Succession season 3

[Blue Jam]

Superb episode. I'm glad it ended on a downer for Ken, as the secondhand embarrassment was getting a bit much. His people really need to rein him in.

Oh yes, I loved the running thing of Kendall trying to show how good-humoured and thick-skinned he was, how he was up for being roasted, then being completely unable to handle anything more than the mildest ribbing. His lackeys playing "Good Tweet Bad Tweet" and one of them stepping out of line by reading out a tweet mentioning his drug problems was great.

Anyone else wondering if Greg may be a dark horse here? Uncle Ewan gets him a crap lawyer, Tom moves him to a crap office, Kendall helps a mate scam him into buying an expensive dud of a watch he can't really afford. Meek and naive as he is how long before the lack of respect makes him snap and do something rash with those copies of the cruise ship documents?

[Blue Jam]

Logan's suggestion that Waystar Royco tell the FBI to "fuck off"... brilliant.

[Blue Jam]

In case any other watch nerds were wondering, Greg's $40,000 watch is apparently a Rolex Deepsea Sea Dweller (RRP: $15,000 - $20,000):

https://www.wristenthusiast.com/latest/2021/10/15/the-watches-of-succession-hbos-hit-show-succession



Poor bastard.

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

I really enjoyed

Spoiler alert

Roman having to remember a treasured childhood memory with his dad. Coming up with a fishing trip, only for it to turn out to have been Connor that took him. Not only that, Logan called him a f*g for even saying something nice about him. Devastating. Fantastic acting from Kieran Culkin in that moment, to quote the simpsons, you can literally pinpoint the moment his heart breaks.

[close]

. Poor sod.

[Blue Jam]

I really enjoyed

Spoiler alert

Roman having to remember a treasured childhood memory with his dad. Coming up with a fishing trip, only for it to turn out to have been Connor that took him. Not only that, Logan called him a f*g for even saying something nice about him. Devastating. Fantastic acting from Kieran Culkin in that moment, to quote the simpsons, you can literally pinpoint the moment his heart breaks.

[close]

. Poor sod.

I didn't have a problem with all of Roman's cracking wise last week, but I was still glad to see it dialled back a bit for this episode. Great to see Kieran Culkin being given more to do than just being the comic relief, and as you said he was great here, he's so good at doing the whole sad clown thing in this.

The pre-interview prep session was so desperately sad, starting off with Roman making puking noises and looking bored and giving the PR guy his usual childishness before it became apparent that he had no cherished childhood memories of his dad, or even any perfectly mundane ones, and it became more like a much-overdue therapy session- "So, let's talk about your childhood..."

...and then Logan calling him a f****t for being all "Oooooooh, I love you dad"- maybe Roman inherited a bit of that same childishness, but that was so much nastier, even before you consider that Roman did the whole show of loving his father on Logan's request and purely for his benefit. Even in a family as fucked up as the Roys a child loving their parents and seeking their approval is the most natural thing in the world and seeing Logan coldly dismiss all that was heartbreaking.

The PR guy asking Roman how his father may have influenced him to succeed in business was interesting, because of course Logan actually has influenced his children there, but mainly by encouraging them to be as ruthless and disloyal as he is. Bit hard to describe that and make it sound loving.

Not much Connor again this week- is it me, or has he been relegated to a background character? I'm sure he was much more present in the first two seasons. Even if the Presidential bid won't be happening it'd be nice to see a bit more of him being a bumbling useless disappointment.

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

...and then Logan calling him a f****t for being all "Oooooooh, I love you dad"- maybe Roman inherited a bit of that same childishness, but that was so much nastier, even before you consider that Roman did the whole show of loving his father on Logan's request and purely for his benefit. Even in a family as fucked up as the Roys a child loving their parents and seeking their approval is the most natural thing in the world and seeing Logan coldly dismiss all that was heartbreaking.

Exactly. Despite all the bravado, he still does everything he can to help Logan, no matter how debasing or traumatic and all he gets in return are more insults. The quick look he gave when Logan called him a f*g shows how utterly defeated he is. The confirmation that nothing he ever does will be good enough.

[Better Midlands]

I hadn't considered this, I thought it must have been speakers that Kendall requested when he airdropped his shopping list.

...about the speakers in Kendall's office, linking it to Logan's fake concern for 'Pinkie', I agree that Logan set it up to harden Shiv against her brother.

[Blue Jam]

Currently at the Assembly Rooms waiting to be told to fuck off. Seeing this as the prelude to Stratagem.

;) Nah, should be an entertaining evening, will report back.

[Blue Jam]

...well that was a cracking night out. It was such a thrill to see Logan Roy himself in the flesh, and he was really engaging and entertaining and the interview bit just flew by. He was generally very twinkly and funny and charming, but the audience were also treated to a glimpse of his intimidating presence. When he got to the Succession stuff he mentioned being approached by this starry-eyed teenage couple in New York and how that ended up being the very first request he had to tell some fans to "FUCK OFF". Massive cheer as he shouted those words at all of us. Then he described being at a #MeToo event where lots of female celebrities made the same request and how wrong it seemed to be "this white dinosaur" getting asked to harass women at an event against the harassment of women... all very amusing but I got the impression it was also a hint that he didn't want to have to say it again to a few hundred more fans.

I didn't dare ask, didn't go in for a bit of a chat either, just got my book signed and got a pic and said a polite thank you and let him be. Still chuffed to be able to say I have officially been told to FUCK OFF by Logan Roy though.

Book is a lot of fun so far, I did have a giggle at David Bowie being "a bad actor but fortunately a better pop star" and there's a good bit about being at Central School of Speech and Drama with Bruce Robinson and some chap called Vivian McKerrell. A bit about Princess Margaret being rather forward with him too, as she tended to be. Lovely stuff.

[Blue Jam]

Also he said he would be heading over to Glesga for COP26 today, so look out for him telling climate change to fuck off.

High chance he'll bump into the other Brian Cox as well.

[Deliciousbass]

Honestly not enjoying this at all - every character is incompetent to the point of breaking credibility. It's miserably English. There's zero tension

[Waking Life]

Honestly not enjoying this at all - every character is incompetent to the point of breaking credibility. It's miserably English. There's zero tension

I think that they have dialled back the tension in the first few episodes, but expect it to build again (with the FBI being the start). On the incompetence point though, I actually think it's spot on, given real life politics at least. Obviously they are caricatures with an endless array of witticisms (which, funny as they are, gives it a slightly staged feel), but the incompetence part is the most believable.

It's funny because it's the natural successor to The Thick of It (even compared to Veep), a lot of which now feels slightly tame compared to current politics (resigning matter? lying to the Select Committee? lol). Whereas I would share your view on Succession had it come out at the same time as The Thick of It. I didn't appreciate how much Armstrong likely helped to shape The Thick of It, or it maybe just helped him develop the style, although there are still shades of Peep Show too.

[Deliciousbass]

I think that they have dialled back the tension in the first few episodes, but expect it to build again (with the FBI being the start).

Thinking about it, watching it on a week to week basis might be making it feel slower than it actually is. i loved the first two series but tearing through them during lockdown may have hampered my sense of how the show is actually paced.

On the incompetence point though, I actually think it's spot on, given real life politics at least. Obviously they are caricatures with an endless array of witticisms (which, funny as they are, gives it a slightly staged feel), but the incompetence part is the most believable.

I think you're right in so far as that's what they're going for and the Veep comparison certainly rings true. But i do believe that set up works far better for comedy than drama. A big part of what i love about Succession is how, at its best, it manages to be totally gripping as well as genuinely funny. The incompetency bothers me because i think it makes the action a lot less interesting; why does it matter who takes hold of the company if they're just going to fuck it up anyway? May be misremembering but i'm sure Kendal was presented as deeply flawed but more or less fit for the job in the first season, he now comes across as someone who can barely hold a conversation without it blowing up in his face. i just don't buy him as a serious rival to Logan. i'll admit though that the incompetency could actually be true to life (particularly when family is involved).

One of the things i really appreciated about Better Call Saul is that Jimmy is legitimately a good lawyer. It made his character so much more interesting and opened up a ton of possible story avenues.

Also he said he would be heading over to Glesga for COP26 today, so look out for him telling climate change to fuck off.

Really enjoyed your write up of the evening - thank you!

[selectivememory]

May be misremembering but i'm sure Kendal was presented as deeply flawed but more or less fit for the job in the first season, he now comes across as someone who can barely hold a conversation without it blowing up in his face. i just don't buy him as a serious rival to Logan.

I actually can't remember whether they've shown him taking drugs yet this season, but given this is following on immediately from the events of the second season, I think we can assume he's not cleaned up his act yet. He seemed much more in control and competant in the early parts of the first season before he fell off the wagon, but since then he's either been depressive or manic, and when he's manic his behaviour is extremely embarrassing. Seems he might have hit a wall though in the latest episode, so it'll be interesting to see if he's more restrained in the next few.

I dunno if he's a genuine rival to Logan, but Logan should be screwed either way now, regardless of how plausible Ken is as a potential replacement.

[AllisonSays]

I guess for me the question of competency is irrelevant, up to a point, in a way that reflects the realities of contemporary capitalism. Kendall's business pitches might be teeth-grindingly inane, vapid, contentless, logically inconsistent, or whatever - Logan Roy might still want to invest in 'dead' technologies and newspapers even if that's not likely to make a profit anymore - but the company's too big to fail, there's too much ossified labour invested into it for it not to 'succeed'. It's written in the context of a world in which the genuinely, compellingly, scream-inducingly stupid Elon Musk is by some measures the richest person ever to have lived. So competency is kind of irrelevant for me in the sense that they're all just fulfilling their telos of rich people becoming richer; Thomas Piketty and others have shown this kind of rentier capitalist model where you just get more things because you had so many things in the first place is the story of late capitalism, which is why as well as being violent and horrible it's also really fucking annoying - there's no need to be competent, thoughtful, daring, brutal or whatever any more, they're all just playing their wee games while the money pours in. Hence, also, the ennui, I think.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

There were clues of Kendall jumping head first towards the latest fad or buzzword in the pilot, when he wants to close the acquisition of Internet company Vaulter, even when the founder started to inflate the price. He was so desperate to show that he was turning the group towards the future of media, and to impress his father, that he made glaring mistakes, bought an empty shell and a team who doesn't hide his contempt towards him. That was indeed one of the reasons for which his father refused to step down, as he had followed the negotiations from a distance and had to give final approval.
Now that Kendall is on his own, he embraces new media with a vengeance, given that his father embodies old media, but his take is murky at best.

But, then, so was Mark Zuckerberg's presentation from last week about the "metaverse".

[Blue Jam]

Great posts again guys.

For me the issue of competence is also irrelevant. Logan Roy himself may have been a competent businessman (even if his bullying ways seem old-fashioned and aren't as effective as they once were) but that doesn't mean he has some kind of competence gene he's passed on to his children. What's that saying about how it takes three generations to ruin a family business? Well, for Waystar Royco it may only take two. I guess Connor could count as the second generation, being old enough to have lived through the earlier days of WR and watched how his father kept things ticking over, but he's so useless and has so obviously learned nothing thay we may as well skip a generation. The children from Logan's second marriage could count as the third generation- Shiv for example knows nothing of the cruise ship scandal because she was 13 at the time, and she also knows nothing about how her father was able to run a successful media empire.

As AllisonSays posted, Waystar Royco is too big to fail and so are Logan's children. They have never known failure, they can't contemplate failure, and failure is not an option. Nepotism aside, they're among the Piers Morgans, Peter Mandelsons, Boris Johnsons and Matt Hancocks of this world- no matter how badly they fuck up, or how unfair it may seem, there will always be a lucrative job waiting for them somewhere because they're entitled to it dammit, and there will always be people wanting to schmooze them and uphold that system of entitlement and unfairness for their own ends.

If it's a Better Call Saul comparison you want, the Roy children are like Howard Hamlin. Jimmy was motivated to become a comptent lawyer by a desire for wealth and respect and through being painfully aware of what it's like to have absolutely zilch of both. The Roys have never known anything but wealth and respect and they aren't motivated to try and cling onto it because they can't begin to imagine a life without it. Howard Hamlin is, to quote Jimmy, "a shitty lawyer", but that doesn't matter when your daddy is George Hamlin, mates with the great Chuck McGill, and can employ you as a wastepaper basket.

[Deliciousbass]

If it's a Better Call Saul comparison you want, the Roy children are like Howard Hamlin. Jimmy was motivated to become a comptent lawyer by a desire for wealth and respect and through being painfully aware of what it's like to have absolutely zilch of both ... Howard Hamlin is, to quote Jimmy, "a shitty lawyer", but that doesn't matter when your daddy is George Hamlin, mates with the great Chuck McGill, and can employ you as a wastepaper basket.

Except Hamlin isn't incompetent he's just totally unremarkable. He's pretty consistently shown to be an effective 'face' of the company, a good counterweight to Chuck's total lack of warmth, and someone who understands that world. Apart from Jimmy hurling spite at him, I don't think he's really shown as being a bad lawyer?

As far as the Roy kids... i'm not sure. Reading through the last couple of posts I could come around to the idea that if you're born into that degree of wealth and privilege then you're effectively cushioned from any consequences your actions may have, and competency is just an afterthought. But I'd maintain that this, for me at least, saps a lot of the drama from the show. Again I feel like the earlier seasons did a better job of balancing this out with quite intense internal conflicts for Kendall and Shiv.

[AllisonSays]

I get what you're saying about it sapping the drama and I kind of agree; I guess I'm in it for the texture, the language and the expression of that system of entitlement Blue Jam is describing, rather than the basically circular and unsatisfying plot.

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

Don't know if this has been posted previously, but I enjoyed it, great editing.

https://youtu.be/_b7CNBXzo54

[AllisonSays]

Very good edit, also the best dynamic in a show full of good actors acting the fuck out of their dynamic. I think because they're both slightly outside of the world of the siblings, I dunno, but fuck me they are so funny together in the world of the show. Christopher and Paulie in the sopranos but sustained for much longer.

[AllisonSays]

Although he's also just a great actor, my favourite line in the thing is when he says to an impassive Conor about his gf's play 'I had great seats but I think there's something living  maybe thriving in the sand'. Such a writer's line, that thriving bit but he sells the fuck out of it.

[Vitalstatistix]

Don't know if this has been posted previously, but I enjoyed it, great editing.

https://youtu.be/_b7CNBXzo54

This is very amusing, thanks.

I think there's something living  maybe thriving in the sand'. Such a writer's line, that thriving bit but he sells the fuck out of it.

Forgot about that. Wonderful stuff. Chuckling just thinking about it.

[chveik]

lol are people already done with this show

thought this was a good one.

Spoiler alert

didn't expect greg to 'change sides' that quickly.

[close]

the awkwardness between the lads was really well done, not really convinced by brody's acting tbh though. next ep looks will be pretty eventful

[Blue Jam]

Quite a subdued one this week despite the drama with Logan threatening to have another stroke. Kendall taking advantage of Logan struggling to catch his breath and calling the old geezer out while he couldn't speak was a highlight. The Roys sure do love kicking each other while they're down.

"You've got Shiv in charge and she's a dipshit"- I got the impression Shiv was being kicked upstairs and it certainly looked like Madame President was ineffectual. She's not even holding any sway over her husband as he frets over the possibility of going to prison.

Good to see more Connor this week and I loved the image of little Shiv with her "play post office", stamping all the mail they recieved: "This is a bit like that isn't it Shiv?"

Shiv can't intimidate Connor either- how can Logan expect her to intimidate the actual President of the United States when she can't even intimidate a man with mere delusions of being President? Love Connor wearing his little stars and stripes pin- hahahaha what a twat.

Spoiler alert

"I'd castrate you and marry you in a heartbeat."

[close]

- hahahaha fucking hell Tom. I enjoyed his unravelling at the thought of being "in the dungeon sucking off ogres for phonecards".

Gerri's dating. Awwwww poor Roman.

Has Greg gone from being offered a shitty lawyer, a shitty office and a shitty watch to getting a shitty deal from Logan? Whatever he's signed up for I bet he'll be disappointed yet again.

[selectivememory]

It does baffle me why someone like Greg doesn't just ask for a shitload of money for his allegiance and then get as far away from these people as possible. I guess he enjoys the proximity to power as well, and the possibility that he might have some someday. Maybe being obscenely rich makes you bored of everything.

Good episode anyway. Enjoyed all the more low-key stuff with Shiv in her largely make-believe position, Roman and the tattoo guy, and Tom researching "toilet wine."  It is funny how Connor can see Shiv's job for what it is, while still being utterly deluded about his own presidential ambitions.

[Blue Jam]

Really enjoyed your write up of the evening - thank you!

Heh, thanks! I guess it's time I posted some questionable photographic evidence:



I like the way this has a "World's most intimidating Father Christmas" vibe.

I've just remembered Brian Cox's words about how he likes working with child actors "because they don't have the same baggage as the rest of us" and singled out Kieran Culkin for praise. He also talked about how he doesn't think Logan Roy is an evil man, more of a misunderstood one, and in his work as an acting coach the one bit of advice he gives to all actors is to bring in a picture of themselves as a child, because "Every character, from Churchill to Hannibal Lector to Logan Roy, was a child once", how no-one is inherently evil and there's always a journey and life events that shape every character. Also how he doesn't like "cancel culture" because we all go through events that shape our views, we all make mistakes when we're young, and now it's like no-one is allowed to have made a minor mistake ten years ago when they were younger and more stupid.

He talked quite a bit about social justice and politics too. He talked of how the 1960's was possibly the most socially mobile time in UK history, a time when a young person from any background could go to drama school and not only not pay fees, but get a grant to do it, and how freeing it is to live in London (can relate). He also talked of the interview for his first theatre job, at a small rep theatre in Dundee, and how he had to squeeze past two drunk blokes (one a quite well-known stage actor and one a crew person) having a drunken fight at 10am on the stairwell, and then the theatre manager asking "Are you alright darling?" and how that showed how egalitarian the theatre was back then. I did like the bit about him asking a cleaner for directions to the office: "Ye cannae go roond the front, ye've got tae go roond the back tae get tae the front", which was a nice little maxim. Back on the subject of Dundee, he agreed with an audience member that the "Hearts vs Hibs" thing was a bit baffling for a Dundonian character, though he refused to confirm whether he was Dundee or United.

Ahead of COP26 the next day he was interviewed by Nicky Campbell for BBC 5 Live, and said he's like to tell Boris Johnson to "Fuck off", plus some words about Jeremy Corbyn I don't dare post in the Labour thread:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/brian-cox-boris-johnson-succession-25364865

[Blue Jam]

It is funny how Connor can see Shiv's job for what it is, while still being utterly deluded about his own presidential ambitions.

Ha, yes, great observation!

It does baffle me why someone like Greg doesn't just ask for a shitload of money for his allegiance and then get as far away from these people as possible. I guess he enjoys the proximity to power as well, and the possibility that he might have some someday. Maybe being obscenely rich makes you bored of everything.

He also had Ewan Roy threatening to write him out of his will unless he quit working for Waystar, and iirc doing as Ewan asked would have netted him some crazy money like $250 million, but again, can he trust Ewan when Ewan himself is a complete hypocrite who is supposedly against everything Waystar stands for but won't surrender his seat on the board?

Or maybe Greg has seen what has become of Connor, taking the money and doing his own thing but being left with absolutely no respect from his family. Maybe Greg's so desperate to win a bit of respect from them that he'd rather be embroiled in the whole grubby cruise ship affair than be seen as the lazy useless relative who is nonetheless loving life on his ranch.

I think you're right, Greg wants some power even if it's just a very vague ambition of his. He's aware he has some leverage and could have some power if only he knew how to use it. Instead he's just cluelessly bouncing around between allegiances as he tries to figure it out.

I did like Logan offering him a drink and Greg not doing the sensible thing and refusing, or at least asking for a whisky or cognac, and instead asking for something as unsophisticated as a rum and coke- all the good stuff Logan must have in the drinks cabinet and he wants a mixed drink? Then the note of disdain in Logan's voice as he called out to "Get Greg a Coca-Cola".

And his watered-down drink was still too stiff for him. Bit of Peep Show DNA there perhaps, a bit like Mark trying to drink "urgggghh, horrible whisky" at the hotel bar "because I can't exactly ask for a chocolate milkshake can I"?

It's also pretty rich for the other Roys to be sneering at how gauche Greg is when we've seen how unsophisticated and uncultured and immature they all are. Shiv's not moved on that far from playing with her toy post office...

[Jack Shaftoe]

There were a couple of bits that felt very peep show - I think that and Tom panicking about prison life. Now I'm thinking how strange it would be if David Mitchell were to pop up as a lawyer or something.

I'm less interested in the show now it's gone a bit Dallas - I liked all that happening round the edges while the real pressure was arranging a stag do for Tom or something, but I appreciate the show has to keep moving forwards. Also I'm never sure if Shiv is supposed to be rubbish or not, she does get treated badly, but she's quite happy to pile in and threaten that Tucker Carlson-type guy and seemed to get the job done.

[Blue Jam]

although there are still shades of Peep Show too.

I was going to ask you to expand on this, because I couldn't see it myself, but now I can't help noticing little things, like the stiff drink and, as Jack Shaftoe said, Tom worrying about prison. I guess buying "a big book on the Romans to read in prison" is exactly what Mark Corrigan would do.

Also I'm never sure if Shiv is supposed to be rubbish or not, she does get treated badly, but she's quite happy to pile in and threaten that Tucker Carlson-type guy and seemed to get the job done.

I think the main issue with Shiv is that she hasn't worked for Waystar before and has no experience of working in media. Perhaps we saw a bit of her background in politics coming through this week and maybe she has some strengths there that will come in handy.

Thinking about it now it's also funny that the kicked-upstairs Shiv was in turn trying to kick Connor upstairs by offering him a job at a food network: "Maybe you could do a wine tasting show?".