Yakuza series

[Mister Six]

Bit of a tip for @Pink Gregory and anyone who hasn't started Yakzua 5 yet: character levels are capped at 20 until the final chapter when you get to flit between characters and the cap is raised to 25. Unfortunately any experience you collect after you hit the level 20 cap apparently DOESN'T get kept over until the cap raise, so you'd do well to hold off on finishing up all the substories once you hit the cap. You might also want to focus on Haruka's schedule board to farm EXP and save her substories for later, if you're interested in maxing her out.

Anyway, I'm done with the Haruka and Akiyama chapter, and it's a really great little section. Haruka's dancing is a lovely change of pace, and trouncing T-Set felt grrreeat. Plus, Akiyama's even more fun to play as than he was in 4, and he's less of a sleazy arsehole to boot! Sadly he doesn't get his own side story, and the devs apparently didn't take that into account, so he's well below the level cap (at 14, I think) despite having all his substories and training missions complete. Hope I don't have to grind too much with him later.

And now I'm on to the Shinada chapter and the intro has some of the best direction and scripting so far. And he's such a loser, which is a great change after six games about hyper-confident tough guys. He's likeable, too, but I'm going to have to put off playing his chapter until later. His city is pleasingly grimy and gross looking, though, especially after the glitz of Sotenbori.

[Pink Gregory]

@Mister Six Yeah I have been grinding the taxi missions a bit, but at the same time I feel like it fits into the story quite well, like Kiryu's still going to work inbetween plot developments.  Been hitting everything pretty hard though and I'm not lacking anything fighting-wise so I might give it a rest.

Made sure to get my tiger drop though, you bet your ass I did.

[Mister Six]

Oh, play it however you like! I just think I'm probably going to have to grind a bit when I get Kiryu and Saejima back because I did all their available substories even after I'd hit the level cap. Or maybe not; I usually end up totally OP by the end of each Yakuza game, so perhaps this time the end boss will finally be a challenge.

[Spiteface]

Seeing as it's free this month, I've finally started playing LAD.

There's a bit where Ichiban and his mates go to a bar, and I'm sure the owner's model just reuses Kashiwagi's face (it's the scar), just with glasses and different hair.

This is the first RGG game since the PS2 original Yakuza where I'm hearing English voices, and it's... odd. I'm also too used to George Takei being a meme these days, so hearing him play a Patriarch is surreal.

The Turn-based RPG gameplay is something I'm still getting used to, but other than that, very much a Yakuza game.

[Thursday]

Seeing as it's free this month, I've finally started playing LAD.

There's a bit where Ichiban and his mates go to a bar, and I'm sure the owner's model just reuses Kashiwagi's face (it's the scar), just with glasses and different hair.

...

[Mister Six]

What's the name of the bar, @Spiteface?

[Spiteface]

Survive.

I'm guessing by Thursday's response there's more to it than reused assets...

[Mister Six]

The bar's name is a clue. :)

[Mister Six]

Shinada is such a fun character. After six games of stern super-alpha tough guys with unusual (for a regular person) motivations - honour, solving a parental murder, wanting to help people live their dreams etc - playing as a weaselly wastrel who just wants to shag about* and live a hassle-free life is a lovely change of pace. His intro in particular is very funny and we'll written. He does become a bit more of a tough guy in his substories, but I guess that's an inevitability given the sort of game this is.


* Also making him, I think, the first Yakuza protagonist who canonically gets their rocks off while you're playing as them.

[Thursday]

Shinada is good, although I do think it's a little tough ask from the game at that point, all the threads are starting to come together in this already very long game, and then it goes "So here's a guy you've never met before and a lot of stuff about baseball that you probably don't really care about."

It wins me over though, it makes sense with how big baseball is in Japan, and I really like the different vibe that Nagoya has as a city.

[Mister Six]

I'm absolutely appalling at the baseball in this, which is a bit frustrating after loving all of the sidestories so far, but hopefully once I'm in the swing of things - ho ho! - and have levelled up my abilities a bit, it won't be such a massive pain in the arse.

It does feel odd to make Shinada the focus at this point in the game, but it's nice getting a view of the yakuza that actually makes them look like frightening bastards, after spending so much time seeing them as either Le Funny Honourable Guys or Evil Men Who Get Beaten Up And Slink Away. Shinada can hold his own in a fight, but he won't beat the crap out of this one loan shark because he knows he's backed up by the fucking yakuza, who'll bury him in concrete if he does.

I do suspect that all these storylines will totally fail to weave together in a remotely convincing way, but it's been less of a ballache to follow so far than 4, and I'm grateful for that.

[Consignia]

I think Yakuza 0 dropping down to two protagonists, and subsequent games only having one (yeah, there's several in 7, but the others congregate around Kasuga), was an admission that'd they'd over stretched things a bit with 4 and definitely 5. Just a tad too ambitious, but it's what we love the Yakuza team for.

[Pink Gregory]

Yeah, I'm still on the first 5th of Y5 and I'm already looking forward to 6 and just having Kiryu again (and the Dragon engine!) but I'll admit it was a mercy after Y3 having the really quick levelling and upgrades that 4 and 5 have. 

Y4 had the right idea having Kiryu playable last.  He's the best choice first in Y5 for plot reasons but I'm not entirely sure it's the most compelling setting to have started with.  It feels like an intended mid-game lull put at the start.

Obviously I love this series but Y5 so far suffers a bit from feeling like a sequel to Y4 rather than a new instalment.  But that being said Kiwami 1, Kiwami 2, 3, 4 and 0 are all fairly distinct so with the remakes every game in order feels fresh rather than having to get to Y3 and being like 'this again...'

[Thursday]

I think Y5 handles things a lot better than 4, it does mean it's a very long game, but in 4 you've barely got a hold of each character before it feels like you're moving on.

Y0 I do think it's the best for it though, as 2 protagonists means they each have a lot more depth, but you're switching up a lot so it never gets boring. All the one's where your focused solely on Kiryu and he only has one fighting  style definitely feel a bit boring in comparison.

[Mister Six]

Yeah, I'm still on the first 5th of Y5 and I'm already looking forward to 6 and just having Kiryu again (and the Dragon engine!) but I'll admit it was a mercy after Y3 having the really quick levelling and upgrades that 4 and 5 have. 

Y4 had the right idea having Kiryu playable last.  He's the best choice first in Y5 for plot reasons but I'm not entirely sure it's the most compelling setting to have started with.  It feels like an intended mid-game lull put at the start.

Obviously I love this series but Y5 so far suffers a bit from feeling like a sequel to Y4 rather than a new instalment.  But that being said Kiwami 1, Kiwami 2, 3, 4 and 0 are all fairly distinct so with the remakes every game in order feels fresh rather than having to get to Y3 and being like 'this again...'

I dunno, I appreciate them mixing it up again by making Kiryu playable first this time. In 4 it felt like a happy homecoming, being able to take control of the Dragon of Dojima and his roster of built-in hardarse moves after playing so defensively as Tanimura (as much as I loved T-dogg's play style), but doing it again would have drained a lot of the excitement for me. I'm far more intrigued to get a brand new character for this final introduction, with a new play style and different weaknesses and advantages to learn.

I also thought that the beginning, while slow, was sufficiently intriguing - with questions about what had happened between Kiryu and Haruka, and all of the goofy business with the racers - that I never felt bored. If it had been Kiryu hanging with Haruka and the kids yet again, I think I would have been a lot less receptive.

As for a sequel to 4, I think you're right. I suspect that with 4 they had realised that Kiryu had basically run his course and were basically doing a backdoor pilot to try out other potential protagonists (the Japanese subtitle is even "The Successor to the Legend"), which is why that game has the least emotional engagement for Kiryu of any of them so far. Then they realised that they needed to give him a proper send-off, so they turned 4 into the start of a climactic trilogy (I believe the ending of 5, whatever it is, leads directly into 6).

In the end, I think the Kiryu saga seems to have worked out quite nicely, with an initial trilogy of 0, K1 and K2 (including Majima Saga), a sorbet in the form of 3, and then a final trilogy with 4-6.

However, I'm also a total fucking rube for this series, so possibly too easily pleased.

I think Yakuza 0 dropping down to two protagonists, and subsequent games only having one (yeah, there's several in 7, but the others congregate around Kasuga), was an admission that'd they'd over stretched things a bit with 4 and definitely 5. Just a tad too ambitious, but it's what we love the Yakuza team for.

Yeah, I agree with that. It's the smartest way to do multiple protagonists, too - alternating the characters and letting their stories build up a head of steam together, instead of repeatedly killing the momentum with each new character, then tying yourself in knots trying to make all the plot threads entwine at the end.

Right now, it's looking like 0 > K2 > 5 > K1 > 4 > 3. But it's a big drop-off after 4.

[Mister Six]

Done with Shinada and now in the final chapter, as the protagonists slowly make their way into Tokyo and their stories weave together. Unlocking the 25-level cap requires you to simultaneously fight two very tough guys, which was a challenge as Kiryu and will probably be headbangingly frustrating as Shinada.

Shinny's chapter was my favourite, I think, partly because of the novelty but also because he's just a really likeable character - a sleazy loser who's still basically a good guy. His chapter also revolves around a fun conceit, but I'll hold off on talking about that to avoid spoiling anything.

I will advise anyone planning to do his side story to do all of the coach training first, though, as it makes the whole thing MUCH easier. Also note that some of the side story missions cannot be retried if you fail (although the game points this out and there's a save point outside the batting centre, which I'm grateful for).

[Mister Six]

Finished up Yakuza 5 last night. It's got a bad reputation among a lot of fans, particularly with regard to its plot, but I honestly don't understand why. Yeah, there's a fair bit of coincidence and contrivance, but that's pretty much the norm for a Yakuza game, and compared to the

Spoiler alert

rubber bullets twist

[close]

and mad contortions of Yakuza 4, this one is practically The Godfather. It's still not in the same league as 0 - I think that will be the refrain for Yakuza games in perpetuity now - but it's thematically coherent, logical (within the mad cartoon reality of the series) and emotionally satisfying for the most part. It's probably the most grounded entry since 0, actually, at least in terms of the main storyline. And I really like the neat inversion of the usual Yakuza plot twists, with

Spoiler alert

the obvious baddies actually turning out to be - well, if not goodies, then at least not real antagonists or particularly malevolent.

[close]

I also really appreciated the climax.

Spoiler alert

Whereas 4 struggled to get everyone into the same place for a four-way showdown and single big ending cutscene, 5 sensibly splits the team up and lets each of them get their own little ending before moving on to the next character's final fight. It's also surprisingly sweet, and I appreciated that all of the big baddies survived the game (albeit not for very long in one case, by the looks of things), instead of having to be shot from off-camera by a bigger villain, or sacrificing themselves Nishki/Mine style. Watching Baba, Shinada and the prison lads just chilling out and enjoying Haruka's show was great.

I will admit, I would understand if T-Set wanted to throttle Haruka though. Selfish little monster. Didn't even wait till the end of the concert! And Kiryu's ending felt like a slightly more downbeat retread of 3. I liked what seemed to be a bit of intentional ambiguity in the post-credits bit though; was that Haruka there, or was he hallucinating? If it was her, how did she find him - and where were her footprints in the snow?

[close]

The only downer in terms of the structure is that it means the Coliseum isn't open until the last part of the last chapter, by which point I just wanted to wrap up the story. Maybe that's why the Victory Road is so prominent - they had to trail the Coliseum really hard to encourage players to actually bother with it. Didn't work with me though. I guess that's what Premium Adventure is for, eh? That and the alternative costume with Kiryu's arse hanging out.

Gameplay-wise, it really feels like a return to the level of 0-K2, after a dip with 3 and gradual improvement with 4. Makes me very suspicious of those people who reckon the PS2 Yakuza and Yakuza 2 games are superior to their Kiwami remakes. Pretty much everything I tried in this game was at least entertaining, right down to stuff like the noodle-serving minigame that I never bothered with again. Mind you, there's quite a lot I didn't do; I couldn't be arsed with Akiyama's mission to save his club because the hostess sections bore me, and I didn't even try Saejima's snowball fights or Shinada's chicken races. God save anyone who tries to get 100% completion.

Going to give it a bit of a rest before I play 6, although I'm itching to see what Ichiban is like. Probably going to wait till the November sales for Judgment and the January sales for Like A Dragon. But we'll see how long my addiction can be kept at bay. I've still got the Fist of the North Star game, I guess!

[Thursday]

Glad you enjoyed it, it's my favorite after 0.

Spoiler alert

I think the biggest issue I had with the story was the reveal of Aizawa, which considering the length of the game, the last time you saw him was probably about 60 hours ago at the time just left me with a feeling of "Huh?"

It makes sense, I just think they could have done a better job keeping that plate spinning, but I think the structure is such that you spend so long with other characters in their mostly unrelated plots that it would be hard to do.

But I love it for being so all encompassing of just about everything about Japan and it's people.

Kiryu's taxi driver means you have all those skits with talking to his passengers, and all his co-workers. As Saejima, the prison section is a bit of a rehash, but even in that you've got some likeable characters, then you're off with people who live in the mountains who hunt as a means of survival, and then after Sapporo you're teen girl trying to be an idol exploring, all the seedy and corrupt issues of that industry, and then you've still got Shinada's story of a man who should have been a baseball star, struggling to get even a few yen together. Sure it's in the cartoon Yakuza way, but I love that a video game story takes you to such drastically different places, and explores all these people's lives with empathy.

[close]

[Mister Six]

Oh yeah,

Spoiler alert

the Aizawa reveal totally threw me too, to the point that I had to pause the cutscene to look up what was going on. There could have been a flashback to Daigo talking to Aizawa at the end of Shinada's chapter or something, as a reminder that he even existed. But I think at least one other appearance would have been necessary. Maybe another flashback when Shinada was talking to Aizawa's mate, whom he fought in the Coliseum. I dunno, something like that.

[close]

But as problems go, it's a relatively small one, especially compared with 4, which I liked a lot but was even more full of "Wait, who's that guy and what's his deal again?" moments.

And as you say, there's a lot of fun in seeing so many facets of Japan. Particularly seeing the properly unsavoury side of Japan's red light district through Shinada's eyes, rather than through the aloof and borderline asexual Kiryu and Saejima. Nagoya - at least the red light district, if not the underutilised park/stage area - seems properly grotty and grim in a way that Kamurocho doesn't, at least not any more by this point.

[Mister Six]

Oh! The only other thing I really didn't like was the way the game spammed pedestrians around bottlenecks like the right-hand exit of the park in Sotonbori, making it a battle just to walk six feet.

[letsgobrian]

seems properly grotty and grim in a way that Kamurocho doesn't, at least not any more by this point.

Wait until you see how gentrified Kamurocho is in 6.

[Mister Six]

I'm already dreading seeing Don Quixote turned into a police station.

[Pink Gregory]

Just finishing off Kiryu in Y5, maybe I'm just a bit bored of the blankness of Nagasugai but I'm a bit underwhelmed by how things developed from the strong start (probably worth spoilering but it's all standard)

Spoiler alert

Kiryu actually having his cover, and the two overbearing Tojo boys constantly threatening to blow it, having Mayumi be spying on him, these are all quite tense developments; but he seems to just kind of take them all in his stride and just throws off Suzuki without much bother?  You don't really get the inevitability of Kiryu returning to shore up the Tojo explored in much sense, he just kind of goes along with it.  Think it dropped a bit for me when you go and storm the Yamagasa family stronghold, just felt like a retread really.  Plus Aoyama and Watase are such nothings...

[close]

Looking forward to Saejima anyway.

EDIT - I liked the chapter end enough, though I maintain there was a dip.

[Pink Gregory]

I sort of wish that it felt intentional?  Playing all this against Shinada's bit in which you're invited to consider that the Yakuza might just be a bunch of violent meatheads who like to pretend that have a lofty protocol for being violent meatheads.

[Pink Gregory]

that being said I can vibe with the ridiculous mass brawls because of the idea of so many of them being little more than suited punks who can't actually brawl their way out of a paper bag.

[Mister Six]

Speaking of, why didn't Saejima get another mass brawl before the end of the game? Kiryu has at least two fights where it's him Vs 100,000 goons, but the dude whose moveset revolves around slamming people into other people doesn't. Baffling.

[Pink Gregory]

Quite glad of the visual upgrade, Saejima's face is much improved, bit softer somehow.

See, already I like this, sad and introspective Majima and kind of stoic/oblivious Saejima, great double act.

[Mister Six]

@Pink Gregory - hoover up Saejima's side missions in that early Kamurocho bit when you can, because once you progress the main story he won't be back there for a bit.

[Pink Gregory]

@Pink Gregory - hoover up Saejima's side missions in that early Kamurocho bit when you can, because once you progress the main story he won't be back there for a bit.

Didn't think there would be any but thanks for letting me know!

[Thursday]

Quite glad of the visual upgrade, Saejima's face is much improved, bit softer somehow.

See, already I like this, sad and introspective Majima and kind of stoic/oblivious Saejima, great double act.

Also really want to try the burnt bbq tripe