Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => Picture Box => Topic started by: olliebean on August 11, 2021, 07:07:58 PM

Title: What If...?
Post by: olliebean on August 11, 2021, 07:07:58 PM
So what...?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: bakabaka on August 11, 2021, 08:05:00 PM
A show where things that didn't happen didn't happen differently? Can't wait.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Dr Rock on August 11, 2021, 08:06:12 PM
It was ok. The animation's nice.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 11, 2021, 10:19:23 PM
Two things struck me. First, yes, the animation was great. And it allowed them to do things they probably could have done in live action with CGI, but would have looked crap if they had. Like the aerial scene with Peggy attacking the bombers. Second, it’s odd how some of the voice cast somehow didn’t sound like it was actually them doing it! Cooper and Stan in particular.

And then there’s something that just doesn’t make any sense to me: the point of divergence. What difference does it make where Peggy Carter is in this scene? Here’s (https://youtu.be/oNlRQujyHak) the original transformation scene. And here’s (https://youtu.be/FRWNieb1O58) the aftermath. Why does Carter not being in the booth make THE difference? Especially since in the original the infiltrator and his Zippo-activated book-bomb[1] are both up there too, but appear to not be for the purposes of What If?
 1. Insert John Peel joke.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on August 11, 2021, 10:43:07 PM
It was a nice bit of fluff to occupy half a hour. I'm surprised (beyond Atwell) that they bothered to get anyone else to do the voices - though I did wonder if they just reused Tucci's dialogue from the original Cap America film.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Alberon on August 11, 2021, 10:55:29 PM
I've seen a bit of it and it looks decent enough animation and voice acting, but it does seem largely pointless. How do you avoid the Rick and Morty 'no consequences' problems?

The only way this could really become interesting is if some arc story emerges from the series as it goes along, but that seems unlikely. Otherwise it's hard to see this being of much interest.

What if Captain America was afraid of anchovies?
What if Doctor Strange couldn't pronounce the letter P?
What if the Hulk had IBS?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 11, 2021, 11:38:44 PM
The Watcher or whatever his name was saying at the end he can observe but never interfere… yeah right, dead fucking giveaway straightaway. Let’s just start calling him The Interferer right now, it’ll save time later.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: madhair60 on August 11, 2021, 11:44:30 PM
mcu content conveyor belt crimps off another greasy log
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: bgmnts on August 11, 2021, 11:46:16 PM
The Watcher or whatever his name was saying at the end he can observe but never interfere… yeah right, dead fucking giveaway straightaway. Let’s just start calling him The Interferer right now, it’ll save time later.

Yeah The Watcher sucks. With his big fat head. Honestly most extraterrestrial space opera shit in Marvel is crap to me, except the Dark Phoenix saga I think.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: madhair60 on August 11, 2021, 11:57:45 PM
just watched the first two minutes and the actual stupidest, most intelligence insulting thing i've ever seen happen in anything, ever, happened. so that's off.

anyone who likes this cannot discern good things from bad, i'm sorry.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 12, 2021, 12:19:51 AM
You’ll have to be more specific, this is Marvel we’re talking about after all.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: olliebean on August 12, 2021, 07:59:04 AM
2 minutes just about gets you past the intro.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on August 12, 2021, 09:18:24 AM

The only way this could really become interesting is if some arc story emerges from the series as it goes along, but that seems unlikely. Otherwise it's hard to see this being of much interest.


There is an overarching plot which ties into Loki and the incoming multiverse films. It is directly tied to the larger MCU.

The guy doing Steve was better than actual Sebastian Stan. Dominic Cooper seemed to get the tone right whereas Hayley Atwell was a bit OTT. I think they'll get better. Animation was really nice and more animated projects, including a Pixar/Marvel collaboration could be an interesting new avenue to explore whilst big Bix office films seem in jeopardy.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: madhair60 on August 12, 2021, 01:17:06 PM
Animation was really nice

Really? I think it's hideous
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: bakabaka on August 12, 2021, 06:34:32 PM
Really? I think it's hideous
When one of the three main influences is Norman Rockwell, you know that 'visually interesting' was never part of the remit. It was never going to be even Tron Uprising.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on August 12, 2021, 06:57:05 PM
Really? I think it's hideous

Oh no! Should I try and change your mind or something?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Oh, Nobody on August 12, 2021, 10:57:02 PM
I enjoy hearing Hayley Atwell gasp and grunt for thirty minutes as much as the next guy but JESUS.

Whedon-level quips, bland design, bland animation, first-take style acting from celebs with not particularly distinctive voices (presumably half the budget), about four DO YOU GET IT THAT THING HAPPENED IN THE MOVIE SEE moments and the threat of it all tying together into some kind of 'Multiverse Avengers' bullshit meant I couldn't enjoy this through my furrowing brow. Five bags of dogshit.

Had to watch an episode of Goof Troop to cleanse the palate.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: colacentral on August 12, 2021, 11:24:19 PM
I've seen a bit of it and it looks decent enough animation and voice acting, but it does seem largely pointless. How do you avoid the Rick and Morty 'no consequences' problems?

The only way this could really become interesting is if some arc story emerges from the series as it goes along, but that seems unlikely. Otherwise it's hard to see this being of much interest.

What if Captain America was afraid of anchovies?
What if Doctor Strange couldn't pronounce the letter P?
What if the Hulk had IBS?

Why does it need to have an arc to be interesting? It's standalone episodes, 30 minutes each, the way 99% of TV has been for the majority of time it's existed.

I was expecting this to be shat so it performed above my expectations. I agree partially with negative comments about the animation. It's not to my taste, very stiff, but it worked well in the action scenes.

Compared to grown up TV, not great. Compared to other Saturday morning kids action cartoons, decent.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on August 13, 2021, 10:27:57 AM
Why does it need to have an arc to be interesting? It's standalone episodes, 30 minutes each, the way 99% of TV has been for the majority of time it's existed.

the animation. It's not to my taste, very stiff, but it worked well in the action scenes.


I can understand the animation not being everyone's taste,  what is?

Calling it stiff though and praising the action scenes? They merely exentuated the fluidity that was on display throughout, really the movement was exceptional. The character designs are Disney and some of the voicing stilted but as you say compared to it's cohort, it's good.

My kids certainly enjoyed it but try explaining many worlds theory to an 8 year old. Chadwick Boseman is in three of these which will be emotional.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: colacentral on August 13, 2021, 10:49:25 AM
I can understand the animation not being everyone's taste,  what is?

Calling it stiff though and praising the action scenes? They merely exentuated the fluidity that was on display throughout, really the movement was exceptional. The character designs are Disney and some of the voicing stilted but as you say compared to it's cohort, it's good.

My kids certainly enjoyed it but try explaining many worlds theory to an 8 year old. Chadwick Boseman is in three of these which will be emotional.

It's stiff in dialogue scenes, scenes with not much movement,  particularly early in the episode, and the lip syncing is atrocious. That's because they've tried to go towards the more realistic side design wise, and the more you go towards that, the more difficult it gets for the eye not to be distracted by all the ways that the animation isn't quite true to life. The more realistic character designs lend themselves well to action scenes though because there's less attention to fine details that we're used to looking for in real life, ie natural body movements, particularly in the face. The movements of the fight scenes are already too exaggerated to be mistaken for real, so the mind accepts them more readily.

The best moments for me animation wise were when it was most exaggerated and cartoony. There were times when some of the facial expressions almost reminded me of Aardman stuff, and I'd have liked them to tweak the designs more towards that personally.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Povidone on August 13, 2021, 11:53:55 AM
Fairly slight, perfunctory marvel entry but as usual enjoyable enough. Thought it could have done with diverging from the events of the first captain america film though, by the time it starts getting interesting the episode is nearly over.

Hopefully things will get a bit more outlandish in subsequent episodes.

My biggest problen is that in another of Marvel's poorly kept secrets this seems to be leading up to some kind of team up or larger story within its own continuity which im not really that up for. Im a sucker for connections in the movies, thats pretty much what keeps me coming back and im fine with that. But I was put off by the notion thats going to happen here, Id rather see them do self contained stories on this one.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 13, 2021, 12:58:15 PM
There were times when some of the facial expressions almost reminded me of Aardman stuff, and I'd have liked them to tweak the designs more towards that personally.
Be careful what you wish for.
(https://external-preview.redd.it/TGNgWFL6s_PWX_WAn0q4zGLDJIfJZ1DmytfvN-CCUPA.jpg?auto=webp&s=67da6f83470475b71865dea8554dbe8e5fd48329)
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Bad Ambassador on August 13, 2021, 01:03:17 PM
The plotting was atrocious. First the SSR have the Tesseract, then Hydra suddenly does with no explanation, then later Carter pushes the tentacles back into their home dimension or what ever the fuck, and the portal comes out in, I dunno, SHIELD headquarters? Who wrote this shit?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 13, 2021, 01:27:37 PM
The Nazis had the Tesseract, Carter took it off them, Stark used it to power the Iron Chap or whatever the suit was called, then Red Skull set a trap to capture Rogers and retrieve the Tesseract from the suit. Hence Rogers having to run the suit off a normal generator when the Posse rescued him.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Bad Ambassador on August 13, 2021, 02:24:20 PM
The Nazis had the Tesseract, Carter took it off them, Stark used it to power the Iron Chap or whatever the suit was called, then Red Skull set a trap to capture Rogers and retrieve the Tesseract from the suit. Hence Rogers having to run the suit off a normal generator when the Posse rescued him.

Ah, fine. I'm not sure it was clear the suit was powered by the Tesseract. I thought the big aqualung on his back was a jetpack or something, like if the Rocketeer wore a suit of armour.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 13, 2021, 02:27:28 PM
It probably was exactly that - but just one powered by it.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: TwinPeaks on August 15, 2021, 01:04:09 AM
Fights were fun but the Cap America 1 retreading was dull and the bits that were different were rubbish.
The guy who played Steve Rogers sounded more like Chris Evans than the other actual actors sounded like themselves.
I think they should have kicked it off with Boseman in Guardians of the Galaxy, though "what if x character was y character instead" isn't interesting to me at all. I'm not really fussed by any of the ideas I've read for this series really. Maybe whichever one the Dr Strange one is will be good! Aside from that errrr I guess I'll just be waiting for the Hawkeye show since I loved the Fraction/Aja run
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: olliebean on August 18, 2021, 11:29:59 AM
Having seen Den of Geek are reviewing these in a format that includes "Required Viewing" from the previous MCU oeuvre at the top, I realised that this series is aimed at people who are way more invested in the whole MCU timeline than I am. For me it's "So what?" because it's exploring what if something happened differently from how it happened in a film from several years back that I may have enjoyed at the time but wasn't bothered enough about to store the details of the plot in my long-term memory. It's a stupid spot-the-difference game that I'm not interested in playing.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Glebe on August 18, 2021, 02:56:28 PM
Watched the first episode, found it enjoyable for what it was.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Huxleys Babkins on August 18, 2021, 03:06:24 PM
Fair fucks to Toby Jones for picking up a day's pay to say two lines.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: AsparagusTrevor on August 18, 2021, 03:27:47 PM
The guy who played Steve Rogers sounded more like Chris Evans than the other actual actors sounded like themselves.

Dominic Cooper especially, he was terrible. Apart from forgetting how to do an American accent his delivery was bordering on parody.

It's all well and good having the proper people doing the voices where they can, but there's a huge difference between voice-acting and regular acting, proper voice-actors will usually do a much better job.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Povidone on August 18, 2021, 04:16:17 PM
Second episode is fun enough, makes better use of the premise than the previous one with some interesting changes to the characters.

It's all still pretty slight though, just breezes through its minimal plot with no time for much exposition or character depth. As mentioned upthread totally inessential for anyone not reasonably invested in the MCU already. Seems like a lot of money to spend on what feels like a quick tie-in comic.

Watching all of Invincible between these two episodes probably hasnt helped my enjoyment of this series.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Mr_Simnock on August 18, 2021, 06:53:54 PM
I've seen a bit of it and it looks decent enough animation and voice acting, but it does seem largely pointless. How do you avoid the Rick and Morty 'no consequences' problems?

The only way this could really become interesting is if some arc story emerges from the series as it goes along, but that seems unlikely. Otherwise it's hard to see this being of much interest.

What if Captain America was afraid of anchovies?
What if Doctor Strange couldn't pronounce the letter P?
What if the Hulk had IBS?


you could run with this

What if Hawkeye was bogeyed
What if Thor had persistent genital arousal disorder
What if Tony Stark couldn't count
What if Vision was blind
What if Black Widow was married

Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 18, 2021, 10:40:40 PM
Making Karen Gillan blonde? Sod this show!
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on August 18, 2021, 10:44:53 PM
I agree that they tried to pack a lot into half a hour, but I did enjoy Thanos being defeated by the power of a good counter-argument and the alternate storyline basically meaning the universe was set to be destroyed anyways.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 18, 2021, 11:54:34 PM

Second episode is fun enough, makes better use of the premise than the previous one with some interesting changes to the characters.

... As mentioned upthread totally inessential for anyone not reasonably invested in the MCU already.
I am reasonably invested in the MCU (not financially, sadly) and it feels pretty inessential to me as well.
In fact, I reckon it's probably better if you don't think too much about the films. At the risk of sounding like a big nerd, this one didn't really feel like it was extrapolating from a single change to the canon. You could have replaced T'challa with pretty much any other character and still done the same story. It was less "What If?" and more "Why Not?"
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Povidone on August 19, 2021, 12:22:59 AM
Thats a pretty good assessment of it. The point of divergence was really arbitrary and dumb...which was also true of last episode but they did put a little bit of effort into showing how that would play out in the moment. Seems like they had the idea that T'Challa is inherently a better person than Quill and went from there.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 19, 2021, 12:24:38 AM
The Toby Jones Award For Excellence In The Field Of A Lucrative Five Minutes’ Work goes to… Carrie Coon! Yay!

The Sebastian Stan Award For Sounding Like It Could Be Literally Anyone goes to… Benecio Del Toro! Boo!

I enjoyed this one, it was a fun if still-inconsequential little romp. I do wonder if they dialled up the hagiographising a bit after CB’s death, it did feel a bit much at times, like they were Mary-Sueing the character somewhat. But I’d not hold that against them, it was a nice tribute.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 19, 2021, 12:34:26 AM
The Toby Jones Award For Excellence In The Field Of A Lucrative Five Minutes’ Work goes to… Carrie Coon! Yay!
I think she already won that for Infinity War.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Povidone on August 19, 2021, 12:48:39 AM
The Sebastian Stan Award For Sounding Like It Could Be Literally Anyone goes to… Benecio Del Toro!

Haha! Having seen his name in the opening credits every time he opened his mouth I wondered why they bothered. There was maye one line that felt like it came from the Del Toro 'Collector' we'd already been introduced to.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on August 19, 2021, 10:23:38 AM
Voice work of Chadwick Boseman, Josh Brolin and Michael Rooker really elevated this one. Maybe they recorded together as the tone was so much more consistent than last week.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Bad Ambassador on August 19, 2021, 10:42:59 AM
Djimon Hounsou was superb, never heard/seen him do comedy before. I like that halfway through, he starts calling T'Challa his best friend in conversations with others.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: AsparagusTrevor on August 19, 2021, 09:15:55 PM
This week's was miles better, lots of fun. Like others have said the voice work from the MCU actors seemed much improved.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: madhair60 on August 19, 2021, 10:48:44 PM
Oh no! Should I try and change your mind or something?

yeah
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 19, 2021, 10:49:26 PM
Djimon Hounsou was superb, never heard/seen him do comedy before. I like that halfway through, he starts calling T'Challa his best friend in conversations with others.

It’s a shame that Prime Korath is no more - or rather, no great loss, because this alternate is a lot more fun, and I really hope this boosts his standing with the producers and they’re inspired to bring him back for live action multiversal LOLZ.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Glebe on August 22, 2021, 05:18:53 PM
Second episode was also decent fun. Rather bittersweet that it's Boseman's last thing.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: tubbsthespidergigolo2 on August 22, 2021, 08:29:34 PM
Second episode was also decent fun. Rather bittersweet that it's Boseman's last thing.

Apparently, he's in three more episodes.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: bakabaka on August 22, 2021, 10:19:45 PM
The animation for these is done by creating it in 3D CGI and then giving everything a flat render, which explains the lifelessness of it all. It also implies that we will almost exclusively be seeing things that they have already got the assets of, be it characters, locations, etc. Because it's so much cheaper and quicker using products you've already paid for.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: letsgobrian on August 26, 2021, 02:00:48 PM
Episode 3 really captures the tone of a lot of the old What If...? comics in that it is pointlessly bleak and sadistic.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Dr Rock on August 26, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
I enjoyed it, but isn't it a bit of a retcon that Fury would be considering Thor for The Avengers at that point? He's just a big tough bloke after a strange hammer at the point of his death. And his existence has only been registered a few minutes earlier, too soon for either Fury and thus Pym to have their sights on him.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: C_Larence on August 27, 2021, 12:18:24 AM
I enjoyed it, but isn't it a bit of a retcon that Fury would be considering Thor for The Avengers at that point? He's just a big tough bloke after a strange hammer at the point of his death. And his existence has only been registered a few minutes earlier, too soon for either Fury and thus Pym to have their sights on him.

IIRC it’s covered in the final confrontation, with Fury denying having any plans to recruit Thor and Pym countering that he was bound to eventually
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on August 27, 2021, 10:57:41 AM
The Toby Jones Award For Excellence In The Field Of A Lucrative Five Minutes’ Work is shared by… Jaimie Alexander and Frank Grillo!

The Sebastian Stan Award For Sounding Like It Could Be Literally Anyone goes to… Jeremy Renner!

Honorary mention for Michael Douglas for sounding like someone doing a bad impression of himself.

And the inaugural Robert Downey Jr. Award For Re-recording Verbatim Lines That Could Have Been Recycled Wholesale From The Movie goes to… Nick Wingert!
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Mister Six on August 28, 2021, 05:45:59 PM
I bet they couldn't afford whatever Downey would ask for reusing those lines, though. Blame Crispin Glover.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on August 28, 2021, 06:09:35 PM
I just can't be arsed with this, and I'm not sure why as I've hoovered up every other MCU thing bar Winter Soldier. Hopefully it'll run for such a long time that it'll start getting silly, I remember after a while some of the What If? comics were ridiculously daft and enjoyed that element a lot. This article* has some of the ones I was fond of, not all the issues they write about were all that but I remember "What if Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive sheep?" being amusing, and "What if Nick Fury had fought WWII in outer space?" was entertaining too.


*https://www.looper.com/450380/the-weirdest-what-if-stories-from-marvel-comics/
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Povidone on September 03, 2021, 12:56:03 AM
Episode 3 really captures the tone of a lot of the old What If...? comics in that it is pointlessly bleak and sadistic.

That would be this latest episode

Went from finding it unbearable to being strangely* compelling. The entire hook of the episode was "is this going to commit to the bleakness being set up" and it pretty much did, so fair play. I think this might be the best one of these so far, was nice to see it having some fun animation after last week's looking like a tossed off episide of Archer.

*no relation
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on September 03, 2021, 08:17:43 AM
Yeah that was leagues ahead of the rest, Props to Benedict Cumberbatch, always at full tilt. Beauty and the Beast meets Fantasia in a time machine on a brutally bad trip.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on September 03, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
It was two 'What If...?'s in one, wasn't it?

What if Christine Palmer had gone to the event with Strange and then what if Strange decides to try and change the past or not.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 04, 2021, 01:13:55 AM
As before, the focal point of the change didn’t seem relevant to the original sequence of events. How does her being in the car lead to his circumstances after the crash being different? And, original Strange was such an arsehole, would the death have caused him to follow the same path that led him to sorcery? In the original timeline he was looking for a cure for his hands; in the altered one, he’s looking for… what?

However, it was a fantastically bleak tale, with - a first - all the original actors voicing their parts. I could give The Sebastian Stan Award For Sounding Like It Could Be Literally Anyone to Rachel MacAdams, but the main thing is it WAS her doing it and that should be commended. The Toby Jones Award For Excellence In The Field Of A Lucrative Five Minutes’ Work could probably go to Leslie Bibb though!

Funnily enough the one person I wondered if it really was them doing it was Tilda Swinton..!
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 04, 2021, 08:33:42 PM
It was a bit of a downer, wasn't it? Even more than last week's. I was going to say that the episodes should be released on Saturday mornings, but I can't imagine the kiddiwinks enjoying those ones while they munch their breakfast cereal.

As before, the focal point of the change didn’t seem relevant to the original sequence of events. How does her being in the car lead to his circumstances after the crash being different? And, original Strange was such an arsehole, would the death have caused him to follow the same path that led him to sorcery? In the original timeline he was looking for a cure for his hands; in the altered one, he’s looking for… what?

Yeah. It seemed a bit dumb (and more than a bit fridgey) that her death was meant to be some essential point in time, when it seemed like things played out just as they did in the film anyway.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 05, 2021, 09:37:33 PM
And, it’s just occurred to me, they pinched the idea of the 2002 version of The Time Machine - the Guy Pearce and Samantha Mumba (whatever happened to her?) one. In that the time machine is invented so he can go back to save the love of his life. But it always fails and she still dies. Because - as a chief Morlock played by Jeremy Irons later explains - it was her death that caused him to invent time travel. I’m not sure that explanation makes any more sense than this one here…
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on September 05, 2021, 09:52:10 PM
I suppose it makes less sense because in another timeline (that the original Dr Strange film occurs in), she doesn't go to the party with him, doesn't die and indeed saves his life later on - something the episode ignores.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 05, 2021, 10:21:59 PM
Yes, you could hypothesise that maybe his changing his trip to include her changed the nature of the accident. The crash is certainly different in the film (https://youtu.be/WUZ5S9jEdjs): he overtakes another vehicle, then is distracted and hits it. The alternate seems to rely on another car behind going even faster and running into the back of them. But he tried not taking her and her building burns down and she dies anyway. You could argue that planning not to go vs. being stood up might influence where she ended up that night, but..?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on September 06, 2021, 10:25:16 AM
The supreme Strange timeline has subtle differences before the car accident. Evidently he and Rachel are in a much closer relationship already and Strange seems more charming, certainly less caustic.

With his hands intact he is able to master sorcery faster and with greater ability which may explain how he avoided getting chibbed by Kaecillius or his mob, I forget how that happens in the film. The Dormmamu confrontation plays out the same so his use of time loops figures.

I expect Supreme Strange to crossover into the live action films along with Captain Carter and possibly others.

Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: canted_angle_again on September 06, 2021, 08:41:33 PM
Pretty sure the big squid thing is going to be the 'big bad' of the series...if there is one.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Glebe on September 06, 2021, 08:58:29 PM
Apparently, he's in three more episodes.

Oh yeah, duh.

Anyway, enjoying these. Some great visuals in the Doc Strange episode. And The Watcher is getting directly involved now!
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 06, 2021, 10:02:01 PM
Pretty sure the big squid thing is going to be the 'big bad' of the series...if there is one.
I'm fine with each episode standing on its own, but if it's all leading to this guy showing up, it'll all be worth it.
(https://www.arcade-fighter.com/images/game-screens/marvel-vs-capcom-clash-of-super-heroes/sprites/marvel/mshvssf-shuma-gorath.gif)
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: bakabaka on September 07, 2021, 08:19:33 AM
For some reason the word 'pompous' appeared in my head during the opening Marvel credits this week. And was reinforced time and again throughout the episode. I had expected that this series would reawaken my interest in the MCU, but instead it has just made the whole thing feel even more up itself. It's hard to take it as good, old-fashioned pulp entertainment when it pushes itself as cosmically important.

Saw the Ray Harryhausen exhibition a couple of days ago - so much more impressive and an antidote to the anodyne corporate animation that Marvel churns out (as animation or CGI).
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on September 07, 2021, 09:28:58 AM
Hardly an honest critique of the show or episode itself. Just a broad statement of anti Disney sentiment.

"Ooh I went to an exhibition of a beloved animator and it was better than a cartoon."

Anodyne? Hardly. Corporate? Certainly but compared to what? All those independent, underground superhero  films?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 07, 2021, 09:53:40 AM
Agree. If you don’t like Marvel or Disney then I doubt What If will change your viewpoint at all. It’s an adaptation of a long-running comic. How good an adaptation it is - in tone etc. I mean, not how it’s technically achieved - I can’t say, it’s not one I was previously familiar with. From what I know, the comic can vary from light-hearted flights of fancy, a bit of fun, to serious messages about the consequences of the choices we make. I’m not holding it up as any great example of high art, but comparing it to the (frankly) long ago work of one stop-motion animator, however brilliant it was (the skeletons sequence in J&tA remains one of my all time favourite film scenes) seems disingenuous.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: bakabaka on September 07, 2021, 01:12:47 PM
The comparison with Harryhausen was merely coincidence, having seen both on the same day. It just reinforced my dislike of the What If animation. Would it be fair to compare it to any of Masaaki Yuasa's work (which I've been rediscovering this month), which has so much more character and heart to it, even in a TV show like Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken?

As for not liking Marvel, that has never been the case. I used to buy What If... when it first started, and have been enjoying the bleakness that the tv version shares with the early issues[1] It's just that I've lost the love of the films that I had early on and none of the recent ones have quite hit the spot, Antman probably being the last one I enjoyed in popcorn mode. I had hoped that this series, and especially the Doctor Strange episode with its potential for spectacular visuals, would bring back that innocent joy but it appears not. I still think anodyne describes the series well and just hope that the next phase of the MCU gets fun again.
 1. I think I stopped when it became the first comic to revisit the Phoenix saga, which seemed unnecessary as the original had been quite bleak enough.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 07, 2021, 03:28:43 PM
OK. So we’re probably arguing about nothing then. If you go back through the thread, I’m sure you’d agree the animation style has come in for plenty of stick! If the animation and the plots were bobbins, I doubt we’d still be discussing it. And there’s a case to be made for expecting Marvel to be a bit more experimental and innovative in the animation stakes (rather than the fairly standard design aesthetic they’ve used here), perhaps more akin to the anime-inspired look of that upcoming Star Wars series (Legends is it?)[1]. But we’ve has a funny episode, and a bleak one, and with me at least it’s more about how they make me feel than how they look.
 1. By way of counterpoint, consider Love Death + Robots. Some really good animation, a whole range of styles - but the plots have been predominantly shit.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on September 07, 2021, 07:25:01 PM
I would never want to presume people's experience of any media but I can't help but feel the huge success of the mcu has increased expectation whilst simultaneously irking people just by dint of that success. The appetite to see something so all pervasive fail just out of principle is understandable, especially given Disney's ownership.

I think the artists and crew making this stuff deserve each thing to be judged on merit especially given the constraints of delivering spectacle, surprise, worldbuilding etc... All while staying in key. 
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: beanheadmcginty on September 09, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
I thought this week's zombie one was easily the best so far, although I watched them all in a row and was the most drunk by the time I got to it.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 09, 2021, 02:17:34 PM
Yes, a good fun episode and just the sort of mad stuff this series should be doing, I reckon. If they're not going to worry about it making much sense within the timeline of the films, then they may as well go for broke. However much the MCU may dominate Hollywood, I doubt they'd ever bother making that storyline into a film.

I could make the odd criticism: Sebastian Stan's performance was rather indifferent, again - Bucky didn't sound too cut up about Steve being cut up - while Paul Rudd was conversely rather over the top (although I suppose it's fair enough if the character was supposed to have gone mad). What is point Kurt? It took me ages to work out who he even was. Also, for a series built on references, it seems bizarre to cast Danai Gurira in a zombie story and not have her wield a katana at some point.

Those are really just nitpicks though (especially the last point). It was top stuff overall and quite impressively gory.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: beanheadmcginty on September 09, 2021, 04:45:39 PM
I genuinely forgot who Bucky was and what he looked like between every MCU film that he appeared in, to the point that when he'd show up and everyone watching was supposed to go "whoa it's Bucky" I was thinking "who the fuck's that?" so the fact that his cartoon version is just as bland and forgettable as the real life one is quite fitting really.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 09, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
Even he forgets who he is. (https://youtu.be/uXSQROFr1iM?t=96)
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: olliebean on September 09, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
It took me a while but my recollection is now 99% sure that he's the Winter Soldier. Damned if I can remember anything he did in any of the films, though.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 09, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
No awards this week, but a mention in dispatches for the actor who voiced Peter Parker so convincingly, I did actually think it was Tom Holland.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mjwilson on September 11, 2021, 09:14:28 AM
Yes, a good fun episode and just the sort of mad stuff this series should be doing, I reckon. If they're not going to worry about it making much sense within the timeline of the films, then they may as well go for broke. However much the MCU may dominate Hollywood, I doubt they'd ever bother making that storyline into a film.

I could make the odd criticism: Sebastian Stan's performance was rather indifferent, again - Bucky didn't sound too cut up about Steve being cut up - while Paul Rudd was conversely rather over the top (although I suppose it's fair enough if the character was supposed to have gone mad). What is point Kurt? It took me ages to work out who he even was.

Who was he?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 11, 2021, 11:16:37 AM
He was the Russian with the laconic one-liners. He’s one of Scott’s sidekicks in the Ant-Man films.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 11, 2021, 11:36:04 AM
Yes, that one. They clearly didn't have the actor, or his image rights though, hence the confusion. I initially thought he might be someone from the Black Widow film, which I've not seen.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 11, 2021, 12:30:21 PM
Actually it was the actor! David Dastmalchian. American, but doing a Russian accent.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 11, 2021, 01:02:32 PM
How odd. He's got quite a distinctive face, but his animated counterpart looked utterly generic.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: TwinPeaks on September 11, 2021, 01:30:34 PM
Haven't liked any of these. That last one felt like they were playing the superheroes seeing the horrifying zombified corpses of their friends for laughs, but then there's all that pathos with Spider-Man. Tone was just utterly bizarre to me
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on September 22, 2021, 10:30:03 PM
Party Thor is a real low point in the canon. Fuck that.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: C_Larence on September 23, 2021, 05:44:14 PM
Party Thor is a real low point in the canon. Fuck that.

I quite enjoyed it, a few good lines (although as usual, many that fell flat). Looks like the next episode will tie everything together.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 23, 2021, 11:57:25 PM
An impressive number of original character voice actors too. I presume the bods at the end were Kang-related, and the Watcher’s surprise at seeing them is an indication that things in the multiverse are about to go south…
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Glebe on September 24, 2021, 12:33:37 AM
Thor episode had a decent share of witty zingers and I loved all the different Marvel characters turning up at the parties around the world!
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on September 28, 2021, 03:12:12 PM
An impressive number of original character voice actors too. I presume the bods at the end were Kang-related, and the Watcher’s surprise at seeing them is an indication that things in the multiverse are about to go south…

Wasn't that Ultron/Vision?

Can't believe people liked that. Hemsworth was making me retch with cringe. I suppose they had to chuck in a lighter hearted episode.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: letsgobrian on September 29, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
This week's Ultron story was the second thoroughly visually exciting episode (after the Dr Strange one). The story is the usual nihilist slop, but the dynamic use of Kirby Krackle and similar comic book effects raised it above the duller episodes.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Bad Ambassador on September 29, 2021, 01:17:17 PM
For some reason, I forgot what this series was called and started referring to it as "What's Up..?"
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: beanheadmcginty on September 29, 2021, 06:08:50 PM
Seems a bit unlikely that Ultron was able to murder everyone in the whole universe except the two superheroes that have no superpowers.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on September 30, 2021, 07:34:15 AM
I noticed in the Hawkeye thread that opinions were mixed regarding Jeremy Renner’s acting ability. I think he’s perfectly fine. But he’s not good at VO. His readings have been flat throughout with none of the character he brought to the live action films. Just what we see of him in the Hawkeye trailer has more character than he’s displayed in this whole series - and he’s been a near-constant presence throughout this season. Lake Bell manages to sound more like the Romanoff we’re used to.

But where it really falls short is in not having James Spader as Ultron. He absolutely made that role, with a nice mix of menace and humour. Definitely the biggest casting misstep of the whole show. Unavailable? Unwilling? It’s a shame.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: letsgobrian on September 30, 2021, 09:21:39 AM
But where it really falls short is in not having James Spader as Ultron. He absolutely made that role, with a nice mix of menace and humour. Definitely the biggest casting misstep of the whole show. Unavailable? Unwilling? It’s a shame.

As it's Spader, he probably couldn't be bothered.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Lord Mandrake on October 01, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
They used Ross Marquand for Ultron/vision. He replaced Hugo Weaving as red skull in Infinity War and Endgame. I think he was going for something other than a Spader impression, maybe a mix of Spader/Bettany's voices? Didn't really work.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: wooders1978 on October 01, 2021, 11:25:24 AM
What if this wasn’t a load of stupid shit?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on October 01, 2021, 04:20:00 PM
They used Ross Marquand for Ultron/vision. He replaced Hugo Weaving as red skull in Infinity War and Endgame. I think he was going for something other than a Spader impression, maybe a mix of Spader/Bettany's voices? Didn't really work.

Yes, I wondered that too, but Vision only sounds like Jarvis because Jarvis was the basis for the Vision OS, or personality, or whatever (and it provided a nice way to expand Bettany’s part in the franchise). By that logic, UltroVision should have sounded like Spader alone.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Glebe on October 01, 2021, 08:34:36 PM
Why didn't Ultravison completely destroy Earth? Seemed like he blew up all other life-supporting planets.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on October 01, 2021, 09:58:32 PM
Because he’d already “cleansed” it (he thought) maybe? The hard way, as it were. The others, total destruction was the easy quick way once he had the stones?
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Glebe on October 01, 2021, 11:35:54 PM
Because he’d already “cleansed” it (he thought) maybe? The hard way, as it were. The others, total destruction was the easy quick way once he had the stones?

Come off it Mothy, what are you, Ultravision's PR man? This is a completely unacceptable answer!
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: mothman on October 02, 2021, 12:28:16 PM
Is not! It’s a valid hypothesis, you know? He kills off (nearly all of) humanity, is wondering what to do next, in swans Thanos who gets killed and gives him ultimate power and the awareness that other worlds are out there that a) he can now reach, and b) can obliterate easily, so off he rushes. And by the time he’s done that, maybe he was thinking he’ll go back and actually destroy Earth, but then he learns of the multiverse and off he goes again.

You telling me you’ve never rushed out to do something and left a stove on, or something?

And as an aside, the Watcher really needs to learn not to monologue behind supreme beings who’ve wiped out everyone else in their universe…
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Glebe on October 02, 2021, 06:01:55 PM
Okay fair enough. But Ultravison mate, you've left the house without plugging everything out so to speak, go back to Earth and deal with owt in the next episode!
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Dr Rock on October 02, 2021, 06:50:54 PM
He hasn't bumped into Galactus... who doesn't exist yet in in the MCU but surely will quite soon.

Great episode, great bit at the the end. Looking forward to the next episode.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: C_Larence on October 12, 2021, 12:00:44 AM
I take it nobody watched the last episode then? I did, but don’t remember anything about it already.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Mister Six on October 12, 2021, 12:41:17 AM
Which of these are worth watching? Can't be arsed with them all.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: C_Larence on October 12, 2021, 12:53:38 AM
Which of these are worth watching? Can't be arsed with them all.

The Dr Strange one had the best visuals, but you aren’t missing much by not watching.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: colacentral on October 12, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
The Dr Strange one had the best visuals, but you aren’t missing much by not watching.

Seconded. If you aren't arsed enough to watch them all, I wouldn't bother with any.
Title: Re: What If...?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on October 12, 2021, 03:29:33 PM
I liked the ending. I saw complaints about it going serialized after seemingly being a disconnected anthology thing, but I don't see the problem - it's only the last two episodes that tie everything together and, if you ignore them, the preceding episodes still work by themselves.

The big fight in the penultimate episode made Infinity War and Endgame look rather piffling in comparison.