Things that ruin a comedy show - jumping the shark thread

[jamiefairlie]

Definitely a bad sign is when a show becomes more interested in the main characters' romantic lives than in jokes. It's very hard to write romantic comedy that is romantic and funny and (hardest of all) believable, but once a show has created characters that people like, it's easy to fall back on having them fall in and out of love, as something that provides a constant plot motivation and everyone will be super-involved with that. But sustaining a "will they, won't they" relationship is really hard, and few shows are able to develop a relationship from first dating through marriage/living together, kids, etc. (OFAH lasted longer than most.)

On the other hand, it's definitely a case where things done well are good, things done badly are bad because e.g. Friends had the rom-com element right from series 1 with Ross and Rachel but initially it was very funny, and then it stopped being funny. There's also the risk, as with something like The Mindy Show, that if you're not involved in the relationship or think the guy's an asshole, you're not going to watch.

(Things that ruin a comedy show and things that turn you off a show you previously liked are slightly different topics, but this is all a matter of taste.)

Note: applies to long lived, once loved British Science Fiction time travel based shows also.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

Leave Goodnight Sweetheart alone!!

[Senior Baiano]

Rik and Ade ought to have given Richie from Bottom an attractive girlfriend

[Jerzy Bondov]

Somebody on the writing staff has had a baby and thinks there's a lot of funny stuff to be said about having a baby. Or, even worse, storylines about couples trying to conceive.

[mippy]

Feels like it's the equivalent of a band's second or third album turning out to be mostly songs about dealing with the music industry.

[BritishHobo]

I really like the tack that Not Going Out took - leapfrogging over the baby years, and then using the kids sparingly. Sometimes it feels like you only see them once or twice a series.

[turnstyle]

Somebody on the writing staff has had a baby and thinks there's a lot of funny stuff to be said about having a baby.

This continually narks me. You see it a lot with stand up comics too. Babies and kids are unfortunately, a huge well of source material, but it's rare that anyone ever has an original spin on it.

So you get comics who pre-baby had genuinely witty and original sets, now trotting out 30 minutes on how much stuff you have to take out with you when you've got a baby, or how a baby will always do a shit after you've changed its nappy. As a parent who has done all this before, it's basically the dull shit I have to listen to outside the school gates from the other parents while I'm patiently waiting for my kids to come out of school so I can get as far away as possible from these DULLARDS talking about their BORING AS FUCK kids.

Now imagine paying to see someone do this 'material' on stage, or even commit it to a TV sitcom.

Every comic always thinks they're the first to make these observations about babies and kids. They are not. 

[copa]

Alan Partridge getting his own TV show.
His character only works for me when he's losing; when he's not where he wants to be.

[Brundle-Fly]

Alan Partridge getting his own TV show.
His character only works for me when he's losing; when he's not where he wants to be.

Even KMKYWAP? Naa, gives him further to fall, more to lose.

[copa]

Even KMKYWAP? Naa, gives him further to fall, more to lose.

Neither of his TV shows worked for me.
It's an important part of his character but think I'd rather it was unseen.
So you can fill in the blanks.

[dissolute ocelot]

Babies ruin everything. When an actor gets pregnant at best there's an alien abduction or having to hide behind a lot of furniture, at worst a baby plot.

[Brother James]

Not necessarily 'ruining' - but always damaging: Under-estimating the importance of a particular character to the overall 'balance'/ feel of a show: Private Walker (Dad's Army), Wayne (Auf Wierdershen Pet), Mike (The Young Ones vs Filthy Rich & Catflap), Rimmer (Red Dwarf), Grandad (Only Fools & Horses), so many more that I can't recall right now ...

[Pink Gregory]

When a show starts being overly self-referential it's probably time to wind it up, I reckon.

I felt like Blackadder Goes Forth fell into this - Baldrick being stupid to the point of brain damage, the "thingier than a thing in a situation" joke stretched to absolute breaking point, surprisingly for a series about the army the class dynamic that characterised 2 and 3 seems to disappear, just a very 'what the viewer expects' series.

[kalowski]

Alan Partridge getting his own TV show.
His character only works for me when he's losing; when he's not where he wants to be.

Of course, of course, there have been one or two dissenting voices, the clever clog papers; Independent, Telegraph, Guardian, Observer, Mail on Sunday. They've been a bit sniffy. One review in particular caught my eye. Philip Parsons in The Times called this show "moribund". Well, I looked up moribund in my dictionary, and it said "Moribund, adjective, meaning about to die, or dying". I ask you "is this show about to die?"

No!

Thank you!. So, Mr Philip Parsons from behind the times. That proves that you are wrong. The show is very much alive, and live.

[non capisco]

Grandad (Only Fools & Horses)

Possible hot take - Uncle Albert was maybe not better than Grandad but certainly as good as him, and when Lennard Pearce died suddenly John Sullivan did a superb job at introducing Albert into proceedings as seamlessly as it was possible to do so in order for the dynamic to continue.

[Jockice]

Of course, of course, there have been one or two dissenting voices, the clever clog papers; Independent, Telegraph, Guardian, Observer, Mail on Sunday. They've been a bit sniffy. One review in particular caught my eye. Philip Parsons in The Times called this show "moribund". Well, I looked up moribund in my dictionary, and it said "Moribund, adjective, meaning about to die, or dying". I ask you "is this show about to die?"

No!

Thank you!. So, Mr Philip Parsons from behind the times. That proves that you are wrong. The show is very much alive, and live.

The 'Mike Taylor from TV Quick' bit before that is probably my favourite Partridge line of all time.

[Kankurette]

Have I mentioned jokes that just go on and on and on and are really dragged out? Because I hate them. Family Guy and Robot Chicken are both terrible for this. Like Peter and the rapist bull. We get it, the bull raped him, you don't need to go on and on about it.

[dead-ced-dead]

Babies ruin everything. When an actor gets pregnant at best there's an alien abduction or having to hide behind a lot of furniture, at worst a baby plot.

New Girl handles this well. Jess goes off for jury duty.

[Pink Gregory]

Have I mentioned jokes that just go on and on and on and are really dragged out? Because I hate them. Family Guy and Robot Chicken are both terrible for this. Like Peter and the rapist bull. We get it, the bull raped him, you don't need to go on and on about it.

I kind of hated Robot Chicken and yet watched most of it.  Don't really understand why.

[Kankurette]

Bitch Puddin' was fun at first but they just kept running the joke into the ground. They should have stopped with the special with the Smurf parodies.

[Brother James]

Possible hot take - Uncle Albert was maybe not better than Grandad but certainly as good as him, and when Lennard Pearce died suddenly John Sullivan did a superb job at introducing Albert into proceedings as seamlessly as it was possible to do so in order for the dynamic to continue.

I'll take that amendment. It's an illustration of the point, from a different angle (i.e. The dynamic was honoured).

[jamiefairlie]

Have I mentioned jokes that just go on and on and on and are really dragged out? Because I hate them.

Not a Stewart Lee fan then?

[Kankurette]

It depends with Lee. He's more bearable than Family Guy though.

[samadriel]

How can we be talking about The American Office and not bring up the arrival of Catherine Tate??

Catherine Tate showed up on the Office Ladies rewatch a few months back, and she just horrified me; she was dreadful, a terrible mismatch, and seemingly an attempt to replace Michael Scott with a sun-eclipsing massive performance. I preferred the previous solution of making Andy the manager (although Andy had been made a bit too pathetic by then -- you can see why they made Michael a capable salesman, as having the completely virtue-free Andy as manager does make him stick out like a sore thumb). Still, Tate hasn't made the show jump the shark for me yet; If she's still the boss in the final season I'll be dismayed, and I'm not looking forward to the inclusion of some guy from the camera crew, which everyone says really sucks.  This rewatch has shown me that The Office US stayed pretty damn good throughout its run; I'm worried about the imminent final season, but the show's already proven its worth.

[lazyhour]

Don't worry, from memory the camera guy is only in one or two episodes.

[badaids]

Alan Partridge getting his own TV show.
His character only works for me when he's losing; when he's not where he wants to be.

Yes, this rankles with me. In the Oasthouse, the most glaring example of this was his rapprochement with his grandchildren. This was a great source of comedy in Partridge, but not any longer. It was supposed to be heartwarming I guess but that's just not what Partridge is about.

[ajsmith2]

Catherine Tate showed up on the Office Ladies rewatch a few months back, and she just horrified me; she was dreadful, a terrible mismatch, and seemingly an attempt to replace Michael Scott with a sun-eclipsing massive performance. I preferred the previous solution of making Andy the manager (although Andy had been made a bit too pathetic by then -- you can see why they made Michael a capable salesman, as having the completely virtue-free Andy as manager does make him stick out like a sore thumb). Still, Tate hasn't made the show jump the shark for me yet; If she's still the boss in the final season I'll be dismayed, and I'm not looking forward to the inclusion of some guy from the camera crew, which everyone says really sucks.  This rewatch has shown me that The Office US stayed pretty damn good throughout its run; I'm worried about the imminent final season, but the show's already proven its worth.

Glad to see someone else that thinks the later (and ever Tate-r) seasons are still good. I admit Season 9 is the worst imo, but there's still a lot of gold in there.

[Rankersbo]

I felt like Blackadder Goes Forth fell into this - Baldrick being stupid to the point of brain damage, the "thingier than a thing in a situation" joke stretched to absolute breaking point, surprisingly for a series about the army the class dynamic that characterised 2 and 3 seems to disappear, just a very 'what the viewer expects' series.

I mean there are lots of recurring actors and characters. As well as Blackadder and Baldrick, Melchett, Flashhart and "Bob". George is a rehash of prince George (maybe a descendent from a love child in the same way Blackadder is). Darling is new.

The WWI dynamic was pretty much the class dynamics are thrown in chaos- you have middle class blokes like Blackadder and Darling who rise in the Army and find themselves unpleasantly in actual conflict, who make captain through sheer ability and cunning despite neither having an appetite for war. Melchett an upper class chinless wonder who finds himself in charge through the public school system and patronage, while other upper class idiots just sign up with the same level of stupidity as the common tommy. Maybe that dynamic didn't make its way into the plots as much as I remember?

[Gurke and Hare]

Alan Partridge getting his own TV show.
His character only works for me when he's losing; when he's not where he wants to be.

I think the question of whether he's winning when he has a TV show is an interesting one. Perhaps less so in This Time - he's clearly got better at presenting over the course of his career as you'd expect - but he doesn't give the impression of winning during KMKYWAP. He's hopelessly out of his depth, and never really seems to be having a good time at any point in it.

[DigForVictory]

See, I really like that Alan Partridge seems to be a good Grandad. I think the obvious thing would be to make him a shit one just like he was a shit Dad but it's more interesting to see that he's actually a good Grandparent and he gets on with his Grandchildren. Plenty of real like examples too of people who made much better Grandparents than they did Parents.

Plus you do get the hint he's doing it so that when he gets old he'll have someone to look after him so there's still some of the old Alan selfishness in there.