Do we take Bin-Laden up on his offer of a "truce"?

[swinny]

Old Osama has apparently offered a "truce" of kinds to European countries, saying Al-quaida and their allies will stop attacking European targets if they "stop attacking muslims" (ie, pull out of Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan etc)...the same deal doesnt apply to the US - who it would seem are bolloxed, in the eyes of the extremist muslim at least, no matter what they do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3627775.stm

So should European countries accept this offer in good faith that it can pave the way for a more peaceful world? Should we stand by our American "allies" against a common enemy? would you trust Osama Bin Laden as far as you can throw his camel? Would "giving in" to the truce let Osama and his ilk get away with their crimes?

...its a hot potato...here...catch!

[MojoJojo]

Yeah... it would be great.
Until of course Spain becomes a Muslim land... really, I don't see the incentive for them to stop attacking if Europe does withdrawl...

[Nearly Annually]

GORLS.


(Read the towely tosser's olive branch here.)

[MonkeyDrummer]

If I was Al Quaeda I'd push it further, I'd be like: 'right guys, ALL youve got to do is publicly condemn the assassination of Yassin and say that you fucked up with Iraq and we'll say no more - You dont have to actually do anything, besides make these public statements' - America would naturally respond with overwhelming force. And we would carry their guns.

[TJ]

It's a mistake to side with someone, or assume that they're siding with you, just because you happen to both be opposed to the same person.

[Purple Tentacle]

What happened on 11 September and 11 March are your goods returned to you, so that you know security is a necessity for all,"

Didn't his mother tell him that two wrongs don't make a right?

[hencole]

As if Osama could  stop terrorists working on his behalf even if he wanted them to. Also he might find it difficult seeing as he died along time ago.

[New World Order]

What happened on 11 September and 11 March are your goods returned to you, so that you know security is a necessity for all,"

Didn't his mother tell him that two wrongs don't make a right?

No, she told him that three wrongs makes a new world order.

http://www.breakfornews.com/sears.htm

All we need is a big enough disaster and we will all cry out for a world government and global "security", run by America.

Maybe im a conspiracy nutcase, I hope so too.

[sproggy]

I voted YES, but in the same way I would say yes to a Pikey scrote tarmaccing (?) my drive for £100, I'll probably regret it straight away.

I don't think OBL is the important man he thinks he is, there are too many splinter cells operating around the world, and they're all barking mad.  How do we negotiate with them?

[Mediocre Rich]

I voted No, because I don't believe for a minute that if we pulled out of everywhere tommorow and call open season on Israel for the Arab world that all the people who blow things up until they get their way will just dissapear.

My enemy's enemy is not my freind, he's my enemy and I reserve the right to tell him to go and fuck himself.

[Purple Tentacle]

I voted NO because, quite simply, you cannot cave in to terrorism.

Especially if they live in caves.

[The Region Legion]

I've been saying ever since 9/11 that if we stopped fucking about in the Middle East then we'd have nothing to worry about - and here's Osama essentially saying exactly that. So if we do that, problem solved.

My advice would be to do what he says but continue being prepared for terrorist attacks. We don't have any right to be there and it's our fault that we get threatened with terrorist attacks. If we just stopped pissing them off we wouldn't get people prepared to die for a cause.

[MarmiteCarpenter]

I've been saying ever since 9/11 that if we stopped fucking about in the Middle East then we'd have nothing to worry about - and here's Osama essentially saying exactly that. So if we do that, problem solved.

My advice would be to do what he says but continue being prepared for terrorist attacks. We don't have any right to be there and it's our fault that we get threatened with terrorist attacks. If we just stopped pissing them off we wouldn't get people prepared to die for a cause.

I agree. Most Europeans have been against meddling with Middle Eastern affairs, and I would think most still want to get out, truce or not. Now that OBL is offering a truce on top, I'd say it's the smart thing to do.

No, the enemy of my enemy isn't my friend, but this truce doesn't mean OBL is our friend by any stretch of the imagination. It just means we'll ignore him while he behaves, and come down on him like a ton of bricks if he doesn't.

I dread to think what would happen to our relationship with the US if we went with it though.

[untitled_london]

fuxk him, his milk & his cookies.
i want oil - lots of it, and i want it produced by slaves cheap.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Kind of unrelated,  but I was watching a satirical news show called 'Tough Crowd' on telly last night, which features four comedians giving their opinions on current affairs, and one of the regular guys (Jim Nrton: http://www.comedycentral.com/gallery/colinquinn/images/toughcrowd008.jpg) says "I really hate Iraqi people, they're scum, we should just kill them all" or words to that effect. I was genuinely shocked by this, especially as none of the guests or audience seemed bothered. I'm not big into the way a lot of Iraqi people live their lives, but that seemed a tad harsh.

As far as this question goes, I say no, and how anyone can trust what that man says is beyond me.

[Doctor Stamen]

If it is a serious offer, it's a clever move.  Jack Straw dismisses any possibility of a truce, then in a few months they blow up a few trains/planes/whatever and the government lose the next election on a wave of public emotion.  I doubt we'd have such as knee-jerk reaction in this country as they would in the States (which is why i'm certain they'll get another 11/9-style attack this year), but i'm still pretty certain Labour would be voted out if that were to happen.

Speaking of which, why the hell don't they just blow a massive hole in the M6 or M1?  A terrorist attack on a major motorway would fuck things up big style.  For a little while, anyway.

[sore bottom mum]

Apart from idiotic pride, I can't see any reason not to give in to his preposition. It will probably save a lot of lives on both sides... and Sadam's gone now. We shouldn't still be there anyway.

[butnut]

If it is a serious offer, it's a clever move.  Jack Straw dismisses any possibility of a truce, then in a few months they blow up a few trains/planes/whatever and the government lose the next election on a wave of public emotion.  I doubt we'd have such as knee-jerk reaction in this country as they would in the States (which is why i'm certain they'll get another 11/9-style attack this year), but i'm still pretty certain Labour would be voted out if that were to happen.

But who would win? Surely not the tories, who unless they become total whores to the voters, are possibly more pro-war than the Labour cabinet. A Liberal Democrat government? In my lifetime?

[Doctor Stamen]

But who would win? Surely not the tories, who unless they become total whores to the voters, are possibly more pro-war than the Labour cabinet. A Liberal Democrat government? In my lifetime?

The tories would probably see this as their only opportunity of getting back in power and do a complete u-turn.  Either that or some far-right party who'd go for the 'Burberry vote'.  Most people would probably still be too apathetic to vote because they're too busy watching 'Celebrity Arse Swap' on ITV1.

[untitled_london]

A terrorist attack on a major motorway would fuck things up big style

a) i'm guessing they would roll those big fuck off metal sheets over it within a few hours - slower traffic, but pretty much business as normal. two lane closures for a week or so - job done.

b) who cares about tarmac - they gotta make it poignant - i doubt you'll see many ppl throwing themselves out of windows from 80 odd stories up over a bit of tarmac. (if only for the logistics of finding 80 odd stories near a motorway)

c) a well-aimed jumbo is soooo much more fun (and dramatic) than dropping a bit of semtex out of a car window too.

[Capuchin]

If your enemy asks you to do something that you should be doing anyway, do you then refuse simply because your enemy said it?

Osama says don't smoke, it's bad for your health.

[ccab]

I find it impossible to disagree with anything in bin laden's statement. It's just as I've said elsewhere - this 'terrorism' is a response & retaliation for the huge suffering & injustice meted out on muslims by american foreign policy. If you believe the Muslims are out to destroy the West, you're falling for White House propaganda.

Ask yourself - why shouldn't we stop attacking Muslim countries? Why is bin laden wrong to say Western military action is also terrorism? How can you expect a proud people to suffer aggression & injustice WITHOUT retaliating?

[untitled_london]

If your enemy asks you to do something that you should be doing anyway, do you then refuse simply because your enemy said it?

Osama says don't smoke, it's bad for your health.

well he just bloody would say that wouldn't he. fucking heathen.

damn are there no depths he wont sink too. we need to support 'our' economy.......c'mon everyone spark up
:roll eyes:

[Neville Chamberlain]

You lot are fucking impossible. Bush says a few words and you leap on him on him for being a cynical money-grabbing, self-serving, imperialistic arsehole of the highest order (a sentiment which I happen to agree with by the way), and then the most disgustingly reactionary man on the planet and "leader" of "Al-Qaeda" offers a "truce", which is quite clearly nothing more than a cynical exploitation of the prevailing European sentiment, and you say "yeah cool right on what a guy let's do it".

Fuck the fucker I say.

[Alberon]

Bin Laden says he'll leave Europe alone if we stop 'attacking muslims'. Rather vague statement really. Could be interpreted in a lot of ways. A country could stop supporting America and still face attacks if it does anything that Al-Quaida might interpret as 'attacking muslims'.

It sounds like a crude attempt to split Europe and America. Despite the idiotic war in Iraq which has nothing to do with terrorism (or at least it didn't) the war on terror has to be fought. I think Bin Laden's call is partly the recognisation that Al-Quiada's reach will diminish as the West keeps up the pressure over the coming decades.

[Ghost of Troubled Joe]

I think it's the survival element, Jim- people just don't want to see a terrorist attack happen over here.

I don't think any kind of truce by Al Qaeda should be taken up though- Bin Laden's a murderous lying scum just the same as Bush, Blair etc. But I also don't want our government to be following the Bush administration so readily as they are now.

I think the moral of the story is that the sooner Bush, Blair and Bin Laden are all gone, the better.

[smoker]

as good as it sounds to create a truce with ozzie, you have to bear in mind that there are many other terrorist groups out there who haven't offered us a deal. what will they, and other disillusioned people think when they see the west capitulate to bin laden?
i agree we should stop killing people and manipulating their governments for our own ends, but the fact is we're too late to leave iraq or TWAT or israel / palestine now. if we pull out, chaos. if we stay, chaos on a lesser scale. we need to resolve these situations fairly, these messes that we have caused it's our responsibility to clear up, unfortunately bush and blair are going about it completley wrong but still...
we sort the current problems out, we try not to make further problems for ourselves, we stay vigilant and we don't give in to terrorists.

that is the best way forward imo

[Neville Chamberlain]

I find it impossible to disagree with anything in bin laden's statement.

This is the problem. I bet there are people throughout Europe nodding their heads in agreement saying "Blimey! This guy's got a point! Stick that Bush/Blair!" etc etc. The fact is, though, Osama bin Laden couldn't give a fuck about us Europeans. This is just his contribution to the massive propaganda war going on. What better way than to be appear to be in harmony with popular European sentiment? I'm glad it's been treated with the contempt it deserves.

Smoker wins the Jim Award for the Most Common-Sensical Statement.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Osama sounds like the most reasonable of the two of them, Bush just sounds like a CD full of badly spoken soundbites and retoric.

It's not as if Osama can just get on the blower to all the 'bad guys' and tell them to stop being naughty now is it? I dare say there are a few folks out there in Muslim countries who wouldn't mind seeing the back of him and his ilk, if they decide another 'terrorist attack' in one of the newly 'muslim friendly countries' is a move in that direction, then Al Queda are going to be the obvious culprits no matter how they respond and the whole fucking thing kicks off again.

It all boils down to people in power being wankers, no matter who they represent.

[Capuchin]

Bin Laden says he'll leave Europe alone if we stop 'attacking muslims'. Rather vague statement really. Could be interpreted in a lot of ways. A country could stop supporting America and still face attacks if it does anything that Al-Quaida might interpret as 'attacking muslims'.

It sounds like a crude attempt to split Europe and America. Despite the idiotic war in Iraq which has nothing to do with terrorism (or at least it didn't) the war on terror has to be fought. I think Bin Laden's call is partly the recognisation that Al-Quiada's reach will diminish as the West keeps up the pressure over the coming decades.

Yes, like the pressure kept on the Palestinians over the last few decades has stopped them attacking Israelis.

It's clear the war on Iraq is idiotic, but what about the one we had in Afghanistan? Has that helped our clamp down on terror, or have there been more attacks than since we invaded?