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X-Men discussion thread

Started by bgmnts, May 17, 2022, 12:03:04 PM

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Dayraven

QuoteNext issue: return of Anus, Blob AND Lucifer! Get fucking in!
This is also where Roy Thomas takes over from Stan Lee. Thomas was probably one of the first examples of fan-turned-writer, and at this point he does a pastiche of Lee plus a greater fondness for literary and 1940s comic references (which he can get really pedantic about, but that doesn't happen much in this series).

bgmnts

Quote from: Dayraven on May 26, 2022, 09:13:44 AMThis is also where Roy Thomas takes over from Stan Lee. Thomas was probably one of the first examples of fan-turned-writer, and at this point he does a pastiche of Lee plus a greater fondness for literary and 1940s comic references (which he can get really pedantic about, but that doesn't happen much in this series).

You are correct, although Lee is still editing the mag so I'm unsure how much of this stuff is Lee's input.

I'm hoping that a fan-turned-writer might have a more serious or - I dunno - a more caring approach.

Magnum Valentino

I think it makes a big difference with Spider-Man. It spins its wheels for a long time after Ditko leaves (some great stories mind, that's not a dig) but it's not until Lee leaves and Gerry Conway is appointed his full time replacement (after a few issues from - surprise - Roy Thomas!) that the book becomes properly brilliant again.

Famously Roger Stern was a huge Spider-Man fan for years before being chosen to write it, and he's one of the very best of all time.

bgmnts

Just out of interest, do you X fans think there would be much interest in this retrospective in the form of a blog or podcast? I used to listen to the Uncanny X Cast a looong time ago but unsure if that still exists, so dont know if there'd be any demand to revisit these comics beyond my own enjoyment.

Dr Rock

Quote from: bgmnts on May 27, 2022, 09:15:03 PMJust out of interest, do you X fans think there would be much interest in this retrospective in the form of a blog or podcast? I used to listen to the Uncanny X Cast a looong time ago but unsure if that still exists, so dont know if there'd be any demand to revisit these comics beyond my own enjoyment.

Yeah. Get on that YouTube. The hook is your amusing takes.

bgmnts

Quote from: Dr Rock on May 27, 2022, 09:29:15 PMYeah. Get on that YouTube. The hook is your amusing takes.

Cheers! My worry then would be that it would be less fun as the books get less silly. Def thinking about it though.

madhair60

calling Unus "Anus" makes me laugh every time because I imagine the X-Men doing it and him getting wound up

bgmnts

I now imagine the X-Men calling him Anus and it makes me smile.

In fact, this issue is just awesome because it's Blob and Anus and I couldn't be happier with this pair.

Bit of a short hiatus because I was just a bit burnt out and am trying to work out how a podcast works and how to stop reflexively vomiting every time I hear my voice in an audio recording. If I get round to making it then I'll post it here if that's okay with Barry.

Dr Rock

Maybe you could do a podcast focusing on the wackiness of other 60s Marvel mags instead of/as well as a journey through the X-Men history. Or would that not tickle your fancy?

madhair60

cant you just do a thread? why does it have to be a podcast.

bgmnts

#20: I, Lucifer: We Need to Talk About Anus.

   So we open with Blob AND Anus (YES!) dressed in the yellow and blue X-Uniforms robbing a bank. My initial reaction was one of immense joy at the adorable thought of Blob and Anus staying up all night to sew their own costumes, as surely they would need a custom fit. Blob met Anus at an event and they quickly figured they were both mutants and both hate the X-Men so let's team up.
   Cyclops QUITS THE TEAM! because he loves Jean but his eyes are just too dangerous, searching for a doctor to cure his eye beams What happens when he sleeps or showers, does he still wear the glasses? Anyway, he runs into Blob and Anus and manages to change into his costume exactly one minute later to confront them. The masses have none of it though, so Scott runs away from potential lynching #763
   Xavier runs through the list of villains in his head as to ascertain who this could be on the telly making the X-Men look bad in a bit straight out of the Simpsons: Magneto... Juggernaut... dental plan... Vanisher... Stranger... dental plan.
   Meanwhile, Lucifer is back, watching it all unfold on telly, revealing that this is his doing. Bizarrely, he is dressed as Magneto, with the red top and bottoms and a purple band and cape.
   The rest of gang confront Blob n' Anus and Beast goes to use his science ray that he used ages ago to get Anus to stop doing crimes, by augmenting his powers to the point where he couldn't even eat. However, the ray doesnt work and the people start beating up Hank and Cyclops rescues them by shooting a beam straight down the NYC pavement causing Blob and Anus to get whisked away by the subway.
   Lucifer's mento-wave reciever goes nuts and, as per his mysterious plan, Xavier has penetrated his mental screen. In a southwestern part of the US, a gigantic ball shape on top of a tower emerges from a canyon, and a cannon emerges from the ball (a canyon cannon) and shoots up into space. This potent beam will go back to the source of Xavier's mind stuff and the world will be Lucifer's mwahahaha!
   Xavier goes into a coma due to Lucifer's mind rape and Jean (who had to stay behind because girls can't fight or something I dunno) has to use the mental amplifier to listen to Xavier's wheelchair's origin story:
   
Xavier goes to Tibet and finds a walled city under the thrall of Lucifer. He attempts to stop him and it is here we see Lucifer is an alien and is contacted by a large head in a green mask, referring to Lucifer as "Agent One". Lucifer is commanded to relocate and on the way he drops a concrete slab on Xavier, which confines him to a wheelchair.

Fin.

Back to the present, Lucifer's success in manipulating Blob and Anus heralds the imminent appearance of Dominus! And Jean relays a message to Beast to make some sci fi device that is basically his head in a fishtank that revives him. They shoot off in a new jet to confront Lucifer.

Letters:

Nothing interesting beyond a letter from Portsmouth. A bloke who thought that american comics were "drivel" but has been converted thanks to the X-Men and Sgt. Fury.

bgmnts

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 03, 2022, 04:54:50 PMMaybe you could do a podcast focusing on the wackiness of other 60s Marvel mags instead of/as well as a journey through the X-Men history. Or would that not tickle your fancy?

Possibly, to be quite honest these are fun for a bit of a pisstake and interesting as a foundation that the characters were built on but I waiver on whether these are actually fun to read or not. I could branch out and read other things but the X-Men are a big enough task for now!

Quote from: madhair60 on June 03, 2022, 05:20:09 PMcant you just do a thread? why does it have to be a podcast.

Well I'm still doing this thread, just thought maybe I could do it in another format also. Unsure yet.

bgmnts

21: X-Menas eunt Dominus.

So the gang are on their way to the Southwest when a bolt of light from space goes into the butte in the canyons and this is also seen by some cowboys not too far away. Surprise, surprise, they have heard of the exploits of the X-Men robbing that bank in the previous issue on the radio and they meet and get in a pointless fight that just wastes a few minutes. Xavier gets kidnapped by these green robots and the gang get sucked into a whirlpool.
  Turns out DOMINUS is just a big stupid machine and the robots are integral to the function of it; namely enslaving planets through mind control. This is Lucifer's plan for Earth. The X-Men all get owned by the dumbest shit like a glass box and a wall, as per, and Xavier goes all stoic and quiet. Bobby and Hank are the only ones here with some dynamic and relationship.
  The gang escape the prison box and whilst travelling to the heart of the machine where Xavier and Lucifer are they get a mental message from Xavier to NOT wreck Dominus. Only Cyclops believes this is real and goes so far as to eye-beam Angel to stop him from hulk smashing the base. Iceman goes nuts and almost ice cubes Cyke before Jean stops him.
  The robots start going mad and try to kill the gang and keep smashing into Dominus, ending with all of them getting exploded, rendering Dominus useless somehow. This was Xavier's plan all along and managed to subtly manipulate Lucifer into making sure he controls the robots recklessly.
  Lucifer get's teleported into the Phantom Zone or whatever and that's the end of that. Up next: Count Nefaria.

  Sorry guys but this was absolute dogshit and I don't know if it's because I am tired but this just felt like a slog and a waste of my time. I'm only a third of the way through this shit as well, I hope it at least get's entertaining again. Personally, I want to read about a team of Blob, Anus, Toad and Mastermind all committing petty crimes whilst trying not to kill each other. I'm not a fan of the art really either, the faces look weird and there was even a mistake I spotted on the cover, where Lucifer's hood was read and not purple.
  Unsure if it's always been the case but the x-men sometimes have no eyes in their outfits, just white Batman things, making them look like the old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Meh letters, some love the art, some hate the art. Some didnt like issues 17 and 18, some did.

Now, I know Count Nefaria because he is in Giant Sized era and I believe he crosses over from Avengers etc, so I know he's stupid but I'm hoping he adds a bit of oomph into this.

Magnum Valentino


bgmnts

Ha i'm glad. I took a sneak peek at the cover of next issue and Count Nefaria has a squad of creitnous gimmick goons and i'm fuuuuucking excited.

There was a two page little piece by Roy Thomas on his recollection of these issues that I decided not to fully read as they delved into spoilers but caught glimpses of Porcupine and Scarecrow. They look nice and shit and i'm pumped to the max.

bgmnts

Would it be a good idea to perhaps get the newer comics in as well when they're available and discuss them at the same time? Maybe starting with Bendis' All New run?

letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on June 07, 2022, 08:24:43 PMWould it be a good idea to perhaps get the newer comics in as well when they're available and discuss them at the same time? Maybe starting with Bendis' All New run?

The Bendis run might make the Gary Friedrich issues of this original run look better in comparison.

Bendis dawdled so much in his run that Cyclops shows up in Hickman's Avengers with a Phoenix Egg for the universe ending Secret Wars event, without Bendis ever getting around to writing the story where Cyclops finds it.

bgmnts

Ooh okay well I havent got up to the Friedrich issues yet and I remember reading the first couple of volumes of All New way back when it came out and remember it being interesting time travel stuff so I may have a looksie, see if it has a good parallel.

letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on June 07, 2022, 10:48:47 PMOoh okay well I havent got up to the Friedrich issues yet and I remember reading the first couple of volumes of All New way back when it came out and remember it being interesting time travel stuff so I may have a looksie, see if it has a good parallel.

All New was certainly better than his Uncanny, though later writers make better use of his time-lost X-Men premise.

I remember the 2014 Cyclops series where Corsair takes the chance at actually being a dad to the young Cyclops being particularly good.

bgmnts

Quote from: letsgobrian on June 07, 2022, 10:55:14 PMAll New was certainly better than his Uncanny, though later writers make better use of his time-lost X-Men premise.

I remember the 2014 Cyclops series where Corsair takes the chance at actually being a dad to the young Cyclops being particularly good.

Ah right okay, I didnt even know Bendis did a run on the main book, I just remember it was Avengers vs X-Men and then all new. Comic books are confusing.
Dreading reading these Friedrich issues later on now though oof.


letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on June 07, 2022, 11:04:36 PMAh right okay, I didnt even know Bendis did a run on the main book, I just remember it was Avengers vs X-Men and then all new. Comic books are confusing.
Dreading reading these Friedrich issues later on now though oof.

My memory is of them being very boring. There's not many of them though, and you get Arnold Drake straight after.

bgmnts

Well if anyone wants to read or re-read these whilst i'm reading them and share thoughts (i'm sure there are torrents or comixology or whatever for cheap) I'd be happy with that.

But to be honest the low point so far is that Decimus issue, an absolute stinker. I  am not looking forward to anymore boring shit but the novelty of the first 66 still hasnt quite worn off yet.

letsgobrian

Lucifer is back in 3 years, but this time in an Iron Man comic. It's from Archie Goodwin and George Tuska, and is much better than these X-Men stories. Lucifer tries to use a jerk security guard to escape his dimensional prison. It plays more like sci-fi horror that just happens to have Iron Man show up at the end.

Dominus has to wait longer until the West Coast Avengers run across him in the 80s. He has spent the intervening years making some of the lamest henchbeings, presumably to make himself seem cooler in comparison.

bgmnts

Fuck both of those, I never want to read them again.

Also, if anyone would prefer to experience these reviews/whatever they are in audio form, here is the link to my podcast twitter. But I will still be doing issue by issue here if you prefer waffly text!

I literally whipped this up in the past hour having no experience talking, editing audio or just generally being entertaining or interesting so bear with me!

bgmnts

22: Divided... We Suck

Nefaria just got his arse handed to him by Iron Man apparently but is now back in control of "The Maggia" (wtf?) and wants the X-Men to join him. He has a team of goons he calls his lieutenants.
Danger Room training sequence! They all learn how to work as a team great move on.
  It's VACATION TIME! Angel asks Jean out for dinner and Scott tags along like the beta cuck, pathetic third wheel he is. Bobby and Hank shoot off to meet Zelda and Vera, their girlfriends I think at this point. Zelda is a I think the pretty one and Vera is the Velma looking nerdy one. Vera has a bit of sass to her.
  X-Men are spotted around central park and each real X-Man investigates one by one, and are apprehended by the goons. Goon #1 is Plantman, looks like Green Panther and his power is plant shit, apprehending Jean. Goon #2 is Scarecrow, just a lad in a green outfit and a pumpkin head type thing who hurls crows at Angel and captures him.
  Beast get's taken out by The Porcupine, and I can barely even describe him, just a big lad in some weird straw coloured outfit who has blowdarts extending from under his hog face chin, weirdo.
  Cyclops and Iceman are then capture by the Eel, man in purple outfit with leccy powers, and The Unicorn, man in Iron Fist style outfit with a large helmet pointed upward, he can do energy bolts or some shit.
  Hilariously, when they all get down, some regular people come out of the woodwork and tie them up, just absolute nobody henchman. Quite a stepdown from Juggernaut and Magneto but ho hum.
  They all get taken to Nefaria's base and the Goon Squad are at each other's throats etc and Nefaria offers the chance for the X gang to get revenge on the society that hates them by teaming up and of course they say no, but he says one way or another they will join him (mind control perhaps?). He unveils his plan to capture the united state's capital and ransom it for.... One Hundred Million Dollars!

Next issue more Nefaria and gimp squad. Utter dirge.

Letters page crap and boring telling everyone how amazing everything is except for one woman who wants to see more of the X-Men's personal lives and enquires as to why they're still at school after graduation, which gets a nothing response.

Dr Rock

Does Jean ever wish there was another girl around to take some of the heat off her from the pubescent horndogs, or does she secretly like there's no competition?

bgmnts

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 11, 2022, 03:21:40 PMDoes Jean ever wish there was another girl around to take some of the heat off her from the pubescent horndogs, or does she secretly like there's no competition?

Nah her only thoughts are Scott, quite literally. She thinks Warren is a decent guy though but he's no Scott.

Bobby and Hank aren't arsed, they have Zelda and Vera and weren't even arsed before that. In fact, Hank's referring to Jean as "female" gives of incel contemptuous vibes towards Jean to me.

letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on June 11, 2022, 01:58:42 PM22: Divided... We Suck

Nefaria just got his arse handed to him by Iron Man apparently but is now back in control of "The Maggia" (wtf?) and wants the X-Men to join him. He has a team of goons he calls his lieutenants.
Danger Room training sequence! They all learn how to work as a team great move on.


The Maggia is one of those things where you assume it's a Comics Code work around like "Zuvembies" (the CC-evading zombies borrowed from Robert E Howard), but according to Brian Cronin it was likely done so as to not upset the Mafia.

bgmnts

Right yeah that was the obvious thought but then I remembered the Punisher had the Mafia in his books right? But that must have been way later because even the Godfather had the mafia taken out of it I think.

Funny name though!

letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on June 11, 2022, 10:18:22 PMRight yeah that was the obvious thought but then I remembered the Punisher had the Mafia in his books right? But that must have been way later because even the Godfather had the mafia taken out of it I think.

Funny name though!

There was a follow up article on the topic of when Marvel first used the word Mafia, and while the Punisher clearly involved the Mafia, they still avoided calling them such.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-comics-mafia-name-maggia-cosa-nostra/

I suspect that the Maggia & Nefaria were more of Kirby idea (see Intergang in the Fourth World comics), because as bad as they are here it's nothing compared to what the Maggia become under Stan's writing in Daredevil when the Masked Marauder takes over Nefaria's operations.