Norm MacDonald has died

[Povidone]

Also Kate follows that line up with "How is that scary?" which is another unnecessary ramming-home of the whole premise of the sketch before it's even halfway over. Whatevs I'm not a writer.

Yeah I watched that sketch recently and noticed the same thing, a lot of great SNL sketches are elevated by the material despite the performance. Where some entirely about the perfomance (pretty much anything Bill Hader or Keenan Thompson were in). They rarely, if ever, manage to strike a balance between the two.

[C_Larence]

Conan did a special tribute podcast to Norm

https://www.earwolf.com/episode/conan-talks-about-norm-macdonald/

I remember reading some speculation in a thread on here that Norm's lack of recent appearances on Conan's show was due to fallout from his #MeToo comments, so it's nice to hear that wasn't the case and they had been trying to book him. Was funny to hear Andy Richter, who I think it's an open secret will have allegations of his own one day, complaining about Norm making fun of him.

[Cold Meat Platter]

Well of course we have to have this if Richter's mentioned:

Andy Richter the Swedish-German

[McChesney Duntz]

Was funny to hear Andy Richter, who I think it's an open secret will have allegations of his own one day, complaining about Norm making fun of him.

You can't throw that out and not back it up. Spill.

[C_Larence]

You can't throw that out and not back it up. Spill.

Let's just say I've heard him referred to as the American Jason Manford

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Let's just say I've heard him referred to as the American Jason Manford

What, not funny?

[SpiderChrist]

Let's just say I've heard him referred to as the American Jason Manford

Supports Man City?

[Petey Pate]

Was funny to hear Andy Richter, who I think it's an open secret will have allegations of his own one day, complaining about Norm making fun of him.

Andy Richter was also on the most recent Office Hours with Tim Heidecker and said similar things.

[Indomitable Spirit]

You can't throw that out and not back it up. Spill.

a bunch of mildly creepy online interactions with much younger women online around the time of his divorce.

these then allegedly spilled over into Andy sending some unsolicited horny DMs.

[Indomitable Spirit]

double post

[Mr Faineant]

I listened to that Conan thing, and was left with the feeling that they didn't really get Norm. All their "analysis" seemed a bit off. This sounds ridiculous, because they knew him and I didn't, but I suppose I mean my interpretation of him was a bit different. For example, when talking about the moth joke, Richter said something about "oh you think tv time is so precious, I'll show you how precious it is" but I don't think that's what it was about. I think he did it because he was there to be funny and he thought it would be funny (and it was). Also, they talked about the blade runner guy and didn't bring up the word "biped" which tells me they weren't paying attention.

[colacentral]

a bunch of mildly creepy online interactions with much younger women online around the time of his divorce.

these then allegedly spilled over into Andy sending some unsolicited horny DMs.

Yeah, I unfollowed him before it even got to that point once I noticed that he kept retweeting some young British blogger who I couldn't see any reason why he would give a shit about her other than to perv. Incessant, daily retweets, and this was before his divorce, which came as no surprise to me in light of that.

This warrants another thread really, but he really is a bit cunty in other ways too. Look up Tom Green's first appearance on Conan in the late 90's, for example - Richter looking down his nose at him, trying his hardest to make him feel unwelcome, and you can see in Tom Green's face that it gets to him a little bit. It doesn't matter what your opinion of his or anyone else's comedy is, that's an arsey thing to do to a guest on your show, a show in which your job is to sit off to the side of the camera, and in which you can go hours and hours of screen time without contributing anything at all to the show.

He's been that way with other people too, although I can't remember any more specific examples right now. Definitely a twat with a chip on his shoulder.

[chveik]

the cunt's being payed just to sit on a sofa looking fat and depressed. the dream job really

[colacentral]

I listened to that Conan thing, and was left with the feeling that they didn't really get Norm. All their "analysis" seemed a bit off. This sounds ridiculous, because they knew him and I didn't, but I suppose I mean my interpretation of him was a bit different. For example, when talking about the moth joke, Richter said something about "oh you think tv time is so precious, I'll show you how precious it is" but I don't think that's what it was about. I think he did it because he was there to be funny and he thought it would be funny (and it was). Also, they talked about the blade runner guy and didn't bring up the word "biped" which tells me they weren't paying attention.

I don't think they don't get it, I just think sometimes people struggle to articulate why something is funny and over explain, or come out with bollocks that they might later realise they don't really believe themselves. I went through a phase as a teenager of always wanting to try to explain to myself why something was funny, and it took a long time to shake it and just admit that you can't explain it all. Sometimes things are just funny because they're funny. You can get very dry and academic about it and work it all out, but ultimately, whether something is funny or not funny is something that's just felt.

I do think there's some truth to what you're saying though, and I think to some extent, most comedians don't "get" Norm either. As you say, that might sound ridiculous, but they are one kind of comedian and he's a different kind. I think you get the sense from some of his appearances on Conan and other shows that he's trying to tell a joke, and is frustrated (in a good humoured way) about the fact that nobody there is getting it but him. I think part of that tension is what makes the Stephen Merchant episode of Norm MacDonald Live so funny, that Merchant was so perplexed by him.

[Mr Faineant]

I don't think they don't get it, I just think sometimes people struggle to articulate why something is funny and over explain, or come out with bollocks that they might later realise they don't really believe themselves. I went through a phase as a teenager of always wanting to try to explain to myself why something was funny, and it took a long time to shake it and just admit that you can't explain it all. Sometimes things are just funny because they're funny. You can get very dry and academic about it and work it all out, but ultimately, whether something is funny or not funny is something that's just felt.

I do think there's some truth to what you're saying though, and I think to some extent, most comedians don't "get" Norm either. As you say, that might sound ridiculous, but they are one kind of comedian and he's a different kind. I think you get the sense from some of his appearances on Conan and other shows that he's trying to tell a joke, and is frustrated (in a good humoured way) about the fact that nobody there is getting it but him. I think part of that tension is what makes the Stephen Merchant episode of Norm MacDonald Live so funny, that Merchant was so perplexed by him.

Yeah, totally agree with all of that. The Stephen merchant episode was great for that reason, but it boggles my mind a bit that they don't see what's happening. There's a frustrating bit in the Russell Brand episode where norm is clearly making something up, and headed towards a punchline, but ol' Russ takes the story at face value and steps on it. I guess you see that a lot, to some extent, but that one was really obvious. I always hoped Matt Morgan would make fun of him for that.

I guess I don't like the idea that Norm did the things he did because he was kind of "sticking it to the man." I prefer to think (and really do believe) that everything he did was simply because he thought it would be funny, and that's what was most important to him, professionally.

[lazyhour]

Norm's Conan appearances are annoying because you feel like Conan is trying to 'help' the audience along by over-reacting to Norm's archaic turns of phrase. I wish he'd shut up and just let Norm talk.

[Dusty Substance]

Four days on and it still hasn't fully sunk in. Even though Norm didn't have a huge social media presence (he was on Twitter but 95% of his tweets were sports related) and didn't have any ongoing projects after NM Has A Show on Netflix wasn't renewed for a second season, it still doesn't feel right that we'll never another new Norm joke ever again.

Conan did a special tribute podcast to Norm

https://www.earwolf.com/episode/conan-talks-about-norm-macdonald/

Will give this a listen this evening. It was always clear from Conan's reaction to Norm's jokes that he adored him. More so than Letterman.

Incidentally, anyone know if there are any episodes of Conan's podcast worth going back and listening to? I'm often wary of anyone with a big platform jumping on the Podwagon, especially someone with a platform as big as Conan's. One or two names leap out (Bob Newhart, Michael Keaton), some I have no interest in and some I wonder just what more they have to say on a podcast (Bill Burr, Ricky Gervais etc.)

[Mr Faineant]

Norm's Conan appearances are annoying because you feel like Conan is trying to 'help' the audience along by over-reacting to Norm's archaic turns of phrase. I wish he'd shut up and just let Norm talk.

Yes, a lot of this, but the moments of genuine delight from Conan make up for it, I think.

[Magnum Valentino]

Yes, a lot of this, but the moments of genuine delight from Conan make up for it, I think.

Arguable that Conan doesn't get the moth joke at all. He takes a real risk by jumping in halfway through to ask how long the journey was, which doesn't pay off as Norm just stops and waits to continue, and his laughter is one of the worst examples of fake talk show host laughing I've ever seen, with that one moment where he's cackling with his finger over his mouth seared into my mental vision in particular.

There's a moment where it cuts to a shot where you can see Conan's face directly, I think when Norm is naming either the moth's son or daughter, and he has the expression of tolerance but understanding or appreciation are not there. If you've ever had the unique unpleasantness of being politely humored by someone who doesn't get what you're digging at, that expression is impossible not to recognize. In the course of the joke, it becomes apparent that despite appearances to the contrary, they weren't friends, much like Norm says about how everyone thought he and Letterman were friendly but they weren't.

[lankyguy95]

Incidentally, anyone know if there are any episodes of Conan's podcast worth going back and listening to? I'm often wary of anyone with a big platform jumping on the Podwagon, especially someone with a platform as big as Conan's. One or two names leap out (Bob Newhart, Michael Keaton), some I have no interest in and some I wonder just what more they have to say on a podcast (Bill Burr, Ricky Gervais etc.)

I listened to the Kevin Nealon one a while ago and that was a lot of fun. They have great chemistry.

[Mr Faineant]

Arguable that Conan doesn't get the moth joke at all. He takes a real risk by jumping in halfway through to ask how long the journey was, which doesn't pay off as Norm just stops and waits to continue, and his laughter is one of the worst examples of fake talk show host laughing I've ever seen, with that one moment where he's cackling with his finger over his mouth seared into my mental vision in particular.

There's a moment where it cuts to a shot where you can see Conan's face directly, I think when Norm is naming either the moth's son or daughter, and he has the expression of tolerance but understanding or appreciation are not there. If you've ever had the unique unpleasantness of being politely humored by someone who doesn't get what you're digging at, that expression is impossible not to recognize. In the course of the joke, it becomes apparent that despite appearances to the contrary, they weren't friends, much like Norm says about how everyone thought he and Letterman were friendly but they weren't.

I'll have to go back and look at it, but as I said above, I'm not convinced Conan quite "got" norm, based on this new podcast. I guess the "genuine delight" perception I had was the "I bet it's spelled b-o-r-e-d" clip, I think he genuinely enjoyed that. But...nothing to "get" there, just good old fashioned quick wittedness.

[Kelvin]

I don't think Norm was trying to make some satirical point when he told longer stories on shows like Conan - he wasn't trying to highlight flaws in the format, persay - but I do think he was telling stories that he knew would wind up the host, and to an extent the audience, by being so unsuited to the format. I see it more as impish mischief-making - which is how I'd sum up a lot of Norm's best stuff -  rather than him making a point or, conversely, just telling a joke purely because he thought it was funny.

[Mr Faineant]

I don't think Norm was trying to make some satirical point when he told longer stories on shows like Conan - he wasn't trying to highlight flaws in the format, persay - but I do think he was telling stories that he knew would wind up the host, and to an extent the audience, by being so unsuited to the format. I see it more as impish mischief-making - which is how I'd sum up a lot of Norm's best stuff -  rather than him making a point or, conversely, just telling a joke purely because he thought it was funny.

Exactly.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Incidentally, anyone know if there are any episodes of Conan's podcast worth going back and listening to? I'm often wary of anyone with a big platform jumping on the Podwagon, especially someone with a platform as big as Conan's. One or two names leap out (Bob Newhart, Michael Keaton), some I have no interest in and some I wonder just what more they have to say on a podcast (Bill Burr, Ricky Gervais etc.)

Weirdly, because he's an actor, not a comedian, the Timothy Olyphant one is one of the funniest podcast episodes I've ever heard. He's a very funny dude anyway, but the connection between him and Conan has this magical spark, with both of them playing up their roles: Olyphant as this laid-back, sardonic piss-taker, Conan as someone fundamentally uncool who basically has a massive crush one of the most handsome men in the world.

[AllisonSays]

I think Conan makes the moth joke funnier, because a lot of the humour comes from the slight tension produced by deliberately testing his (and the audience's) patience. He's a bit of a ham, I guess, but you probably need to ham it up to make things land on a show like that. The same with the exaggerated laughing and the thin-lipped, what-are-you-doing vibe - it's all part of the performance and at least in this specific instance it works as a way of setting up the joke. In general I find him aggressively banal, like loads of American popular culture, but he seemed to be a decent foil for Norm.

[Twit 2]

Yeah, he's absolutely playing along, mock-exasperated, on behalf of the audience. He totally gets Norm. Listen to his laugh after Norm's "What?!" in the turtle joke, or after the "Why would you become a cook?" line in the Gordon Ramsay bit.

Similarly, you can hear Letterman's delighted cackle over the entire audience on certain lines when Norm was on there.

[Magnum Valentino]

Yeah, he's absolutely playing along, mock-exasperated, on behalf of the audience. He totally gets Norm. Listen to his laugh after Norm's "What?!" in the turtle joke, or after the "Why would you become a cook?" line in the Gordon Ramsay bit.

Similarly, you can hear Letterman's delighted cackle over the entire audience on certain lines when Norm was on there.

Maybe in those bits, but his eyes don't lie during the moth joke.

[Twit 2]

Meh, I think you're reading too much into it and taking his mock-reactions at face value. I think he's savvier than you're giving him credit for. There's probably some nervousness about how the bit's playing to the audience, certainly some genuinely stifled laughter. But I just don't buy that he doesn't get what's going on. He knows.

[lankyguy95]

Conan frequently does that with the comedians he knows and has chemistry with. I mentioned Kevin Nealon earlier - he does the same with him. Conan obviously 'got' Norm.

[Dusty Substance]

I listened to the Kevin Nealon one a while ago and that was a lot of fun. They have great chemistry.

Cheers, Lanky. I'll check it out. I recall Kevin Nealon being good on NML too.

Weirdly, because he's an actor, not a comedian, the Timothy Olyphant one is one of the funniest podcast episodes I've ever heard. He's a very funny dude anyway, but the connection between him and Conan has this magical spark, with both of them playing up their roles: Olyphant as this laid-back, sardonic piss-taker, Conan as someone fundamentally uncool who basically has a massive crush one of the most handsome men in the world.

Nice one, JS. I like Olyphant as an actor but don't think I've ever heard him on a podcast so will be sure to check it out.

If, that is, if I can the notoriously shitty Stitcher site to actually play it.