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Forums => Picture Box => Topic started by: Malcy on June 16, 2021, 06:50:29 PM

Title: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on June 16, 2021, 06:50:29 PM
New trailer with a first look at the big returnee!

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1405204911768342530

And the first trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhsx-loE4Zw

This could be good but not holding my breath. Have seen a few filming pics that suggested an alternate timeline.
Spoiler alert
Like Seven on a bus.
[close]

(https://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/pic-s2-keyart-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on June 16, 2021, 07:07:54 PM
PICARD HAS A ROBOT COCK
PICARD HAS A ROBOT ANUS
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on June 16, 2021, 07:11:47 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on June 16, 2021, 07:07:54 PM
PICARD HAS A ROBOT COCK
PICARD HAS A ROBOT ANUS

Shit, forgot about that. I reckon Q will sort him out because the fans kicked up a stink, i mean because he's nice like that. (Couldn't figure out how to do that line through text thing).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on June 16, 2021, 07:58:34 PM
If he doesn't hug Q, I won't watch the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on June 16, 2021, 09:08:10 PM
All Secret Hideout Trek can fuck off.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on June 16, 2021, 09:38:54 PM
"I've always loved you Q, despite what I said earlier"

I hope Q (as played by Malcolm McDowell) turns Picard back to normal but leaves his robot cock and then Picard goes on adventures with his robot cock throughout the galaxy. The first episode is called Robot Qock.

The Klingons are about to go to war with the Cardassians but then Picard steps up in the centre of the negotiating table and unsheathes his robot cock. Both sides set aside their differences and marvel at his robot cock. 

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on June 16, 2021, 09:52:00 PM
The poster reminded me of an animated teaser poster for True Detective season 2. That I can't now find. But what I did find, oddly, was a promotional poster that looks rather like it has the Starfleet delta on it...

(https://resizing.flixster.com/q7zmiRrKDSsw7_CWA9tJMmdzz2s=/206x305/v1.dDsxNTQ5MTk7ajsxODgxMTsxMjAwOzM5NDs2MDA)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on June 16, 2021, 10:20:37 PM
TIME HAS BEEN BROKEN

Not feeling a shred of optimism for this, honestly, the first season of Picard was outright atrocious. Couldn't stomach Discovery season three at all, either, but this might be worth a shot just to see if they can top their previous glory of incest Romulans and Bruce Maddox's organs exploding.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Deanjam on June 16, 2021, 11:25:47 PM
I always enjoy Q, even when he's in a rubbish story, so will probably watch this. Alternate timelines are also a favourite idea of mine, but there's such a paucity of imagination in the writing of the new Treks that I doubt they'll do anything good with it. Just wish we could eject the new characters and focus on Q, Picard & Seven.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on June 16, 2021, 11:30:52 PM
The first season started well, but the embarrassing shitshow of a resolution ruined everything.

No enthusiasm for this, even with Q. Though, unlike Discovery, I will give it a go.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on June 17, 2021, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: Lemming on June 16, 2021, 10:20:37 PM
TIME HAS BEEN BROKEN

Sounds like the tag line for a shit Doctor Who finale.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on June 18, 2021, 12:33:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/s3FHyOe.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on June 18, 2021, 04:36:33 PM
I accidentally signed up for the free month of Amazon Prime, so I've just watched the first series this week. It is rather naff, but I'd be lying if I said the TNG cameos didn't get to me a bit.

Maybe I'm more horrible than I realised, but
Spoiler alert
before Starfleet turned up in the nick of time
[close]
I was almost rooting for the Romulans
Spoiler alert
to bomb the shit out of the Synths. I know the robots were facing extinction, but instigating pangalactic genocide as a response is going a bit too far
[close]
. Data would have had none of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on June 19, 2021, 11:57:24 AM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on June 16, 2021, 07:58:34 PM
If he doesn't hug Q, I won't watch the rest of the series.
He told Data how wonderful it was to see his strange beautiful face.

He'll hug Q.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 09, 2021, 05:40:36 PM
New trailer up, and it's generic shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEC1FIGqXQ

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 09, 2021, 04:41:41 PM
The new Picard S2 trailer has just come it. It looks fucking shit. 7 of 9 driving an SUV for fuck's sake.

Quote from: Mobbd on September 09, 2021, 05:16:55 PM
Wow, that's significantly worse than even I'd imagined and my expectations were in dog pops territory. Holy shit. That's almost impressive.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 05:53:57 PM
So something changes in the past which basically turns the Federation into a version of the Terran Empire (I saw the fucking symbol)? So that's two Star Trek tropes that are overplayed to shit straight off the bat - Time Travel and the Mirror fucking Universe[nb]Even though it won't technically be the Mirror Universe, it'll be just something exactly like it. Unless this is the creation of the Mirror Universe we see in this episode.[/nb].

And they go back to a setting contemporary to real life. Presumably not for just an episode, which has been done, and can be good, see Future's End, but for a significant portion of the series. That's what I want to watch Star Trek for, to see Picard and Seven as fugitives from 21st century justice. Yeah. Just file the serial numbers off and write an original series, please.

If they manage to make this not be shit, then fair play to them.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Endicott on September 09, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
They won't manage that. I hate prejudging these things, but unfortunately I've seen Picard S1.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:03:07 PM
It looks fucking awful. Why do they need the Borg Queen to time travel? Why does the Romulan elf have a really weird haircut? Why is Kurtzman still in charge and been given a 5 year extension?

I got up early to check everything out from yesterday's event and it was a huge letdown.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:07:34 PM
Season 1 had potential, but the showrunners (Sir Patrick included, btw) just let their need to show how fucking edgy and dark they were ruin it.

This though... like I get Sir Pat's heart in the right place in terms of his politics, and I'm certainly not going to be one of these absolute cretins that demands that their entertainment be 'non-political'. But Star Trek could make it's social and political points and relate the issue of the episode to the real world, without feeling the need have it's characters literally break the fourth wall into the real world to prevent the emergence of a fascist dictatorship. Which is what this looks like it's going to be.

Maybe it'll subvert all my expectations. I certainly hope it does.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 06:08:38 PM

*Mr. Plinkett voice* "Oohh nooo".
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 06:17:36 PM
PICARD IS DEAD

It would be good if they stop all of the xenophobia from the past. Otherwise who knows where it will lead us. We could end up with huge swathes of the populace in bordered off slums by the mid-2020s. We could even end up with a new Hitler leading humanity to World War III. Hopefully Picbot manages to stop that dark future!

Memorable Quotes from Season 2:
Picbot: Q, I am so sick of your bullshit. Fuck off you overpowered cunt.
7 of 9: I did want to kill myself but now I have murdered some people I feel much better. Where is the booze lads? Whey heeeeeey!

Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:07:34 PM
This though... like I get Sir Pat's heart in the right place in terms of his politics, and I'm certainly not going to be one of these absolute cretins that demands that their entertainment be 'non-political'. But Star Trek could make it's social and political points and relate the issue of the episode to the real world, without feeling the need have it's characters literally break the fourth wall into the real world to prevent the emergence of a fascist dictatorship. Which is what this looks like it's going to be.

The politics of Season 1 were some of the most offensive and idiotic shit I have ever seen. In the end the xenophobic group manipulating events turned out to be right and those bad androids (foreigners) turned out to be destined to kill us all (using a big robot octopus).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 09, 2021, 06:19:02 PM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 06:08:38 PM
*Mr. Plinkett voice* "Oohh nooo".

So true! The rising dread.

"Oh, no-no-no-no-no."

I already planned to forgo this because I have been fooled too many times; and even though I read on Ex Astris Scientia that Disco is on something of a continuity tour now in an attempt to set things right, I realised that there's just no goodwill left in me and I won't be insulted again. But this -- this fucking trailer -- is lower than anything I imagined. Fucking hell.

One of the credits I'd give to Picard is that at least it's post-Voyager and not another prequel. It expands the painting (even if the new parts of the painting are utterly repulsive). So let's wreck that one straw a fan can clutch by going back in time now! Why not?

And the Mirror Universe again? Seriously? What is with this obsession? It was SHIT in Discovery, so let's have another dollop.

Still, maybe they'll learn something about timelines and stick Discovery in its own one.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:24:26 PM
Okay but what if they go back in time to the 21st century and it's our 21st century. Like what if the Q-altered dystopian timeline (you know Q did it, right, to fuck with Picard) starts out like our 21st century. No Eugenics Wars/WWIII/post-atomic horror, just end stage capitalism and rampant imperialism extending itself into space while the planet burns and the workers die or are replaced by machines. Imagine if they had the balls to do that.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:25:01 PM
The extremely Irish Tal'Shiar Romulan is back. Hopefully some timeline shenanigans wipes her from existence. And why was there still no sight of Guinan? Goldberg was the first to be announced for it even over the regular cast from S1!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:29:05 PM
Quote from: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:25:01 PM
The extremely Irish Tal'Shiar Romulan is back. Hopefully some timeline shenanigans wipes her from existence.
heaven forbid any ESL speaker not have a British or American accent
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:29:05 PM
heaven forbid any ESL speaker not have a British or American accent

It's not that, it was the Irish slang she used. Made no sense whatsoever. Saved by Picard after saving his life and taken to France. Touchy.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:43:23 PM
Quote from: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
It's not that, it was the Irish slang she used. Made no sense whatsoever. Saved by Picard after saving his life and taken to France. Touchy.
yeah this is the kind of nitpicking shite that makes me not want to talk to other Trek fans. Did you notice how very very incredibly British Picard is or is that okay because you saw TNG first and therefore it's sacred and holy?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:43:23 PM
yeah this is the kind of nitpicking shite that makes me not want to talk to other Trek fans. Did you notice how very very incredibly British Picard is or is that okay because you saw TNG first and therefore it's sacred and holy?

Suggest you don't then.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:50:40 PM
Quote from: Malcy on September 09, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
It's not that, it was the Irish slang she used. Made no sense whatsoever. Saved by Picard after saving his life and taken to France. Touchy.

She's ex-Tal Shiar. Maybe there's a Federation installation worth infiltrating in Ireland and at some point she was stationed there well before the destruction of the Romulan homeworld or meeting Picard. Romulans and Vulcans live for ages, she could easily be 100 years old. Does it really matter anyway? Being super serious, everyone in Star Trek should speak a different version of English to anything that exists currently due to nearly 400 years of the language evolving.

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:24:26 PM
Okay but what if they go back in time to the 21st century and it's our 21st century. Like what if the Q-altered dystopian timeline (you know Q did it, right, to fuck with Picard) starts out like our 21st century. No Eugenics Wars/WWIII/post-atomic horror, just end stage capitalism and rampant imperialism extending itself into space while the planet burns and the workers die or are replaced by machines. Imagine if they had the balls to do that.

Maybe that's what they will do. The "bad" future is actually the one we're going to irl and they have to restore the future where 600 million people die in WWIII cos it's the better one long term. I'm struggling to see how it'll end up as anything but painful to watch though. I didn't like when Enterprise hammered the War on Terror similarities in season 3 right into our eyes and ears with suicide bombers and Trip going on about 'none of the non interference crap' in case watching Archer look for WMDs might be too subtle otherwise. This looks like it could be on the same level.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:57:46 PM
You know Geordi's from Africa, right? So why does he sound American? How come Worf doesn't sound Russian? What's Deanna's accent supposed to be? How come Lwaxana doesn't have one?

I'm not here to claim Picard is perfect. I enjoyed it overall but it really came off the rails at the end and Droid!Picard feels like a cynical way to ensure they can keep making it if anything happens to Patrick Stewart. It's not a recast, we put his brain in a new body. I was also disappointed to see them time-travelling to the 21st century. (Then again, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is beloved by the fandom.) But this fucking picking on stupid shit, like a Romulan sounds Irish and that's SO IMMERSION-BREAKING, she should sound different, it's hard not to picture the stereotypical Star Trek fan when I read it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 06:50:40 PM
Maybe that's what they will do. The "bad" future is actually the one we're going to irl and they have to restore the future where 600 million people die in WWIII cos it's the better one long term. I'm struggling to see how it'll end up as anything but painful to watch though. I didn't like when Enterprise hammered the War on Terror similarities in season 3 right into our eyes and ears with suicide bombers and Trip going on about 'none of the non interference crap' in case watching Archer look for WMDs might be too subtle otherwise. This looks like it could be on the same level.
I would like to be able to watch that story and enjoy the moral dilemma as something purely based in the Star Trek universe but it'll be tough not to read it as "nuclear annihilation would be better than the present 21st century". I'm imagining Picard trying to find a third choice even though that will erase a ton of history.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 07:08:03 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:05:44 PM
I would like to be able to watch that story and enjoy the moral dilemma as something purely based in the Star Trek universe but it'll be tough not to read it as "nuclear annihilation would be better than the present 21st century". I'm imagining Picard trying to find a third choice even though that will erase a ton of history.

Or if he ended up in a situation where he's presented with a 3rd choice that on the surface appears superior, but ends up not taking it because he just can't be sure enough about how it works out in the long term and allows WWIII to happen again.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:13:03 PM
I doubt they will acknowledge WWIII, Phillip Green (future Hitler) or Terra Prime.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:13:03 PM
I doubt they will acknowledge WWIII, Phillip Green (future Hitler) or Terra Prime.
They'd have to acknowledge World War III. People who watch this watched First Contact. Never heard of Phillip Green.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
They'd have to acknowledge World War III. People who watch this watched First Contact. Never heard of Phillip Green.

Future Hitler (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Phillip_Green) from TOS and Enterprise.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 09, 2021, 07:22:35 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:13:03 PM
I doubt they will acknowledge WWIII, Phillip Green (future Hitler) or Terra Prime.

Presuming the setting is the 2020s, it'll be too early for Green who I think was supposed to be post WWIII (so 2050s). They haven't really had a problem pulling names and concepts from classic Trek for NuTrek, wouldn't surprise me if they did mention WWIII and the possible build up to it beginning here etc. But at the same time, maybe we are in Eugenics Wars territory with WWIII, as it's only supposed to be 30 years up the road from when the episode is broadcast. So they may decide to only make passing references at best.

Although a nuclear war being only 30 years away is less fanciful than intergalactic travel being only 30 years away as was depicted in Space Seed coming out in the 60s. Speaking of which, I suspect they will skim over or ignore the Eugenics Wars, seeing as they weren't mentioned in Future's End which was set in 1996, the same year Khan got blasted into space.

What should be going on now are the Sanctuary Districts and the build up to the Bell Riots.

Apologies for the ramble. That post is most unfocussed.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 07:32:13 PM
Oh I don't expect Colonel Green to show up. He is likely a teenager as of 2021. But any future which they stop comes at the price of enabling another. I don't think they will acknowledge the fact that them rescuing the future is them setting up mass murderers or devastating world wars.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on September 09, 2021, 07:40:15 PM
Laughed throughout the trailer - HITLER PICARD - but, you know what, it looks potentially a lot better than the first season, which was just amazingly shit. All the actors proved they were up to the task in S1[nb]with the possible exception of Romulan Samurai Guy, but to be fair to the actor, there was literally no way to make that work, so it's not a fair test of his abilities[/nb], even if the material they were given was abominable, so things like the Seven/Raffi teamup could be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 09, 2021, 08:04:33 PM
We can't have a dark alternate Picard story without referencing Mirror Universe daddy Picard, surely

(https://imgur.com/HAcNov2.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 09, 2021, 08:18:25 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 06:57:46 PM
You know Geordi's from Africa, right? So why does he sound American? How come Worf doesn't sound Russian? What's Deanna's accent supposed to be? How come Lwaxana doesn't have one?

O'Brien is from the Home Counties, he diddled with the Universal Translator to give him that accent. It was either that or Mockney Wankhar.

I want a Scouser on the bridge.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Blumf on September 09, 2021, 08:18:25 PM

I want a Scouser on the bridge.

That makes it sound like they have to announce it when one turns up, like when the Captain arrives and they have to say "Captain on the bridge".
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on September 09, 2021, 09:01:24 PM
That trailer has sucked all the interest out of the show for me. The first season started well before collapsing to a dreadful will-this-do finish.

Now they seem to be rehashing the Terran empire and time travel to the present (which has been hammered to death by thousands of TV shows and films let alone Star Trek itself). Add a splash of geriatric Q and you end up with cold porridge.

I think I read somewhere they'd gone straight into shooting season three which I'd assume would be the end of the show. Can't say I care.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on September 09, 2021, 09:22:53 PM
Maybe people can choose what accent the universal translator gives them. Like a ringtone. Or maybe the Romulan woman dropped hers in a pint of Guinness.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 09, 2021, 09:26:22 PM
She worked undercover in Ireland for the Tal Shiar.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 09, 2021, 09:39:48 PM
Perhaps Philip Green is Dominic Green from Quantum Of Solace's brother, and is played by Rami Malek in No Time To Die? I may be creating an almighty mish-mash of franchises here, but it'd be no more convoluted and contrived than PIC.

Oh, sure, let's time-travel to the past by reanimating the corpse of a Borg Queen, and then leave it in the care of Dr. Kim Pine. I can't see any potential drawbacks to that plan...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM
Kim Pine should be in jail, at this point. She killed a man because her mind was all scrambled from shock sites.[nb]The weakest part of the entire show. Why would Romulans be freaked out by timelapse footage of a fox rotting? Why didn't they see huge pointy things coming right at their eyes while machine language and transformer sounds screeched deafeningly in their ears?[/nb] That won't hold up in any court.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Cloud on September 10, 2021, 01:36:27 AM
Hate the mirror universe, always have, always will. It's shit and overdone and just really lazy for an entire mirror universe to somehow be all inherently evil.

Don't fancy it going into present day either. STV was a novelty once, it doesn't need to be done again as an entire series

Also, too old for Q's shit? Mate, you're an Android. Did the whole "cheating death" thing, remember?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: evilcommiedictator on September 10, 2021, 02:20:41 AM
That trailer looks fucking atrocious. Every ten seconds I'm going "Oh no...."
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: beanheadmcginty on September 10, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
They really need to stop fucking swearing. It's the most incongruous thing to introduce to Star Trek. It doesn't make the characters cool and relatable, it makes them childishly underwritten and shit. Kirk being baffled by profanity in Star Trek 4 is a wonderful moment. Every time I hear them swear in the new stuff it bursts that Shatner balloon.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 07:37:49 AM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 10, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
They really need to stop fucking swearing. It's the most incongruous thing to introduce to Star Trek. It doesn't make the characters cool and relatable, it makes them childishly underwritten and shit. Kirk being baffled by profanity in Star Trek 4 is a wonderful moment. Every time I hear them swear in the new stuff it bursts that Shatner balloon.

The misguided swearing (and now the doubling down on it) is emblematic of the whole problem. These shows are made by tin-eared jocks and businessmen who don't have a clue what is cool, much less what is meaningful.

Their idea of cool is utterly puerile. "SCIENCE: HELL YEAH!"
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 08:39:32 AM
They don't actually swear that much lads. They could cut it back by about 33% but it's not excessive. It just seems like a lot because outside of the movies the TNG cast never swore. Unless it was in Klingon.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 08:47:10 AM
Picard swore in French once or twice in early TNG
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
New Star Trek is a robot that perfectly understands the facts but has no concept of context.

Yes we saw Data cut off from swearing in TNG. Yes we saw Data swear in Generations. But there was a context behind those moments. What is the context of the swearing in New Trek? It is just savage backwards thinking applied to the future (in Star Trek terms).

Fucking idiots.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 09:06:44 AM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
New Star Trek is a robot that perfectly understands the facts but has no concept of context.

Yes we saw Data cut off from swearing in TNG. Yes we saw Data swear in Generations. But there was a context behind those moments. What is the context of the swearing in New Trek? It is just savage backwards thinking applied to the future (in Star Trek terms).

Fucking idiots.
Yeah this is more nitpicking shite, sorry. They never swore before (I wonder if that had anything to do with it being on television and having to abide by broadcasting standards and practices) therefore this is just one more piece of evidence that proves etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 10, 2021, 09:27:48 AM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 08:39:32 AM
They don't actually swear that much lads. They could cut it back by about 33% but it's not excessive. It just seems like a lot because outside of the movies the TNG cast never swore. Unless it was in Klingon.

And it was only that one time we saw a character being vivisected. Just the once, no big deal. Right, guys?

God DAMN! It's so refreshing and grown up to see them all swearing occasionally. You can see it's a real drama now, because they use adult language, like grown ups do,... Yeah mum, I said I'd take the rubbish out, gaawd!!!... anybody complaining about it are just being big babies, not like us, proper grown ups.

Ii mean, Star Trek Picard makes the Fast & Furious films look childish, that's how cool and grown up and mature it is. ... Muuuuum, I said I'd do it! Leave me alone!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 09:36:46 AM
The only sweary bit I remember in S1 was the admiral shutting Picard down. I thought that worked pretty well, as it startled the audience in the same way it startled the man himself to have his demands rejected so abruptly.

The line in the new trailer is a bit more silly, but it's the "i'm way too old" bit that bothers me more tbh. PatStew's been hanging around with Americans for too long.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 10:08:16 AM
That's a good point, actually. He could have said "I am FAR too old..." and even Americans would have understood what he meant ("MOM! That British guy pretending to be French described a period of time using a term for distance!").
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 10:26:38 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 10, 2021, 09:27:48 AM
And it was only that one time we saw a character being vivisected. Just the once, no big deal. Right, guys?

God DAMN! It's so refreshing and grown up to see them all swearing occasionally. You can see it's a real drama now, because they use adult language, like grown ups do,... Yeah mum, I said I'd take the rubbish out, gaawd!!!... anybody complaining about it are just being big babies, not like us, proper grown ups.

Ii mean, Star Trek Picard makes the Fast & Furious films look childish, that's how cool and grown up and mature it is. ... Muuuuum, I said I'd do it! Leave me alone!
Do you need to change your pants after shitting them so much?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: olliebean on September 10, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
Deanna's accent was originally supposed to be a Betazoid accent; the producers asked her to make one up because she was supposed to be exotic. So she came up with one that was a bit of a mish-mash of Eastern European and Israeli accents. Then she got pissed off when her mother didn't have the accent, and basically said What the fuck? to Rick Berman, who brushed her off by telling her the character had her father's accent (which makes no sense because her father was supposed to be human). So she got pissed off again later when her father didn't have the accent, and basically said What the double fuck?? to Berman, who brushed her off by telling her they'd sent her away to school. After that I think she pretty much let the accent lapse, because basically What the fuck???
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on September 10, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
That's the problem when a lead actor does an accent, guest actors rarely copy them. See also Londo Mollari in Babylon 5.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on September 10, 2021, 09:06:44 AM
Yeah this is more nitpicking shite, sorry. They never swore before (I wonder if that had anything to do with it being on television and having to abide by broadcasting standards and practices) therefore this is just one more piece of evidence that proves etc.



Swearing changes the tone of something. Like how early Big Finish had swearing in before fans complained. It doesn't matter if there was another reason they didn't swear back then, why change it now that it has been established as part of the tone of the series? Particularly when there was a specific moment in one film in which that language was deemed backwards.

But frankly it is the least of its problems. Just one of a myriad  of reasons why it is shit. If it was just swearing that I didn't  like about it then I'd probably not even mention it. You inevitably nitpick when something is as bad as Picard is.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: Alberon on September 10, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
That's the problem when a lead actor does an accent, guest actors rarely copy them. See also Londo Mollari in Babylon 5.

But that could be ignored, because it's not improbably that Centauri could have all sorts of accents, and we never saw anyone he was directly related to by birth.

Where the system does break down is when you have a CBBC show like Millie Inbetween (starting CaB's own James Bachman) where the kids have a Scottish accent despite neither parent having one.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 01:54:52 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on September 10, 2021, 12:53:25 PM
Swearing changes the tone of something. Like how early Big Finish had swearing in before fans complained. It doesn't matter if there was another reason they didn't swear back then, why change it now that it has been established as part of the tone of the series? Particularly when there was a specific moment in one film in which that language was deemed backwards.

Yeah, sorry Poirot but I agree with James. And I so wish I could agree with Poirot! I was never one of those nitpicker fans.[nb]"My mum says I'm cool!"[/nb] I hear what sounds like abject nerdery coming out of my mouth (or fingertips) but I think it's more than that and actually it's a legitimately important point about art and writing more broadly. The swearing, no matter how infrequent it may be, is stylistically a bad choice.

That Admiral telling Picard to "shut the fuck up" was shockingly wrong. (At least we're not in prequel territory for once though, so we're not being asked to accept that Admiralty always spoke that way).

I see the detail of the swearing as emblematic of one of the bigger problems with New Trek. The producers think that Dark = Badass = Mature = Good. When actually it's Dark = Lame + Childish = Poopies.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
No problem with swearing in Star Trek - the way people speak in the 90s shows is kind of stilted and odd - but it feels very knowing and giddy in neo-Trek. "You're right ensign, it is fucking cool!!!", "shut the fuck up," etc. Lame. Same for Picard saying he has no time for Q's "bullsh-" in the trailer.

Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
No problem with swearing in Star Trek - the way people speak in the 90s shows is kind of stilted and odd - but it feels very knowing and giddy in neo-Trek. "You're right ensign, it is fucking cool!!!", "shut the fuck up," etc. Lame. Same for Picard saying he has no time for Q's "bullsh-" in the trailer.

Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.

Actually, that's great, Lemming. Yeah. I'd be open-minded in principle about swearing in Trek if it didn't sound so awkward and crow-barred. Stilted is exactly the word.

I guess it's stilted because it's deployed in contexts (I might say a universe, but maybe that's too far) where real people would be unlikely to swear. Old dignified European man saying "bullshit" like an American teen; people swearing at work; a decorated Admiral in a not-particularly-stressful scenario. It's just so weird; this is why I think they're trying too hard to be cool and I just find that gross. It's like Jessie Pinkman putting chili powder in the meth. Inexpert. Dumb.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:54:50 PM
Yeah, exactly - same for other elements in neo-Trek, like the violence. There can be (and obviously always has been) violence in Star Trek, but maybe it shouldn't take the form of a Romulan Samurai kid delivering cool one-liners before slicing nameless, faceless people's heads off, or Icheb graphically getting his eyeball torn out of his head and dying. Same problem I had with a lot of the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Endicott on September 10, 2021, 05:10:36 PM
It's hard to get worked up either way re the swearing in Picard, but just for the hulluvit someones put all the older series swearing in a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErazOHgjhQ
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 05:29:07 PM
And yet they missed out the best one of all. (https://youtu.be/3IPyJ_b4HSc)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mobbd on September 10, 2021, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: Endicott on September 10, 2021, 05:10:36 PM
It's hard to get worked up either way re the swearing in Picard, but just for the hulluvit someones put all the older series swearing in a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ErazOHgjhQ

ahaha, that was awesome. The only one I didn't like was Scotty's "Klingon bitch" - the others all had appropriate weight and were beautiful.

Fave might have been Kirk's "no, no dipshit" one. Exceptionally funny and endearing.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: greenman on September 10, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: mothman on September 10, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
But that could be ignored, because it's not improbably that Centauri could have all sorts of accents, and we never saw anyone he was directly related to by birth.

There were also quite a few character who did have accents like Londo, Refa most obviously and I seem to remember the friend Londo duels with? coincidental in both cases the most obvious lack of accent was Majel Barrett.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wonderful Butternut on September 10, 2021, 07:01:37 PM
Swearing in Star Trek only doesn't work when a big deal is made out of it and the writers leave it hang in the air so the audience have time to react to the imaginary taboo being broken by a Star Trek character saying rude words. Like when Disco dropped the first F-Bomb, or even Data's "Oh shit!" in Generations. Oh and Admiral Sheer Fucking Hubris doesn't work, but that's partly because she wasn't a believable character anyway, imo.

Picard saying he has no time for Q's bullshit or Riker commenting that they were through 'running from these bastards' in Insurrection seem fine to me imo.

Quote from: Lemming on September 10, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
Not really swearing but there's a terrible line in Picard where he goes to Troi and Riker's Alaskan getaway home and says "you wanna be ass-deep in Romulans for the rest of your life?" The line is so awkward forcing its way out of Patrick Stewart's lips. Not something Picard would ever be likely to say. Something Butt-Head might say.

Picard was quoting what Riker said to him years previously with the "ass-deep in Romulans" remark, so the question is: "is it something Riker would say?". Doesn't seem nearly as wrong a statement to come out of Riker's as opposed to Picard's.

Although if they had kept the original (better) ending scenes for Insurrection, we would've gotten Picard saying "Top level review my ass": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-UxpMUvfJ4&ab_channel=Vudu
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
Quote from: greenman on September 10, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
There were also quite a few character who did have accents like Londo, Refa most obviously and I seem to remember the friend Londo duels with? coincidental in both cases the most obvious lack of accent was Majel Barrett.

His much younger lady friend Adira as well. Maybe at least one of his wives. The Centauri accent is pretty broad, even I can do a decent approximation and i'm not a trained actor or nuffink. Stephen Furst and Majel Barrett were both just lazy (RIP)

Edit: It's pretty much how Tommy Wiseau naturally speaks now I think about it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 10, 2021, 08:09:29 PM
Peter Jurasik said that whenever he had trouble slipping back into the accent, he would just say "Mr. Garibaldi!" and it'd come flooding back.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Cloud on September 11, 2021, 01:44:09 AM
I watched B5 before I knew what a garibaldi was.  And then watched Life on Mars and wondered why the various witness interviewees kept asking for biscuits named after that bloke on B5.

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on September 10, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
They really need to stop fucking swearing.

Yeah, the foul mouthed cunts.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Kelvin on September 11, 2021, 02:02:39 AM
The trailer looks horrendous, and I'm not sure what value there is a rewritten past that has turned society into a fascist state, when the Federation has already, in the existing continuity, been transformed into a ruthless, xenophobic, valueless pile of shit anyway. No, it's not currently out and out fascism, but it's already moved far enough from the original utopian vision of Star Trek that there's no stark parallel - or tension - in creating a new, hateful world in its place.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Wentworth Smith on September 11, 2021, 09:38:39 PM
The trailer with Nazi Picard makes it look just like a mirror universe episode and I have zero interest in that. The makers of this and Discovery seem to really dislike Star Trek with their constant moving the story away from the actual Star trek universe.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 11, 2021, 10:16:09 PM
The banners at the rally are similar in shape to the Terran Empire symbol, but definitely different overall. At the risk of reopening a discussion we had in the TNG thread, I think this is intended to be an altered timeline rather than a different universe.

Unless Kurtzmann & co really have taken it upon themselves to show the point of divergence/creation of the Mirror Universe - which I certainly wouldn't put past them! But I maintain I think it's not the MU.

I wonder whether this season's storyline is a reaction to the fan dislike of the grimdark 25th-century Federation? "It could be a LOT worse, see?!"
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Alberon on September 11, 2021, 10:28:46 PM
I'm sure it's not the Mirror Universe, but really how different is another 'evil Federation' going to be?

Hasn't Discovery plowed that field enough recently? Can't the showrunners find something new and different to play with?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: greenman on September 12, 2021, 01:09:53 AM
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on September 10, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
His much younger lady friend Adira as well. Maybe at least one of his wives. The Centauri accent is pretty broad, even I can do a decent approximation and i'm not a trained actor or nuffink. Stephen Furst and Majel Barrett were both just lazy (RIP)

Edit: It's pretty much how Tommy Wiseau naturally speaks now I think about it.

Impossible to say "Vir" in any other way.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: Cloud on September 12, 2021, 01:55:45 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

B7 was downright cheerful compared to some of Picard S1

Mind, so was Eastenders.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: chveik on September 12, 2021, 01:58:08 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

i've been watching MillenniuM, i don't think you can get more grim dark than that. it's great though
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: jamiefairlie on September 12, 2021, 05:48:05 AM
Quote from: Blumf on September 11, 2021, 11:15:44 PM
Everybody wants to be grim-dark, just fucking remake Blake's 7.

Yeah, or Sapphire and Steel, in fact both!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard S2
Post by: mothman on September 12, 2021, 10:08:27 AM
Someone spotted a scene in the trailer where Picard is being interrogated by what could be a 21st century police detective, played by Jay Karnes, best known for playing Dutch in The Shield. However, once upon a time he also played Lt. Ducane of the Federation timeship Relativity in the VOY episode of the same name. Which could just be a coincidence - he went on to bigger and better things after all - but if so, it's a hell of a one...