Star Trek: Prodigy

[Mobbd]

Not yet, too petrified. The positive reviews people are giving are heartening, but at the same time, watching any new Star Trek production at this point feels like being Charlie Brown and having Lucy pull the football away from you.

The promise of seeing holo-Janeway keeps making me nearly give in and watch it though.

Don't watch it. I mean, do what you like but it's just... dogshit. To the extent that I'm genuinely shaken by it. It's Star Trek's Derek. A moment far beyond redemption, decades of goodwill no longer at its aid.

That it doesn't feel remotely like Star Trek doesn't trouble me as much as I'd have thought; it merely bewilders. Star Trek always needed to take bigger risks and wanting the Delta Quadrant to be a bit more visually alien was always a valid criticism of Voyager. So I'd praise them for originality... except they've displayed so little. They've just cobbled together a lot of breathless nonsense that tonally feels very, very, very, very, very much like a Star Wars production (droids in cloaks, the naming convention, the score, young proteges, chosen ones), a little bit like Avatar (blue people, not air bender), and so much like Brats of the Lost Nebula (in story as well as character design) that the Jim Henson Company should consider legal action.



It's like the producers went "what can we rip off? Anything but Star Trek, of course, even though we've paid to rip that off. I mean Star Trek's for nerds, not cool people like us!" Fucking bizarre.

They crossed the 180 line multiple times when the girl one was talking to Snoke. Not sure how you manage that when doing animation. Maybe they thought it was stylish?

"I'm Hologram Janeway."

Hologram Janeway. What a clever name. What a clever line. Kate Mulgrew must be relishing such a wonderful script.

Sigh. Well. It doesn't wreck anything major in terms of continuity, and actually expands the painting for once. Albeit right out of the frame and into someone else's art gallery. I like the idea that life continues in the D-Quad.

Can anything be about our collective, societal success any more? Even Discovery is about individual rebels fighting the power. Maybe every generation gets the Star Trek it deserves.

What dreck. I'm embarrassed to have taken it seriously for even a moment.

[Lemming]

Thanks, you've just given me the strength to stay away from it. I did fear a Star Wars sort of vibe from it when I saw the first artwork.

I didn't know it took place in the Delta Quadrant, though! How did a Medusan get there?

[Camp Tramp]

I like Janeway but I hate Voyager. Must be done to Kate Mulgrew's portrayal?

[Mobbd]

I like Janeway but I hate Voyager. Must be done to Kate Mulgrew's portrayal?

I like Voyager but it's the fourth best series imho; Mulgrew  certainly brings a huge lot to it - a real touch of class in the Patrick Stewart vain. Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, and Robert Picardo are hardly dead weight, mind you.

Mulgrew doesn't save Prodigy alas and her character's presence actually feels a bit incongruous. But only aesthetically incongruous because the Brats of the Lost Nebula gang were mentored by a hologram too.

[Mobbd]

I didn't know it took place in the Delta Quadrant, though! How did a Medusan get there?

We don't know yet. They might be willfully intriguing us or they might have just fucked up.

There's also a

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Tellarite

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in the main cast (who speaks in the third person like that lad from Guardians of the Galaxy even though

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Tellarites

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don't usually do that; maybe he's brain damaged?) and we get a sighting of

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Lurian who may in fact be Morn

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. Yes, in the Delta Quadrant.

I think the story will involve some

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slipstream technology or similar, connecting the Alpha and Delta Quadrants

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though this is speculation on my part. I don't mind that story idea too much, though the desire to zoom all over the galaxy at Ludicrous Speed is a bit narratively unrestrained and Marvel-inspired for my liking (see also the red angel lights or whatever they were going on in Season 2 of Disco). Hardly their worst sin though.

[Mobbd]

I think I might have inadvertently shut this conversation down by being so negative. If people like the show and want to talk about it, you definitely should! Sorry I was a downer about it.

I'm going to watch Episode 2. Posters in this thread make it sound better than the first one. I like the sound of a vehicle replicator. If it is what I assume it is, it sounds like one of those good Trek ideas they never did. Like, how about installing medical tricorder components into the sickbay doors so that the EMH knows right away what's wrong with you? Looking forward to seeing that.

Even though I disliked what I saw of Prodigy so far, I'll say I'm at least interested to see a bit more now. I didn't hate Lower Decks after seeing one episode[nb]https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,81433.msg4690932.html#msg4690932[/nb] but I am yet to bother watching more of that. So I'll give Prodigy that; it seems to have me wanting to try some more.

[Malcy]

Have been enjoying this but not happy about the fact it's been split into small chunks for airing just so Paramount+ can hold on to subscribers.

I didn't know it took place in the Delta Quadrant, though! How did a Medusan get there?

They're on the edge of Delta & Beta Quadrants so it's not too far fetched for any species to be there really.

[Malcy]

This is back with a great little episode that just raises more questions rather than answer any.

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So the bad guy has been looking for the Protostar for at least 17 years which is odd as i thought this was set a lot closer to around the time Voyager gets home. Can't be the case as it's revealed that Chakotay is the ship's captain. Presumably they'll go back to the Delta Quadrant to go looking for him and his crew even though they've just reached the Gamma.

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The whole Kobayashi Maru part was good fun, nice reuse of dialogue from TWOK and I did wonder if what was coming would actually happen.

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Spock, Uhura, Scotty, Odo & Crusher! Some nice work with the reuse of dialogue, apart from Gates McFadden, although the TOS one's could have done with a bit of a clean up.

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[Alberon]

The level of

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previous Trek show references

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in that was ridiculous, but I loved it.

Yeah, I think they might have made a

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mistake with the timings (unless time travel is involved (as is often the case in Trek)). The flashback would have been to around the end of the third season of TNG if the stardate is right.

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The trawl to get all the

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dialogue must have taken awhile. I recognised some Spock dialogue from the first film and the TNG Unification episodes.

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I did start to worry that he was about to

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beat the Kobyashi Maru test, but they did just manage to avoid that.

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[mothman]

There's a stardate that...

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... Places the "seventeen years earlier" scene towards the end of TNG s3:

https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1479172487154106370

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[Malcy]

There's a stardate that...

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... Places the "seventeen years earlier" scene towards the end of TNG s3:

https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1479172487154106370

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Between Sarek & Ménage a Troi apparently.

https://blog.trekcore.com/2022/01/star-trek-prodigy-review-kobayashi/

The article also has details of the dialogue.

[Alberon]

From an interview with the episode writer and series producer Aaron J. Waltke. Firstly on the logistics of the archive audio.

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Can you talk about the logistics of what it took for you and the team to put all of that together using the voices of the legacy actors?

I basically had to create some algorithms with every Star Trek script ever written in order to search the databases for relevant lines. I also wound up reading probably 80 or 90 scripts, and rewatching about 40 or 50 episodes top to bottom. Knowing the shape of the story I wanted to tell, which, of course, is the Kobayashi Maru scenario and how Dal would interpret that, I then proceeded to go through find the lines to try to line them up to make sure they sounded like they're all in the same room talking to each other. Then I went to the Star Trek archives where they thankfully have the remastered audio from all the DVD sets and the movies and such. And I would give them the time code and the episode and say, "Please give me the cleanest, just dialogue track of this line." And then our team at Audio Circus, they had a specialist who was able to clean up the audio as much as they could using modern technology. Obviously, there's still some of the stuff that was recorded in the '60s and it still has a little bit of a guttural quality to it. But I think it's that's almost charming in a way. Because it does feel relatively seamless once you kind of buy into the wish fulfillment of it. But there was a lot of a lot of takes that didn't work for one reason or another. Maybe they're too far away from the microphone or the line just didn't work or the inflection was wrong. So there was a lot of back and forth and testing. Like getting the right delivery of "Live Long and Prosper" to work. He actually doesn't say it very often in the series. I was kind of surprised to learn he only says it maybe six or seven times.

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And secondly about the timeline.

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You also pack in a lot of your own lore, including more on the history of The Diviner, Gwyn, and The Protostar. So, in the flashback, The Diviner was looking for something called "Protostar" before the launch of the USS Protostar or even before the USS Voyager went to the Delta Quadrant? Is that right?

Yes. There's only so much I can say without spoiling. But what I will say is you are right, and that the timeline is very wibbly-wobbly, and convoluted. But that's also not the first time that's happened in Star Trek. But there is a reasonable explanation for it, and you'll probably figure it out. But I will confirm that The Diviner was looking for the USS Protostar 17 years ago, and several years before even Voyager had left.

Ah, so it rhymes with fime fravel?

[Laughs] You might say that, yes.

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https://trekmovie.com/2022/01/06/interview-writer-producer-aaron-j-waltke-on-kobayashi-and-whats-next-for-star-trek-prodigy/

[Malcy]

I like this a lot more than i thought I would. This and LD have made me excited for Trek again. This week had

Spoiler alert

a Ferengi and a Marauder class ship, but yet the Ferengi turned out to be a profit hungry dodgy TNG version which I thought was a good contrast to the mostly nice Ferengi we know from DS9. Was quite a sad twist that Dal became a slave because his adopted parent just sold him.

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This show has shown a lot of heart and a LOT of the Trek spirit. I'm just annoyed it's being split into such small chunks.

Been meaning post this too in regards to last weeks episode.

[Mobbd]

I've not seen the latest yet but I watched Kobayashi and the one after it.

On balance, I enjoyed these.

I do wonder what the fan service is in aid of though. If this is a show for kids who can't yet enjoy the other shows, what can they get out of all this?

I got something a kick out of all the cribbed dialogue but (especially going on that interview quote Alberon posted) the motivation for it is mysterious to me. Why those particular characters? Why so many dead actors when you could pull in 3 living legacy actors for clean new dialogue? Why not clean up the dialogue better (it seemed a bit noisy to me, especially the Spock council)?

The recycled dialogue reminded me of an idea I had uselessly. They should create a library of Majel Barrett computer dialogue for reuse. That would create a very strong bond of continuity to other shows and honour the old and long-standing claim that Majel is the only actor to be in all generations. Unlike the Kobayashi gang, it would be perfectly appropriate if the dialogue sounded a tad robotic.

The business about Dal's mum was good, I think. Continuity-friendly and with some successful emotional punch for once.

[Mobbd]

I'm just annoyed it's being split into such small chunks

I reckon it will be more enjoyable when there's a tonne of it to binge watch, uninterrupted.

By the way, was anyone else distressed about the cat alien (a Caitian?) they abandoned to slavery in Episode 1/2? I hope he comes back for Kes-like revenge somehow.

[Malcy]

Enjoyed the 2 parter. Good to get a bit more of an idea of what is going on.

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The Diviner being sent back in time probably means that Chakotay was sent after him to stop him. By the end of the episode I was wondering why there seemed to have been no concern for Chakotay and the Protostar crew.

[close]

And that final scene was great.

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Vice Admiral Janeway! And she's the Captain of a proper Starfleet version of the USS Dauntless from the Voyager episode 'Hope & Fear'!

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[Malcy]

Great interview here that goes quite in depth with a lot of stuff raised in this thread.

Also we just got our first look at

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Jason Alexander's character. Thought it could have been but wasn't sure.

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https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/03/interview-star-trek-prodigy-producer-aaron-waltke-talks-timelines-janeways-combadges-and-much-more/

[Mobbd]

Heh: https://twitter.com/GenesVision/status/1481321763313229831

(I think I'm 3 Proddles eps behind now; will join the party again very soon).

[mothman]

https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/03/interview-star-trek-prodigy-producer-aaron-waltke-talks-timelines-janeways-combadges-and-much-more/

I can just shoot so many holes in this guy's Trek knowledge without even looking stuff up. I might do that later if anyone cares.

[Malcy]

Didn't think it worth starting a new thread as this is still S1.

It's so good. 6 episodes in to the second half and so much is going on. Lots of spoilers ahead!

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Okona, Admiral Jellicho, Jason Alexander, Dal is an experiment made by a Soong(Spiner is surely going to turn up at some point in this as well), Romulans, Borg(possibly the artefact from Picard S1), Infiltrator on the USS Dauntless,

And that excellent episode set on a world that had encountered the original Enterprise.

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The only downside is the short episode length and most episodes ending on a big cliff-hanger. Suppose that's a good thing as well. Keeps you coming back. There's still at least another 20 episodes to come after this run. I'm really interested to see where it will go.

I can only assume something will happen in regards to their current dilemma which will lead into the Search For

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Chakotay

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.

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Neelix

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is surely going to turn up as well.

[Malcy]

First part of the finale was really good. Gwyn's speech she gave when making a plea for help was very Star Trek and choked me up a little bit.

Nice call-back to 'Counterpoint' as well which is often regarded as one of the best Voyager episodes and one of Kate Mulgrew's personal favourites.

Looks like this story could show the fate of

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The Enterprise E. I think from the Picard prequel novel that Worf is in command at this time but I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the Defiant instead which is also in the battle. And the USS Sovereign from the Bridge Commander PC game is there as well!

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Interested to see how this run will end and what will be the plot for S2.

[Malcy]

Cancelled and S2 might not even air by the sounds of things...

https://blog.trekcore.com/2023/06/star-trek-prodigy-cancelled-paramount-plus-removal/

The 1st series is even being taken off Paramount+ & Nickelodeon.

[Alberon]

Several other (non-trek) shows cancelled and pulled as well. It's a sort of tax write-off when they do that.

Another sign that the days of Peak Television have passed.

[Mobbd]

Excellent news.

It was the most imaginative and creative of the NuTrek shows in my opinion. But it was still crap.

I got the impression that the other shows were ignorant of it. Like, can you imagine PIC ever acknowledging that, for example, Chakotay is back in the D-Quad? Or the Protostar ever showing up in a capacity greater than an Easter egg? Can you imagine THE DIVINER ever showing up beyond PRO? "Soft canon," I guess.

[elliszeroed]

Been cancelled.

Shame, the only current Star Trek series I've really enjoyed.

[MojoJojo]

Excellent news.

It was the most imaginative and creative of the NuTrek shows in my opinion. But it was still crap.

You'll be delighted to know that Netflix picked it up. First season is on there now and a second coming this year.

[Mobbd]

You'll be delighted to know that Netflix picked it up. First season is on there now and a second coming this year.

I was waiting for someone to feed me my lunch on this one. You are right to do it.

[MojoJojo]

I'm enjoying this. Just watched an episode where they find a cargo cult dedicated to the original star trek crew, and they all copy Shatners distinctive speaking pattern.

I will caveat by saying it is a kid's show and most of the characters are pretty shallow. But then I'm watching it with kids and it's straightforward fun.

[Zero Gravitas]

I will caveat by saying it is a kid's show and most of the characters are pretty shallow.

[MojoJojo]

Finished season 2. Overall enjoyed it. Some quibbles about the ending -

So back in season 1 they discover they can't blow up the Protostar because the resulting explosion would wipe out everything within 50 million mile radius. There are two problems with this
1) How incredibly irresponsible it is of Starfleet to build something that is supposedly so destructive it's impossible to find somewhere safe to blow it up.
2) ... except the script writers forgot to do the research. In space terms, 50 million miles isn't that much - average earth orbit is around 90 million miles for example.

But anyway, my actual quibble is after establishing that they cant blow up the ship, in the final, after releasing the booby trap onto star fleet, Rok goes "Why don't we <technobabble>" and then blowing up the protostar was fine. Shame you didn't think of that earlier.

Having the Klingons come in to buy some time was OK, but since no actual deaths or ships being blown up were shown, it wasn't clear if they were actually helping. In fact the whole climax felt like it lost urgency once the booby trap went off. From it's description it should have completely wiped out star fleet in a matter of minutes, but it's implied several hours pass and that star fleet is basically fine afterwards.

Killing off hologram Janeway felt a bit cheap, but I guess having two Janeway's next season would be weird.

The "Augments can't join Star Fleet" drama felt rushed - introduced one episode, resolved in the next.

But these are quibbles really, and overall it got the main bits right so it worked.