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March 28, 2024, 03:29:18 PM

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Starmer VIII: Labour will set you free

Started by pancreas, March 16, 2022, 08:54:56 AM

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pigamus


Mr_Rich

Quote from: jobotic on May 10, 2022, 03:44:33 PMHe's right fucked it ain't he?


Johnson back on top. A Queen's speech dedicated to nothing but the further creation of a far right dictatorship and he's got nothing to say.

Still, he'll be rewarded in time.

He's just terrible, plain and simple. I know it's YouGov but the movement here on their latest poll says it all:

LAB: 36% (-3)
CON: 35% (+2)
LDEM: 10% (-1)
GRN: 8% (+2)
REF: 4% (+1)

Against a backdrop of the prime minister breaking a law that he created himself this is beyond poor.

lipsink

Interesting Novara Media interview with the writer of a book about Starmer. Lots of stuff about basically what an awful man he's always been:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7gqvdJSOBw

JOB has been wanking himself silly recently about how Starmer pledging to stand down if he's fined shows what integrity he has. JOB now suddenly cares about Tory media bias against a Labour leader too.

shoulders

Quote from: Mr_Rich on May 10, 2022, 06:01:31 PMHe's just terrible, plain and simple. I know it's YouGov but the movement here on their latest poll says it all:

LAB: 36% (-3)
CON: 35% (+2)
LDEM: 10% (-1)
GRN: 8% (+2)
REF: 4% (+1)

Against a backdrop of the prime minister breaking a law that he created himself this is beyond poor.


Keeping in mind Starmer isn't trying to win, these are the beige irrelevant results he's been hoping for.

No doubt we'll soon hear how it's all Green voters fault.

king_tubby

It's my fault? Get in! In your face, so-called Starmer!

king_tubby


jamiefairlie

Quote from: shoulders on May 10, 2022, 07:08:25 PMKeeping in mind Starmer isn't trying to win, these are the beige irrelevant results he's been hoping for.

No doubt we'll soon hear how it's all Green voters fault.

Correct, the goal is to keep it neck and neck and don't rock the boat.

It's all the Greens fault though, whatever it is.

Mr_Rich

Quote from: jamiefairlie on May 11, 2022, 04:41:00 AMCorrect, the goal is to keep it neck and neck and don't rock the boat.

It's all the Greens fault though, whatever it is.

Keeping neck and neck would I indicate he had to occasionally do something positive. His only real winning tactic is when he does and says nothing. Reminding people he exists is a vote loser.

shoulders

Council results and polling indicate the Tories have lost support but that Labour aren't receiving much of it at all, in fact they're slightly losing support to Greens, and picking up a tiny fraction of Tory voters versus the Lib Dems.

Good thinking to tack to the right!

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: king_tubby on May 10, 2022, 10:07:43 PMhttps://twitter.com/PhilipProudfoot/status/1524132334181797888

Keith done hard Brexit.

Definitely worth watching the full interview.

What Does Keir Starmer ACTUALLY Believe? | Aaron Bastani meets Oliver Eagleton | Downstream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7gqvdJSOBw

holyzombiejesus

Why are people on the left giggling about that Gove interview? I want to puch the cunt in the mouth (sorry Neil). I went to see a new family at work last week and the mum broke down stating she doesn't know how she'll cope and can only go food shopping when they put the yellow stickered stuff out. Her daughter's suicidal, there are no decent mental health services available, mum's suffering from anxiety and depression and she'd have put TV on this morning to see this gurning cretin treating everything like it's a joke. Bet it'll be on HIGNFY and the audience will piss themselves at a government minister going for lols while people starve.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on May 11, 2022, 08:45:44 AMDefinitely worth watching the full interview.

What Does Keir Starmer ACTUALLY Believe? | Aaron Bastani meets Oliver Eagleton | Downstream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7gqvdJSOBw

I found that quite interesting, especially how quickly he irreversibly became an establishment man when getting near NI. And you can draw a straight-line through that to his top-down, national-interest-on-an-international-scale management of the DPP.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on May 11, 2022, 08:20:52 PMWhy are people on the left giggling about that Gove interview? I want to puch the cunt in the mouth (sorry Neil). I went to see a new family at work last week and the mum broke down stating she doesn't know how she'll cope and can only go food shopping when they put the yellow stickered stuff out. Her daughter's suicidal, there are no decent mental health services available, mum's suffering from anxiety and depression and she'd have put TV on this morning to see this gurning cretin treating everything like it's a joke. Bet it'll be on HIGNFY and the audience will piss themselves at a government minister going for lols while people starve.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61405638

The word 'Surkovian' comes to mind.

Johnny Yesno

Also, if it's any consolation, hzj, genuine left wing commentators weren't laughing:

https://youtu.be/ht3-CDLONzs?t=1723

monkfromhavana

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on May 11, 2022, 08:23:44 PMI found that quite interesting, especially how quickly he irreversibly became an establishment man when getting near NI. And you can draw a straight-line through that to his top-down, national-interest-on-an-international-scale management of the DPP.

Fucking hell, that bit where Gavin Barwell puts forward Starmer's own Brexit proposal (that he pitched to them a couple of days before) to him and Starmer is totally dismissive of it, saying "There is no way we would accept this ridiculous proposal".

Johnny Yesno


Psybro

Have they just taken Barwell's word for it though?  Because that cunt is Major General Hindsight if ever there was one (everyone involved in May's disastrous premiership has grabbed the opportunity Johnson has given them to launder their reputation with both hands and their close relative's hands if also available).

Johnny Yesno

I guess Kieth will be suing Barwell for libel, then.

Blinder Data

Quote from: Psybro on May 12, 2022, 12:11:29 PMHave they just taken Barwell's word for it though?  Because that cunt is Major General Hindsight if ever there was one (everyone involved in May's disastrous premiership has grabbed the opportunity Johnson has given them to launder their reputation with both hands and their close relative's hands if also available).

It does ring true though - Starmer and the Labour frontbench were guilty of parliamentary tricks and acting as if the chaos was all just an opportunity to collapse the government and somehow take over. In hindsight, incredibly short-sighted and foolish.

----
 
Pretty galling that even the New Statesman thinks Starmer isn't offering enough: https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/05/leader-keir-starmer-is-under-pressure

But this article reflects my current predictions (current politics has an echo of the 1970s). If things stay more or less the same, Starmer "wins" the next election in extremely uninspiring circumstances:

Quote from: https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/05/why-keir-starmer-is-still-on-course-to-become-prime-ministerA more confident opposition, one that was on course to storm the election, would be forthcoming on these questions. Labour needs to go further, faster. Its senior personnel need to repeat what they have done and why, over and over, even if they feel they are beating their own party up. They will face the Lansley problem if they don't. But if they don't — and plenty of the shadow cabinet don't really want to — it might not matter as much as all that. Durham Constabulary might yet make a mockery of this prediction but, barring disaster, Keir Starmer is on course to be Labour's first prime minister in a decade and a half.

Psybro

I think Barwell's meetings were after the (shudder) indicative votes where Labour (Starmer included) did vote for Clarke's customs union motion, but were scuppered by a few Labour MPs including Owen Smith, the Lib Dems and TIG.  So I don't think we can attribute blame for hard Brexit solely on those meetings, as whatever came out of them was always going to struggle to pass regardless.

But what the story tells us about Starmer still seems true enough.

Psybro

Quote from: Blinder Data on May 12, 2022, 12:44:24 PMIt does ring true though - Starmer and the Labour frontbench were guilty of parliamentary tricks and acting as if the chaos was all just an opportunity to collapse the government and somehow take over. In hindsight, incredibly short-sighted and foolish.

That apparent attempt to nickel-and-dime their way to power (implicitly needing Corbyn to give up and go away as the anti-Corbyn majority was bigger than the anti-Government one) is symptomatic of the incrementalist way the continuity Miliband people running the party think.

They're not motivated by any great desire to sweep the Tories out of power with a reforming agenda, they want to rearrange the furniture whilst nobody's looking so we wake up and they're in charge one day.  That's why they're so obsessed with derivative stylistic ways of looking/speaking - politics as the Pepsi Challenge.

What they actually do when they're in charge will simply be informed by events at the time - they're the proverbial dog chasing a car.

shoulders


pigamus

Quote from: Blinder Data on May 12, 2022, 12:44:24 PMBut this article reflects my current predictions (current politics has an echo of the 1970s). If things stay more or less the same, Starmer "wins" the next election in extremely uninspiring circumstances:

No chance. The Tories being the largest party is the absolute best you can hope for.

shoulders

Agreed. Partial collapse in support for the Tories has not resulted in that crossing over to Labour.  Thanks to Starmer making Labour unpalatable for pretty much every floating contingency.

Blinder Data

Quote from: pigamus on May 12, 2022, 01:39:58 PMNo chance. The Tories being the largest party is the absolute best you can hope for.

If the Tories lose their majority at the next GE, even if they're still largest party, there's no guarantee they'd form the next government. Not even the DUP would support them now and an anti-Tory majority with Labour at the top could be on the cards. It would be messy but based on current trends it's a possibility.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Blinder Data on May 12, 2022, 03:36:43 PMNot even the DUP would support them now

lol. Even the Lib Dems would fold to hear the sound of a limousine door click.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on May 12, 2022, 03:39:13 PMlol. Even the Lib Dems would fold to hear the sound of a limousine door click.

Yeah, when it counts they'll all rally round the fleg.

king_tubby

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on May 12, 2022, 03:39:13 PMlol. Even the Lib Dems would fold to hear the sound of a limousine door click.

He ain't wrong. I think if Moran had got the leadership it'd be less likely but Davey fucking loved austerity and selling the Post Office for buttons.

suelgi

Starmer was definitely a wrecker during the talks but I'd take the Barwell stuff with a pinch of salt. Political books are full of stuff like that, like the bits in "Left Out" where they twist things to make Corbyn look thick.

The Barwell was actually referenced in the house in 2019. Funny to see Corbyn telling him to get up & defend himself. Starmer looks fucking pissed, the head on him at the end!

monkfromhavana

I'm sure that there were other people in the room who could corroborate it, I doubt Eagleton would have attributed it to him if this wasn't the case.