Doctor Who Series 13: Goodbye, Mr. Chibs

[mjwilson]

Just realised that the special for the BBC centenary is going to revolve around the Doctor travelling back to the founding of the BBC (and probably coming up with the idea herself).

[mothman]

The Doctor plays a key role (behind the scenes) in getting Sidney Newman to agree to repeat the first episode after the Kennedy Assassination.

[dissolute ocelot]

The last I looked, it went back to about 1973, but didn't start getting really common till the early 1980s.

A Google Books search for hiding behind the sofa doctor who shows a reference from Punch in 1984, but it's only a snippet not full text so I can't quite make out what they're saying. Not related to Dr Who, the Radio Times in 1972 has Ronnie Barker talking about children hiding behind the sofa, but no idea of the context. Boo to Google.

[Replies From View]

Yet another inspiring example of The Passion of the Chris. Molten creativity flows through that man's veins.

Interestingly, veins is an anagram of venis

[Replies From View]

The Doctor plays a key role (behind the scenes) in getting Sidney Newman to agree to repeat the first episode after the Kennedy Assassination.

We joke, but Chibnall is exactly the kind of shit writer who'd think a meta story along these lines, the Doctor finding out she is irreparably fictional, would be a fantastically unique and commendable way to celebrate the BBC's 100th.

[Huxleys Babkins]

"The bit at the end of An Adventure in Space and Time where Hartnell can see Matt Smith but real."

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

We joke, but Chibnall is exactly the kind of shit writer who'd think a meta story along these lines, the Doctor finding out she is irreparably fictional, would be a fantastically unique and commendable way to celebrate the BBC's 100th.

He is. Frightening really. All of Chibnall's 'clever' ideas are the sort of thing any reasonable, competent writer would entertain for about 30 seconds before laughing at themselves for even thinking about them in the first place.

I know this thread must look weirdly monomaniacal when it comes to criticism of Chibnall, but he's a borderline fascinating case.

[Replies From View]

He would be fascinating if he wasn't so thuddingly dull.  After thirty seconds you realise the idea of dwelling on him any longer has the power to send you into a coma.

[daf]

Boo to Google.

[Mister Six]

We joke, but Chibnall is exactly the kind of shit writer who'd think a meta story along these lines, the Doctor finding out she is irreparably fictional, would be a fantastically unique and commendable way to celebrate the BBC's 100th.

Could just say that our world reflects The Doctor's (still entirely real) universe. Paul Cornell did it in a comic and it was absolutely lovely.

But obviously, yes, Chibnall's would still be shite for every other conceivable reason.

Plus, Supernatural already did it for one of their anniversary episodes.

[Malcy]

https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1428140303655989252

So if the BBC don't find anyone they'll consider him?

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

He would be fascinating if he wasn't so thuddingly dull.  After thirty seconds you realise the idea of dwelling on him any longer has the power to send you into a coma.

I did say 'borderline fascinating'. As in the self-aware difference betweeen finding something vaguely worthy of thought while simultaneously realising that you're wasting your time.

[Replies From View]

Plus, Supernatural already did it for one of their anniversary episodes.

So have Red Dwarf and League of Gentlemen.  Hence it's not only shit but jaw-droppingly overdone and tired. 

What's weird is how clever writers of meta-fiction think they are being.  They can't hide their smugness as they serve the shittest content in all the universe.  Enter Chris Chibnall, and the singular idea he is guaranteed to have remaining by this point.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1428140303655989252

So if the BBC don't find anyone they'll consider him?

They've already found someone. Straczynski sounds a bit odd.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

So have Red Dwarf and League of Gentlemen.  It's not only shit but jaw-droppingly overdone and tired. 

What's weird is how clever writers of meta-fiction think they are being.  They can't hide their smugness as they serve the shittest content in all the universe.  Enter Chris Chibnall, and the singular idea he is guaranteed to have remaining by this point.

One of the best TV examples of meta-fiction is the Seinfeld season in which Jerry and George wrote a sitcom. It wasn't self-congratulatory in the slightest, it poked fun at the show itself while mocking the entire process of producing a sitcom for American network TV in the 1990s.

Sort of like what series two of Extras tried to do, but written by clever, funny people with a certain degree of humility.

The thought of Chibnall - who doesn't appear to have a sense of humour - trying something like that. Well, can you imagine? Christ.

[mothman]

They've already found someone. Straczynski sounds a bit odd.

He's on the spectrum, certainly. But he's not got form for making baseless claims, especially when what he says could be contradicted by what we think the situation is, so who knows?

[purlieu]

Meta-fiction can be great, and even Doctor Who meta-fiction can be great (Steve Lyons's wonderful novel Conundrum being a fine example). But it always has to be brave enough to poke fun at itself to work, and, ultimately, it should never interfere with the show's internal logic and overall premise.

[Midas]

Narcissistic, self-satisfied 'ooh-aren't-I-clever?' material can be unbearably tiresome, but I like meta-fiction when the writer dignifies their self-awareness by using it as the means to explore complex thematic ideas. Robert Shearman's Deadline would be my ideal special, for example. The horrors of isolationism! ;)

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

He's on the spectrum, certainly. But he's not got form for making baseless claims, especially when what he says could be contradicted by what we think the situation is, so who knows?

I've never heard of him before. Apologies, I must've sounded quite insensitve there.

[JamesTC]

Rob Shearman's Jubilee also has some fun meta elements. Top notch story it is too. One of my all time favourites.

Absolute travesty that he only ever written one TV story. He probably has the best hit rate of any Doctor Who writer.

[mothman]

I've never heard of him before. Apologies, I must've sounded quite insensitve there.

Well, maybe a bit, but I got the point you were making. ;-)

IF he got the gig (I doubt he will), it'd be interesting to see how his online interactions changed. He's been interacting with the fandom since the early 90s, but would that survive the level of exposure this would bring him? He is quite dogmatic about never being sent story ideas, and thousands of rabid Whovians wound probably be too much for anybody to deal with.

[Alberon]

It was a different online world back in the 90s, so I doubt he'd be able to interact with fans like he did back in the B5 days.

I'd like to see him tackle Doctor Who. His dialogue can be atrocious at times, but he planned and executed a proper five-season arc (if compromised by sqaushing into four season) rather than just making it up as he went along which seems to be considered the best way to do things by most other showrunners for some reason.

Probably won't be him even if current negotiations break down. I doubt the BBC could afford him.

[Replies From View]

I'd like to see him tackle Doctor Who. His dialogue can be atrocious at times, but he planned and executed a proper five-season arc (if compromised by sqaushing into four season) rather than just making it up as he went along which seems to be considered the best way to do things by most other showrunners for some reason.

On that level I think showrunners routinely get the blame for a decision that is out of their hands.  I don't think the BBC ever commissions 5 series of Doctor Who in one go.  Somebody might be able to get some precise evidence of contract, but a 5 series arc (spanning 8 or 9 years don't forget, due to the BBC seeking one series per 18 months) would require a lot of foresight from a department that probably can't think that far ahead.

I'd be quite certain that series 11 being shorter on self-eating fan wank was less to do with Chibnall making intelligent choices regarding the show's accessibility to newcomers, and more to do with him maybe being commissioned one series (like RTD was only commissioned one series at first), and then 12 and 13 in one go. 


Happy to be proved wrong on these points.

[Alberon]

Babylon 5 was only ever commisioned one season at a time. New Who has enjoyed far more certainty about its future (or at least it has had). JMS just went for it. Only in B5's penultimate year did he compress the arc to get it all in as a fifth season seemed unlikely. Fortunately (unfortunately?) it then got its fifth season but didn't have much story to fill it with.

[purlieu]

Yeah, the season 5 was basically trying to spread out half a season's worth of story over a whole run, on the grounds that he thought he'd probably have to do the opposite (compressing it into a film). It's a shame, because otherwise it's possibly the best paced TV show ever made.

I doubt he'd want to do that kind of thing for Doctor Who, of course, but it definitely shows his dedication to putting all his effort into making a strong, consistent show. Even if he's never done anything quite as strong as B5, his work since has been similar in there never being a sense of fucking around or not knowing what he's doing.

[mothman]

On the affordability question, I get the impression this is something he'd really like to do, so barring the BBC's going rate for a showrunner being so insultingly far below what one would get in the US (and I'd bet that rate varies massively depending on the show anyway), I'd guess it wouldn't be an issue.

[olliebean]

Could just say that our world reflects The Doctor's (still entirely real) universe. Paul Cornell did it in a comic and it was absolutely lovely.

But obviously, yes, Chibnall's would still be shite for every other conceivable reason.

Plus, Supernatural already did it for one of their anniversary episodes.

So did Stargate. So, very recently, did American Horror Stories, in a way so perfunctorily shit that even Chibnall would probably have looked it over and decided it needed a couple more drafts.

[Huxleys Babkins]

"Terry, it's Marvin. Your cousin, Marvin Nation. You know that new alien you're looking for? Well, listen to this!"

[Mister Six]

Babylon 5 was only ever commisioned one season at a time. New Who has enjoyed far more certainty about its future (or at least it has had). JMS just went for it. Only in B5's penultimate year did he compress the arc to get it all in as a fifth season seemed unlikely. Fortunately (unfortunately?) it then got its fifth season but didn't have much story to fill it with.

The advantage that US networks have is that they can lock actors into 5-year (or longer) contracts by promising them big cash if the series is successful. The BBC, as far as I'm aware, doesn't have that luxury, which is why you end up with situations like Moffat having to plan a 50th anniversary special with only Jenna Coleman as a contracted star.

So even if JMS didn't know he'd be getting a second season, he could at least be assured that if it did come, he'd have specific actors in their roles, and so plan whole five-season arcs for them.

Can't do that with Who - which is (I believe) why the Mme Kovarian storyline just kind of stopped after season 6, with her motives and fate being glossed over in Time of The Doctor, because she was so intimately tied to the Pond saga, only the Ponds were no longer a part of the show because Karen got headhunted by Hollywood.

[Alberon]

True, but B5 also lost actors through unplanned events. IIRC each character had a 'trapdoor' storyline to be used to remove the actor from the show in the best way possible. Probably the prime example of that was the original show lead Michael O'Hare who had to leave through severe mental illness. Also, Claudia Christian didn't feature in the final season[nb]apart from the series finale filmed in the fourth season[/nb] after contract negotiations broke down so maybe none of the cast were on five year contracts?

I wouldn't expect JMS running Doctor Who to run such a detailed five-year plan though, but it would be nice to see someone, well, competent in charge.