Starmer VIII: Labour will set you free

[Blinder Data]

lol. Even the Lib Dems would fold to hear the sound of a limousine door click.

In that case it would be limousine cars of a Labour-led government, that's my point. They've learnt their lesson from their near-death experience thanks to the coalition years. They are attracting loads of Toryish voters who hate Johnson and Starmer doesn't scare them like Corbyn did.

Lib Dems would not support Johnson in a minority government - another leader, well, it's possible but I doubt it.

[Sebastian Cobb]

lol. Even the Lib Dems would fold to hear the sound of a limousine door click.

I think the funniest outcome would be if Starmer Frank-Spencered his way out of forming a coalition with the SNP by trying to look hard in England only to get pummelled in round 2.

Long term it would be less funny. But on the day I'd laugh my brambles off.

[pigamus]

Ignore.

[holyzombiejesus]

It's probably stupid of me but I'm put off electoral reform by all the fbpe types clamouring for it. Wouldn't it be the best way for the left to get representation in government though? That's why I'm thinking that suffering a short term lib dem /labour coalition may be a best option as the former would surely insist on pr or whatever if they were to support Starmer.

[shoulders]

It's probably stupid of me but I'm put off electoral reform by all the fbpe types clamouring for it. Wouldn't it be the best way for the left to get representation in government though? That's why I'm thinking that suffering a short term lib dem /labour coalition may be a best option as the former would surely insist on pr or whatever if they were to support Starmer.

In 2015 PR would have yielded over 50% of parliament being UKIP or the Tories (with significant representation for Greens) however that is analysis in a vacuum, or a gap in the blinds, depending on your metaphorical preference. .

We can assume the political strategy of both Tories and Labour would have to alter and yield different outcomes to that.

Under PR, UKIP would have marmalised the Tories and we'd have had the Brexit shitfit years earlier.

Effectively PR means more democracy but as with all policies it needs support from a raft of others. Open selection of MPs. Media regulation a la Leveson 2?

Things are locked in place for one reason and that is consolidation of power. Labour are complicit with the Tories in maintaining the two party system even though it is one they hardly ever win in. Pathetic.

[Blinder Data]

I think the funniest outcome would be if Starmer Frank-Spencered his way out of forming a coalition with the SNP by trying to look hard in England only to get pummelled in round 2.

Long term it would be less funny. But on the day I'd laugh my brambles off.

Labour wouldn't enter into a coalition with the SNP. They'd probably rely on SNP support without offering anything, the gamble being the SNP wouldn't want to block or bring down a non-Tory government - which would probably work. SNP could end up torpedoing a Labour government after a while like in 1979, but I'm getting ahead of myself now...

It's probably stupid of me but I'm put off electoral reform by all the fbpe types clamouring for it. Wouldn't it be the best way for the left to get representation in government though? That's why I'm thinking that suffering a short term lib dem /labour coalition may be a best option as the former would surely insist on pr or whatever if they were to support Starmer.

I would love to see PR implemented. It would split parties but so what? Our party political system needs a shake-up. On a basic democratic principle, UKIP deserved to have MPs based on how many votes they got, same for Greens. The problem is MPs would have to vote for it and they never would - there are too many of them for whom link to their constituency is sacrosanct, the self-centred dinosaurs.

[Psybro]

In a scenario where the Tories have most MPs but no majority, I could see this Labour party choosing to allow them to stay in No 10 as a minority government to avoid looking "weak" by relying on votes from other parties to get into power, voting down the next Budget and then watching the electorate return a rock solid Tory majority in a snap election.  Because grown-ups.

[Sebastian Cobb]

In a scenario where the Tories have most MPs but no majority, I could see this Labour party choosing to allow them to stay in No 10 as a minority government to avoid looking "weak" by relying on votes from other parties to get into power

that would be in keeping with their current cargo cult style

[SpiderChrist]

Oh FFS

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/13/tony-blair-tells-keir-starmer-to-drop-woke-politics-and-focus-on-economy-labour

[Bernice]

What a fucking rube.

[shoulders]

As an example of the kind of radical policy he would like to see, Blair suggests tackling concerns about illegal immigration by introducing biometric ID as a precondition for accessing work and public services

He really is a more disgusting piece of shit

[pigamus]

In 2015 PR would have yielded over 50% of parliament being UKIP or the Tories (with significant representation for Greens) however that is analysis in a vacuum, or a gap in the blinds, depending on your metaphorical preference. .

That could be a very useful point in the argument actually - pointing out that Nigel Farage was robbed. Harder for the Daily Mail to argue with!

[jobotic]

It really is about time the party of Rosie Duffield stopped bending over backwards for the transes

[The Dog]

Yes Tony let's focus on economic policy

[SpiderChrist]

Great idea, Tone. Let's focus on making it harder for people to access work and public services. Amazing that this is listed as a "radical" idea, when:

For the last five years' core homelessness has been rising year on year in England, reaching a peak just before the pandemic when the numbers of homeless households jumped from 207,600 in 2018 to over 219,000 at the end of 2019. By the end of 2021, 227,000 households across Britain were experiencing the worst forms of homelessness.

For the first time outside of the first year of the pandemic, food banks in the Trussell Trust network have distributed over 2.1 million food parcels in 2021-22.

6,358,050 people currently on an NHS waiting list. 306,286 of these have been waiting over 52 weeks

What a guy ghoul.

[Sebastian Cobb]

He really is desperate for that id database still then. When he was in gov it was for surveillance reasons, what does he get out of it now?

I think every job I've taken has required me to supply my biometric passport as proof I can work (I know there are other ways), the biometric part has been meaningless admittedly because all anyone has ever done with it is photocopy it.

[phantom_power]

The only people who focus on "woke" stuff are right wingers. What have Labour said or done in the last couple of years that is in any way "woke"?

[Sebastian Cobb]

The only people who focus on "woke" stuff are right wingers. What have Labour said or done in the last couple of years that is in any way "woke"?

I think the answer to that would be remarkably similar to "What have Labour said or done in the last couple of years?".

[Sebastian Cobb]

[olliebean]

The only people who focus on "woke" stuff are right wingers. What have Labour said or done in the last couple of years that is in any way "woke"?

From reading the article, the answer appears to be "Not been instantly dismissive of the existence of trans people."

[phantom_power]

The only time I have heard even left wing people talk about "woke" stuff is in response either to questions from right wingers about our supposed obsession with "woke" or when some right wing cunt says or does something awful about a minority. As far as I can see most left wing people are more interested in general social and economic change than anything, though twats probably think that is woke

Want less homeless people? Fucking snowflake
Think young people should be able to afford housing? Virtue signalling
Think food banks are a sign of a failing government? Woke stasi!

[king_tubby]

OJ's just tweeted that the entire Wakefield CLP has resigned in protest at the national Labour Party breaking its own rules and refusing to let local members freely choose they're own candidate.

[Sebastian Cobb]

OJ's just tweeted that the entire Wakefield CLP has resigned in protest at the national Labour Party breaking its own rules and refusing to let local members freely choose they're own candidate.

Taking the piss really aren't they.

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1525046748900732928

[Zetetic]

Regarding "electoral reform" - what England really needs is some actual local governments, not fiddling about the details of how the Westminster administration is put together.

Whether this is more or less likely to happen in our lifetimes, I don't know. It depends on a two-stage process whereby either the Tories or Labour reckon that they can invent a new layer of government where they can lock-in electoral victories for the foreseeable future, and events conspiring for that layer to actually be able to demand some real power for itself. (The devolved governments are still struggling towards the second of these, not always very willingly.)

[Zetetic]

On that note:


(Other options for weak lights in the darkness include Burnham and tram-trains.)

[Sebastian Cobb]

There's a man who saw Day of the Triffids at too early an age.

[Memorex MP3]

Taking the piss really aren't they.

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1525046748900732928

Wasn't a decent chunk of why the Tories done so well in 2019 that they took a punt on local weirdos against Labour MPs that were parachuted into presumed safe seats years ago?

[Mr_Rich]

In that case it would be limousine cars of a Labour-led government, that's my point. They've learnt their lesson from their near-death experience thanks to the coalition years. They are attracting loads of Toryish voters who hate Johnson and Starmer doesn't scare them like Corbyn did.

Lib Dems would not support Johnson in a minority government - another leader, well, it's possible but I doubt it.

I think you're wildly optimistic about the Lib Dems here. They'd chauffeur the limo for Johnson. It'll always fall back to the selfishness of greed for them over social libertarianism 

[king_tubby]

Wasn't a decent chunk of why the Tories done so well in 2019 that they took a punt on local weirdos against Labour MPs that were parachuted into presumed safe seats years ago?

Which is why Imran Ahmad Khan, the local Tory nonce beat Mary Creagh, who'd made herself incredibly unpopular since being parachuted in, and who was within a gnat's ball hair of joining Tinge, in 2019.

[king_tubby]

During the 2017 general election, Creagh was reported as writing to constituents to say that her team had been "speaking to people in your street" who had told them they had "more confidence in Theresa May as Prime Minister than Jeremy Corbyn," predicted a large Tory majority and called for a vote for them as individuals while promising to "work for a Labour Party that can once again regain your confidence."

9.4% swing to her in 2017.