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March 29, 2024, 02:07:44 PM

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Star Trek Picard S2

Started by Malcy, June 16, 2021, 06:50:29 PM

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Mobbd

Quote from: JamesTC on April 07, 2022, 07:35:56 PMIt is Star Trek in the same sense as the Star Trek NFTs recently released are Star Trek.

That actually hurt, yeah.

Mind you, I still maintain that the Weetabix stickers are Star Trek. Those were boss.

Mr Trumpet

Quote from: Malcy on April 07, 2022, 04:46:28 PM"The guards will be waking up soon". So she just goes straight back to the party?

She did say they'd be waking up with short term memory loss.

Overall this episode and the previous have been a bit dull, bar a few nice moments. Seems like they're struggling to figure out how to use their characters. They've already dispensed with some of them but Raffi and Seven don't really have anything to do, and Rios isn't faring much better.

Spoiler alert
Augment girl googling her dad and getting "mad scientist" as a result made me lol
[close]

Lemming

All caught up with this now, just can't believe what I'm seeing. I genuinely don't understand what they're doing or even trying to do with this programme, in either season. It feels so odd, it's just Star Trek actors plucked from retirement and placed in a TV series that feels nothing like Star Trek, playing characters who don't really resemble their original selves. This kind of thing has been happening with all kinds of popular media franchises for years now, especially in the world of videogames, and I just can't understand it. Is it just big media studios sticking old licenses on new projects to get brand recognition?

Not trying to do a performative "oh god it's so bad I can't take it" kind of thing, I just can't understand why this exists at all. It defies explanation. It's like if they decided to make a new series of Blackadder, except it was a gritty 12-part drama about a man (played by Atkinson, and named Edmund Blackadder) going through a divorce or something. Just not recognisable at all as a part of the same franchise, beyond returning actors and a few concepts lifted at random (eg Borg Queen, plus the mention of Gary fucking Seven). Did they think existing Star Trek fans would like this? Did they think it'd grab new non-fan viewers? It is a money laundering operation?

Anyway I think just about everyone would agree it doesn't work on its own merits either. The plot is simultaneously highly urgent and totally meandering, leading to episodes like this one where nothing happens for about half an hour and then robo-Picard gets run over by Brent Spiner.

elliszeroed

I agree with Lemming. And, I hate to be nasty or cynical, but I wonder if the actors who read the scripts know they're bad, care that they're terrible, or if they just see it as a job, work. Some of the pre-release interviews and the praise the actors have for the show is baffling.

On the GOT thread, there's a Youtube video of the cast talking about the final season that feels a tad relevent.

Malcy

Quote from: elliszeroed on April 09, 2022, 04:16:19 PMI agree with Lemming. And, I hate to be nasty or cynical, but I wonder if the actors who read the scripts know they're bad, care that they're terrible, or if they just see it as a job, work. Some of the pre-release interviews and the praise the actors have for the show is baffling.

On the GOT thread, there's a Youtube video of the cast talking about the final season that feels a tad relevent.

There is a lot of that in new-Trek. Gushing praise for what is very generic poor tier TV, but then I suppose they have to do that. The money must be good enough to go "fuck it, I'll do it" as Trek actors always have the conventions and cruises for a good cash injection every year.

It's a shame, there was a lot of promise but they've basically dragged 1 episode of plot over the past 4. At this stage I'm just here for the references to stuff I know. I just hope that having the original cast all together will make up for the shite in S3.

Although I'm of the view that Frakes can fuck off.

Made some comment about people who weren't enjoying DSC like "Well they are wrong and don't know what they're talking about, this is incredible TV and if they don't like it something is wrong with them" or words to that effect.

Fuck that.

Lemming

Spiner, at least, seems agonisingly aware of the shitness. Seem to recall that just before season one aired, he put out some very lukewarm remark on Twitter. He had a line in the most recent episode that went like "I have no interest in being part of... whatever this is", and his delivery sounded a little too real.

The rest of the cast are turning in strong performances IMO even if it's all for a lost cause. Doubly impressive when they're working with such crap material. Maybe they just (fairly) see it as a chance to raise their profile and show off their skills on the way to getting cast in something better. Or maybe it's hard to tell how naff and nonsensical it is while you're actually filming it and presumably having fun getting to act, and only when you watch the final product does the realisation hit. I do wonder how Jeri Ryan feels about it all especially.

Stewart is the big mystery. Before season one he was telling some bullshit story about how he thought wild dogs couldn't drag him back to Star Trek, but then suddenly Kurtzman appeared in a ray of holy light at his doorstep with the single greatest script he'd ever received, and he was so moved by the quality of the story and its deep meanings that he just had to take part. Someone, maybe RLM, suggested the whole thing was a vanity project for him and he's essentially got his head jammed fully up his arse. I remember another pre-season 1 interview where he was talking about Brexit and political division or something and enthused about how Star Trek: Picard would ultimately address all these issues in a truly brilliant way (by having AI-tentacles come out of a big portal in the sky while Bruce Maddox dies of organ failure and Seven kicks a Romulan incest ninja down a big hole).

Malcy

He replied to a tweet asking why all the Soong Family apart from Soji were male.

His reply was "Because I play them" which i liked.

Apparently he has it in his contract to no longer play Data so I highly doubt he'll appear as him in S3 but don't know if Lore or B4 fall in to that contract.

I like Rios, and if he stayed behind with the lovely and they had a spin-off of a cigar smoking starship captain coming to terms with 21st century earth I'd watch it. With different writers, and a guarantee that the last episode wouldn't end with him in Montana grey and aged and givin Picard a knowing wink just before he beams up pre-Vulcan handshake/piss up.

JamesTC

Bet he plays an aged up Lore.

Lemming

(MID SEASON 3 SNEAK PEEK)
PICARD: Mr Data... is that you?
DATA: No, Captain. I am Data (pronounced dah-ta). I was built to similar specifications to Data, both in personality and appearance, but am clearly objectively not Data. Rather, I am Data (dah-ta).

JamesTC

Proper laughed out loud when Picard got ran over by Hitler-Data man.

kalowski

Why am I still watching this. Each episode is worse than the previous one. How can they fuck up a Q storyline like this?
That fucking song!!!

Old Nehamkin

Quote from: Lemming on April 09, 2022, 05:27:34 PMStewart is the big mystery. Before season one he was telling some bullshit story about how he thought wild dogs couldn't drag him back to Star Trek, but then suddenly Kurtzman appeared in a ray of holy light at his doorstep with the single greatest script he'd ever received, and he was so moved by the quality of the story and its deep meanings that he just had to take part. Someone, maybe RLM, suggested the whole thing was a vanity project for him and he's essentially got his head jammed fully up his arse.

It's worth remembering that Stewart was enthusiastically on-board with Picard being reconfigured as a gung-ho romantic action hero in the TNG movies, and that even in the latter seasons of the show he had already been pushing the producers for Picard to have more stories along those lines - hence stuff like that episode that's effectively a Die Hard pastiche with Picard alone on the Enterprise picking off a gang of infiltrators or the two-parter where he's rather inexplicably doing a sexy deep-cover spy mission on a pirate ship. I'm not fully convinced that he really understands what made Picard a compelling character in the first place, or if he once did, it's long been overrided by a vain, boyish yearning to be a badass action star.


olliebean

Quote from: Malcy on April 09, 2022, 05:18:35 PMIt's a shame, there was a lot of promise but they've basically dragged 1 episode of plot over the past 4. At this stage I'm just here for the references to stuff I know. I just hope that having the original cast all together will make up for the shite in S3.

My worry is that they've put all their stock in getting the gang back together, and none in improving the scripts. S2 is feeling increasingly like a bunch of half-arsed fan-fic writers had a fight, and nobody won - least of all the viewers. Given the cast, I suspect that S3 will feel even more like that.

Ant Farm Keyboard

Quote from: Old Nehamkin on April 10, 2022, 08:21:39 AMIt's worth remembering that Stewart was enthusiastically on-board with Picard being reconfigured as a gung-ho romantic action hero in the TNG movies, and that even in the latter seasons of the show he had already been pushing the producers for Picard to have more stories along those lines - hence stuff like that episode that's effectively a Die Hard pastiche with Picard alone on the Enterprise picking off a gang of infiltrators or the two-parter where he's rather inexplicably doing a sexy deep-cover spy mission on a pirate ship. I'm not fully convinced that he really understands what made Picard a compelling character in the first place, or if he once did, it's long been overrided by a vain, boyish yearning to be a badass action star.


On one of the TNG Blu-ray sets, there's a roundtable discussion between several writers for the show. Ronald D. Moore describes the script he was extremely disappointed when it wasn't approved. He and Ira Steven Behr had come up with an ambitious story about Picard facing his worst fear, which was that he had a vision of the future in which he was an admiral with a desk job instead of being the captain of the Enterprise. The initial pitch goes well, but it was ultimately vetoed by Stewart himself in favour of a lighter story about Picard going in vacation, "Captain's Holiday".
The episode, the one that brought us the Risa planet and the Horga'hn statuette of fertility, is some sub-Indiana Jones stuff, and it's hard to see what could draw Stewart to it.

But, as the parties involved remember, he clearly stated what he wanted.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Captain%27s_Holiday_(episode)#Story_and_script

QuoteThe storyline that this episode ultimately went with grew out of Patrick Stewart's desire for more "sex and shooting" for Picard. Ira Steven Behr recollected, "Patrick kept saying that the trouble with the show is there's not enough f-ing and f-ing: fighting and fornicating."

The character of Vash, the fierce (and sexually liberated) woman who's Picard's love interest in the episode, was an idea by Patrick Stewart. Coincidentally, he gave the part to actress Jennifer Hetrick. Coincidentally, she was named as the "other woman" during Stewart's divorce a couple of months later.

JamesTC

I have a Horga'hn in my living room.

olliebean

Quote from: JamesTC on April 10, 2022, 05:32:29 PMI have a Horga'hn in my living room.

Do you call it Sharo'hn?

Lemming

Even in light of Stewart's desire to have Picard punch people/engage in liaisons with women half his age/ride dune buggies, it's hard to see what draws him to Star Trek: Picard, unless it's just a single-minded desire to get back on the screen under any circumstances (though I can't imagine he's short of work). He's not doing much action hero stuff in this show, mainly just slurring his way through awful lines and looking panicked. He comes across less like a tough action man and more like one of those old men you see leaving conservative clubs at 3 AM, drunk out of their minds with piss trailing down their trouser legs.

jamiefairlie

His performance is really poor isn't it? It's not just that everything else is shit.

Pranet

Ok, I'm not spewing bile through my eyeballs like the rest of you every time I watch this (I'm finding it a reasonably diverting action adventure series with Picard and Seven in it), but yeah
Spoiler alert
that song
[close]
is the single worst thing ever conceived by humanity and I had to open another browser window and look at something else until it had finished.

beanheadmcginty

It's a testament to Patrick Stewart's skills as an actor that he was able to create and embody the character of Jean-Luc Picard - literally one of the greatest TV characters of all time - and seemingly not understand anything about why he was such a great character.

evilcommiedictator

So no-one is left on the ship, so is it still in France? Is it cloaked in NY somewhere?

I know, the life of one police officer is worth the life of the Borg Queen, the only person who can get us back to our time, so I'll shoot her, and let here take control of me, so I can become the new borg queen and the villan of S3, because as we know Picard can only hire 10 actors, and they must all appear in each series

grainger

Quote from: Old Nehamkin on April 10, 2022, 08:21:39 AMIt's worth remembering that Stewart was enthusiastically on-board with Picard being reconfigured as a gung-ho romantic action hero in the TNG movies, and that even in the latter seasons of the show he had already been pushing the producers for Picard to have more stories along those lines - hence stuff like that episode that's effectively a Die Hard pastiche with Picard alone on the Enterprise picking off a gang of infiltrators or the two-parter where he's rather inexplicably doing a sexy deep-cover spy mission on a pirate ship. I'm not fully convinced that he really understands what made Picard a compelling character in the first place, or if he once did, it's long been overrided by a vain, boyish yearning to be a badass action star.


The Die Hard episode was great. As a one-off. It was when he became Action Picard in the movies, and every story had to have a "bad guy" and invevitable face-off that it was very shit.

There was a book doing the rounds that had copies of missives from Stewart to the film execs for one of the films, and he was really pushing for the film to be like this. He said something like "diplomatic Picard - the audience have seen that, and they want something different". Picard and Spiner were basically holding hte execs to ransom, saying they wanted X or they wouldn't be in the film. IIRC's Spiner's demands were less shit, but they were still shit.

grainger

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on April 10, 2022, 10:04:31 PMIt's a testament to Patrick Stewart's skills as an actor that he was able to create and embody the character of Jean-Luc Picard - literally one of the greatest TV characters of all time - and seemingly not understand anything about why he was such a great character.

Yep, that's what it feels like now. But Stewart has also played substantial stage roles to great acclaim, so I'm not sure "he was shallow all along" really explains it.

Malcy

One for our American readers to try and not too sure of the validity but here's the audio if not.

323 - 634 - 5567

Call that number from Q's card and get this maybe?

https://sndup.net/wgdw/

I think it could be an impersonator.

Malcy

You can be a diplomat all you want but surely the job of a Captain would lead to dealing with situations like 'Starship Mine'? Could you be a captain without having a bit of cop on to deal with shit like that?

Agree that he very much seems like a doddery old man ala ' All Good Things@ where they all humoured him. Its believable to a point but only in the hands of good writers. I'm depressed enough without Trek being a disappointment.

I watched one of my favourite DS9 episodes 'The Ascent' a few nights ago. Zero Sci-Fi plot, just good plots, great actors and in 5  mins it was still better than anything Kurtzman Trek has offered up.

Deanjam

Quote from: Malcy on April 11, 2022, 08:45:54 PMOne for our American readers to try and not too sure of the validity but here's the audio if not.

323 - 634 - 5567

Call that number from Q's card and get this maybe?

https://sndup.net/wgdw/

I think it could be an impersonator.


The Red Letter Media lads rang that on their most recent video review of Picard and got the message. Pretty sure it's the real De Lancie.


Wonderful Butternut

Was expecting ep. 6 to be a lot worse and far cringier based on the comments than it ended up being. It was meh. Actually a lot of this season is falling into "meh" category for me. 5/10 effort overall so far. Is funny that notData's daughter, notSoji, hadn't Googled her famous scientist Dad before now though.

Do wonder are they lining up to do something really stupid like having everyone except Picard and Jurati stranded in the 21st century so there's room for the TNG reunion in season 3. Just getting a wee vibe with Rios falling for the doctor and Seven enjoying not having Borg bits on her face.

I'm sure they won't, especially with a fan favourite legacy character like Seven. But at the same time, I wouldn't completely put it past them.

JamesTC

Nothing is left of what made Seven the character fans loved anyway aside from Jeri Ryan herself.