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Started by Lemming, May 11, 2021, 02:05:41 PM
Quote- It begins immediately - Shelby's set up an away team, and Riker's mad because he already set up a dream team.
Quote- Shelby comes up with a good idea at a meeting. Riker panics and snaps at her and demands that the meeting end immediately.
Quote- Look at the look Shelby gives Riker after he reminds her that the Borg have the ability to adapt. Yeah, really, I bet she didn't know that, being the Federation's foremost Borg specialist.
Quote from: kalowski on September 04, 2021, 11:35:45 PMEvil Cube who attack you on sight is beautiful. These fuckers seemed unstoppable. That's why I love this episode. Resistance really is futile.
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 05, 2021, 12:22:56 AMShelby wanted to pull an all nighter, and initially all the crew pull it with her, before she backs down to just her and Data when she's reminded that humans need to sleep. So she'd either be falling asleep in Troi's chair, or be full of stimulants, the following morning when the Borg attack for the sake of going through reams of technical data, which given how far the Borg area ahead of the Ent-D technologically will probably do fuck all for them. Riker is correct.
QuoteRIKER: Is there anything we can do here to adapt to our current defence systems?GEORDI: We'll have to go through the specs again, but I don't know. My mind's turned to clay.WESLEY: Mine too.SHELBY: I think we should look at modifying the plasma phaser design.RIKER: Commander, I think we should call it a night. That's an order. We'll reconvene at 0500.
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 05, 2021, 12:22:56 AMShelby is smugly congratulating herself about how the Enterprise's shields have the Borg's tractor beam confused, when Riker reminds her about the Borg adapting about 2 seconds before the Borg successfully do just that. As you say, the NEW DEFENCE CAPABILITIES lasted all of 5 seconds. Roles reversed you'd be saying "ha ha ha Riker is such a dumbass here. The writers must really hate him."
Quote from: mothman on September 03, 2021, 06:16:49 PMAn Earth-set drama about humanity Subliming - to use the Banksian term for evolving to a whole new plane of existence - but baseline humans trying to stop it out of sheer cuntery might be interesting. Similar things have been done of course, but usually they fall into the following categories:a) It's not immediately clear what is happening, or it's being done forcibly because of aliens or something, or scientists meddling in Things They Don't Understand.b) The state into which people are evolving is one of being utter cunts themselves and they want to either force others to do it before they're ready, or alternately just exterminate old humans.
Quote from: Cloud on September 05, 2021, 01:58:45 AMI always like Geordi doing a barrel roll under the UNPAUSABLE Engineering safety door.I'd try it, not have the right momentum to do more than half a roll and die in the radiation or whatever.
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 05, 2021, 12:22:56 AMOne of my favourite bits of acting, at least I assume it's acting and Stewart didn't just swallow a fly or something, is when Hansen is telling them about the ship that reported contact with the Borg, and Picard orders Data to go to the Bridge and set an intercept course. Listen to Stewart's delivery, the hurried, slightly cracking voice, subtly shows that Picard is likely shitting himself as there's a good chance he's ordered Data to set course for their death.
Quote from: Zetetic on September 05, 2021, 10:33:11 AMIs the position of The Culture basically b) ? Insofar as subliming, at least on a civilisational scale, is seen as a bit of a cop-out?But then I suppose it's a bit of an open question of cunty The Culture is.
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 05, 2021, 12:22:56 AMI know the Riker criticism is at least partly for the lulz, but you're overreaching in a few places here, imo:
Quote from: Lemming on September 05, 2021, 01:44:26 AMI do think Shelby is a ridiculous person, the culmination of which is her giving Worf an order that contradicts Riker's immediate prior order (I still can't get over how Worf actually appears to obey this), and that Riker is, at least in the first half, very forbearing towards her in a way that she doesn't earn. I suppose we're meant to see her as someone who takes initiative and gets things done, but she comes across more like she thinks she's the captain of the ship.
Quote from: mothman on September 06, 2021, 08:02:08 PMThe first and second officers are there to oversee the running of the ship, sweating the small stuff basically so the captain doesn't have to. It helps in this case that the second officer is also the Operations officer (which given he also acts as effective Science officer - despite not being in the Science division - may be a reflection of the Ent-D's Science mission; that said, Voyager was notionally a Science vessel too and yet Harry as Ops officer wasn't second officer, in fact he was the junior officer on the bridge). This is why you'll often hear Riker ordering shields raised, though it does beg the question, suppose Picard as overall commander didn't want shields raised in case it escalated a tense situation?
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 06, 2021, 08:42:26 PMData was apparently supposed to get a blue science division uniform (they hadn't overthought Ops as a station at this point) but they didn't like how it looked once they settled on the yellow make up. Idk how true that is.
Quote from: Lemming on September 06, 2021, 09:49:43 PMYou can kind of see the dynamic that's maybe intended to exist - Picard is unapproachable and aloof, while Riker is the friendly face of command who the crew can interact with freely and raise concerns with, and then Riker is able to give Picard a picture of where the crew stands. The crew should feel like Riker's their best mate and that he's the person who speaks on their behalf in command meetings. Doesn't work at all and never comes across on screen for many reasons, but there's still the occasional line telling us about Riker's famous "joviality" and the crew's fondness for him, both of which we virtually never see.
Quote from: mothman on September 06, 2021, 10:35:42 PMIt's Command division that's really all over the place. We've seen all sorts in gold and (later) red. The only not-actual-command people we can consistently nail down in terms of role are helmsmen (and, briefly, navigators). The assorted Enterprises and Voyager were helmed by Command types; but all sorts flew the Defiant. And DSC is the worst offender of all - all the secondary bridge crew (Detmer, Owosekun, Rhys, Bryce) are Operations (bronze originally, looks like back to gold in the upcoming season). But If they're trying to embrace a stricter definition of "Command Division" then why isn't Tilly, on the "Command Program," in gold (originally) or red (in season 4)?
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 06, 2021, 11:41:03 PMAgain, allegedly command being swapped from gold to red was a decision made after doing screen tests with the TNG crew. Red suited Stewart and Frakes better than yellow, so they swapped the command division colours with engineering / security. Incidentally, a lot of sources suggest the TOS gold uniforms (or at least Kirk's) were actually green and a combination of the studio lighting and the type of film used made them appear gold on broadcasts. His 'alternate' uniforms - his dress uniform and the 'wraparound' style tunic - do appear green.
QuoteAnother quirk involving the original series' tunics were the colors - in particular, "command." Trekkies everywhere will swear Spock wore blue, Scotty wore red and Kirk wore gold. Wrong. The three Starfleet colors were blue, red and green. Lime green, to be exact. "It was one of those film stock things;" Theiss states, "it photographed one way - burnt orange or a gold. But in reality was another; the command shirts were definitely green." As further proof, look at the wrap-around tunics as well as the dress uniform tunics of Kirk's – all green. They came off as their true colors because they were constructed of different materials than the standard duty command shirts.
QuoteThis is why you'll often hear Riker ordering shields raised, though it does beg the question, suppose Picard as overall commander didn't want shields raised in case it escalated a tense situation?
Quote from: mothman on September 07, 2021, 12:54:38 AMmeticulously analysed
Quote from: earl_sleek on September 07, 2021, 08:29:10 AM"BELAY THAT ORDAH MR WORF!"(shot of RIKER looking nonplussed)
Quote from: Lemming on September 07, 2021, 12:31:36 AM- You have to love the absolutely limpdicked conclusion to "Mr Worf... FIRE"! Oop, the shot didn't do anything, that's that. Locutus tells everyone that resistance is futile. It's time for an emergency conference room meeting. Starfleet has sent 40 starships to Wolf 359, and made sure to place Jennifer Sisko directly beneath the most collapse-prone ceiling. Riker gains a field promotion to Captain.
Quote from: Lemming on September 07, 2021, 12:31:36 AM- Guinan's "time to get stuck in to someone's emotional crisis" senses start tingling, and she homes in on the ready room where Riker is fretting and talking to a chair. Guinan tells Riker to get into gear and forget about Picard, because it's Captain Riker time. Again, I really like Guinan and Goldberg's fantastic half-warm half-eerie performance, but you'd think that stopping the new captain from having a breakdown would be Troi's job. Not least because of her personal relationship with Riker.
Quote from: Lemming on September 07, 2021, 12:31:36 AMThis actually is a bit punchier than the first half, and it's enjoyable to watch but I'm confused by huge parts of it. Not sure if it's the episode's fault or my own lack of listening comprehension, but I couldn't tell you what the fuck is going on during the big scene where the SAUCER SEP happens. Why do the Borg ignore the saucer? Why do they let the shuttle through? They have no problem blowing up other Starfleet vessels on sight, including three which are all simultaneously destroyed on the way to Earth, so why do they give the Enterprise such an easy ride? The episode implies that the plan works because the Borg have taken on Picard's knowledge, and Riker is able to formulate a plan that manipulates that fact, but surely Picard would know to fire on the vulnerable and defenceless saucer section because a) it's definitely a ruse and it's been identified as such and b) there's no reason not to take 0.5 seconds to destroy half of the flagship with a single torpedo. Combined with Locutus' ridiculous "you cannot distract me. let me give you my full attention for 10 minutes to explain why you cannot possibly distract me" stuff, it feels like the Borg are artificially nerfed to let the Enterprise triumph in an otherwise-impossible encounter.
Quote from: Lemming on September 07, 2021, 12:31:36 AMIt's thematically odd for this episode, specifically - Guinan tells Riker he'll have to let Picard go and step up to the role himself, and then the rest of the episode is about desperately retrieving Picard at all costs so that Riker can revert to his previous position.
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 07, 2021, 10:31:38 AMAnyhow, overall BoBW as a two parter is an excellent episode and I give it 11/10, which I would represent with 11 smug Rikers if I was bothered making them.
Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on September 07, 2021, 10:31:38 AMThe irony is not lost, but they weren't going to kill off Picard, although that was rumoured at the time.
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