Glinner: thread for backseat moderators and hand-wringing [split topic]

[Ferris]

Thanks for the replies, you all. I think I feel a little better about this. Maybe my despair is more about Linehan (once, a genuinely great writer) than this forum, and the forum consistently showing his downfall brings me more into despair. I guess, given it effects me specifically (and other users present here, and in this thread), seeing his nastiness really disgusts me, and likely much more than the average (cis) person here.

I'd hate to see yet another thread have to be made about him. A ninth thread. Let's hope not.

Maybe I'm more worried about cis users here descending into almost monomania about him, in a topic they have no real experience of. To cis people, Linehan's transphobia is merely an oddity, but to trans people (like me, and others here) it's genuinely fucking scary, and has precedent in day to day life

I think as long he's churning out his fringe beliefs as loudly and publicly as possible, people will respond to them. Not to challenge them is to tacitly endorse them. This is a (largely) progressive comedy forum so I'd expect there to be a 9th thread (and a tenth, and an eleventh, ad infinitum until he sorts himself out). It's depressing, but that's the reality.

I don't think anyone is monomaniacal about him - I keep saying it, but I'd be all in favour of him sorting himself out and getting his life together (and these threads ending, which they would within a month of his final missive). It would be better for everyone involved in his end, but that won't happen.

I think this is the most I've thought about him for months, and (as I do every so often), I'm going to take a break from his bilge. I'll check back in a fortnight, but I'm sure fuck all will have changed (except I will have been spared his latest screeds). It's not a bad tactic honestly.

Edit: grammar.

[pigamus]

He's surely lurking here. Harder to believe he isn't than he is at this point. He couldn't know we were talking about him and not read every word of it, could he?

[Jumblegraws]

Thanks for posting all this, Polymorphia. I'm one of the thread regulars who's prone to going out of their way to grab fistfuls of shit from Linehan's Substack and bring it back here to wave under everyone's noses, and I probably don't think enough about any unintended consequences that might have. Wish I could articulate my thoughts on everything you've said a bit better, but that's all I've got for now.

[Sonny_Jim]

If he knocked it on the head for 2 months this thread would die on its arse, but it won't because he can't.

He can't stop posting for 2 days, let alone 2 months.  But I can't really say much as I check his SGB each day to see what hateful shit he's posting now.  The main difference is that my interest is driven by curiosity and schadenfreude, whereas his seems to be driven purely by hate.

But should we track his every move? No, I don't think so, and I don't think we do really.

I found myself on the Companies House searching for his production company to see what his current income was, that felt a bit creepy if I'm honest.  I'm always reading the bile he writes to post the very worst bits here.  I don't know why I do this.  Same reason why people look at car accidents I suppose.  But as you and others point out, copying and pasting the worst bits to here isn't exactly a positive thing to do, so maybe I shouldn't do that as much.

Thanks for the replies, you all. I think I feel a little better about this. Maybe my despair is more about Linehan (once, a genuinely great writer) than this forum, and the forum consistently showing his downfall brings me more into despair. I guess, given it effects me specifically (and other users present here, and in this thread), seeing his nastiness really disgusts me, and likely much more than the average (cis) person here.

I can definitely see why being constantly reminded of his shittiness could bring you down but If there's an upside to this thread, it's definitely made me more aware of all the different issues trans people face.

Maybe I'm more worried about cis users here descending into almost monomania about him

I find myself every so often going on a 'Glinner Break', where it's just too bleak and depressing.  So I just stop doing it for a bit.  It's a shame Graham can't do the same.

He's surely lurking here. Harder to believe he isn't than he is at this point. He couldn't know we were talking about him and not read every word of it, could he?

I doubt it, he's too busy lurking on Twitter trying to find the next 'scoop' for his 'investigative journalism'.

[Kankurette]

Tbh I don't follow him, I only know about what he's up to because of this thread.

ETA: I'm cis and I certainly don't find Linehan an oddity, I think he's dangerous.

[Jumblegraws]

He's surely lurking here. Harder to believe he isn't than he is at this point. He couldn't know we were talking about him and not read every word of it, could he?

I actually think Glinner probably avoids these threads due to finding them a bit of a buzzkill, not so much because of the posts where he's cursed and criticised at length, but the ones that just shake their heads at what a mess he is.

[DrGreggles]

I like mocking the nasty bigot that is cunt gone bananas.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I like it when the conversation drifts further into the broader liberal anti-trans issue, but I completely understand the relevance of a UK comedy forum, in the comedy subforum, documenting the strange descent of man inexorably linked to UK comedy. But yeah the real implications of his movement the lives of trans people (like us on this here forum) should not be underestimated, something I don't particularly think is happening here. There's a number of posts claiming to better understand the struggle for trans rights via the conduit of a mad glinner.

On the anti-trans front, I looked at twitter for the first time in a while and them anti-trans been trying to cancel Owen Jones for expressing interest in co-parenting. One of them big terfs got banned it looks like. Think they're losing track of who they're meant to be hating (or pretending to fight for)

[g0m]

I'm willing to agree to disagree on this (really, only with trans people, and I mean that). The last posts of what he's posted on his substack made me feel sick, and honestly, who sees those posts but a few followers and us?

like, speaking as a trans person, it really does me good to see the horrible bigoted things he says challenged. i was a fan of linehan as a kid, and he was kind of a role model for me as an aspiring irish comedy writer growing up, when he followed me on twitter i was super happy etc etc so i am always kind of aware on what he's up to, and if you were to just see things from his bubble's perspective, it'd paint a very bleak picture. seeing actually sensible people react to his stuff sensibly is a big comfort to me. like looking at an eclipse thru a pinhole viewer

[wrec]

As many trans people have pointed out, hate-quoting terf stuff on social media can obviously be counterproductive, amplifying toxicity, attracting "debate" and causing upset. But I think the threads here at least serve a purpose (besides taking the piss) in documenting his horribleness and hypocrisy in detail when he's getting more or less sympathetic coverage in mainstream media. That said I'm certainly aware that my interest is partly from a pro-trans perspective, partly about LOLs at the CGB, and that that's easy from a cis male perspective

[RicoMNKN]

I just want to say something, and I don't want it to disrupt discussion here. But it does seem weird that cis people here are so obsessed with Graham Linehan even at this point, tracking every move he makes, making claims about where this may have come from. Maybe the reason is evident in my post above (the absurdity of a known comedy writer descending into... this). But it does seem that Linehan's influence is incedibly diminished. Incredibly.

For me, it is more the radicalisation side I find fascinating.  Seeing someone go from not that different to me (albeit a success), to fucking up all the good things in their life just because they were on Twitter too much.

I was watching Room 237 (the documentary about The Shining obsessives) earlier.  I was getting quite taken in by some of their theories, even though they are nonsense when you realise how cherry picked they are.  It made me see how that same sort of thinking can lead to dark places when applied to something with real world consequences.

I can easily see how one could go from where I am now to where he is now, and that's scary.  For example, I have to put blocks on social media, as I recognised their addiction-by-design working on me, and I can also remember times when I'd have been the atheist dickhead to a religious person for no justifiable reason. 

This is why I still have pity for him, even though his behaviour is so horrible.  He's an addict who is drowning in it, and doesn't seem to realise. 

Learning about trans issues has been an interesting side to following this thread, but not my main reason to follow it.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Linehan's career in UK comedy does make it feel like his descent is of unique relevance and inevitably particular interest to this forum. It also feels like he has brought wider issues in through his own behaviour which invite discussion. Online interactions, celebrity psychology, social media dynamics, etc. There is simply a lot to discuss.

I think there are things to take on board and make time to consider regarding Polymorphia's post. I do think waiting on and reporting on his every move is unhealthy and invites suspicion, but regarding helping transpeople and trans rights it strikes me that all this has provoked transpeople and allies to come forward, share their perspectives and that can't be a bad thing with respect of making progress. Gay rights and acceptance were established through a process of demystifying, destigmatising, and overall visibility.

[Alberon]

Outside of this thread I don't check up on Linehan. Life's too short to spend too long staring into the abyss. I'm mostly but not entirely cis, I think there's a bit of fluidity in us all, but that's for another pro-trans thread.

Watching someone responsible for a slew of good, sometimes really good, comedy self-combust like this is appalling fascinating. Though anytime I start feeling sorry for him he says something particularly nasty that stamps on that feeling.

As long as we keep it here and not on social media, totally avoid detailed discussions of his family life (there are kids involved in this wretched slow motion car wreck), and avoid nosing around his finances I think it's fine.

Most cis people are very ignorant of trans issues, though far less than they were even just a few years ago. It reminds me so much of what gay people went through three or four decades ago. While the situation isn't perfect by a long shot, so much of the hysteria back then has gone.

[Catalogue Trousers]

Nothing original, but my main objections are that Glinner has done nothing to warrant 9 100-odd page threads and counting. There's a certain irony in any of us claiming that he's a sad, deranged obsessive when that sort of attention is given to him.

Also, although he's best known as a comedy writer (or was, eh chums?), since the threads on him deal purely with his transphobia and general crap life, Comedy Chat is a lousy place for such threads. General Bullshit is far more suited.

Further also, the Glinner threads are becoming more and more concerned with reporting/commenting on particularly crass examples of transphobia in general. See the last sentence of the previous paragraph, and add 'and therefore, a general thread on the topic, targeting Glinner among other transphobes, is far more appropriate and doesn't feel half as petty and obsessive'.

That's all.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Counterpoint: contain all the shitty blue-tick brigade transphobia in one thread so posters can avoid it easily

[dissolute ocelot]

Counterpoint: contain all the shitty blue-tick brigade transphobia in one thread so posters can avoid it easily

Yeah, I feel bad writing about transphobia in other threads on trans/queer/LGBT+ issues even when it's big news in TERFdom. Most TERFs are a sad irrelevance only of interest because of their other career as writers of comedy, wizard fiction, or articles on The Breakfast Club. Cataloguing Glinner and his ilk should be kept in a place where only the obsessives need to read it.

[touchingcloth]

Yeah, I feel bad writing about transphobia in other threads on trans/queer/LGBT+ issues even when it's big news in TERFdom. Most TERFs are a sad irrelevance only of interest because of their other career as writers of comedy, wizard fiction, or articles on The Breakfast Club. Cataloguing Glinner and his ilk should be kept in a place where only the obsessives need to read it.

That could be a pinned thread, either GB or CC. I avoid the Corbyn/Other threads that are pinned to CC, but the Glinner ones always intermingle with the main threads in CC.

[chveik]

there hasn't been a corbyn thread for quite a while

[touchingcloth]

It morphed into the Labour one (I assume), but it was easy enough to ignore because I just mentally filter out the pinned topics which aren't of interest to me.

[Tokyo van Ramming]

there hasn't been a corbyn thread for quite a while

Says the fella in Corbyn threads (shit suit etc)

[Catalogue Trousers]

That could be a pinned thread, either GB or CC. I avoid the Corbyn/Other threads that are pinned to CC, but the Glinner ones always intermingle with the main threads in CC.

Sounds a good move to me. And, as said before, I agree that Glinner's a hateful transphobic wanker: but it does sometimes feel like we're becoming fixated in an unhealthy breast tissue manner on him. In some ways, he's the lesser problem, what with being so crashingly unsubtle. It's the likes of Rowling, speaking from a somewhat less hysterical-sounding place, that are the bigger one. Not to mention the many others who aren't so obviously famous/notorious. At the risk of Godwinning myself, it's a bit like focussing on Hitler as the sole enemy while ignoring his High Command and the many troopers doing the real damage.

TL:DR? The problem is bigger than any one person, so treat it accordingly.

[Barry Admin]

How is there "too much focus on Glinner" when the threads also cover Rowling and everything else? Glinner has barely been mentioned the last few pages.

Same objections every time. Appreciate the feedback, but I think the threads are good, effective, readable, and kind of important.

(Also, there was a separate thread for Rowling anyway, as her wading in was such a significant moment.)

[mippy]

Yeah he's been a prick no doubt - But isn't he just a guy with outdated views hammering shit out, messing his life up? I know it's previously been at other people's expense, but right now... I dunno? Mercy?

Or am I just being a soft touch?

I might be a slight hypocrite because I fucking LOL'd (genuinely) when Katie Hopkins got ejected from Twitter, but Hopkins seems to revel in it and make a career out of it and every living pore on her body seems to emit genuine evil, whereas Glinner just seems like some awkward Uncle making terrible social decisions which has resulted in him desperately fumbling about and falling from grace into a clammy self-fulfilled hole.

--

On another note - It reminds me of another 'internet famous person' called Christian Weston Chandler now Christine, who is the subject of .... a fucking rabbit hole of bizarre behaviour, now (or was) the target of trolls worldwide. CWC is actually probably one living example of how the internet has probably shaped one's character and destiny.

For those unaware CWC is... An odd American person with little or no self-awareness, autistic, probably low levels of social intelligence (but fairly bright in other aspects) and has been the subject of ridicule for over a decade. CWC did a LOT to bring it onto himself (back when she was a bloke) - by making hugely venomous remarks about women, gays, trans people and all sorts of other shit. Trying to run someone over with their car, accidentally burning his own house down, macing shop employees and being banned from various gaming stores, comic conventions and all sorts of stuff. Inserting a broken Sonichu medallion up his arsehole to the support of his 'fans'. Fucking a blow up dummy. A prostitute. Trying to trick women into sex, all from his seedy weird room filled with toys and comic book posters. I speak in the 'he' terms as this was all before he transitioned. And at one point CWC simply thought 'transitioning' was dragging a sharp knife across his.... bits. And so he did. On camera.

At one point it must have clicked that the trolls were in serious danger of being complicit in something terrible. As he started receiving monetary donations after begging online, many of the trolls telling him to 'go seek medical assistance for the knife wound between your balls and anus'. Some trolls defended him from other trolls, whilst simultaneously tricking him into other weird shit.

It's a fucking rollercoaster.

Also CWC tried to combine Sonic the Hedgehog and Pikachu together to form his own 'copyrighted' comic character called Sonichu, which was how CWC originally became infamous. Trolls have been at CWC for decades now, taunting her with false Nintendo interviews and making her drive several states over for no reason... it's ... just an odd read.

Seriously CWC's  journey is absolutely is harrowing. Probably one of the strangest things I've read online with morbid fascination.

--

Proper gone off track there. I was once going to make a post on here about CWC, but it's hard to have a discussion without it seeming you're mocking someone, even if parts of their tragic life are genuinely amusing. And vice versa, you can be the biggest cunt and wreck everything, but that's ultimately quite tragic isn't it?


--

EDIT: Of course I'm comparing apples and oranges there, I know Glinner and CWC aren't comparable, but it's more to do with observing all this in real time.

I've tried reading up on CWC but it just made me feel immensely uncomfortable. ForeverKailyn was the beauty community equivalent - a woman with (I think) learning disabilities who posted very amateurish videos that got trolled to fuck, to the point that someone sent her "body spray" in the post that was actually pee, and then stories of her racist/abusive behaviour surfaced, and it all felt just extremely unentertaining.

[Kankurette]

Oh golly. I used to follow the CWC stuff but it rapidly got creepy. All those sex videos. Something something staring into the abyss.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

In my day we didn't have lolcows, we had Ulillillia and almost everyone was nice to him and cheered at every minor improvement in his life.

[The Ombudsman]

Ulillillia!

Saw a doc on him, seemed a nice chap.

[MoreauVasz]

Another Glinner thread?

Why not just create a new sub-forum devoted to him and have done with it.

[Kankurette]

In my day we didn't have lolcows, we had Ulillillia and almost everyone was nice to him and cheered at every minor improvement in his life.

I don't know much about him, but apparently he was a genuinely nice and harmless bloke, just a bit mad.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Another Glinner thread?

Why not just create a new sub-forum devoted to him and have done with it.

glinn'd and bomb'd

[Captain Z]

I think Glinner has been a fascinating case study for various reasons, but the idea that we should have more threads or even a pinned topic simply to highlight and repost hateful crap against trans people is almost as bananas as the big man himself.