RTD back for Doctor Who

[Kelvin]

I'm convinced it will at least be made more ambiguous at some point. Think how many writers must think it was a terrible idea, you have to assume one of them, when invited to work on Who, will throw in a line about it:

"Someone once tricked me into thinking I'd lived for millions of lives. What an absolutely shit idea that was, K-9."

It doesn't deserve any more than that. Just an insultingly dismissive handwave in a few years.

[Alberon]

That's what I expect. No way RTD is going to turn around when he takes over and dive right back into this shit.

[daf]

"Someone once tricked me into thinking I'd lived for millions of lives. What an absolutely shit idea that was, K-9."

Affirmative, Master!

[Replies From View]

That's what I expect. No way RTD is going to turn around when he takes over and dive right back into this shit.

Well no, that would be dreadful.  But I'd like a neat line crossed through it in series 20 or something, or whenever the most opportune moment would be.  A throwaway line would be fine, but something that indicates we've moved past it and it will never be hanging over the future of the show.

[Replies From View]

Saw an excerpt of RTD's DWM interview earlier but can't find it now.

Said there was something in it that was a hint to what is going on with Tennant coming back. Was a bit vague though.

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-david-tennant-russell-t-davies-return-newsupdate/

[Malcy]

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-david-tennant-russell-t-davies-return-newsupdate/

That's the one, cheers.

[BritishHobo]

I sometimes wonder what the social implications are in situations like this; Chibnall and RTD are obviously on good terms, and the Timeless Child is obviously an idea Chibnall feels really strongly about (we hope, otherwise why bother?). It's such a specific social situation to think about, but I wonder if there would be acrimony if Chibnall sat down to watch the next series, and hears Ncuti Gatwa say 'the Master once tried to trick me into believing I've lived infinite previous lives as a Time Cop, what a fucking ridiculous story'. I hope it happens, but I wonder whether you tread carefully, knowing that was your mate's big big story idea.

[Malcy]

Could argue that the Cartmel Masterplan would have annoyed fans as well if it had gone ahead. Each show runner can do their own thing and the next can ignore it with a line of dialogue.

[mjwilson]

I sometimes wonder what the social implications are in situations like this; Chibnall and RTD are obviously on good terms, and the Timeless Child is obviously an idea Chibnall feels really strongly about (we hope, otherwise why bother?). It's such a specific social situation to think about, but I wonder if there would be acrimony if Chibnall sat down to watch the next series, and hears Ncuti Gatwa say 'the Master once tried to trick me into believing I've lived infinite previous lives as a Time Cop, what a fucking ridiculous story'. I hope it happens, but I wonder whether you tread carefully, knowing that was your mate's big big story idea.

RTD praises Chibnall in DWM for the fact that he has done no publicity at all, it's very diplomatic.

[Mister Six]

Haha, really? What does he say?

[Replies From View]

I sometimes wonder what the social implications are in situations like this; Chibnall and RTD are obviously on good terms, and the Timeless Child is obviously an idea Chibnall feels really strongly about (we hope, otherwise why bother?). It's such a specific social situation to think about, but I wonder if there would be acrimony if Chibnall sat down to watch the next series, and hears Ncuti Gatwa say 'the Master once tried to trick me into believing I've lived infinite previous lives as a Time Cop, what a fucking ridiculous story'. I hope it happens, but I wonder whether you tread carefully, knowing that was your mate's big big story idea.

If Chibnall isn't on the verge of suicide then who gives a shit.  Some fucker's ego isn't worth keeping a show like Doctor Who entrenched in shit.

Also it's plainly obvious that Chibnall cared about it only insofar as he wanted to settle a playground argument.  Little Timmy in the playground thought it was Morbius' memories; Chibnall thought it was the Doctor's.  Chibnall continued to be bruised to the present day about failing to convince little Timmy that he had all the best opinions, and as showrunner realised he'd be able to scratch that itch.

This is plainly obvious because there's no further depth to it than that.  It's just "this is a fact now - byeee!"

And if Chibnall only cares about it enough to drop it and run, then the next person shouldn't think twice about undoing it without guilt.  That's what I think.

[BritishHobo]

Oh yeah, I wouldn't feel bad about it, I'm just fascinated by how that's navigated in friendships. I think if I had written a huge significant story arc on a TV show and a friend/colleague took over and then unwrote it, I'd feel pretty slighted.

As I say though, this is purely a fascination thing; it's such a terrible twist that I'm perfectly happy if RTD retcons it literally with his first line.

[purlieu]

Ah, give it a couple of years and it'll go the way of "half human on my mother's side".

Nah, that was Faction Paradox messing with the Doctor's biodata that did that.

There are plenty of contradictory things in Who to the extent that you can definitely pretend the Timeless Child didn't happen, but I agree that it would be really nice to have something on screen contradict it, one way or another.

[Mister Six]

Chibnall continued to be bruised to the present day about failing to convince little Timmy that he had all the best opinions, and as showrunner realised he'd be able to scratch that itch.

This is plainly obvious because there's no further depth to it than that.  It's just "this is a fact now - byeee!"

And if Chibnall only cares about it enough to drop it and run, then the next person shouldn't think twice about undoing it without guilt.  That's what I think.

To be fair, I'm not sure Chibnall is capable of writing with any depth regardless of his opinions, so I don't think it's a closed case.

Nah, that was Faction Paradox messing with the Doctor's biodata that did that.

There are plenty of contradictory things in Who to the extent that you can definitely pretend the Timeless Child didn't happen, but I agree that it would be really nice to have something on screen contradict it, one way or another.

I don't disagree, but I think that even if it isn't directly undone or dismissed on-screen, it'll fade as we get into Gatwa's run, and Chibnall's mess will ultimately be forgotten as a blip in a largely very successful - creatively and in terms of popularity - show.

[Replies From View]

I should have added...

I actually don't mind the decision to make the Doctor's life extend long before Hartnell.  I suspect everyone considered the idea when they encountered the Morbius sequence, and it's not without its exciting potential.

But it's very very obvious that in the above circumstance, Hartnell would have been the first Doctor.  He made the choice to become the Doctor at that point and took on that name with the incarnation we have always known as "the first Doctor". 

Whether he chose to move on from his previous life and knowingly kept those previous incarnations secret, or had his memory wiped, is kind of immaterial.  But having his memory wiped makes the character more passive, more of a victim, and this is the beginning of Chibnall's version being shite.

Then Chibnall bunged in a pre-Hartnell incarnation that called herself the Doctor and flew in a police box TARDIS.  And then bunged in bullshit layers about the Timeless Child when he could have just hinted at pre-Hartnell incarnations and left that as his legacy.

It saps away my joy for the show - really it does.  Just having it hanging there makes me dread watching future stories.

[Replies From View]

I don't disagree, but I think that even if it isn't directly undone or dismissed on-screen, it'll fade as we get into Gatwa's run, and Chibnall's mess will ultimately be forgotten as a blip in a largely very successful - creatively and in terms of popularity - show.

There's a perfectly serviceable, passive-aggressive way of dealing with it, which would be a few series from now setting some episodes in the Matrix and having the Doctor experience more mind-blowing and contradictory versions of an origin story.  And have them all completely obviously untrue, with traces in the real world that don't make sense (as per Flux), and leave that there to muddy the waters of the Timeless Child.  And then never go into origin stories ever again.

Who knows, maybe that's what's going on in the upcoming Tennant stories.  To just blast it all out of the water so we can move on without the stench.

[Kelvin]

RTD praises Chibnall in DWM for the fact that he has done no publicity at all, it's very diplomatic.

The way you phrase it, it doesn't sound very diplomatic...

[thr0b]

It's diplomatic, while also being potentially a little snarky. Depends on how you read it.

Spoiler alert

[close]

[McDead]

It's diplomatic, while also being potentially a little snarky. Depends on how you read it.

Spoiler alert

[close]

I really love this guy. Hard to imagine a better ambassador for the show.

[Shaky]

I hope we're not going to get that "Impossible!" word chucked around all the time again. I'm a bit concerned we're going to get all RTD's excesses again.

[Replies From View]

I don't remember "impossible" being a buzzword in RTD's time - that was more Moffat I thought with The Impossible Girl and The Impossible Astronaut and so on.

But yes I do hope RTD's excesses will be self-tempered this time around.  I haven't seen anything he's done outside of Doctor Who and its spin-offs, so don't know how he has matured as a writer.

[mjwilson]

Honestly I am fully prepared for Russell's excesses if we get all of his good side as well.

[Replies From View]

Just want the Doctor romance binned to be honest.  And maybe a more varied approach to series cliffhangers, as RTD escalated the threats in quite a linear way to be bigger and bigger with the result there was nowhere left to go within that template after series 4 / the 2009 specials.

[McDead]

Honestly I am fully prepared for Russell's excesses if we get all of his good side as well.

Exactly so, yes. All that "lonely god" stuff gave me the fucking hump at the time, but cos it was RTD there was always something there to keep you hooked. It at least seemed to be about recognisable human beings, not strange middle class marionettes or Chibnall's Look North salt-of-the earth simulacra.

[Glyn]

I haven't seen anything he's done outside of Doctor Who and its spin-offs, so don't know how he has matured as a writer.

Definitely worth watching It's a Sin.

[McDead]

A Very British Scandal was great and all

[BritishHobo]

Just want the Doctor romance binned to be honest.  And maybe a more varied approach to series cliffhangers, as RTD escalated the threats in quite a linear way to be bigger and bigger with the result there was nowhere left to go within that template after series 4 / the 2009 specials.

I've been nervous about this, knowing that his big plan for his new series 4 companion (before Tate came back) was an ordinary woman who the Doctor would fall in love with now that Martha had helped him move on from Rose. But if Yasmin Finney is to be Ncuti's companion (which I don't think has been definitively confirmed yet), hopefully this won't be an issue, as the casting call for her character

Spoiler alert

had hed as being aged 15.

[close]

The age-gap between the Doctor and Rose is something the show obviously overlooks with regards to romance,

Spoiler alert

but I think even with that in mind it'll seem very queasy if he's getting off with a schoolgirl.

[close]

[daf]

A Very British Scandal was great and all

I was going to mention that - superb!

[Alberon]

But if Yasmin Finney is to be Ncuti's companion (which I don't think has been definitively confirmed yet)

All we've seen of her so far is a bit shot with Tennant's Doctor (14th? but will probably be given another name (like the War Doctor and Gatwa will be the proper 14th)) so her status is really up in the air. She was announced with some fanfair so she might be going on to be Gatwa's companion or maybe it just got thrown out there by RTD as her name is Rose.

We've never had two companions with the same name (unless you count the two K9s).

[Kelvin]

A Very British Scandal may be his best script, as I recall. A lot of his other work excels at character drama, but doesn't feel wholly naturalistic; a bit too expositional, a bit too much speechifying. A Very British Scandal didn't have to carry any big concepts or make any profound political points, so could just focus on the characters. I wouldn't say it's as engaging or interesting as his other work, but its definitely one of the better scripts. In contrast, Years and Years had a gripping plot, but everyone felt like ciphers for Davies' political anxieties.