic alien spores, instead of, oh I dunno, learning to take better care of the environment after First Contact. Which is what I always assumed had happened and is more in keeping with how wonderful future humanity is portrayed in classic Star Trek.
[close]

There's reforming how people do things (good), then there's fixing what damage has already been done (necessary). And Trek's future has always been a techno-utopia.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 07, 2022, 07:49:24 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on May 07, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
Spoiler alert
I "love" that humanity fixed pollution and Global Warming in the 21st century with magic alien spores, instead of, oh I dunno, learning to take better care of the environment after First Contact.
[close]

That's some midichlorians-level bullshit right there.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on May 08, 2022, 08:40:19 PM
I'm not a violent man, but everyone involved with this needs to be decapitated.
Spoiler alert
What the FUCK was that scene with Wesley? Really, what was it? Some weird putty Wil Wheaton mumbling out some terrible dialogue.
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Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on May 08, 2022, 10:28:53 PM
Spoiler alert
I think it was part of the mad dash to remove absolutely everyone (except Raffi and Seven) from the cast to clear the path for the third season (aka the third desperate attempt).

"Alright, we've gotten Rios to stay behind for love, we've gotten Jurati to go off as a Borg Queen. Shit, what do we do with Soji? Wil Wheaton's looking for work, isn't he? Can we use him somehow? (checks Memory Alpha) He went off with the Traveller? Alright, that works, Soji's a traveller, going off into the cosmos and never to be seen again."
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Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on May 08, 2022, 10:36:33 PM
Soji is still there in the present. As is Englor. But they are both confirmed as not returning. Think it is just Raffi, Seven and robo-Picard as the returning characters.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 08, 2022, 11:37:53 PM
Leaving Rios in the past is like leaving a surgical sponge in a patient's stomach.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on May 08, 2022, 11:40:57 PM
It's farcical. Especially as he set out to make a difference once he stayed behind.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Chairman Yang on May 09, 2022, 01:59:58 AM
Hahaha this thread is an amazing read by the way.

Killing off alt-characters in order to rid the show of the actors' main characters is fucking incredible.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 09, 2022, 03:12:20 PM
Sorry, but can someone please explain to me the timeline ramification of ST:PIC so I don't have to fucking watch it?

From what I understand, Q sent them to an alternate present. (The Confederation badness was not happening in the Prime timeline). Then, they went backwards in time within that alternate timeline to change it (making Picard and his crew the only people we know of to have yet travelled in both time and dimension other than Time Soldier Yor). So any changes they made re: the Borg is only in that alternate timeline to which Q sent them, right? Our Prime timeline is unaltered, yes? TNG-VOY all happened and have not been retconned?

Someone said earlier in the thread that Q didn't send them to an alternate reality but an alternate timeline. But in Star Trek, that's the same thing. We learn from ENT about the historic deviations that led to the creation of the Mirror Universe and in the 2009 film about the historic deviations led to the Kelvin timeline. Another timeline in Trek is another universe.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on May 09, 2022, 04:02:03 PM
I can't be bothered to trudge through it, but is there an explanation about how the new-Borg fit into the history of the old-Borg? Are there two collectives borging around the galaxy or what?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on May 09, 2022, 04:43:10 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on May 09, 2022, 03:12:20 PMSorry, but can someone please explain to me the timeline ramification of ST:PIC so I don't have to fucking watch it?

From what I understand, Q sent them to an alternate present. (The Confederation badness was not happening in the Prime timeline). Then, they went backwards in time within that alternate timeline to change it (making Picard and his crew the only people we know of to have yet travelled in both time and dimension other than Time Soldier Yor). So any changes they made re: the Borg is only in that alternate timeline to which Q sent them, right? Our Prime timeline is unaltered, yes? TNG-VOY all happened and have not been retconned?

As best I can understand it:
Picard was called out on a mission aboard Rios' ship because of his knowledge of Borg. The ship was seemingly attacked by a new BORG SUPERQUEEN. Q sent the gang to an altered future (but within the prime universe) in which Seven was the president of the Evil Federation. They went back to 2024 to ensure that a woman called Renee Picard went on a spaceflight, which would save the future. During their batshit nonsense adventure, Rios fell in love and chose to stay behind, and Jurati merged with the Borg Queen to become the Good Queen.

Cut back to the future where Picard realises the BORG SUPERQUEEN must be Jurati, and tells everyone to stand down. The SUPERQUEEN removes its mask to reveal Jurati, and says she's here to help. I'm not sure if there was an explanation as to what she'd been doing for the past few centuries, but apparently, this had no effect on anything, and TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY all played out as normal. Picard was still assimilated in BoBW (hence him still being called out on this mission for his Borg knowledge), and Seven of Nine had all her original Borg implants back (even though she'd already been given them back by Jurati, who had to give her her exact original implants back in order to heal a wound on her torso, for some reason).

Picard meets with Whoopi-Guinan at the end and she teases him by pointing out that, when they met in episode one, she already knew about his upcoming adventure and put an old photograph of herself and Rios on the bar as a clue.

Since Rios was apparently always in the past, and the Jurati SUPERQUEEN always existed, we're presumably dealing with a stable time loop (as I failed to get my head around in the Red Dwarf thread re: Stasis Leak). What exactly the Jurati SUPERQUEEN has actually been doing all this time, why we've never heard anything about her, and why she made no moves to stop the Bad Queen is a mystery, unless she too wanted to preserve the timeline by doing more or less nothing for 400 years.

How this plays out from Guinan's perspective is the biggest mystery. She meets Picard in 2024 with no memory of who he is, then befriends Rios and lives on Earth with him for many years. This ensures the future in which Time's Arrow occurs, meaning that as soon as Renee goes into space, Picard (in the 24th Century) went to the 19th Century, which means Guinan should have the memories now. But she doesn't. Presumably, the memories of Time's Arrow just... pop into her head at some point, fully-formed. Reality changes around her and she just remembers both realities, or something.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on May 09, 2022, 06:18:29 PM
I think Lemming has it 100% right. Jurati's Borg splitters stay hidden for 400 years building their cool spaceship, presumably trying not to interfere in the course of history that led to their creation in the first place.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Sherman Krank on May 09, 2022, 06:34:10 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on May 08, 2022, 11:37:53 PMLeaving Rios in the past is like leaving a surgical sponge in a patient's stomach.
Quote from: Alberon on May 08, 2022, 11:40:57 PMIt's farcical. Especially as he set out to make a difference once he stayed behind.
That actually works if the (pre-Nazi) timeline they originally came from was the timeline where Rios stayed behind. So even though Rios' presence in the past would have changed the timeline beyond recognition it's the timeline they regard as history.
Nice Borg Lady staying behind is more problematic what with the Borg being a linked collective. Even if the nice Borg stayed in the Alpha quadrant, when the naughty Borg turned up and started assimilating as soon as they assimilated someone who'd met or even heard about the nice Borg they'd know about them and consider them a far greater threat than a bunch of primitive meat bags.

Quote from: Mobbd on May 09, 2022, 03:12:20 PM...Then, they went backwards in time within that alternate timeline to change it...
That seems to be what those responsible are claiming but it makes no sense. They were sent back in time to three days before the event that changed the timeline to stop it from happening and you can't be within something that doesn't yet exist.
If they'd been sent back to three days after the event to fix it (say they had to build a rudimentary spaceship so they could go and get the magic space dust or whatever the hell it was meant to be) then it would still have been shite but at least made sense.
 
I suspect the writers were watching old DS9 episodes for ideas and have confused an alternate reality/timeline with a parallel universe.
When the DS9 cast wanted a go at being the baddies the writers used a parallel universe so they could piss about as much as they wanted and when they were done whatever happened in the parallel universe stayed in the parallel universe.

After watching Strange New Worlds I now also suspect that Paddy Stewpot has a clause in his contract that gives him script approval and his ego demanded so many rewrites that it fucked everything up.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on May 09, 2022, 06:40:53 PM
Didn't Guinan have the picture of Rios behind the bar the whole time but Picard just didn't notice it when he was there in episode 1?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 09, 2022, 07:14:14 PM
Lemming, you're a marvel. Please accept a sincere thank you for taking the time to explain this gobbledygook.

Quote from: Lemming on May 09, 2022, 04:43:10 PMAs best I can understand it:
Picard was called out on a mission aboard Rios' ship because of his knowledge of Borg. The ship was seemingly attacked by a new BORG SUPERQUEEN. Q sent the gang to an altered future (but within the prime universe) in which Seven was the president of the Evil Federation.

Okay, so it was a/the Prime Universe future. Okay. We'll overlook the idea in Star Trek that the future might not necessarily play out in the way that we have glimpsed. I guess Q just knows it's inevitable unless the intervention is made. Urgh. Fine.

Quote from: Lemming on May 09, 2022, 04:43:10 PMThey went back to 2024 to ensure that a woman called Renee Picard went on a spaceflight, which would save the future.

But why that, I wonder? Why so far back? There was nothing that could be done in the present, without going back in time? Bit hard to believe, isn't it?

Quote from: Lemming on May 09, 2022, 04:43:10 PMDuring their batshit nonsense adventure, Rios fell in love and chose to stay behind, and Jurati merged with the Borg Queen to become the Good Queen.

Cut back to the future where Picard realises the BORG SUPERQUEEN must be Jurati, and tells everyone to stand down. The SUPERQUEEN removes its mask to reveal Jurati, and says she's here to help. I'm not sure if there was an explanation as to what she'd been doing for the past few centuries, but apparently, this had no effect on anything, and TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY all played out as normal. Picard was still assimilated in BoBW (hence him still being called out on this mission for his Borg knowledge), and Seven of Nine had all her original Borg implants back (even though she'd already been given them back by Jurati, who had to give her her exact original implants back in order to heal a wound on her torso, for some reason).

Picard meets with Whoopi-Guinan at the end and she teases him by pointing out that, when they met in episode one, she already knew about his upcoming adventure and put an old photograph of herself and Rios on the bar as a clue.

Since Rios was apparently always in the past, and the Jurati SUPERQUEEN always existed, we're presumably dealing with a stable time loop (as I failed to get my head around in the Red Dwarf thread re: Stasis Leak). What exactly the Jurati SUPERQUEEN has actually been doing all this time, why we've never heard anything about her, and why she made no moves to stop the Bad Queen is a mystery, unless she too wanted to preserve the timeline by doing more or less nothing for 400 years.

How this plays out from Guinan's perspective is the biggest mystery. She meets Picard in 2024 with no memory of who he is, then befriends Rios and lives on Earth with him for many years. This ensures the future in which Time's Arrow occurs, meaning that as soon as Renee goes into space, Picard (in the 24th Century) went to the 19th Century, which means Guinan should have the memories now. But she doesn't. Presumably, the memories of Time's Arrow just... pop into her head at some point, fully-formed. Reality changes around her and she just remembers both realities, or something.

I find myself caring about this stuff very, very little. Do you care as an actual viewer? Christ. None of it matters at all, does it?

Yet I feel like I've been in a brain-kicking machine just trying to understand it. And all for nothing because we're right back to where we were before we even heard about the dark future. Well done, Team Picard. What a waste of time. And what a fucking mess.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on May 09, 2022, 07:46:30 PM
So what is it?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on May 09, 2022, 10:55:32 PM
Quote from: Alberon on May 09, 2022, 07:46:30 PMSo what is it?

And that one.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on May 09, 2022, 11:09:02 PM
"I've never seen one before, no one has. But I'm guessing it's a plot hole."

"So that thing's spewing shit back into the franchise?"

Quote from: Mobbd on May 09, 2022, 07:14:14 PMI find myself caring about this stuff very, very little. Do you care as an actual viewer? Christ. None of it matters at all, does it?

Correct. However - not even joking when I say this - it was all worth it for the scene in which robo-Picard is run over by Evil Soong in a Tesla. There's quite a few laugh-out-loud moments in the show (Seven and Raffi running towards the ship while knifing Borgified Mercs with Counter-Strike knife sound effects was another side-splitter) but nothing's made me laugh as much as that. Paused and did a frame-by-frame analysis and everything, absolutely savouring it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on May 09, 2022, 11:44:01 PM
Did they remove the Borg from the walls of the house?

I mean, I know they didn't. I just find pondering the question funny.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on May 10, 2022, 12:15:43 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on May 09, 2022, 11:44:01 PMDid they remove the Borg from the walls of the house?

I mean, I know they didn't. I just find pondering the question funny.

The Borg are still there but everyone who saw them in the intervening centuries took a vow of secrecy that forbade them to ever mention their existence, as Spock and Pike and half the galactic population did with the existence of Michael Burnham and her ship. Picard saw the Borg as a child but, again, took a vow of secrecy. He already knew of the Borg but still acted surprised during "Q Who?" to keep up the charade.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on May 10, 2022, 09:11:52 AM
Did it seem they were setting Raffi and Enron up as love interests so she could get back with him when the timeline was restored? And then she just snogs Seven, which came out of nowhere, unless we were meant to take their bickering as flirting?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Chairman Yang on May 10, 2022, 11:57:35 AM
I feel like Raffi and Seven was a thing set up in the final picosecond of series 1?

Does this mean Rafaella finally been allowed a second emotion after Unreasonable Anger?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on May 10, 2022, 12:03:48 PM
Raffi and Seven held hands at the end of Season 1. I'm pretty sure that was their only interaction up to that point outside of group scenes.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on May 10, 2022, 02:10:55 PM
Oh right, my mistake. Brilliant storytelling then
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on May 10, 2022, 03:55:34 PM
Apparently Wesley was due to be in another Trek show but that was overruled and he went to Picard instead.


https://trekmovie.com/2022/05/09/star-trek-producers-fought-over-which-new-shows-get-to-bring-back-wesley-crusher/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: kalowski on May 10, 2022, 05:58:50 PM
Didn't Agnes do loads of things in AI and Android technology? But if she's been Borg queen since 2024 I guess she didn't. Including anything she did in Picard S1.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on May 10, 2022, 06:00:58 PM
Quote from: kalowski on May 10, 2022, 05:58:50 PMDidn't Agnes do loads of things in AI and Android technology? But if she's been Borg queen since 2024 I guess she didn't. Including anything she did in Picard S1.

She went back to 2024 after doing those things though.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: grainger on May 10, 2022, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AMI'll stick my head up over the parapet and say; I enjoyed it....for what it was!
Aside from the virtually pointless Wil Wheaton scene,as a long time fan of most of the franchise, I just took it as a nice sci-fi romp. Okay, the real fans who remember every detail of previous 'Trek's will find fault. But I don't have that sort of eidetic memory, so I just sat back and enjoyed it.

I don't hate Picard (the show) because it doesn't match up with tiny morsels of canon. I dislike the show (well S1, I didn't bother with S2), because they made a cynical, grimdark programme that was the opposite of what ST was about, or at least what made it special for me. This could have been a great show in that unique spirit. Or maybe it couldn't - I don't know which possibility is sadder.

If anyone else enjoyed it, then fine, but I just wanted to point out that there are bigger reasons to not enjoy it than mere nitpicky differences with established canon.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: phantom_power on May 11, 2022, 09:08:24 AM
I wouldn't mind it being grimdark if it was well-written but it confuses using long words with intelligent dialogue, out of nowhere shmaltz with emotion and giving someone so bad thing in their past they haven't reconciled with character development.