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March 28, 2024, 02:55:14 PM

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Star Trek Picard S2

Started by Malcy, June 16, 2021, 06:50:29 PM

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Spoon of Ploff

Spoiler alert
wil wheaton??
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dear god no

elliszeroed

Spoiler alert
I don't dislike Wheaton, or Wesley. But not only was that a out  of nowhere cameo, but really badly acted/ presented. All smiles and joy, more "You've won the lottery" than "you've been chosen... for some reason... to be a secret agent of destiny." Could have been more solemn?
[close]

Apologies for more spoiler tags. No idea what the unofficial rules are for them; better safe than sorry.

Alberon

Better to have too many than too few.

I'm not going to watch the last episode (I'd have to watch eight to catch up), but what does happen in the finale?

JamesTC

I hope Picard finally achieves his dream of becoming human.

elliszeroed

Quote from: Alberon on May 05, 2022, 11:28:22 AMBetter to have too many than too few.

I'm not going to watch the last episode (I'd have to watch eight to catch up), but what does happen in the finale?

Spoiler alert
  • Picards ancestor goes into space
  • Jurati becomes a nice Borg Queen
  • Rios stays behind to be with doctor woman
  • Picard has option to alter his future by taking a key away, the key being where it was having led to his mommas suicide, he declines the option
  • Vulcan woman dies, as she is a watcher
  • Wil Wheaton takes Sochi to make her a watcher
  • Q tells Picard he is sad he is dying, tells Picard that he matters, and love is important, as is the fact that Picard chose to be himself, rather than replace the key. Basically Tapestry II.
  • The Borg in the present is revealed to be Jurati, and she needs the help of Picard and the entire federation to stop a blackhole thing from destroying the galaxy
  • They stop it, open a transwarp conduit...
  • And the Romulan ninja is restored to life
  • And the Borg asks for temporary Federation membership
[close]

Alberon

Thanks!

Sounds like
Spoiler alert
utter utter dogshit.
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Spoon of Ploff

Quote from: Alberon on May 05, 2022, 12:03:15 PMThanks!

Sounds like
Spoiler alert
utter utter dogshit.
[close]

Spoiler alert
yes. yes it was
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grainger

Quote from: elliszeroed on May 05, 2022, 11:47:13 AM
Spoiler alert
  • [...] The Borg [need] the help of Picard and the entire federation to stop a blackhole thing from destroying the galaxy
  • They stop it
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Oh my goodness...  genuine laugh out loud.

Deanjam

Spoiler alert
So the borg are nice now? How do they explain that they're made up of people abducted and mutilated against their will?

Who am I kidding. They don't bother, do they? Jurati-queen looks like a sad puppy and sad music plays. The end.
[close]

Mobbd

Quote from: elliszeroed on May 05, 2022, 11:47:13 AM
Spoiler alert
  • Picards ancestor goes into space
  • Jurati becomes a nice Borg Queen
  • Rios stays behind to be with doctor woman
  • Picard has option to alter his future by taking a key away, the key being where it was having led to his mommas suicide, he declines the option
  • Vulcan woman dies, as she is a watcher
  • Wil Wheaton takes Sochi to make her a watcher
  • Q tells Picard he is sad he is dying, tells Picard that he matters, and love is important, as is the fact that Picard chose to be himself, rather than replace the key. Basically Tapestry II.
  • The Borg in the present is revealed to be Jurati, and she needs the help of Picard and the entire federation to stop a blackhole thing from destroying the galaxy
  • They stop it, open a transwarp conduit...
  • And the Romulan ninja is restored to life
  • And the Borg asks for temporary Federation membership
[close]

Sweet Jesus.

Spoiler alert
Do they make it clear that Wesley is "travelling"?
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and

Spoiler alert
Is there any hint that, going forward, Wesley is "the new Q"?
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Mobbd

Quote from: Deanjam on May 05, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Spoiler alert
So the borg are nice now? How do they explain that they're made up of people abducted and mutilated against their will?

Who am I kidding. They don't bother, do they? Jurati-queen looks like a sad puppy and sad music plays. The end.
[close]

Hang on a minute...

Spoiler alert
Were the Borg in the present always Jurati? Or have they changed the timeline? Did Wolf 359 and most of VOY happen? Have they just ret-conned all of Star Trek post-"Q Who"?

Or is this all safely in an alternate timeline, Kelvin-style, like I first understood to be the case but was disabused of here in the forum? And if these changes were made to an alternate timeline, why should we (or Q) give a shit one way or another whether Picard took the key to change/not change his mother's destiny?
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Mr Trumpet

Quote from: Deanjam on May 05, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Spoiler alert
So the borg are nice now? How do they explain that they're made up of people abducted and mutilated against their will?

Who am I kidding. They don't bother, do they? Jurati-queen looks like a sad puppy and sad music plays. The end.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Different gang of Borg innit. These guys have just been lurking around, taking in volunteers over 400 years while their more belligerent cousins keep doing their thing and being outsmarted by Janeway.
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olliebean

Oh, is this the season finale? Frankly I was going to give up after last week, might give it a watch if it's the finale, though. Just out of morbid curiosity.

Malcy

Still a mess but enjoyed the Q & Picard scenes.

Spoiler alert
Wesley auditioning for Doctor Who was just odd. Soong's Project Khan only put there as a lead onto the Soong ENT ep's. They just added the Guardians to the Travellers.
[close]

grainger

Quote from: Mobbd on May 05, 2022, 02:43:10 PMHang on a minute...

Spoiler alert
Did [...] most of VOY happen?
[close]

Stop it, you're starting to make me like Picard.

Zero Gravitas

Okay.

Okay.

Spoiler alert
Okay. That final Guinan scene has me switched back around, current Guinan has memories of her interaction with Picard in the 21st century which seem fully integrated with her memories presumably of meeting Mark Twain yet they weren't then? And she has always had a sneaky photo of and deep knowledge of Rios' time travelling life and implies he'd missed it previously so the events of their interference had always happened.

And Picard has been told since childhood of '...the family line. The Picards that fought at Trafalgar, the Picards that settled the first Martian colony...' but no one mentioned the Picard that visited Europa and indirectly lead to earth biosphere recovery?

I think I'm enjoying it perversely now, at least we got this:



Q the liar! Q the misanthrope! Redeemed at last.

[close]


timebug

I'll stick my head up over the parapet and say; I enjoyed it....for what it was!
Aside from the virtually pointless Wil Wheaton scene,as a long time fan of most of the franchise, I just took it as a nice sci-fi romp. Okay, the real fans who remember every detail of previous 'Trek's will find fault. But I don't have that sort of eidetic memory, so I just sat back and enjoyed it.

Mobbd

Quote from: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AMOkay, the real fans who remember every detail of previous 'Trek's will find fault. But I don't have that sort of eidetic memory, so I just sat back and enjoyed it.

I know supernerds like to nitpick (all part of the fun of watching Star Trek in my opinion but I can see why it annoys a lot of people) but DIS and PIC are so disrespectful to canon that it's a real struggle to see them as compatible at all. No need for an eidetic memory to feel that way imho.

And the main problem is more that practically every episode is a grimdark soup of violence and meaningless breathless dialogue and shouting and shrapnel.

SNW suggests (maybe) that the message has got though now. We'll see. Hopefully this shit can be put to bed.

Glad you enjoyed it though! Enjoy it if you can.

Zero Gravitas

Quote from: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AMAside from the virtually pointless Wil Wheaton scene.

I actually thought his lines were pretty funny:

QuoteSo the universe is essentially a grand tapestry.
It is flawless.
It is fragile.
It is exquisite.
Yet it is somehow always a thread's pull away from total annihilation.


Mr Trumpet

Quote from: timebug on May 06, 2022, 09:34:44 AMI'll stick my head up over the parapet and say; I enjoyed it....for what it was!
Aside from the virtually pointless Wil Wheaton scene,as a long time fan of most of the franchise, I just took it as a nice sci-fi romp. Okay, the real fans who remember every detail of previous 'Trek's will find fault. But I don't have that sort of eidetic memory, so I just sat back and enjoyed it.

I thought the last episode rescued things a bit, as the previous couple of instalments were very shaky indeed. John de Lancie's best performance, hands down. And I liked the other cameo appearance because he seems like a good guy and I can imagine how much it means for him to be involved.

I'm one of those eidetic memory types (only for dweeby shit like this, not for anything actually important or useful) and I say canon is for theologians. Or we'd be forever moaning about James R Kirk, Klingons in the Federation, and the legality of Romulan Ale.

Mobbd

Quote from: Mr Trumpet on May 06, 2022, 10:44:17 AMhe seems like a good guy and I can imagine how much it means for him to be involved.

Yeah, agreed. There was a clip on that last RLM video of him hinting to camera that he'd love to be on Lower Decks. I thought, jeez, haven't they given him that obvious gig yet? First he misses out on all that TNG money, then he's cut out of Nemesis, then they make him do their shilling, and they won't even give the poor lad a voice over gig? I was glad he got something.

Alberon

Didn't he end up voicing all the Romulans except for the main bad guy on the first Kelvin film?

Mobbd

Quote from: Alberon on May 06, 2022, 01:33:20 PMDidn't he end up voicing all the Romulans except for the main bad guy on the first Kelvin film?

I didn't know that! Cool. If a bit menial. I want more than an easter egg for him.

Alberon

Quick google found this.

QuoteIn his own words: "JJ Abrams called me. It was an entertaining conversation; I couldn't believe he wanted me to do work on his film, and he couldn't believe that I wanted to do it. He asked me if I'd be interested in playing some Romulans, and I think I held my hand over the phone so he couldn't hear me squeal in delight before I calmly told him that, yes, I thought I could do that. I don't recall precisely why, but we agreed that it would be extra cool to keep it a secret until the heat death of the universe, an uncredited bit of awesome that only a handful of people in the world would know about ... unless we told them. (In fact, as far as I know, only a dozen people in the world knew about this until some meddling kids and their dog at Viacom found out about it this summer, and said we had to give me credit and stuff.)"

If they want a new Trek series to replace Picard when that finishes next season they could do Star Trek: Traveller starring Will Wheaton. Though that would probably end up a total Doctor Who ripoff.

Wonderful Butternut

Picard hugged Q. 10/10

Spoiler alert
Going to depart from the general view and say the last episode wasn't bad by itself, the problem is I feel they wasted more interesting concepts during the series as a whole with fuckways pacing. They dragged 5 episodes worth of material at most into 9 episodes and then wrapped everything up at the end in what felt like a rushed manner.

Stuff like notSoji joining the Travellers/Watchers, Wesley being involved with them, Jurati persuading the Borg Queen to do a 180 on her outlook in the previous episode, the singularity etc. are all potentially more interesting things they could've spent time on than, for example, the entirety of episode 8.

I assume the singularity is going to be pivotal in season 3 and the reason why Picard re-assembles the TNG crew, cos if not, it feels like they're taking the piss out of Discovery's annual galactic cataclysm by introducing and solving the singularity in about 10 minutes.
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Pranet

Spoiler alert
Hello, I am Wil Wheaton. 30 years ago I was written out of the popular tv series Star Trek The Next Generation. I am here to write you out of the less popular streaming series Star Trek Picard.
[close]

I'm a Picard apologist but I can't claim it is great. Annoyed they
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wrote out Rios as he was one of best ones.
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Oh well it had some nice bits. I will be back next time to
Spoiler alert
see all my old favourites from TNG
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if I still do it without paying anyone to do so.

Can't wait to be disappointed by Strange New Worlds.

Ant Farm Keyboard

#446
You've all failed to mention what was easily the most ridiculous thing in the entire episode. It actually made me groan.

Spoiler alert
[close]

I disagree about Brent Spiner. He seemed happy playing without all the Data makeup, except that he gave a terribly hammy performance, which was fit for a mustache-twirling villain. He was the same in Outcast, but slightly more subtle.

Spoiler alert
The whole character, related to the other Soongs or not, never made any sense.
- He's a disgrace in the scientific community, banned from every major project, yet he's suddenly acclaimed after he buys his way into the Europa project... which is about to be launched (so must be already fully financed). By the way, how come they had this extensive system for ID at the gala, while the security is lax at every step of the actual mission?
- He's doing everything to save his daughter whom he loves... until he's all about being validated and celebrated as a savior by humanity, even if it means collaborating with an alien enemy, murdering a ton of people, changing the future, etc. Sure, it could have been triggered by her rejection but they don't elaborate on that, while they had time for an entire episode about an interrogation by a bargain bin Fox Mulder that has otherwise no effect on the rest of the plot.
- And it turns out that he had dozens of supervillain tricks up his sleeves (the drones, the aforementioned file, etc.). For someone who's just been unexpectedly offered some opportunity by Q and the Borg queen, he definitely had a ton of resources and evil plans ready.
- The genius scientist gets so poor security in his information system (and no backups) that it gets hacked by Kore, who hadn't even used Google until two days before, from a public library.
- Finally, as Soong has no child, besides Kore (does she even carry his DNA?), and Kore join the Travellers Club (and gets paid through traveller's cheques), how come there's an actual Soong lineage where every male heir looks like Brent Spiner and every woman is played by Orla Brady?
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I agree that everything after the name of the file is revealed is an improvement on this part.

Spoiler alert
Even if the story made little sense on the whole, Q bowing out was emotionally satisfying, especially due to DeLancie's restrained performance, with a few glimpses of his usual braggadocio.

I can live with Wesley Crusher being involved, because Will Wheaton seems a genuine good guy, who doesn't deserve, as a person, the bashing he got from Rick Berman or from the fans.
But the scene still puts on display one of the most irritating aspects of these new shows (but less than "PROJECT KHAN"). Instead of writing a show true to the spirit of Star Trek, they instead address obscure loose ends, as if it were a gift to the fans. These loose ends were loose ends for good reasons. They were failed experiments that nobody wanted to continue. That was the case with Conspiracy, in TNG, where some giant bugs had taken control of admirals (remember, it's the one with the effects in stop-motion). They were supposed to be parts of a plan by some major opponent that would have returned in later seasons, but the production decided that it was cheaper and more practical to design the Borg instead.

The only thing surprising with Rios staying in the 21st century was the characters acting surprised that he would make that choice, given that it was the most widely predicted element of the ending. The Voyage Home had Kirk's love interest joining the crew to the 23rd century, so they couldn't repeat that, especially with the kid.
And, of course, they had to make Teresa, Rios and Ricardo extremely important characters, who ended up saving Earth. They couldn't just be good people who did things for their community, they needed to be in history books (also, how come nobody knew how important Ricardo was?)
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Wonderful Butternut

On the subject of Ricardo:

Spoiler alert
I "love" that humanity fixed pollution and Global Warming in the 21st century with magic alien spores, instead of, oh I dunno, learning to take better care of the environment after First Contact. Which is what I always assumed had happened and is more in keeping with how wonderful future humanity is portrayed in classic Star Trek.
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Ant Farm Keyboard

Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on May 07, 2022, 01:39:51 PMOn the subject of Ricardo:

Spoiler alert
I "love" that humanity fixed pollution and Global Warming in the 21st century with magic alien spores, instead of, oh I dunno, learning to take better care of the environment after First Contact. Which is what I always assumed had happened and is more in keeping with how wonderful future humanity is portrayed in classic Star Trek.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Maybe they found the protomolecule much in advance.
[close]

Mr Trumpet

Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on May 07, 2022, 01:39:51 PMOn the subject of Ricardo:

Spoiler alert
I "love" that humanity fixed pollution and Global Warming in the 21st century with magic alien spores, instead of, oh I dunno, learning to take better care of the environment after First Contact. Which is what I always assumed had happened and is more in keeping with how wonderful future humanity is portrayed in classic Star Trek.
[close]

There's reforming how people do things (good), then there's fixing what damage has already been done (necessary). And Trek's future has always been a techno-utopia.