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X-Men discussion thread

Started by bgmnts, May 17, 2022, 12:03:04 PM

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bgmnts

Holy shit that's interesting. First known usage of the word mafia in 2013!

Punisher is such a cool idea. Reckon I could def get into reading those old comics after I've gotten through these X issues.

But yeah guess this maggia group doesnt have much of a shelf life. But I do know Nefaria is actually one of the more effective earlier villains so it's noteworthy.

madhair60

This thread rules btw.

bgmnts, I'm a massive fucking Punisher fan. I'd highly recommend reading Punisher MAX if you don't mind blood/gore/heaviness.

bgmnts

Noted. On a cursory google, that's the sort of Punisher I have in my mind - fat crime lords and lots of gruesome viscera and torture.

Just something about the idea of one family man going absolutely mental and killing every criminal he can before his time's up warms my heart.

bgmnts

Issue 23: To Save a Shitty (Premise)

So, Nefaria enacts his plan, releasing particles in D.C that form into a dome, ransoming the city and the "X-Men" barge in and threaten to make the particles suck up oxygen within hours.
   The real X-Gang are chained up but escape, Jean loosens Scott's eye chain ans he blasts out etc we've seen this stuff a lot.
   They realise they arent in contact with Xavier and wonder why, cut to Xavier working on his mega secret tech project and having shut his mind off to concentrate. He gets a call from Fredericks (the govt liaison bloke he sometimes chats to) and is told the X-Men are ransoming D.C. He contacts the gang and convinces them to go along with his plan.
  The gang then agree to pick up the money and as they do so, the goon squad decide Nefaria can get to fuck and they want the money for themselves. They ambush the X-men and a big fight ensues, a three way gangbang between the gang, the goons and the army.
   Unicorn betrays everyone (he keeps referring to his "power horn" and i laugh every time because i'm a div) and tries to peg it with the money, earning the Count's ire, who puts up one of his mental images of an army to stop Unicorn in his tracks, but he quickly vanishes them. Rest of the goons get into a tangle with the real army and it's the last we see of them... for now...
   Scott gets the briefcase and gives it to Jean to get to Nefaria. As Jean goes to give the case to Nefaria, a mysterious stranger in a hood and mask immobilises his mooks and starts fucking with the Count's computers and causes him to flee with the case. He has the case in his hand and goes off to some cruise ship.
   The mysterious stranger is revealed to be... XAVIER! Yes, he can walk now thanks to his super secret project, some leg braces. Absolute game changer. He wryly remarks that the Count wont enjoy the money whilst lighting up his pipe like the smug twat he is. Cut to Nefaria with the briefcase in his hand as he is accosted by a battered Unicorn, to whom a suggests sharing the money. As they are about to open the case, it disappears!
   Turns out Xavier used Nefaria's own tech against him and the briefcase was a mental image. So how the fuck was he able to carry it all the way to the ship then? Furthermore, why did Xavier have the gang basically just ransom Washington D.C when they could have fought and captured the goons? Another non sensical bit of bollocks here. Oh and by the way Jean gets a letter at the very end and turns out she has to leave the team OH NOOOOO.

Next up: The Locust (sounds like a fucking winner doesnt he?)

Letters page had one letter slagging off X-Men being pampered and being saved multiple times in issues, to which she's not wrong. She also slags off how they treat Captn America and the way I guess the Avengers, saying if she wants to read a Spidey style mag she'll buy a spidey style mag. Love the negative letters way more than positive ones.

Magnum Valentino

Quick question (sorry if you already mentioned it!). Has what Summers and McCoy are talking about happened in the issues you've read so far, specifically the bit about learning the colours?




bgmnts

Ooooh no not yet at least, unless that's passed me by. Don't think I've reached El Tigre yet.

I'll have a look out for that in the subsequent issues.

Magnum Valentino

That's from Morrison's New X-Men run so it'll almost certainly have happened. He's very fond of the 'everything happened and everything matters' approach to continuity.

bgmnts

Issue 24: Plague of Nocunts

   So Jean is off to colleague, and rightfully so, why the other lads havent gone yet is bizarre. Her leaving gift is a corsage, how lovely. She leaves with Warren and Cyke giving her a lift and all three are pining after each other in thought bubbles. Jean is met at the door by Ted Roberts, who quickly moves in and gets a date with her, sharing a "big orange drink". Cyclops looks on despairingly and its funny.
   Meanwhile, mad man Locust has a magno ray that can make giant insects, and he destroys a local farm. X-Men - sans Jean - investigate in their X-Copter and get into a tangle with them and the Locust sees them and swears to destroy them or whatever.
   A few days later, Jean is having a drink with Ted when an old disgraced professor at the uni walks by, a Dr. Hopper. Dr Hopper now works at Ray Chemicals developing pesticides and of course obviously he's the Locust. He is tired of being looked over and his plan is to unleash these giant insects and then destroy them, gaining the plaudits. Mental scientist stuff.
   Jean rejoins the X-Men as it is the weekend and Xavier goes to Ray Chemicals and mentally probes Hopper's equipment and sees a map of the US with Xs marked on it. Hopper takes his mobile lab to one of these spots and then a big fight ensues. Locust escapes and is greeted by a man dressed as a 19th century gentleman who tries to convince him to do the right thing and help humanity. Yes, it's Xavier walking again wearing a ridiculous disguise, it gave me quite a chuckle. Locust tells him to fuck off and Jean tangles his antennae on his costume together, confusing his giant beetle monsters into attacking him.
    Locust pegs it into his mobile disco and the beetles tumble it over a cliff, just being rescued by Angel. Locust then learns the error of his ways and turns himself in. But what if he had an army? Not even the X-Men could stop that!! Will we see him again asks one of the gang? I certainly hope not.

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on June 21, 2022, 10:13:51 AMThat's from Morrison's New X-Men run so it'll almost certainly have happened. He's very fond of the 'everything happened and everything matters' approach to continuity.

Next up: El Tigre! Let's see if we can find whatever Morrison is referencing shall we?

We get a letter from Laos today, a letter asking how Angel kept his wings hidden and an absolutely baffling letter about Communist villains and the application of knowledge.


bgmnts

Issue 25: Le Tigre

   The gang rescue kids from an orphanage - Xavier pines about his legs not working (in the previous issue he is referred to in narration as an "invalid" wtf) - and Jean goes back to real school. She meets Ted Roberts at the door, the weirdo, and thinks he is "a dear". Cyclops gets all bitter like a beta cuck loser and Legend Angel just shrugs and goes "oh well plenty more fish in the sea".
   Meanwhile, in Central America, a bastard of a gem hunter named Juan Meroz, who has given himself the sobriquet El Tigre (classic dick move), is haranguing his helpers to dig for some precious loot and being an all round scummer. He finds the gold and also half of a gem. It pulsates in his hand and gives him weird powers like mind control and sensing danger and he learns it's one half of the gem of the ancient king Kulkucan. He goes off to Manhattan to find the other half.
   Cerebro goes off but it can't get a clear shot of the threat (it's hand waved that it can also detect things that are close to mutants whatever that means) and the gang sans Jean go out into Manhattan and keep bumbping into El Tigre and his goons but don't know who he is. Cyclops has yet another "bumps into someone, glasses come off and they try to lynch him" moment (possibly the fourth or fifth so far?) and he runs back to the hotel. They see on the tv a riot started in a nightclub and see El Tigre and pals. They follow him to a museum and three of the x-men get taken out by a rope, a blowdart and bola. Fucking christ they are shit.
    Cyclops confronts El Tigre but he uses a guard to hold cyke hostage and gets the other half of the gem, harnassing the power of KUKULCAN!

Next up: umm... Holocaust...

Letters are boring, one letter slags off them getting a bit of latin wrong. Beast says "tempus fugits" when of course it should be "tempus fugit" jesus christ Stan.

Nothing about coloured mooks or watercolours yet @Magnum Valentino but perhaps in this next issue!

Dr Rock

I don't trust this Ted Rogers fellow.

The use of 'holocaust' in 60s Marvel comics is ok because the Holocaust didn't get widely refereed to as the Holocaust til the late 70s.

bgmnts

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 21, 2022, 07:43:30 PMI don't trust this Ted Rogers fellow.

The use of 'holocaust' in 60s Marvel comics is ok because the Holocaust didn't get widely refereed to as the Holocaust til the late 70s.

Oh Ted is guaranteed to be a bit rum, and I'm sure he'll be a villain within 3 issues. Although now i'll associate him with dusty bin which is funny.

Ah well alright then, still a bit of a shock to the system seeing HOLOCAUST blasted on a comic book front cover.

letsgobrian

Locust had a very lacklustre villain career. He's back in 9 years when he shows up in Incredible Hulk #194, where we get to meet his daughter & son-in-law. It's essentially a soap-opera plot of a dad mad at his daughter's choice in husband so he unleashes giant insects on their farm.

It's then 14 years until he shows up in X-Factor #52, which I haven't got to yet on my read through of that title.

And that's it!

I thought he had appeared more, but I was getting him mixed up with Humbug, a villain who was designed to be a comedic loser, rather than falling into it like Locust.

bgmnts

So I take it he doesn't do time then?

Seems like the kind of person who'd unleash giant insects if he got a large MOT bill.

Dayraven

QuoteXavier pines about his legs not working (in the previous issue he is referred to in narration as an "invalid" wtf)
See also the angst about Don Blake needing a cane over in Thor at the time.

dontpaintyourteeth

Am I doing X-Men wrong if the only thing I've ever read is Grant Morrison's New X-Men run? Which I thought was okay, the big reveal in the middle of it all was a bit daft though.

Magnum Valentino

I've read the first ten issues, then all of Uncanny X-Men from when Claremont started until he left, New X-Men til Grant left, Astonishing X-Men til Whedon and Cassaday left and the first year or so of the Bendis titles.

Of that, I'd recommend the first few years of Claremont's stuff (anyone would) and the Whedon run is really run and a quick read.

The thing that lets Morrison's run down is that the characters keep pointing out that superhero violence is stupid and pointless. Once is enough but after a while it gets a bit preachy, even though I do agree that the endless scrapping tends to wear thing quickly.

dontpaintyourteeth

Ah, thanks! I imagined Claremont was probably considered the top one. I think I have the Dark Phoenix trade somewhere actually but I never read it because I assumed it was much better if you read all the stuff leading up to it as well. Perhaps I should.

Dr Rock

Quote from: dontpaintyourteeth on June 22, 2022, 11:10:01 AMAh, thanks! I imagined Claremont was probably considered the top one. I think I have the Dark Phoenix trade somewhere actually but I never read it because I assumed it was much better if you read all the stuff leading up to it as well. Perhaps I should.

It is much better if you read everything leading up to it. Plus the Byrne/Claremeont stuff is all good (possible a couple of duffer issues). The Sideshow Wolverine (and the gang) leading into the Magneto issue, Alpha Flight introduction, Logan getting gradually hairier with every issue.

bgmnts

Yes, plus you get to see Count Nefaria's finest hour! The only real run i've done is from Giant Sized up to Dark Phoenix and maybe a bit past that. Seminal I presume. If I recall its actually set up over about 30 issues isnt it? The only problem is if you dont like space opera stuff, and the space opera stuff with the Shi'ar (were they in it? need to re-read) and all that can be intimidating.

bgmnts

Oh and I have said before but considering i'm near the end I want to show how lovely this cover is of the omnibus.



Probably is naff but I love that realistic style of a highly cartoonish old cover. It would be great if they could reprint it all with that style of cover art.

Magnum Valentino

Alex Ross has done a couple of full-length comics and I don't think his style works for storytelling, but it's brilliant for covers, I agree.

I'm after watching X-Men First Class and Fassbender dropping his accent just to talk like he's from the free state for the last twenty minutes or so of the film is still really, really funny.

bgmnts

Literally all I remember from that film is the Wolverine cameo.

I'm still interested to organically come across that Xavier/Magneto relationship in the comics. Obviously not there in silver age but we'll see.

Dayraven

Magneto doesn't really begin to get that development until the Claremont era (issue 150 has his first big turning point).

You don't even see him without his helmet until the late Silver Age.
Spoiler alert
The first time has a nice twist that doesn't have the same impact in retrospect, when a silver-haired older man who we've seen for most of the issue finally reveals himself to be guess who.
[close]

letsgobrian

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on June 22, 2022, 06:33:58 PMAlex Ross has done a couple of full-length comics and I don't think his style works for storytelling, but it's brilliant for covers, I agree.

I'm after watching X-Men First Class and Fassbender dropping his accent just to talk like he's from the free state for the last twenty minutes or so of the film is still really, really funny.

I'm curious about Ross's new FF book, FULL CIRCLE, due in the summer. I was in the boat that he'd gotten stale for a while in 00s. Too much of his art looking like posed models.

But his recent run of covers on Immortal Hulk and elsewhere have broken through that, while still using that very posed approach on covers where it's actually useful, like on his Ultraman work.

The Full Circle art though has a different colouring approach and looks wonderfully lurid in the preview pages.


bgmnts

#26: It's still okay to casually say Holocaust.

So El Tigre now has the amulet of Kalcucan or whatever it's called and he shoots off back to the Mayan ruins where he found the first piece. He does this buy using a solar panel thing around him and h- fuck it I had no clue he just got there quicksharp. He realises the power of the amulet is linked to a giant serpent monument in the ruins and it absorbs solar energy, so he recreates the ruins into a town replete with pyramid and roads and new villagers flock to the call of mighty Kulkookan.
  Meanwhile, Jean gets a call from Xavier asking if she can check out some books from the metro library on pre-Colombian americas. Jean wonders why he doesnt telepathically contact her and I wondered too, guess she's out of the loop now, get fucked Marvel Girl! Jeanie is approached by Ted Rogers in the library with his bessie mate Calvin Rankin, i.e THE MIMIC! Remember this cunt? So he eyes her up and even says don't I know you from somewhere but he was mindraped don't forget so he doesn't know. He vows to not stop til he finds out though. Yes!
   Jean gives books to X, X finds out what he needs and off the gang jet to fight Kucoocan. Finally, a bit of interpersonal stuff as Scott senses Jean might like him back and Angel senses Scott likes Jean and it's reciprocated and he is pissed off at this - despite seemingly moving on in the previous issue fucksake - and is snippy with Scott. Constantly giving him dickish one liners and jibes about being a little whiny fuck all the time crying about his optic beam. Okay I made that up but it was cathartic.
   They immediately fall into a stupid trap - set by INDIANS no less - and escape easy. Cyke's eye beam smashes through the hard earth and they surprise them and trap them (questions on this later). So they assault Qukookuns base and Hank and Bobby quickly figure out that they need to ice up the serpents head to stop it absorbing solar energy (is that how physics works?) and get Kukkoocans to expend his energy so they ask Angel to fly around him. They refer to him as a "feathered fuehrer" which I thought was a very odd choice of words considering the Holocaust title.
   Meanwhile, Cyclops sneaks round the back and loads up his full force blast about to hit Culkin in the back, but his sixth sense sees it coming and he ducks, so Angel gets a full blast of Cyke's optic beam. I obviously burst out laughing because fuck me that is really funny. Doesn't matter though because the serpent is iced up and Culkookan is drained, so in one desperate attempt he causes a huge earthquake and accidentally sinks the thing. Silly boy. Hank and Bobby quickly round him up and see Scott tending to Angel and are like wtf? Angel blurts out Scott did it on purpose because they both love Jean! Whoa! Scott thinks to himself if maybe he did subconsciously do it and he walks off caryying Angel in his arms.
  So, basic love triangle stuff but hey we have some actual drama! Whoooo! About Cyke's power though, he constantly cries about how dangerous he and thats why he can never be with Jean blah blah but it seems his full force blast is only enough to knock Angel unconscious. Yet it's also strong enough to leave huge craters in the earth and smash through concrete pavements. Fucking baffling but who cares I suppose. An interesting direction to go would be to say write Cyclops as just using the fear of his power as an excuse as he is afraid of being rejected by Jean or something. I'd find that interesting myself but i know that wont happen.
  Hopefully Jean get's some hot 3-2-1 action with Ted anyway.

Next up: Return of the Mimic fucking YES!

bgmnts

27: Remember the Mimic?

Yeah, Mimic is back! And we're starting in media res with a fight! Mimic wipes the floor with the gang but he wanders off. Weirdly he can use Xavier's power, so could just mind rape all of them but fuck it fighting is fun. How does Mimic even have his memory and powers back after his last appearance? Well..
  ...sometime earlier, Angel harbours no ill will towards Scott but he is wrecked, he's told his wing ligaments and tendons are still sore and if he doesn't rest he may never fly again, so he's just recuperating. Jean is at sports day on campus and cheering on Ted Rogers. He is really good at running and jumping. I am unsure but I think they're actually going out, and she seems happy so that's nice. Ted mentions his brother Ralph as a source of competitive envy and insecurity ooooh. A random explosion happens in the chemistry building and Cal Rankin staggers out, recognising Jean and remembering everything. Seriously, that's all you're getting.
  Meanwhile, some mad lad The Puppet Master - who looks weirdly like Xavier but wearing a purple dildo suit - is working on his next puppet (using "radioactive clay) and hating the Fantastic Four! His puppet is Xavier, of whom he learnt of through the Mad Thinker in an earlier FF issue and I have no fucking clue what any of this means, but the X-Men are now embedded in the over-arcing Marvel Universe.
  However, Xavier is too strong. Cut to Xavier going "whoa, somebody tried to control my mind, oh well no time to dwell on it now", like a baller. Yet Xavier is nervous and so travels - in his astral form - to Central Europe to recruit our old friends Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, they say "once, our fondest dream to be X-Men but Avengers we are" or something, which doesn't ring very true to be honest. They never liked the X-Men at all, they just hated Magneto.
  Bobby and Hank are double dating with Zelda and Vera again and a bank robbery happens and the guys feel the need to change and stop it. 100% true, my initial thought was hang on just let Spider-Man deal with it, it's NYC and that's his domain. One panel later, Spidey shows up webbing the robbers and Hank n Bobby try to recruit him to the x-men, and he tells them to fuck off pretty quickly. Nobody wants any part of these no marks at all, and who can blame them?
  They then all go to Jean's campus to pick up Jean and try to recruit Johnny Storm but Human Torch is off abroad somewhere so Cal Rankin goes with them instead. Puppet Master just HAPPENS to be scanning metro uni at that moment and makes a Mimic puppet.
  We get a costume change, i.e a red belt over the uniform (jesus christ), and Xavier comes in to announce that Mimic is now leader of the team and I have no idea why. Puppet Master kicks in and we are back where we were. FIGHT!
  The gang fly to Puppet Master's general whereabouts and Cal follows them, and Angel is in tow in his car! Xavier implores him but fuck that he's a hero, "perhaps the most heroic of them all". Funnily enough he says "we used to think he was a frivolous, over indulged son" when in reality I dont remember that aspect of his character or interaction with the team reflecting that at all. It's good they're trying but you can't just retroactively characterise someone can you??
  So anyway, they fight a big clay monster, X-Men and Cal Rankin do the whole "no! you have to fight it!" thing and Angel sneaks up behind Puppet Master and crushes the clay puppet and all is well. Well, except the existential despair that Cal feels at the end of the issue, lamenting that he has no place in society. Ha!

So yeah, any of that potential interpersonal stuff was dashed in the water straight away. We could have gotten a few issues of a Scott and Angel rivalry. Hope Jean just starts shagging Ted fuck it it seems best for her. Bobby and Hank have nothing, absolutely nothing, beyond the comedy duo dynamic, although I swear to god Beast is autistic or aspergic or what. If he refers to a woman as "female" again I'm going to write a letter to Marvel.

One letter rightfully points out that Beast's use of "tete-a-tete" means literally head to head, not heart to heart, as they wrote in the issue. Even if it means it figuratively. So yeah fuck you Roy Thomas!

Another letter thinks Jean shouldn't go to college and date "that creep" Ted Rogers and get all up in her dusty bin.
Clearly some frustrated nerds here but I suppose that is the majority of the audience so fair fucks to them for at least being honest.
One heartwarming letter from a Barbara Chung mentions loving the X-Men as being the only woman in her fencing team made her feel like one of the guys and a true equal. That was quite nice.  Although she is rightfully irritated at how shit a character Jean Grey is. Quite funny how later on Jean will become one of the most powerful things in the universe and have to deal with that power and darkness and be quite interesting whereas now she's just a 60s lady cheering on a man at the track meet.

Next up: Wail of the Banshee!

Dayraven

QuoteMeanwhile, some mad lad The Puppet Master - who looks weirdly like Xavier but wearing a purple dildo suit - is working on his next puppet (using "radioactive clay) and hating the Fantastic Four! His puppet is Xavier, of whom he learnt of through the Mad Thinker in an earlier FF issue and I have no fucking clue what any of this means, but the X-Men are now embedded in the over-arcing Marvel Universe.
Puppet Master does look kind of like Xavier, except he's often drawn with wide-open eyes and a big grin to make him look like a puppet himself. The Mad Thinker is your standard-issue mad scientist whose gimmick is predicting the exact second thing are going to happen. Both mainly Fantastic Four villains, as you might expect.

bgmnts

Yeah I'm wondering if I've needed to be reading FF or Avengers or something to keep up. Angel made a reference to Hawkeye in the previous issue and had no clue what he was on about.

The Mad Thinker's power is both really shit and really cool.

Dayraven

You shouldn't do — heavy crossovers only begin in about the late 80s, just figuring that this is a thing from some other book will generally be fine for a long time yet.

bgmnts

Issue 28: Mimic Rules

  So we open with a heist from the eponymous Banshee, a dastardly flying mutant who can sort of screech through the air with his sonic power and it pierces people's eardrums putting them into a hypnotic state. He goes to a gallery and nicks a "Gaelic Landscape" which Stan says referring to the Scottish Highlands. Now i'd associate anything Gaelic beyond the language as Irish but there we are i'm probably wrong.
  Meanwhile, the gang are testing Cal Rankin's powers as Xavier has mentally increased the range of them before they dissipate. Cal ignores X's warnings and almost get's himself killed because he gives no fucks. This leads to Cyke getting arsey and one of the best bits of dialogue in this entire run so far:



  Anyway Mimic has decided to stay with the x-men for the foreseeable to help with the lingering threat that Xavier has sensed for a while, since Puppet Master at least. Banshee heads back to his hideout and he is teamed up with a fat purple lad named Ogre who is working for an organisation called Factor Three, who know about the x-men and plans to kidnap the professor. He needs Banshee to do this. Banshee nips out again for some baccy and is spotted by a half deaf janitor who locks him in but Banshee uses his screech to bust out.
  This news bursts out on the radio as Jean and Ted are having a nice sit down by a tree on campus. Ted is reading a letter from home and is brooding about his brother. Ted somehow knows there is more to this story than a simple robbery, interesting.
  So Banshee and Ogre get in their pod thing and go off to fight the X-men whilst they prepare by putting in ear shields and monitoring Cerebro. It goes apeshit and BAM! Banshee gives them all an earful. Ogre kidnaps the prof but Jean shows up and stops him. They fight but then hilariously Ogre is tripped up by a tied and prone Xavier and he scarpers. He and Banshee have a tiff when they get back and plan a second assault.
  The gang get new and improved ear wax shield things and they manage to capture Banshee thanks to Mimic using Banshee's power and they dump him in a gravity and air free tank with enough oxygen to breathe. Scott goes to fetch some equipment and notices a heavy oaken door that has been locked since they came back from their last holiday. Hmmm...
  Ogre bundles in and tries to kill Banshee but is stopped and then Mimic fucks up Ogre whilst Banshee is freed from his tank by Xavier. Banshee frees himself and reveals he was only working with Ogre due to the headband he put on him that would kill him by remote control, and the fight with Mimic broke that control. So he's not evil but he did steal a priceless painting and some imported tobacco just for the lols. And yeah Mimic saved the day, go Mimic!

   The art looks terrible here by the way, Banshee looks like an actual human chimp and the faces on the X-Men look weird, their chins especially.

Some decent letters, two from women. One saying they like Jean going off to college, one saying they don't. One letter saying how cringe it is that they are called the X-Men despite Jean Grey (which yeah fair enough it's shocking really) being in it and can they call it X-People or something. I think X-Team would have worked but fuck knows.

Next up: The Super Adaptoid (sigh)