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Started by bgmnts, September 07, 2021, 02:38:02 PM
Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 07, 2021, 04:09:19 PMMaybe the human jobs could be rota'd a bit like jury duty so everyone still gets more leisure time
Quote from: AllisonSays on September 07, 2021, 06:15:23 PMI have definitely internalised a kind of Calvinist thing where I 'enjoy' all kinds of work, even when I also find it alienating or demeaning or whatever. One of the big psychic changes for me of being more on the left was realising how deletorious that mindset was. I still get mad depressed when I'm not working though, so...
QuoteBullshit Jobs: A Theory is a 2018 book by anthropologist David Graeber that postulates the existence of meaningless jobs and analyzes their societal harm. He contends that over half of societal work is pointless, and becomes psychologically destructive when paired with a work ethic that associates work with self-worth. Graeber describes five types of meaningless jobs, in which workers pretend their role is not as pointless or harmful as they know it to be: flunkies, goons, duct tapers, box tickers, and taskmasters. He argues that the association of labor with virtuous suffering is recent in human history, and proposes universal basic income as a potential solution.
Quote from: Alberon on September 07, 2021, 07:19:53 PMOne guy I worked with inherited enough from his parents to retire at 55. Just googled him and he's had twenty years and counting of retirement in good health.Lucky bastard.
Quote from: touchingcloth on September 07, 2021, 03:51:24 PMMy hunch is that a cost-benefits analysis is what might cause young British workers to have an aversion to some kinds of work. If a potential benefit of work is getting, say, a foot on the housing ladder and a pension which will keep you in comfort in your old age, how much progress towards that goal will spending a summer picking soft fruits in a Marches farm get you, and is the experience of the job worth that progress? If a potential benefit of work is around ideas of agency, satisfaction in a job well done, providing wider benefits to society, how far towards that does the same summer job get you, and is it worth it?
Quote from: Better Midlands on September 07, 2021, 06:30:19 PMBullshit Jobs
Quote from: Ignatius_S on September 07, 2021, 10:05:12 PMThe book is an expansion of an article that Graeber wrote - but really would stick to the latter; the former is a good example of the law of diminishing returns.
QuoteI still get mad depressed when I'm not working though, so...
Quote from: Mobbd on September 07, 2021, 09:20:08 PMMost people do not work because they love to work or get satisfaction from it. They work because they are forced to, economically bullied into it. This is why some people call it wage slavery and why there are no Blues songs about how great the boss is and how splendid the bank manager is for looking after our plentiful and joyfully-earned wedge.
Quote from: Mobbd on September 07, 2021, 09:25:17 PMDoes the work need to be meaningful? Would your depression be salved by a job that involved digging a hole til lunch break and filling it up again til 5? (Genuine question. I relate to what you said.)
Quote from: AllisonSays on September 07, 2021, 10:59:41 PMI've had kitchen jobs that were obviously stupid jobs washing the plates of dickheads and I've been really happy in being absorbed in that work
Quote from: TrenterPercenter on September 07, 2021, 10:33:00 PMyou and touchingcloth are spot on imo. UBI as vehicle to allow people to just not work is flawed. Make better jobs, with better terms and conditions and realistically achievable gains for doing them. The majority of people are not inactive people by desire, work provides growth, opportunities for socialising and the ability to work together (and help others); in short it is actually healthy - when workers are being looked after and properly respected.
Quote from: AllisonSays on September 08, 2021, 07:02:26 AMAnd the thing about 'meaningful' jobs (I'm thinking of social work and teaching, as ones that I've done, and nursing, medicine, paramedics, care work as ones that I've been adjacent to) are no less vitiated by managerialism, pettiness, bullshit, the application of inappropriate metrics and mechanisms, and so on. Certainly in teaching you need to try really fucking hard to feel like you're doing something good beyond being the two-in-one cop and creche manager your boss wants you to be, in my experience.
Quote from: Lemming on September 07, 2021, 11:32:11 PMIt's politically suicidal right now, but UBI should be advertised as allowing people not to work, IMO. Some of the policy's appeal comes from the potential it has to disintegrate the current concept of "work" as we know it, to prevent the demonisation of joblessness and the unemployed, and to give people the agency to focus on whatever projects they desire - many of which will still take the form of paid employment, I assume. It also gives people the option to abandon jobs when they've become exhausted and/or feel they're ill-suited, and makes it easier to pursue a job on a temporary basis without ending up stuck in it.
Quote from: dissolute ocelot on September 08, 2021, 01:45:57 PMWe need to measure productivity to ensure people are working efficiently, but also need to ensure they're not producing worthless crap efficiently.
QuoteAnother job rejection. This one hurts because I had eight years experience of the work involved. In fact, it was identical to my last permanent admin role. I didn't even get an interview. Absolute horseshit.
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