Doctor Who 2005-2017 : The RTD & Moffat Years

[JamesTC]

Didn't we get this in Curse of the Fatal Death?

Fucking hell, we did an' all. Must have been buried deep in my memory. Not watched it for many years.

[olliebean]

Say what you like about Chibnall but you know that if Moffat brought in a female Doctor, he'd make a sonic screwdriver/vibrator joke.

As opposed to Chibnall who just gave her a sonic screwdriver that very obviously looks like a vibrator.

[Replies From View]

As opposed to Chibnall who just gave her a sonic screwdriver that very obviously looks like a vibrator.

Well, to be fair, I do wonder what options they have to avoid this inevitable comparison.  Matt Smith's one grew in length and had a kind of foreskin-pulling-back action feature.  However you look at it, it's a thick girth of rod.  Probably the best solution is to replace the prop with another object, like we had with the sonic sunglasses, although I suppose anything like Sarah Jane Smith's sonic lipstick would generate complaints of sexism.

[olliebean]

Chibnall: "There's a very specific way that the Doctor comes by this Sonic Screwdriver" (his emphasis)...

He knows.

[Replies From View]

Yeah she makes it out of some stuff she finds in Sheffield.  Incredible.

[Catalogue Trousers]

Which is a very Doctor-like thing to do. He/she's been making complicated 'lash-ups' (copyright Terrance Dicks) for decades now.

[JamesTC]

I feel like I have seen variations of Oxygen before. All just a mix of a few different stories. It did look impressive. The ending felt a little rushed and not set up well enough throughout the episode. Still, it is overall it is a worthy entry. It would probably be a bit standout in the previous two series, but I am hoping this proves to be a lesser or average entry in this one.

The opening theme of this era has grown on me.

The Bill is a racist jokes feel a bit off. I get the point, but I feel it could be taken the wrong way. As if it was arguing for sympathy for racists.

I noticed that the screen on the ship mentioned "Ganymede Systems". I knew Matthew Clark did the signage and on screen displays on this series, and this definitely feels like a little nod to Red Dwarf. Met him in September at the Dimension Jump convention and saw a great Q&A by him (he worked on Red Dwarf XII and The Promised Land).

[Ambient Sheep]

That's interesting, ta.

[JamesTC]

I saw it mentioned on this thread that the three parter this series wasn't very good so I went in with low expectations...

Extremis is a strong opening. Zipped along at a good pace with lots of mystery and twists and turns. The reveal that everything is a hologram is great, but it layers it by keeping us guessing how much of what we are seeing is part of the simulation. I guess it can feel a bit of a cheat when you realise at the end that it was all just a simulation, but it doesn't bother me. I find it strange that they would reveal that it was The Master in the vault at the beginning of an episode rather than at the denouement of Oxygen.

The odd structure means The Pyramid at the End of the World feels like part one despite being the middle episode of the trilogy. It is hilariously obvious that The Doctor is blind (including Nardole explaining everything happening right infront of him while right next to Bill) and Bill does not realise until near the end of the episode. The world powers being summed up with the three leaders of the armies was a bit CBBC but it was a necessary simplification and they all get turned into dust anyway. I enjoyed the conundrum of The Doctor being stuck without his eyesight and not being able to get out the airlock. It seemed like far longer than 2 minutes that The Doctor had to get out the chamber.

I love the opening of The Lie of the Land. All these decrepit mummies standing around during all major events in history. The unfortunate thing is that the comedy opening kind of undermines the threat it is setting up. The fake regeneration was silly and seems to have simply been made to put in a trailer. The Master is tedious to the extreme and I wish she had never fucking mentioned Celebrity Love Island on Doctor Who even if it was as the butt of a joke. Ending feels all too quick and neat.

Overall I thought it was a worthy attempt at a three-parter even if the third part let it down a little. The third part felt oddly divorced from the main threat. I don't even think the monks had a line of dialogue in The Lie of the Land.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

The opening theme of this era has grown on me.

glad to hear it! don't even know why but it grew exponentially on me after i came back to who after 5 or so years off. love it so much. great rhythm, good schlocky bells. silly but driven; self aware. tone SPOT on considering how grimdark smith's theme and especially its variation was

[Replies From View]

The fake regeneration was silly and seems to have simply been made to put in a trailer.

Yep.  Pointless because the real regeneration was around the corner and footage from the final episode would have served an equal purpose in any series 10 trailer.


But it especially aggrieves me because why did the Doctor even do it?  Just being an emotionally manipulative cunt, it feels like.  Make someone shoot me, and then I shall pretend to die, haha.  It ruins the 12th Doctor for me.

[JamesTC]

But it especially aggrieves me because why did the Doctor even do it?  Just being an emotionally manipulative cunt, it feels like.  Make someone shoot me, and then I shall pretend to die, haha.  It ruins the 12th Doctor for me.

When the 7th Doctor did it, it at least had much more of a purpose. The Doctor has done this a few times in the Moffat era.

[JamesTC]

The Ice Warrior redesign was rather good, so I am happy to see them return in Empress of Mars. Whilst it feels a bit cliche to introduce a Queen, it worked well enough for the Ice Warriors. Pretty simple tale but a very enjoyable one. Certainly my favourite episode of this series so far. It does feel like Gatiss telling a very novel style story. I can see a 90s Third Doctor novel about Victorian soldiers on Mars.

The ending was surprisingly quite touching, with the Queen sparing the soldiers' life. I love Alpha Centauri. Shame we only got a brief glimpse of her.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

still working my way through season 9 atm. zygon episodes were not bad! finding it hard to muster much enthusiasm for this season, especially when i was pleasantly surprised with how much i enjoyed season 8. it just feels a bit... faff. wish the dad rock stuff would fuck off. for some reason the chemistry between the doctor and clara feels incredibly forced when they're sooo into each other. they work much better in conflict tbh

[pigamus]

Coleman and Capaldi was always going to look weird. Capaldi's too nice a bloke to give off proper creepy uncle vibes but you can't avoid it completely.

[daf]

creepy uncle

CRUNCLE!

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Coleman and Capaldi was always going to look weird. Capaldi's too nice a bloke to give off proper creepy uncle vibes but you can't avoid it completely.

yeah. platonic uncle (pluncle) in season 8 worked fine for me. fucking moffat (fuffat)

[JamesTC]

In 1989, Rona Munro written a Doctor Who story and then Doctor Who went on hiatus for 6 years. In 2017, Rona Munro written The Eaters of Light and now we are in a six-year gap until the next new episode in 2023.

Well this isn't as good as Survival. Unfortunately Munro seemed a little embarrassed about Survival when she talked about it on the recent Season 26 Blu-ray set. Survival is great, she has nothing to be ashamed about for it.

This episode isn't great. It feels wrong coming straight after The Empress of Mars as the old Earth army fighting against a monster. It also had similarities to last series' The Girl Who Died. I enjoyed them trapping the monster using light at the end. All in all I think I just think there wasn't anything complex about the story when there could have been more to it. I didn't feel like the new characters had any depth to them to fill in the simple story.

[lipsink]

Series 10 starts off really strong, becomes a bit crap towards the end and then ends really strong (I love the Cybermen 2 partner). It's Moffat's strongest series since Series 5 and Capaldi, Bill and Nardole are a fantastic TARDIS team. Thank God they managed at least one great series with Capaldi's Doctor.

[pigamus]

In 1989, Rona Munro written a Doctor Who story and then Doctor Who went on hiatus for 6 years. In 2017, Rona Munro written The Eaters of Light and now we are in a six-year gap until the next new episode in 2023.

Well this isn't as good as Survival. Unfortunately Munro seemed a little embarrassed about Survival when she talked about it on the recent Season 26 Blu-ray set. Survival is great, she has nothing to be ashamed about for it.

This episode isn't great. It feels wrong coming straight after The Empress of Mars as the old Earth army fighting against a monster. It also had similarities to last series' The Girl Who Died. I enjoyed them trapping the monster using light at the end. All in all I think I just think there wasn't anything complex about the story when there could have been more to it. I didn't feel like the new characters had any depth to them to fill in the simple story.

To think people took the piss out of the Cheetah People in 1989 - fucking dog man in 2021 looked worse!

[Replies From View]

To think people took the piss out of the Cheetah People in 1989 - fucking dog man in 2021 looked worse!

The cat woman people in series 12 certainly were very bad.

[JamesTC]

I think it has probably shown that I am not at all a fan of The Master in the new series. John Simm was in my two least favourite Doctor Who stories ever and his character is very much part of it. The Missy version hasn't been much better, albeit an innate likeability from Michelle Gomez (not a criticism of Simm, just praise for Gomez). I'm not really looking forward to a multi-Master story featuring my two least favourite incarnations. But who knows, the Big Finish audio The Two Masters is great, so maybe this will be okay...

...World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls is ...not bad. Not great but for a story featuring two incarnations of The Master that I am not a fan of, that is a plus.

The opening regeneration cheat is the mechanic of the following episode as I understand it, just a way of creating dramatic tension, but I can't help but feel it is being used in a little bit of a lackadaisical way. When The Stolen Earth used it, I thought it was brilliant as all of the media crowed about a secret surprise early regeneration... despite the fact that they had already recorded The Next Doctor.

Bill being killed right at the start is pretty shocking. Probably the most gruesome death to a companion since Sara Kingdom aged to death and turned to dust. Bill inspecting all the Cyberman patients is really thrilling and gruesome. The Master doing a pointless disguise is always fun. I feel like they could have demonstrated years of The Master and Bill together better, maybe a different hair style on Bill or something simple like that. I do have to admire The Master pottering around in disguise for years just to get one over The Doctor and to take over the Cybermen. OH FUCK OFF ADDING THE STOMPING ON THE GOOD CYBERMEN.

Missy not knowing whether she is on The Doctor's side is an interesting dilemma for the finale. The Simm Master actually made me laugh when he told Nardole that The Doctor told him he always hated him. They had to ruin the lovely old Mondas Cybermen by bringing in the rubbish new series design. It is a shame the creepiness of the first part is eschewed for the second. I'm assuming that Missy had an inkling of what was coming and prepared for it which allowed her to survive and regenerate at the cost of returning to a proper evil incarnation (The Master always has a way out). The end to Bill's story was really sweet and whilst not set up explicitly, it doesn't feel a cop-out.

I don't like when The Doctor doesn't want to regenerate. It feels to me like it can be alienating to the next Doctor when that happens. I absolutely detested the Tenth Doctor's regeneration. I'm not a big fan of the way this is all set up however I guess it will be okay if the next story is about getting The Doctors to accept their upcoming regeneration.

So I assume that this episode is set on a Mondasian ship that left before the events of Spare Parts? They reference other stories here such as the Sixth Doctor comics and I think it is supposed to be insinuated that this sits alongside the other "genesis" tales for the Cybermen. My thinking is that the groundwork for what made the Cybermen rise was already laid out when this group of Mondasians left Mondas (World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls) and then followed the same path as those that remained (Spare Parts). I wonder if the Mondasians on the ship actually survived much longer than those who remained on Mondas. Getting into fan fiction territory there.

Overall an enjoyable two parter despite the disadvantages it had by having two incarnations of The Master I wasn't a fan of. They were both probably as good as they could ever be here. Also probably as good as the Cybermen would ever be in the new series despite the rubbish design also returning and the interminable stomping.

One story to go...

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

i don't mean to sound facetious JamesTC, but which doctor who period do you love? from your reviews i don't get the impression that you've really felt super positive about much season 8 onwards

[JamesTC]

i don't mean to sound facetious JamesTC, but which doctor who period do you love? from your reviews i don't get the impression that you've really felt super positive about much season 8 onwards

I don't think I have been too positive, no. I've tried to be as I do love Capaldi in the role and all of the companions have been great but there just haven't been too many standout episodes. Maybe it is just that I feel it is squandered potential. Though I think I was more positive than most about the monk three-parter than most.

Probably marking my card when I saw my favourite Who seasons are 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 22, 23, 25 and 26. Season 2, 3, 4, 7, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, Series 4 (minus the abysmal specials) and Series 5 all hover below that. Though I'd say only Season 24 and Series 2 are bad (and they both have a good story or two in there).

[Ambient Sheep]

OH FUCK OFF ADDING THE STOMPING ON THE GOOD CYBERMEN.

Yeah, I couldn't fucking believe that!

Series 4 (minus the abysmal specials)

Even The Waters of Mars?  Agree that Planet of the Double-Decker Bus was absolute shite, and I can understand not liking the Xmas/NY pair, but what's wrong with WoM?

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I don't think I have been too positive, no. I've tried to be as I do love Capaldi in the role and all of the companions have been great but there just haven't been too many standout episodes. Maybe it is just that I feel it is squandered potential. Though I think I was more positive than most about the monk three-parter than most.

Probably marking my card when I saw my favourite Who seasons are 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 22, 23, 25 and 26. Season 2, 3, 4, 7, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, Series 4 (minus the abysmal specials) and Series 5 all hover below that. Though I'd say only Season 24 and Series 2 are bad (and they both have a good story or two in there).

yes i noticed that with the monk trilogy. i'm glad because i also feel quite positive about those ones. i'm quite keen to dip into classic who as i've only really watched tomb of the cybmermen and genesis of the daleks, and there's a seriously imposing amount of episodes out there

[JamesTC]

Even The Waters of Mars?  Agree that Planet of the Double-Decker Bus was absolute shite, and I can understand not liking the Xmas/NY pair, but what's wrong with WoM?

Waters of Mars was fine. The Jackson Lake bits of The Next Doctor too. The Cybermen parts of The Next Doctor, Planet of the Dead and The End of Time drag anything worthy from that run.

[Catalogue Trousers]

I love Alpha Centauri. Shame we only got a brief glimpse of her.

Him/her. Alpha's an hermaphrodite hexapod.

[JamesTC]

Him/her. Alpha's an hermaphrodite hexapod.

I checked TARDIS wiki before posting and they use "she". The Third Doctor refers to Alpha Centauri in the masculine. I don't think the "correct" pronouns are confirmed in any of the Peladon stories.

[JamesTC]

I am now fully up to date on all Doctor Who...

This really had the potential to be an all-time classic, sadly Twice Upon a Time is hamstrung by one striking element that blots the whole thing. Moffat can't resist certain jokes and this is probably the first time it properly pulls down a whole story.

The Five Doctors made a memorable joke about old-fashioned attitudes about the original incarnation and it was in keeping with his character because he did have the odd moment here and there (in over a hundred episodes). Juxtaposing that attitude against Tegan is hilarious. It was simple and used for one quick gag effectively. That is the point, one quick gag. Here Moffat includes more sexist moments from The First Doctor than we see in all of his era put together. It was almost a character assassination of an entire incarnation of The Doctor all in the service of a few lame gags. And of course we need to get a browser history joke in there too.

The most explicit of these gags is the one which refers specifically to a line of dialogue from an earlier episode, the "smacked bottom" line. The First Doctor is referring to his granddaughter after he had warned her to be careful and she hurt her ankle. Whilst it isn't the most enlightened of lines, the context is important. He wouldn't have said such a thing to Bill in the 60s.

I don't really get why The Doctor doesn't want to regenerate. The First Doctor is just scared because he has never done it before, so this makes sense. I wish there was more of a justification set up for The Twelfth Doctor not wanting to regenerate. But the fact that the story is all about teaching The Doctor that he should go on means it softens the fact that I do not like it when The Doctor doesn't want to regenerate. I was pleased that it wasn't changing faces that The Twelfth Doctor was worried about, it was just about continuing the burden of being The Doctor. Whether being The Doctor should be a burden within Doctor Who is another matter, but it certainly was during the Moffat era.

I pretty much adored everything else about it. Mark Gatiss was great. It was lovely for The Doctor to have his goodbye with Bill (she said her goodbye to him in the previous story). The cameo from Matt Lucas and Jenna Coleman was lovely. I even loved the post regeneration shot of the ring falling off The Doctor's finger but of course that era that follows does not exist. It looked amazing on the big screen in 4K.

I loved so much of it. But I feel so let down. I really don't understand why a Doctor Who fan would take this approach to The First Doctor.


Anyway, summary of the entire Moffat era.

Series 5 is still by far and away the best. This is the only series that runs close to any of my favourites of the Classic Series.

Series 6 and 10 are relatively strong in new series terms. They aren't reaching the heights of Series 5 or even Series 4 but they are still up there.

Series 7 is pretty good. Series 8 and 9, whilst better than 1-3, are still very hit-and-miss without any real standout highs.

I don't expect the next era of Doctor Who, which starts in 2023, to be up to any of the standard of the Moffat era. There was only actually one series of RTD Who that I really liked and that didn't feel like it was due to the approach, but rather due to a mix of a likeable companion with a fortunate run of strong stories. But what watching the Moffat era all the way through has made me think is that maybe I should go back to watching Doctor Who as it goes out. I needed time away from new Doctor Who being event TV to stop me having the high expectations that followed Series 5. I now know what I want to take from the show going forward.

That makes it look like I am being harsh and that I am saying that I have lowered my expectations. My perspective has only changed in the sense that I now understand that even when I'm not enjoying a run, or even when I am hating a run, there is always the chance that there will be a good story in there that I will cherish. I hate Season 24 but I will always think fondly of Delta and the Bannermen.

I think what I am trying to say is that Doctor Who always has the potential to be great even in a lacklustre era. Unless it is being written or showran by Chris Chibnall.