Old Doctor Who - Part 4

[purlieu]

In the audio version of Oh No It Isn't,  Wolsey is played by Nicholas Courtney

Oh, I can totally hear that!

Their very first release, that one, back in 1998 - a whole year before they got the rights to use Doctor Who.

Yes, it's going to be an interesting introduction to the Big Finish range, listening to stories I've already read (sometimes originally in Doctor Who format). Still, it must be done. I'm going to try and spread them out so I get to the first Eighth Doctor story (Storm Warning) after I finish reading The Gallifrey Chronicles (or maybe The Infinity Doctors, which I'm saving to last due to its ambiguity). If I keep my current rate of a book a day up that'll be at some point in November...

[purlieu]

Rip Tide by Louise Cooper

Probably the longest Telos novella I've read, but still a swift read. An unexplained death and illness in a Cornish village, a body in the sea and a mysterious journalist. It's fairly typical Who fare, but it subverts it by being all about character: the threat is dispensed with easily, and the rescue of a stranded alien is the main focus. One-off companion Nina is a believable teenager: just bratty enough without being especially irritating. She and the Doctor work well together. A lot of the book is given over to creating a believable setting, and the village is portrayed wonderfully. And then it's all over. A lovely little book with a lot of heart.

Next time on Doctor Who... back to Benny.

[Bad Ambassador]

There's one on ebay now for a tenner.

Not any more there isn't. *wink*

[purlieu]

Bernice Summerfield and the Space Museum Dragons' Wrath by Justin Richards

"There are two sides to everything, even death," Braxiatel said quietly. "The peaceful all embracing silence of the aftermath, and the gut-tearing agony of incision as the laserknife rips through the stomach, cauterizing as it goes so the scars seem like old trophies of survival rather than the trappings of murder."
Benny grimaced. "What a long sentence."

Ok, so dragons fall into a similar category as vampires for me: mythical beings I truly cannot be arsed with. So I was very happy to discover this book is about a statue of a dragon, rather than an actual fire-breathing lizard. Benny and some other archaeologists and historians from her university are invited to excavate a planet which could hold the key to a warlord's birthright and thus domination over a sector of space. But when they find a relic that ties his bloodline to a former empire, things aren't quite what they seem. Irving Braxiatel guest stars.
It's actually an unusually structured book, in that it feels more like a six part serial than a novel. There's a hint of a three-act structure, but it's disguised by numerous captures and escapes, episode-length side-jaunts, plenty of twists and turns and a generally unpredictable narrative thrust. There are plenty of mysteries that lead to more mysteries, and it's a real page-turner. A lot of the secrets are held by the mysterious Knights of Jeneve, originally a Geneva-based order of knowledge which has turned into a semi-mythical race of space-faring templars who not only underpin the story, but also led to the events of the first novel. Braxiatel suspects they're a lot shadier than we already expect, suggesting they'll be turning up in later books. Which is good, as I do enjoy serialised storytelling.
Characters are a mixed bunch: Webbe and Reddik are intriguing, ambiguous individuals who add a lot more to the plot than its central villain Nusek, who makes Ainley's Master seem subtle and calculating. The big downside is, surprisingly, Braxiatel. He's a very good character, but effectively a Doctor surrogate. There's more than a touch of Four and Seven in him, and he steals every scene he's in, but that's the problem: he's not the central character, yet he dominates, even doing most of the lifting with the plot itself. Benny, at times, feels like a secondary character.
On the whole, though, pretty good.

Next time on Doctor Who... another Telos novella.

[purlieu]

The Eye of the Tyger by Survivor Paul McAuley.

There've been a couple of really good ones, but on the whole I think I could probably have done without the Telos novellas. They mostly tend to experiment, and maybe try and come across as 'proper' books rather than TV tie-ins, but that tends to result in stuff like this. I don't have a problem with Doctor-lite stories, but when there's no companion and so you're getting the story from a character you've never met, and one who is fairly forgettable and makes some bizarre decisions, it's just really tedious. A man absorbs some nanobots that start to turn him into a tiger-man-creature, the Doctor tries to save him but accidentally lands on a colony ship that's having a civil war, one that can only be saved by a lion-man-creature in a coma. It's all very, very dull.

Next time on Doctor Who... back to Benny. Again.

[purlieu]

Beyond the Sun by Matthew Jones

Beyond the Sun is a book about ideas, I suppose. It's about a society which has grown up without possessions, without the need or ability to sexually reproduce, with numerous species but no outsiders, living in complete equality with no official employment, no romantic relationships, no money, no concept of rules or crime. And it's only able to exist because it's a completely artificial society. What happens when a race of aliens comes to invade and occupy such a culture? What happens when Benny and two students - a shy, awkward boy firmly in the closet, and a cynical goth girl - come to the planet to rescue Benny's ex husband? What happens when these people discover that the occupying aliens are there to retrieve something stolen from them: the very thing that manufactured such a utopia? And what do these things have to say about freedom, and social structures, laws, love and sex?
It's all very interesting stuff, but my God I wish it was explored by means of a good story. There are brief moments of excitement where things seem to progress, something gets revealed, or we see the side-plot of this all apparently leading to a huge, galaxy-destroying weapon. But most of it is just exceptionally dull. Emile and Tameka are ok characters, but for the most part they can be summed up in the way I did above. They might flourish with more development and a different writer. The main characters go from one place to another to another to another in a sort of plodding quest that feels like it's come from the pen of Christopher Bulis. The aliens, the Sunless, are hopelessly underwritten and staggeringly unoriginal: they're super-strong humanoid who appear to have no emotions, enforce conformity and sleep in hive-like formations - I spent half the book waiting for the reveal that they were some offshoot of the Cybermen. And, basically, the book is really bleak. Very little of the wit and joy present in the previous two books is evident. Who on Earth thinks "A Bernice Summerfield book? Cool, I'll make it relentlessly bleak!" Still, the three main characters take a break in the middle to sing disco songs dressed as drag queens, so, that's... something. At the end of it, comparatively little is resolved. The characters kind of assume the occupying forces will probably leave and life on the planet will be different. The End. Hmm.
So yes, good ideas, but not very well executed.

Next time on Doctor Who... back to the EDAs at last!

[Deanjam]

Bought this today. Decided to update my Troughton DVDs with their bluray releases as it looks like there won't be a bluray set for quite a while.

[daf]

I went with the steelbook - though, for once, I think the regular edition got the better artwork!

Although the 'felt-tip on a balloon' heads and Thunderbirds arm movements look a bit wonky, I think, with a bit of tweaking, this motion capture method of animation has a lot of potential to get the 'problem' stories done without breaking the budget - so we may get the 1-6 season box sets a bit sooner than we thought.

Oddly, I thought the black and white 4x3 version worked better than the one in colour - probably as they applied a bit more grain to it, which disguised the CGI-ness of it.

[Deanjam]

I usually watch the b&w versions anyway, as that feels right. And obviously most of this serial will be monochrome anyway. Usually only watch the colour versions when I fancy a change.

[JamesTC]

I thought the animation was fine. Has some advantages over the BBC America animations albeit a fair few more disadvantages too. With a bit of work, it will hopefully be good enough to tell a whole story. If they can work on the arm and general movement, the facial expressions and the detail on the hair then it could really be something good.

I would like to see them tackle The Crusade next as another test release and then perhaps The Underwater Menace. If they all work out then they can move on to the big problematic stories like The Highlanders, Marco Polo or The Daleks' Master Plan whilst the two BBC America teams manage one a year each.

[daf]

I don't mind if they leave it till last, but I hope they get The Myth Makers done at some point - it really deserves a wider audience. Like The Romans it's a proper funny one - and they could really go to town with the Trojan horse!

[JamesTC]

The short Web interview on the animation talks about how it is a test for a new style of animation which will open up the possibility of all stories being done (and pictures of Marco Polo, The Crusades and The Daleks' Master Plan appear on the screen while saying this). It definitely feels like all of them will get done over the next few years now.

[Replies From View]

I thought the animation was fine. Has some advantages over the BBC America animations albeit a fair few more disadvantages too. With a bit of work, it will hopefully be good enough to tell a whole story. If they can work on the arm and general movement, the facial expressions and the detail on the hair then it could really be something good.

Why didn't they consider making it good in the first place?

This is the double-dip release of this story.  The special edition one, 8 years after the bare bones release.  Yes it's testing a new animation method, but it's also most likely the last release of this story until they find the real version of episode 3.


I'm incredibly forgiving of all the animated releases, but there are many times I think could you please just include your work-in-progress version as a bonus feature, and actually create a finished version within the time you've got.


Best animated episodes are still the ones for The Invasion done by Cosgrove Hall.

[Malcy]

Best animated episodes are still the ones for The Invasion done by Cosgrove Hall.

Yeah it's a shame they didn't do more.

[daf]

Too expensive I think. I seem to remember it only got made in the first place thanks to some spare money that wasn't used on another Doctor Who project.

Hang on, let me google it . . . Here we go -

the animation had been paid for by an earlier surplus in the Doctor Who website budget, allowing it to be used in the DVD release as a test for the concept, at no extra cost. Despite the DVD's success, the sales were not high enough to offset the animation cost for any future collaboration.

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Animated_episode

[Replies From View]

Well then have more surpluses next time

[Midas]

You could build mountains out of all the branded tat BBC Worldwide has sold over the years, surely at this point they've rinsed enough money out of their viewers to be able to endure a couple of minor losses? Why won't the BBC try commissioning one of the bigger animations for TV broadcast? It would be a bit niche, but what's the point of the BBC if they basically operate like any other commercial entity? Why not offset the cost by reinvesting the salary they pay Gregg Wallace, to produce something that isn't awful?

Erm, actually I think you'll find BBC Worldwide is now called BBC Studios, idiot!

Not interested.

And furthermore, when you examine serials like The Crusade and The Highlanders finely, you'll see that many of these stories are actually impossible to animate. Studio Ghibli wouldn't touch them with a barge-pole, probably, but they don't need to worry 'cos they've shut down. You know nothing!

There's nowt inherently "impossible" about drawing or animating many different costumes or locations really, it just makes it difficult to cut corners, which all the animations produced so far have had to exploit because none of them have been given the time or money they need.

But the tartan! The TARTAN!

Mate, I could draw tartan with my eyes shut. Just a load of lines. Why must everything be so cheap and shoddy? The programme's one of the BBC's biggest money-makers.

Answered your own question, mate.

I did like the one by Cosgrove Hall though.

[JamesTC]

I liked The Moonbase animation the most.

[daf]

Funnily enough, that's the only bit of Classic Who my Matt Smith-obsessed nephew has watched (a couple of years ago) - and that's only because it was animated. He had zero interest in sticking around for the live action stuff, but loved the "cartoon"!

[jamiefairlie]

Funnily enough, that's the only bit of Classic Who my Matt Smith-obsessed nephew has watched (a couple of years ago) - and that's only because it was animated. He had zero interest in sticking around for the live action stuff, but loved the "cartoon"!

That makes me unjustifiably angry 😡

[Poison To The Mind]

I thought the animation was fine. Has some advantages over the BBC America animations albeit a fair few more disadvantages too. With a bit of work, it will hopefully be good enough to tell a whole story. If they can work on the arm and general movement, the facial expressions and the detail on the hair then it could really be something good.

I would like to see them tackle The Crusade next as another test release and then perhaps The Underwater Menace. If they all work out then they can move on to the big problematic stories like The Highlanders, Marco Polo or The Daleks' Master Plan whilst the two BBC America teams manage one a year each.

almost 100% sure there are no "BBC America teams" btw



(also the Cosgrove Hall "team" had like 40 decades of experience and a professional budget vs literally none (or either) for most of the subsequent adaptations, and still couldn't manage to get the costumes right.)

[JamesTC]

almost 100% sure there are no "BBC America teams" btw

Power was part funded by BBC America. Shada, Macra, Faceless Ones, Fury and Evil of the Daleks are all majority funded by BBC America. This is the reason they animate in full colour and widescreen including any existing episodes. BBC America fund it to broadcast in America. The DVD budget only covers a maximum of two episodes being animated.

[Bad Ambassador]

Power was part funded by BBC America. Shada, Macra, Faceless Ones, Fury and Evil of the Daleks are all majority funded by BBC America. This is the reason they animate in full colour and widescreen including any existing episodes. BBC America fund it to broadcast in America. The DVD budget only covers a maximum of two episodes being animated.

Citation needed.

[JamesTC]

Citation needed.

Here are some posts I could find quickly from Charles Norton (Power director) and Richard Bignell (member of the Restoration Team) which talk about BBC America's involvement. As Richard Bignell says, they provide the vast majority of the budget.




I'll see if I can find more posts with more detail on GB by people who work on the range a little later. They have gone into detail more when they have been on stage at conventions, but I can't be bothered going back and finding the videos.

Power was originally made without BBC America but then they entered late in the day and wanted a colour version (hence the colourised version which was only ever broadcast on BBC America and released in the very limited steelbook Blu-Ray). Everything else from that point on has had additional funding provided for by BBC America so they could screen it over there.

[Bad Ambassador]

Fair enough. Interesting that BBC America is calling the shots, suggesting that new Doctor Who product is being largely made for export.

[JamesTC]

I wonder if it is being spearheaded by fans with just a few demands from BBC America (widescreen, colour and do all the episodes). Outside of those, they seem to have creative freedom.

[Poison To The Mind]

majority funded by BBC America.

Yes but it's still Norton's ragtag group of amateurs, or other ad-hoc assemblages of aspirational animators, who are doing the work.

[JamesTC]

Yes but it's still Norton's ragtag group of amateurs, or other ad-hoc assemblages of aspirational animators, who are doing the work.

Largely funded by BBC America. It is semantics. When I referred to the BBC America teams, I was referring to the teams funded by BBC America as a way of differentiating between the productions which are funded by them and those which aren't.

[Midas]

BBC Studios owns a controlling stake in BBC America - they co-produce numerous programmes for the BBC.[nb]including the main Doctor Who series[/nb] I think there have been instances where BBC Studios have sold the IP for programmes to BBC America who then sell the produced programme back to the BBC. Suspect it's all just a cash-fiddle.

[Midas]

Also that stuff Norton says about the animations being 21st century productions for 21st century audiences sounds a bit dubious to me.

I get what he means to a degree but, in a broader sense, there's no escaping the fact that the dialogue, the music, the sound effects and all the intricacies of the writing and production are a product of the 1960's and it's a far cry to call them "21st century productions", especially when the disconnect between the soundtrack and the visuals is as noticeable as it has been in many of the more recent offerings.

If the intent isn't to reconstruct the original serials (for the most part), why keep the original soundtrack at all? What is the intent of the animations?

I guess we'll never know because I'm arguing with a screenshot.