Pubs then

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Definitely adding Ma Murphys and Maccarthys to my list, cheers Trenter...

[shagatha crustie]

Not seen that pub next to the City Varieties in Leeds mentioned, unless I've missed something - the Swan is it? Not been in there for a few years but I remember it having a nice atmosphere/layout. Possibly horrendously pricey though.

[Fr.Bigley]

Very much so. Depends what sort of thing you like but the old town has several extremely good historic classic English pubs. Referring to my list:

Ye Olde Black Boy   Hull   8.8
Lion & Key   Hull   8.7

WM Hawkes   Hull   8.6


The Minerva is also a good choice with river views and 'the smallest snug room in the country'. I find some of the interior very drab and the food smell and noise spoils it, but some people love

I think the three mentioned above are all now owned by the cats head brewery so their ales are general found nowhere else, sosme decent stiff in there, when I lived there for a bit I'd be guaranteed a new brew a week in the L&K.

Minerva you have a point on, I like the snug and the table looking out toward the Dock. Wrote many a funding application in there on a cold wet winters afternoon..

[Fr.Bigley]

Not seen that pub next to the City Varieties in Leeds mentioned, unless I've missed something - the Swan is it? Not been in there for a few years but I remember it having a nice atmosphere/layout. Possibly horrendously pricey though.

White Swan yeah, was OK, Spenny though, tends to have a 50/50 clientele, locals and and people shopping from out of town/show goers.

[buttgammon]

Ah, looks like John Kavanagh I listed is a.k.a The Gravediggers!

Brennan's down as Permanently Closed (though may just be Covid and not properly updated)

Shit, I hope not! It's still closed as far as I know. A lot of pubs here were closed for over a year, so it was sadly inevitable that some wouldn't reopen.

[kalowski]

Very much so. Depends what sort of thing you like but the old town has several extremely good historic classic English pubs. Referring to my list:

Ye Olde Black Boy   Hull   8.8
Lion & Key   Hull   8.7
Fretwell's   Hull   8.7
WM Hawkes   Hull   8.6
Ye Olde White Harte   Hull   8.5
The Whalebone   Hull   7.9
Hop & Vine   Hull   7.9
Ye Olde Blue Bell   Hull   7.6 (Sam Smiths tho)

The Minerva is also a good choice with river views and 'the smallest snug room in the country'. I find some of the interior very drab and the food smell and noise spoils it, but some people love it.

Bonny Boat, Old English Gentleman and The George are OK backups. Vintage Bar is pubby enough to count as well.

The Punch Hotel and Empress in the centre look really, really nice from the outside but I wouldn't recommend either, sadly, and not even for prissy reasons. They're drab and sometimes a bit grim.

If you are solely after the best drinks and not fussed about owt else then Corn Exchange/Atom Brewing, BREW, Hop&Vine, 80daysbierhaus, Vittles & Co, Taphouse, Head of Steam.

Ah, superb. Thanks.

[thelittlemango]

What does everyone look for in a good pub? What's the thing that makes you happy the moment you walk into one?

There are so many variables, some people love to view pubs as stepping back in time, all that Witcher 3 type shit, others like interesting decor or views or unpretentious and cosy etc. and yet when I think of the favourite pubs I've ever been to I find it hard to piece together a pattern, it usually comes down to the circumstances and an indefinable 'mood'.

[stonkers]

Shoulders, if you ever make it to Glasgow, a short list of city centre pubs worth visiting:
- The Pot Still (small yet contains an unbelievable amount of whiskies)
- The Bon Accord (like a bigger version of the Pot Still, though probably same amount of whiskies! Weird location tho)
- The Scotia (oldest pub in Glasgow, chain-owned but characterful)
- The Horseshoe (similar to the above, right by Central station)
- The State (regular winner of best pub by CAMRA)
- The Laurieston (untouched since the 60s, best pub in the world imo)

There's lots of bars in the Merchant City (Blackfriars, the Babbity Bowster) but none of them stand out as a "must-see" in my view. No doubt others might contribute West End suggestions but I would defer to their knowledge (and make that a separate day).

I'd second all these city centre recommendations, Bon Accord and State in particular.

I was about to say that I think the west end is a bit weaker than other parts of town for pubs, but when thinking about it there are a few decent ones, especially if you allow a wide definition of "west end". Inn Deep has your craft ale stuff, The Belle just up from that is a nice wee pub and does Anchor Steam on tap. You've got The Hug and Pint and whatever the Squid and Whale is called now if you want more hipstery places. You've got The Lismore and Sci-Fi Steven's The Sparkle Horse down in Partick.

[TrenterPercenter]

What does everyone look for in a good pub? What's the thing that makes you happy the moment you walk into one?

There are so many variables, some people love to view pubs as stepping back in time, all that Witcher 3 type shit, others like interesting decor or views or unpretentious and cosy etc. and yet when I think of the favourite pubs I've ever been to I find it hard to piece together a pattern, it usually comes down to the circumstances and an indefinable 'mood'.

Cosy
Good beer that is well looked after
Friendly Staff

This is one of the pubs that usually wins pub of the year in Birmingham (been going there since I was old enough to drink); it prides itself on great beer and has it's own beer festivals 3-4 times a year.  Wonderful place (with a Bar Cat).  It's in the depth of Balsall Heath which is one of the poorest districts in the City (6th) and the 79th most deprived ward in England which means a lot of well to do types are put off.  Their loss; wonderful community and people round those parts.

[Fr.Bigley]

What does everyone look for in a good pub? What's the thing that makes you happy the moment you walk into one?

A non curated playlist (ie  no pub company generic shit)
At least one fireplace blasting vibes into the room
Dark wood, mirrors and brass
A larger offering of ale than lager
Dog friendly
Regular staff (high turnover is a bad sign)
A mixed demographic of locals/workers/students/camra cunts.
60 percent full around 7pm

Specific I know but I like to hear my laughter muted and not right next to my face unless it's within my party.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Not seen that pub next to the City Varieties in Leeds mentioned, unless I've missed something - the Swan is it? Not been in there for a few years but I remember it having a nice atmosphere/layout. Possibly horrendously pricey though.

I think Leeds Brewery owned it and sometime in the late 00s it had a refurb and slightly took the charm out of it. Pretty grey and cookie cutter now but I agree it has potential due to the layoit. I would only ever go now if it was for a pre-theatre drink, even then there are about 10 better venues within 5 minutes walk so it would be a quite pointed choice.

[phes]

Great fun on a pub crawl. Your round in The Angel is £12 and their round in The Swan is £30

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

What does everyone look for in a good pub? What's the thing that makes you happy the moment you walk into one?

There are so many variables, some people love to view pubs as stepping back in time, all that Witcher 3 type shit, others like interesting decor or views or unpretentious and cosy etc. and yet when I think of the favourite pubs I've ever been to I find it hard to piece together a pattern, it usually comes down to the circumstances and an indefinable 'mood'.

I suppose all the different types of pubs in my opening post offer a certain something that appeals to me and if they are lacking in one area there's opportunity to make it up in another. On my guide (no plugging) I split it up by A: Choice/quality of drinks, B: Style/Decor, C: Character and Atmosphere, D: Amenities/Events and E: Value for Money. The overall verdict is really a mixture of those.

However, as you say, there is genius loci, the spirit of a place that can elevate it. Sometimes you can sense it from the moment you walk in, others you have to visit a few times in different seasons and times of day so it makes sense.

I've said it before but I'd be happy sitting in a pub that did 1 drink only so long as every other aspect of the place was knockout fantastic. I have done plenty of times abroad, in fact. Likewise I have been to pubs which had every drink under the sun that I'd have happily walked out of and never come back, due to them being badly designed, uncomfortable, poor value and badly run.

I particularly look for distinctive places that have a clear uncommonly singular identity, and even better if they have a personal touch (even something simple like handwritten blackboards rather than generic signage). It can be easier for historic pubs that haven't been refurbished to offer this because wood ages so spectacularly, and in the case of Victorian/Edwardian pubs, craftsmanship is so far beyond the money and effort spent on pubs today.

But the decor is no guarantee of a good pub. There are a lot of Holts pubs in Manchester that have preserved features but are drab, bordering on rough, badly run and in neighbourhoods that are simply disinterested in those sort of venues, and often they are jarringly turned into the thing they were never meant to be or left to rot. The Cardigan Arms in Leeds was a fucking dump for years thanks to the neglectful Pubco hiring the most desperate tenants and no-one with any vision or any ability to do anything to improve it - until Kirkstall Brewery stepped in.

To try and summarise:

- Intimacy and/or comfort, what the Dutch call gezellig
- Sense of welcome that, along with the above point, generates some sense of belonging.
- Personal touches, no generic signage, and unique or distinctive features
- Good drinks are important, excellent ones are a bonus but not essential
- A community vibe so local life if its a neighbourhood pub or creating an environment where strangers start mixing and socialising together if its a busy city pub
- A sense of history and legacy certainly doesn't hurt but not essential
- Friendly service not essential but definitely a tick in the box
- Some efforts to hold events and provide amenities only so long as that fits with the pubs profile
- Food is not relevant to why I go to the pub. If it happens to do food and that doesn't detract from the experience in any way, good, that can be convenient.

[shagatha crustie]

They're student pubs really but I still find a lot to love in the Packhorse and Fenton near Leeds uni too. Like the Brude, a good mix of students and locals, younguns and olds. Jukeboxes, friendly staff, comfy interiors, bit grotty in a good way. The Packhorse however seems to permanently smell of cleaning products which is a bit off-putting.

[Fr.Bigley]

The Packhorse however seems to permanently smell of cleaning products which is a bit off-putting.

That could have been my mate shitting himself on one Saturday afternoon due to a 3 day bender and too much wizz. Never seen a pool of shit before.

[king_tubby]

I moved to Leeds in 1997 and the Packhorse stank then.

[TrenterPercenter]

- Intimacy and/or comfort, what the Dutch call gezellig
- Sense of welcome that, along with the above point, generates some sense of belonging.
- Personal touches, no generic signage, and unique or distinctive features
- Good drinks are important, excellent ones are a bonus but not essential
- A community vibe so local life if its a neighbourhood pub or creating an environment where strangers start mixing and socialising together if its a busy city pub
- A sense of history and legacy certainly doesn't hurt but not essential
- Friendly service not essential but definitely a tick in the box
- Some efforts to hold events and provide amenities only so long as that fits with the pubs profile
- Food is not relevant to why I go to the pub. If it happens to do food and that doesn't detract from the experience in any way, good, that can be convenient.

Good list.  I would say you are underestimating the importance of friendly service.  When you walk into a pub you want to feel welcomed and safe; I've got great respect for publicans that see pubs as the community spaces that they are; unfriendly service is usually indicative of poor management of staff.  You are seeing this a lot out in some of the country pubs in the posher parts of the West Midlands now with rich Landlords hiring a load of young staff who don't seem like they want to be there; they run the place like it's a status symbol for them (with in some cases all the lecherous concerns of midlife crisis men hiring and being "in control" of usually quite young and attractive female waiting staff).  These places generally have high turnovers of staff and despite them seemingly buying the pub as their investment, the running of it seems to irk them.  Sadly seen this quite a bit recently in what are structurally gorgeous pubs.

Landlords should be a good manager to their staff; friendly and welcoming to their patrons whilst ready to turf out anyone that wants to deviate from the unspoken rule of being in a pub (i.e. don't be a cockend); they (or the bar manager) set the heartbeat of the pub.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Good list.  I would say you are underestimating the importance of friendly service. 

My post is very subjective and clearly a personal view. I wasn't and am not speaking for others on their preferences. I am certainly not underestimating it for myself, as I already know to what extent I feel it to be significant to my overall impression of a pub.

I think friendly service can go a long way to elevate an average pub and can be a key defining feature in those cases, but by contrast, an absence of friendliness, let's say neutral, business-like or slightly off service does nothing - for me - to harm an already good pub.

In Czechia the service is famously minimalist bordering on brusque to everyone who isn't a die hard regular, but it is also a very formal society (cheers Austria). There is even a change of language associated with moving from 'dobry den' (Good day) to 'ahoj' (Hey) that is indistinct and relies on effectively two people reciprocating almost simultaneously that threshold has been passed. Quite odd. I haven't reached that with anyone out there yet but there are little signs you get at pubs, there is a certain pride of getting on nodding terms with normally mute grumpy faced tapsters and they regard people who can give instructions for another drink voicelessly, just by glancing at each other and giving a little nod as speaking their language. The respect shown is microscopic in deed but meaningful in intent. I rather like that. Problematic service in England is hugely rare and by contrast a doddle to deal with, perhaps that's partly why I'm not as arsed.

I am at ease with the idea that some people consider their pub their house where they are the master and I am at their whim, while also happily receiving the cheerful service you find in cities like Amsterdam and Dublin.

Unless I am actually conversing and socialising with the staff this is a really quite minor element that will occupy less than a few % of your overall time while in a pub.

It is certainly not my intention to say what other people should feel on the subject and this post isn't intended to bring that into contention or invite argument, if you're wondering. It's simply my preferences and experiences laid on the table.

[TrenterPercenter]

Of course we are all here to speak for our own brains; I think we are talking about different things really though; I don't want service with a smile and all that American guff making the customers feel like a king.  I mean general ambience, relaxed and friendly.  Moody bar staff or people ill equipped socially in dealing with people can detract from the experience easily; making patrons feel anxious.  On the continent I've been to some right moody places; in France mainly, where bar staff have delighted in making you feel unwelcome "for not learning the language" or struggling with things; we laugh at this when it's brits abroad because we all know the typical louts on booze Britains but I be enraged if I saw bar staff belittling a customer for not being able to pronounce something in English (thankfully rare a sight but it happens).

You can be conspicuously silent and still give a nice aura; I'm not suggesting Uncle Moe's Family Feedbag.

For cultural reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFkrZAo7U-Q

[Psybro]

Reading this thread brings up some of the living cities vs corpse town stuff that's been politically relevant lately.  Following a League Two club away I like to get a pint or two somewhere nice if I can. In Nottingham or Liverpool this is easy enough, but heading out to the Oldhams and Scunthorpes of this world without local knowledge and a clutch of positive Internet reviews for places long since gone to shit or turned into private housing is tough.

There is a sense of achievement in finding a half decent boozer in Crewe or Burslem, but there's probably a good reason most of the posts here are about city or country.

[phes]

Pubs can be misleading. My local isn't a pub, but as an example: It's a gin bar, often it's wine o clock for hallam lecturers and hairdressers. And it's heavily tilted to Beavertown Boys as craft goes. It would set alarm bells off all over the show at a glance. But the simple fact of having a deep, U shaped bar that imposes itself means that it is communal in a way that 9/10 pubs/bars are not. Last night there were 6 of us sat at the bar, 4 bald, sad cunts and the landlord and a friend. I was chatting to the landlord about Bob Mortimer and neither of us could remember the 'I do beg your pardon, but we are in your garden' game. After what must have been a painful 3 minutes of watching drunk bald sad cunts fail to remember Bob Mortimer anecdotes, a guy along the bar started saying it 'we do beg your pardon...'. and so he joined the conversation. Probley next time I see him I'll learn a bit more about him. That isn't an unusual thing to happen, it's happened in there time and again and it's how I know many of the locals, and in particular local traders along the street. The Thornbridge pub opposite is almost completely desolate of this kind of community and locals. It helps that everything else the bar does is acceptable but the simple fact of the shape and dimensions of the bar itself means that people can interact. It's that Cheers-esque thing that would put it above many pubs that do any number of things better

[Janie Jones]

... heading out to the Oldhams and Scunthorpes of this world without local knowledge and a clutch of positive Internet reviews for places long since gone to shit or turned into private housing is tough.

Ha, in the old days we used to use the latest CAMRA good beer guide which was out of date the moment it hit the bookshelves really. Hence we found ourselves locked down in a side room by the landlady while some locals fought in the main bar in a pub in the outskirts of Durham that was supposed to have 4 hand pumps etc but 'that was the other fella, he left 9 months ago, we don't bother with that stuff now.'

[Psybro]

Ha, in the old days we used to use the latest CAMRA good beer guide which was out of date the moment it hit the bookshelves really. Hence we found ourselves locked down in a side room by the landlady while some locals fought in the main bar in a pub in the outskirts of Durham that was supposed to have 4 hand pumps etc but 'that was the other fella, he left 9 months ago, we don't bother with that stuff now.'

That reminds me, the Gardeners Rest in Sheffield has (had?) a big library of Good Beer Guides going back to the early 80s, you can have a brilliant time in a sunny day in the beer garden reading the decline and occasional rebirth of the British pub town by town.

[Clatty McCutcheon]

Shoulders, if you ever make it to Glasgow, a short list of city centre pubs worth visiting:
- The Pot Still (small yet contains an unbelievable amount of whiskies)
- The Bon Accord (like a bigger version of the Pot Still, though probably same amount of whiskies! Weird location tho)
- The Scotia (oldest pub in Glasgow, chain-owned but characterful)
- The Horseshoe (similar to the above, right by Central station)
- The State (regular winner of best pub by CAMRA)
- The Laurieston (untouched since the 60s, best pub in the world imo)

There's lots of bars in the Merchant City (Blackfriars, the Babbity Bowster) but none of them stand out as a "must-see" in my view. No doubt others might contribute West End suggestions but I would defer to their knowledge (and make that a separate day).

South of the river, The Allison Arms is also worth a visit.

[holyzombiejesus]

There is a sense of achievement in finding a half decent boozer in Crewe or Burslem, but there's probably a good reason most of the posts here are about city or country.

Burslem is great for pubs. Well served by the Titanic Brewery. Imagine having to find something near those dirty shitlords near the incinerator down the road.

Best pub I've been to on my away travels is probably The Baum in Rochdale. Last time I went there the game was called off due to heavy rain but Lisa Stansfield was at the bar so swings and roundabouts. Never thought a swing (or roundabout) would be Lisa Stansfield but there you go.

There's a good pub in Bury on the platform for the East Lancs railway but I guess it 'll be a while before I (or the quoted poster) have cause to visit there.

Also, Stalybridge Buffet Bar. Even though I was living in Manchester, I was a season ticket holder at Stalybridge Celtic for a season, purely because I liked the idea of having an excuse to visit the buffet bar every couple of weeks. Think it's a bit out of the way for a meet but would be a brill venue for one.



Look at that fire. You'd be praying for a missed connection if it meant an extra hour in there. Free cheesey crumpets on a Tuesday night, Laurel & Hardy films in the backroom (shown on an actual film projector) once a month and a folk singaround every Saturday. Black peas 40p a pot and pie and peas about £1.50. Not been there for a while and Saturday nights became a bit horrible when stag-types started doing booze trails from Huddersfield but still one of my favourite places on the planet. One of those places where you can just walk in to it and it feels like you're home.

[Ferris]

Stockbridge Tap!

That's the fucker I couldn't think of. Very welcome stop after walking the water of Leith and seeing the (frankly mad) Dean Village and the art gallery.

[Blinder Data]

Stockbridge Tap!

That's the fucker I couldn't think of. Very welcome stop after walking the water of Leith and seeing the (frankly mad) Dean Village and the art gallery.

did you forget it twice?

...

Stockbridge Tap is a must! How quickly we (I) forget. That is still my favourite bit of any city anywhere - that part of Edinburgh is the only bit of the UK I'd consider moving back to because it is so lovely.

...

[Ferris]

State of my recommendations. Should be hanging up the posting gloves here.

Christ.

[Psybro]

Burslem is great for pubs. Well served by the Titanic Brewery. Imagine having to find something near those dirty shitlords near the incinerator down the road.

I've only been to the Bulls Head and the micro opposite, any others I should try?

I managed to fit in an hour at the Stalybridge Buffet in between Oldham away and a party in York via two buses, need to eventually go back and do the Huddersfield ale trail thing.

[Noodle Lizard]

The Swan Inn in Liverpool. A fair-to-middling city center pub with an above-average beer selection, good music and the opportunity to run into Jeff Walker or Bill Steer of Carcass fame.

The King Street Run in Cambridge wasn't bad for similar reasons (sans Jeff Walker and Bill Steer of Carcass fame).

One of the few things I genuinely miss about the UK are good old pubs with beer gardens, preferably by a river. Some days I spend the whole day missing those.