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March 28, 2024, 04:17:57 PM

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Starmer VIII: Labour will set you free

Started by pancreas, March 16, 2022, 08:54:56 AM

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lipsink

Not a Centrist but pensioner-assaulter Iain Dale appeared on Owen Jones' podcast and did the exact same thing when Jones talked about Starmer breaking all of his pledges. It's "just politics" and "all politicians lie". The cheeky bastard even said Jones was "clutching his pearls" by bringing it up.
Imagine getting into journalism and broadcasting and not having any interest in politicians lying.

Ferris

I believe it is Right and Good when politicians lie.

jobotic

It's okay when we do it but you're very bad when we pretend that you do it.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: jobotic on April 29, 2022, 03:01:28 PMIt's okay when we do it but you're very bad when we pretend that you do it.
Someone in Scotland tried to corner me with that. "How do you feel about Sturgeon not making the promised national energy company then? You still vote SNP don't you?".

I pointed out I thought all promise-breaking is shitty and disappointing. I also pointed out it wasn't a very good pledge to begin with if the national energy company was still subject to the British wholesale prices and third party transport, as it would only really be skipping over the shareholders we find in current private billing companies which is not enough and not what people mean when they say they want utilities nationalised. Apparently that was missing the point though.

Paul Calf

Yeah, overlooking missed pledges is a lot easier to do when you know that those pledges were made in good faith. The problem with Starmer isn't that he broke all the pledges: it's that he never had any intention of honouring them at any time.

Kankurette

Quote from: Bernice on April 28, 2022, 11:28:48 AMOh Jurgen Klopp you are very nice
So good at football you've won at least twice
I wish you would manage our country instead
You'd respect the law and our brave war dead
When Brexit happened for months we did weep
But Jurgen the German our hearts still does keep
With Boris a liar and wokeys so smelly
Why did I bother to kill David Kelly?
So jurgen please come and now save us all
Do to our politics what you've done for football
Save us from populism and scandal fatigue
And take lovely Britain into the Champions League!

- A. Campbell, 64 years old.

He's as cuddly as a kitten licking cream.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: lipsink on April 29, 2022, 02:33:46 PMNot a Centrist but pensioner-assaulter Iain Dale appeared on Owen Jones' podcast and did the exact same thing when Jones talked about Starmer breaking all of his pledges. It's "just politics" and "all politicians lie". The cheeky bastard even said Jones was "clutching his pearls" by bringing it up.
Imagine getting into journalism and broadcasting and not having any interest in politicians lying.

I see he didn't bother correcting Mad Nad during his interview with her where she suggested Channel 5 was a great example of privatisation. Useless cunt.

Fambo Number Mive

Was it Dale or Jones the interview with Dorres was with?

Blinder Data

Quote from: Paul Calf on April 29, 2022, 03:39:58 PMYeah, overlooking missed pledges is a lot easier to do when you know that those pledges were made in good faith. The problem with Starmer isn't that he broke all the pledges: it's that he never had any intention of honouring them at any time.

the SNP's national energy company was not pledged in good faith though. it was an ill thought out last minute rabbit out of the hat trick to please conference delegates (similar to the Ferguson's ferry carry on).

pcsjwgm

Haven't read the rest of the article but I see that it was written by Richard Seymour, who is definitely not a centrist. I suppose his point isn't "politicians need to lie, that's just politics" but more "what the hell else would the left expect from this Trilateral Commission prick?"

Zetetic

He's back.

Taking it on its own terms, the message is ... good? But surely it's a terrible choice to have Tony deliver it?

Zetetic

I know that I'm in a bubble, and that might massively distort my perception of the public's attitudes towards Blair - but there's also a lot of polling evidence for the last decade that diverse and (to me still, surprisingly) large part of the population think he's an untrustworthy git.

olliebean

Quote from: Zetetic on May 01, 2022, 10:02:20 AMHe's back.

Taking it on its own terms, the message is ... good? But surely it's a terrible choice to have Tony deliver it?

Wasn't Tony going to set up his own party just a month or two ago? Was this recorded a couple of years back? The wording, "Today we have a new leader" seems a bit odd, 2 years into Starmer's leadership.

shoulders

Quote from: Zetetic on May 01, 2022, 10:02:20 AMHe's back.

Taking it on its own terms, the message is ... good? But surely it's a terrible choice to have Tony deliver it?

Depends whose votes they want. Seems to me they're explicitly going after swing voters in more Southern marginals.

Nice though the nostalgia trip was, it felt like it evaporated on contact with all the other negative memories.

pigamus

It's surprising you don't see him defending his own domestic record more often. I think the thing about both him and Gordon Brown is they were always much more interested in international politics than the domestic stuff.

greencalx

Unfortunately a lot of the much-needed investment was raised through accounting tricks like PFI, which makes as much sense economically as buying a house on a credit card. I am glad these investments were made, but I do wish they were made in a more sustainable way.

When you look deeper into the domestic policy, the sheen comes off pretty quickly, alas.

pigamus

Absolutely. But a lot of people have never even heard of PFI, they just know they were doing better in the nineties...

greencalx

I think people are peripherally aware that it is possible to magic up some cash without raising taxes. They probably don't realise that the APR is crippling.

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: greencalx on May 01, 2022, 05:33:08 PMI think people are peripherally aware that it is possible to magic up some cash without raising taxes. They probably don't realise that the APR is crippling.

What from the magic money tree?!

lipsink

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on April 30, 2022, 12:58:04 PMWas it Dale or Jones the interview with Dorres was with?

Dorres was interviewed by Dale on LBC. Jones had Dale on his YouTube show last Sunday.

Sebastian Cobb



https://shop.labour.org.uk/category/1997

Feels like someone needs to flog the NME front cover and Tory devil eyes fridge magnets just to restore the balance in the universe.

Martin Van Buren Stan

All that merch is so grim. How much do they make from it? Even if it's a million per year it's still not worth it


greencalx

They're really trying to push the spirit of '97. Just saw a Brown speech on my timeline...

Main differences: (i) there was a GE in '97; (ii) Labour were offering something new.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: greencalx on May 02, 2022, 11:01:52 AMThey're really trying to push the spirit of '97. Just saw a Brown speech on my timeline...

Main differences: (i) there was a GE in '97; (ii) Labour were offering something new.

They got boyed off by Tony saying he's toying with backing another party because Starmer is shit and now they're trying to win him back by kissing his ring.

Quote

I think they genuinely believe 1997 was some kind of high water mark for civilisation, rather than how everyone else sees it, as momentary elation quickly replaced by disappointment and cynicism.

pigamus

I remember the high watermark of the nineties being the glorious summer of Euro 96, but then John Major was still in power so it doesn't fit the narrative does it

Quote

He was kind of a dead duck by that stage, it seemed inevitable Labour would win the next election whenever it was called. And of course Labour hadn't actually seized power by that stage so people could still believe change was coming, rather than when Labour actually gained power and showed that change was impossible, and even it were possible they would be far too trustworthy & sensible to ever pursue it.

Paul Calf

Yeah. A photo pf a chimp would have beaten Major in 1997. Blair squandered an unimaginable amount of political capital and goodwill on a tent in Southeast London and some ruinously expensive private loans to build hospitals to replace ones that could have been more cheaply renovated.

Now the corrosive old shitbag thinks he has something to say to the generation ravaged by the neoliberal bullshit he chose to inflict on them. I wish he'd start his own party. That'd really bring home to him what a toxic waste of carbon he is.

Sebastian Cobb

It's pretty telling how much of a rift there is in appraisals of Blair between gen-x an millenials born about 10 years apart. I can only assume it's the difference of being 20ish and having either a view of hope/doors opening and then being there watching them shut in front of you.

For all the smug lectures from the gen-x camp about how revolutionary it was after a decade-plus of the tories, I can't say I've ever seen them try and see it from the other point of view, or acknowledge there might be an opposing vantage point, no people have simply got it wrong and they don't understand.