FUCKDOWN, U.S.A.

[Fambo Number Mive]

White House Press Secretary says "We're not going to lock down our economy or our schools.We are not going back. We are not turning back the clock" but even this Trumpian response isn't enough for Rand Paul, who claims he will introduce amendments to defund any govt agency that seeks to enforce CDC guidelines, including schools:

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1424553962116718595

[Ferris]

The thing I have found about Americans (or certain ones, anyway) is a radical devotion to ideas and nebulous concepts ahead of actual, tangible real lives.

Because some old dead slave-owners wrote an amendment in a specific way, we must adhere to it to the letter without any deviation or attempt to mollify the rules in even if that means children are regularly massacred in schools with rifles. We must attempt to defund public services if they make people wear masks - some pensioners may die gasping for air on ventilators but that is how we know we are truly free. Intervention in our healthcare system is an unconscionable government overreach and infringement on the idea of a free market. People may live longer, better, happier lives free from bankruptcy, but at what cost? The idea of "life" is more important than a woman getting an abortion because of her actual, real, right-in-front-of-you quality of existence and the care she can provide. Fuck common sense, laws are laws and we can't change them (well we could but err... we won't).

It is a very strange mindset. I'm sure even Paul would acknowledge his amendment will get people killed (and at best would take money away from vital public infrastructure for no real reason), but that it is a price worth paying in order to stay ideologically pure to the idea of freedom or some such shit.

I largely like the US whenever I am there (as a white middle class man with a nice accent) and I have American friends and colleagues who are great (although they are the ones that have moved to Canada so draw your own conclusions), but at times it is a very, deeply strange place. I'm guessing it is something to do with the prevalence of religion which sort of requires adherence to "rules" and ethical purity above all else and that bleeds over into politics.

Anyway, Abbot and DeSantis[nb]who's on first![/nb] are refusing to back down and change their executive orders denying anyone from imposing their own mask mandates. People will die, but that is the cost of freedom.

[jamiefairlie]

It is the religion thing. Take a similar demographic slice of folks from Canada, the UK and the US, and religion is the biggest difference. It always trips me up as I assume most people like me are aetheists, but not in the US.

[Zetetic]

I suspect that's treating religion, religious belief, and religious adherence as magical external causes rather than things that are themselves the product of material conditions and other prevailing ideological commitments. All tied up with the visibility and reliability of the state (including in some of the ways that Ferris gestures at, of course).

[Ferris]

I suspect that's treating religion, religious belief, and religious adherence as magical external causes rather than things that are themselves the product of material conditions and other prevailing ideological commitments. All tied up with the visibility and reliability of the state (including in some of the ways that Ferris gestures at, of course).

It is to some extent, but it is the only thing I can think of that can rationalize the logic of choosing hypothetical ethical purity over quality of life for actual human beings, and doing it knowingly.

The fact that religious adherence and rule-following is drummed into people when very young and it tends to guide them in all aspects of life (and that this kind of political thinking seems to largely be the preserve of "conservative (read: religious) people) bolsters my suspicions but who knows. It is a curiously American way of thinking though.

[Zetetic]

It is to some extent, but it is the only thing I can think of that can rationalize the logic of choosing hypothetical ethical purity over quality of life for actual human beings, and doing it knowingly.

Meant for the Corbyn thread?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The thing I have found about Americans (or certain ones, anyway) is a radical devotion to ideas and nebulous concepts ahead of actual, tangible real lives.

Religion has been mentioned but we are also talking about a cradle of unfettered capitalism and decisions being transactional and about choice and desire rather than logic and rationality.

When a society is willing to allow an uncontested truth, even an inconvenient one, it is drastically healthier, just as an alcoholic who admits they have a problem is better able to take the appropriate steps to manage their health.

Once a political group plants the idea that nothing is actually completely verifiably true so long as a talking head comes on to say it isn't, that doubt creates the space for people to just stubbornly continue believing whatever suits them.

The idea is to move society into being dulled, herded and fucked over by their own stupid irrational impulses, permanently unhappy but never directing it at the right target.

[Ferris]

I think that's a different (but related) issue. It's probably more to do with disingenuous arguments of ethical absolutism being deployed to attack things they disagree with for more odious reasons, propped up by a political base who are religious to the point of not being concerned whether something makes sense or not.

"I think covid is a hoax". Hmm that sounds bad, ok maybe I'll just attack the restrictions and pretend that it's really the ideal of liberty that is motivating me.

Anyway, 235k cases today. I think we'll be over 350k by end of week.

[Fambo Number Mive]

This video is really bleak. Anti-mask parents threatening pro-mask parents in America. Police (well, the sherrif's department) not doing anything about a man threatening someone in a car

"If you vote for this, we will come for you, in a non-violent way" another person opposed to masks in schools shouts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-58196564

[Fambo Number Mive]

The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday temporarily blocked mask mandates in Dallas and Bexar counties, marking a pivotal moment in the showdown between state and local government as coronavirus cases and hospitalizations surge in Texas...

n a petition for a writ of mandamus to the Texas Supreme Court, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton's office said the Texas Disaster Act of 1975 gives the governor power to act as the "'commander in chief' of the state's response to a disaster. Attorneys representing cities and counties that have sued Abbott over his executive order have argued that his orders should not supersede local orders.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/15/texas-coronavirus-supreme-court-school-mask-mandate/

Utterly terrifying. The Texas state government taking local government to court because local government want to do something to keep children and teachers safe.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Louisiana's attorney general has posted sample letters on his office's Facebook page for those looking to get around the governor's mask rules, according to the Tampa Bay Times.

Meanwhile, in Orlando residents are being told to stop washing their cars and lawns to conserve water, as supplies of liquid oxygen that are usually used to treat water are being diverted to hospitals for COVID patients:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/08/20/orlando-mayor-urges-water-limits-because-of-covid-19-surge/

[JamesTC]

Bet all the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers start turning on all their taps. MUH FREEDUMS!!!

[Ferris]

Louisiana's attorney general has posted sample letters on his office's Facebook page for those looking to get around the governor's mask rules, according to the Tampa Bay Times.

Meanwhile, in Orlando residents are being told to stop washing their cars and lawns to conserve water, as supplies of liquid oxygen that are usually used to treat water are being diverted to hospitals for COVID patients:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/08/20/orlando-mayor-urges-water-limits-because-of-covid-19-surge/

Hmm having a normal one then.

[Uncle TechTip]

Why don't we just leave the anti vaxxers to it. Just stop talking about it and let nature take its course. I for one would not miss a single one of these people. Anti vax, anti human.

[jamiefairlie]

Why don't we just leave the anti vaxxers to it. Just stop talking about it and let nature take its course. I for one would not miss a single one of these people. Anti vax, anti human.

Because they incubate and spread the virus, giving it more opportunity to evolve into deadlier forms. Also even vaccinated people can and do get infected and sick and spread the virus. We don't know yet even how long vaccination is effective for.

[Fambo Number Mive]

In the latest political volley in Arizona over COVID-19 mask mandates, Gov. Doug Ducey is creating two grant programs that would provide funds to families and school districts that reject mask mandates.

Those measures come amid growing pushback against a state law that prohibits mask mandates in Arizona schools.

In a series of news releases Tuesday, the Governor's Office announced extra money for families affected by mask mandates, as well as a grant program only school districts that "follow all state laws" would be eligible for.

In both cases, districts with mask mandates could be affected — either because they could be ineligible for the district grants or if families use the funding to leave their district...

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona-education/2021/08/17/arizona-gov-doug-ducey-offers-incentives-reject-mask-mandates/8169357002/

Just disgusting.

[Ferris]

Tell me you're insane without telling me you're insane

[JamesTC]

Has that vaccine been approved by the FDA?

[monkfromhavana]

I think they should test its efficacy of christ's blood by getting these people in for breakfast and spreading a thick layer of arsenic on their toast and asking them to eat it.

If they eat it, we'll see how well it works (of course if it doesn't work the option could be that they were a "bad person" and roll in the next person).

If they don't eat it, they will either have to get the COVID vax or suffer eternal damnation for rejecting christ.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/23/fda-horse-message-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus

😂😂😂

[Ferris]

I saw this, mad stuff. Apparently 70% of calls to Mississippi's poison control line are people taking ivermectin.

The other thing I've noticed that's mad is the lack of policing facebook is doing around this stuff. I haven't used it in years so I'm hardly in the loop, but the little "warning this may or may not be true" tag thing they stick on stuff is laughable. I didn't notice it until I saw quite a few of these notices online screenshotted from facebook and realized that was their gesture towards moderation.

[JamesTC]

Disappointed that only a few people have been convinced to drink their own piss by that sort of misinformation. Sure using horse and cow dewormer is funny but it isn't drinking piss funny.

[Dex Sawash]

 I've been taking thatt for years

[Dog Botherer]

grandson's pee sometimes helps

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

grandson's pee sometimes helps

Peedo

[Ferris]

grandson's pee sometimes helps

Only under age 5, as I understand it.

[Psybro]

I saw this, mad stuff. Apparently 70% of calls to Mississippi's poison control line are people taking ivermectin.

The other thing I've noticed that's mad is the lack of policing facebook is doing around this stuff. I haven't used it in years so I'm hardly in the loop, but the little "warning this may or may not be true" tag thing they stick on stuff is laughable. I didn't notice it until I saw quite a few of these notices online screenshotted from facebook and realized that was their gesture towards moderation.

I've been seeing "But what about Ivermectin?" replies sitting ignored under serious scientists Tweets for a year now.  You could tell there was nothing to it because the only people who ever mentioned it were reply guys.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I think we've mentioned this on here before, but it's interesting how people opposed to taking the vaccine and/or wearing masks no matter how much science in support you show them will often happily believe that taking things like Ivermectin to help with covid is a good idea based on a Facebook post their aunt's cousin shared or something.

I think that people pointing out to these people the contradiction in this could be a good way to get some anti-mask/anti-vax people to rethink.

[Zetetic]

I think through the lens of "who do you trust", there's not much of a contradiction.

Does make me wonder whether 'we' should be trying harder to hijack the mechanisms currently spreading Ivermectin, but plenty of dreadful consequences lie in that direction.

[Ferris]

I've been seeing "But what about Ivermectin?" replies sitting ignored under serious scientists Tweets for a year now.  You could tell there was nothing to it because the only people who ever mentioned it were reply guys.

I don't use Twitter so I miss this stuff until it becomes more mainstream, interesting to know it's been out there for a while.

Apparently a discredited study in Egypt is how it became widespread, so it's not as mad as "haha idiots taking animal dewormer for no reason!" but only about one absurdity notch above that[nb]because if you accept the reasoning that a study from nearly 18 months shows it might work but now actually no we don't think it does, why are you so averse to getting a vaccine that multiple studies have shown is effective? I think the answer is "big pharma conspiracy, but globally across multiple different regimes and private corporations" which is bonkers, sorry.[/nb].

I think through the lens of "who do you trust", there's not much of a contradiction.

Does make me wonder whether 'we' should be trying harder to hijack the mechanisms currently spreading Ivermectin, but plenty of dreadful consequences lie in that direction.

Completely agree.

If your starting point is "the government is out to get me, and will harm me if they can, and they single handedly created vaccines" then cousin Merle's facebook bleatings about horse dewormer seem like radical countercultural truthbombs rather than the wailing of the perma-beleaguered.

It's reinforced by the echo chamber of media figures "just asking questions" too, which doesn't help. Phil Valentine was a big proponent of alternative therapies, I wonder what happened to him.