what is your opinion of "Red Dwarf"

[Ron Maels Moustache]

Probably because they didn't want to pay for the actors likenesses.

I think it's more of an "Artist hasn't seen the show nor read the brief thoroughly enough" situation.

[Mobbd]

yeah would be great. but you'd need to plan shots very carefully so he can be locked out on a non-moving background, or you just need to go through every frame and mark out where Chris Barrie is (rotoscoping) so it can have a different pass.

now if you filmed his performance separately and comped him in you'd lose so much of the dynamics of performance. or you could have him in a green suit with just his face visible and make his body CG I suppose

Or! Film the whole show in black-and-white then colorise everything that isn't Rimmer.

[superthunderstingcar]

Or! Film the whole show in black-and-white then colorise everything that isn't Rimmer.

Wouldn't have taken long for seasons 1-2, amiright?

[Mobbd]

Wouldn't have taken long for seasons 1-2, amiright?

Wehey!

[Sebastian Cobb]

Was just thinking it's pretty funny how much effort they put into talkie toaster being relentlessly annoying just so it could deliver a single well timed 'so what else is new?'.

[Mobbd]

Was just thinking it's pretty funny how much effort they put into talkie toaster being relentlessly annoying just so it could deliver a single well timed 'so what else is new?'.

I love those early toaster scenes. No joke: they got me into philosophy. I was a kid and I figured "I toast therefore I am" must be a reference to something so I looked it up. Thanks, Toaster!

He's well-used in White Hole too.

It's long annoyed me that he's a fan favourite though, in all the fanfic and all over the official website and the likes. Not canonically overused at all but I long wished the [other] nerds would shut up about him.

Random memory of Doug at a fan convention being asked if Talkie would be in Series X. He said the new series would be set on Red Dwarf so "things like vending machines and toasters will be around." There's something about that phrasing that suggests Doug didn't think of Talkie as special or even really a character distinct from vending machines and other talking scenery. Which is fine by me.

[superthunderstingcar]

I'm minded to blame the Smegazine for Talkie Toaster becoming a fan favourite, they seemed to have an inexplicable love for the character.

Mind you, the Smegazine started up just before series 5 was broadcast, so the White Hole appearance would still have been relatively recent and novel at the time.

[Magnum Valentino]

I'm listening to Better Than Life. Did I hear right that the planet crash-landed-onto from "Marooned" is actually Earth?

[JamesTC]

I'm listening to Better Than Life. Did I hear right that the planet crash-landed-onto from "Marooned" is actually Earth?

In Marooned it isn't. In the book Better Than Life it is.

[first skeleton on mars]

In regards to this American printing of the first two books combined, did they just think no one over there would EVER see the series and invite the artist to base his work on descriptions?

My first exposure to Red Dwarf was reading Backwards, which wasn't age-appropriate at the time and probably still isn't. I think the impression I formed of the Cat was roughly something like that. Don't remember the book too well, but I do remembering being very confused by it.

[purlieu]

Yes, Backwards is where Rob got the reputation for being a twisted fucker. Almost literally with the whole Cat's barbed penis chapter.

[first skeleton on mars]

Fair play to him, that was the only part I did remember.

[Mobbd]

I was thinking about Red Dwarf today and how I'd like to do one of those fan edits of Out of Time, the only change being that it no longer says "to be continued" at the end. (No urine-recyc deleted scene either).

My wife said I was a very clever boy for thinking of this but then we discussed what would have happened if they'd finished the show in a happier way. Lister gets KK back, Rimmer gets his new body (which sort-of happened in Legion really), Kryten gets his lovely garden in one of those domes like the one Thomas Allman lived in, and Cat...

we decided it didn't matter what happened to the Cat and that he's not a Main One at all really but an event that happened along the way like the Polymorph. Maybe he could go space-hopping with Camille and Hector Blob.

[JamesTC]

Cat is already living his best life.

[BeardFaceMan]

Was it ever mentioned how old Cat is, or how long he was on-board RD for before Lister was woken up?

[Magnum Valentino]

Struggled through series 1, at least half of which isn't as good as I remember. The main problem is forgiveable - it's new, the characters aren't worked out and the chemistry isn't there.

It's amazing then how incredible "Kryten" is from the first gag, into the new title format of BIG LETTERS into the exterior shot of the Nova 5. A new location!

Charles is a much better actor, Rimmer has softened a bit and is just likeable enough, and they actually feel like they've known each other for years rather than two lads working their way through rehearsals.

[Queen Peach]

watching again, finishing s2 just now. fantastic stuff. such well written, cosy stuff

[Mobbd]

Love that big banana, baby.

[Scrapey Fish]

Do we know whether Rob, Doug or both were writing semi-autobiographically when they created the Rimmer character? For example his hatred of small talk? Listening to the audio books, the complex web of neuroses is so well fleshed out, I'm slightly awed by the quality of the characterisation

[Toki]

I don't know about autobiographical, but I suspect Rob Grant has/had the former grip on Rimmer, judging by how hard his Backwards novel goes in on him. Naylor on his own seems to never characterise Rimmer quite right. There are good moments with him, but he's not particularly Classic Rimmer in them, the TV show and Last Human.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Was it ever mentioned how old Cat is, or how long he was on-board RD for before Lister was woken up?

The book Backwards implies he must be about ages with Lister (assuming the evolved Cat-Humanoid species has a biological clock that ticks at the same as Humans).

[Scrapey Fish]

I don't know about autobiographical, but I suspect Rob Grant has/had the former grip on Rimmer, judging by how hard his Backwards novel goes in on him. Naylor on his own seems to never characterise Rimmer quite right. There are good moments with him, but he's not particularly Classic Rimmer in them, the TV show and Last Human.

I haven't got to Backwards yet in my relisten, but the reveal in Better Than Life that

Spoiler alert

1) every person he met in the game is in some way a product of his insecurities, including the Rimmettes who are all women who rejected him or who he knew simply wouldn't be interested in the first place, 2) he was about to marry a woman modelled on his mother, right down to her having the same underpants, as a reaction to his experience with Juanita, who herself was modelled on his brother's wife, and 3) his psyche hates him so much that it is destined to destroy the experience for everyone,

[close]

is spectacular

[Consignia]

I'm listening to the audio book at the moment (unabridged! for the first time). I'm enjoying the extended story quite a bit, but I do find it funny how it snaps back to a transcript of the show when they closely adapt an episode. I guess it really helps make it feel that way with Chris Barrie really going at it.

I've previously said I would like to see a Netflix style adapation of the books, with a completely different cast. But listening to the book, I actually think some of the imagery and story telling might be more suited to an animation, with the cast returning to voice their characters. I'd be happy with either, to be honest. I think a good adaption could smooth out some of the sitcommy bits without removing the comedy.

[Mobbd]

I've previously said I would like to see a Netflix style adapation of the books, with a completely different cast. But listening to the book, I actually think some of the imagery and story telling might be more suited to an animation, with the cast returning to voice their characters. I'd be happy with either, to be honest. I think a good adaption could smooth out some of the sitcommy bits without removing the comedy.

I'm more on the side of the Netflix-style option but animation could be okay. I'd be hoping for a grown-up style of animation though: more Ghost in the Shell than Star Trek: Lower Decks. Given the cheapness of the latter and the association with comedy, I think that would be a temptation unfortunately.

[Consignia]

Yeah, I was thinking of a Western graphic novel style, a bit like the Netflix Castlevania stuff. I really don't think a cartoony style would work if it were to attempt to a proper adaptation of the books; it just couldn't capture bleakness of the situation.

[purlieu]

A four-series-of-eight-episodes comedy drama of the novels is something I planned out when I was re-reading them with the Ganymede & Titan Book Club the other year. Backwards would need a bit of restructuring (including re-ageing Lister and Cat, because them as teenagers is tedious) and Last Human would need some re-writes to make it seem less like a half-arsed first draft, but I think it would work really well. Outside of the direct episode transcripts, the drama is definitely increased so I think the format would suit it. You can tweak the end of Backwards so in the parallel universe they find a crew with Kochanski present and do Last Human as the final series.

My favourite bit is wiping the crew out at the end of episode three. This would be much more of a shock to newcomers than midway through the first episode; I think it's one of the strongest bits of the novels and really adds to the tragedy in a way you don't get from 12 minutes of screen time.


Season One (Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers)
EP1: Saunders & McIntyre; all the Mimas stuff; ends with Lister arriving on board
EP2: Z Shift; Lister's social life and the Kochanski story; ends on their breakup
EP3: Rimmer's exam; Lister and Frankenstein; ends on the crew being wiped out
EP4: Lister loses it; Rimmer returns; the Cat city is discovered
EP5: Future Echoes
EP6: Kryten; ends on the two Rimmers reveal
EP7: Me^2; mining
EP8: Better Than Life

Season Two (Better Than Life)
EP1: Things running 'as normal' in BTL; Holly and Talkie; ends on the lorry crash
EP2: Escape from BTL
EP3: Lister and Cat's recovery; starting the engines; discovering the planet
EP4: Playing pool with planets
EP5: Marooned
EP6: Black hole stuff; young Lister on Garbage World
EP7: Old Lister on Garbage World
EP8: Polymorph; Backwards world

Season Three (Backwards)
EP1: Escape from Niagara Falls
EP2: Arrival in mountains and attempted escape from Backwards Earth
EP3: Ace Rimmer
EP4: Back to Backworld
EP5: Lister and Cat being re-aged 10 years in deep-sleep; Recovering Holly; meeting Ace; Agonoids backstory
EP6: Repairing Starbug; Ace's death; Djuhn'Keep's attack
EP7: High Midnight through to Lister being crushed
EP8: High Midnight climax and ending (including revelation that Kochanski is there)

Season Four (Last Human)
EP1: Cyberia; discovering the alternate Starbug
EP2: GELF moons
EP3: Kinitowawi
EP4: Escape from Cyberia
EP5: McIntyre; Lister in Cyberia; discovery of Mayflower
EP6: Lister & Reketrebin; Quarantine viruses & DNA machine
EP7: Lister & Reketrebin on the planet, DNA
EP8: Final battle with Evil Lister and The Rage

[Consignia]

My favourite bit is wiping the crew out at the end of episode three. This would be much more of a shock to newcomers than midway through the first episode; I think it's one of the strongest bits of the novels and really adds to the tragedy in a way you don't get from 12 minutes of screen time.

In general your whole idea is pretty good (I'd have made Backwards and Last Human alternative conclusions to Better than Life, but it's probably better to have a single thread of a series). However this point in particular really nails why I think it'd make a good serial. A movie adaptation would be too compressed, but a slow build up to the core of the series would be great. I think you could even spend a bit more time exploring the world Lister came from. It's really what the novels do well, before they start getting into more of the adaptation of the TV Series.

[purlieu]

Yeah, it's difficult knowing what to do with the two different timelines, but Backwards being open ended and with half an alternate crew sets up Last Human well, while that book has a very definitive ending to the whole thing, so they tie together far better than two very disparate stories should. That said, in Last Human they are themselves in an alternate universe, so it'd still require some heavy lifting on the scriptwriter's part.

The books have so much great stuff not set in deep space and they'd all be part of my adaptation - as you say, the pre-accident stuff is some of the best material in them, but also Kryten's backstory, the Eurovision style vote turning Earth into Garbage World (and its subsequent "farting its way out of the solar system"), a history of GELFs (complete with Scotland failing to qualify for the World Cup despite having a goalkeeper as a lump of flesh the shape of a goal), it's all really rich stuff.

[Incy Wincy Mincey]

The books have so much great stuff not set in deep space and they'd all be part of my adaptation - as you say, the pre-accident stuff is some of the best material in them, but also Kryten's backstory, the Eurovision style vote turning Earth into Garbage World (and its subsequent "farting its way out of the solar system"), a history of GELFs (complete with Scotland failing to qualify for the World Cup despite having a goalkeeper as a lump of flesh the shape of a goal), it's all really rich stuff.

I had no idea there were unabridged audio versions of the books (thanks @Consignia!) so have been listening through over the last few days and came to post exactly that - the world-building stories are definitely the highlight. I'd love it if Grant Naylor had turned their hand to a series of short stories in the Red Dwarf universe along these lines (Saunders, McIntyre, John Ewe etc.)  Not being tied to the original characters could give so much more scope to explore.

Arguably the writers are stretching this way as the books progress - the characters gradually feel more rounded and a lot less like their sitcommy counterparts, almost to the point the dialogue lifted from existing episodes feels like clunky fan service that interrupts the narrative. Hard to say if that'd be the case for someone not knowing the episodes by heart though.

[lauraxsynthesis]

There's yet another RD episode by episode podcast starting on Friday. The difference here is guest comedians. I'm looking forward to the Sooz Kempner one, and I imagine it might give the fandom a boost so that's a good thing. There's evidence on tiktok that a few GenZ kiddies have started getting into it.

https://bleedingcool.com/tv/red-dwarf-podcast-bigger-than-life-launches-on-december-15th/