Prosecco Stormfront [split topic]

[Pimhole]

An example of as long as you hate the trans you can do no wrong.

This is from halfway down a thread in FWR about how amazing Baroness Nicolson is for her letter saying how much she dislikes seeing the pride flag on Regent's Street.

"people can agree on some things while disagreeing on others. Therefore we can welcome their actions that support our cause, even if we oppose their actions that we disapprove of"

Still waiting for any of them to oppose any of Kareness Nicholson's actions, inlcuding just yesterday when she called discussion of period products "pornography" and "vile".

[JaDanketies]

Fun fact: I can't see any evidence that Stonewall were against gay marriage. I can see evidence that they were not advocating for gay marriage at particular times in history but never anything that says they opposed it. More that they didn't say anything.

[phantom_power]

This is what annoys me most about FWR, people have different opinions and that's cool but when someone is sponsoring a bill in the House Of Lords to reduce the gestation period for abortion down to 12 weeks then...

Yes. There is a valid argument for holding your nose and joining forces with people who don't agree with you about everything. I see no problem, for instance, with supporting the RMT despite them being pro-Brexit. But when the thing you disagree on is so utterly fundamental to the feminist cause then I am not sure how you can justify it or call yourself a feminist. And the idea that the handful of trans athletes and bullshit about "women's spaces" is more important than abortion really shows them up for who they really are

[Dr Rock]

If your cause back in the 80s was vegetarianism/animal rights, and by some twist of fate, Thatcher shared those views, I can't imagine anyone celebrating her opinion that they agree with, and ignoring all the horrific shit

[dissolute ocelot]

Fun fact: I can't see any evidence that Stonewall were against gay marriage. I can see evidence that they were not advocating for gay marriage at particular times in history but never anything that says they opposed it. More that they didn't say anything.

Yes, there were some LGBT people who opposed gay marriage because they opposed all marriage, and Stonewall didn't campaign on it for a while, but after a period of uncertainty and after consulting more widely, they decided marriage equality should be a focus of campaigning. Here's a 2010 article on the debate.

[JaDanketies]

It's remarkable that there are so many people out there who hear 'Stonewall', immediately think "I know a 'fun fact' about Stonewall that is foundational to my beliefs about them, and I need to share this publicly so other people share my beliefs,' and the 'fun fact' is just totally incorrect. It's a tower of cards with so many ideologues

[Kankurette]

If your cause back in the 80s was vegetarianism/animal rights, and by some twist of fate, Thatcher shared those views, I can't imagine anyone celebrating her opinion that they agree with, and ignoring all the horrific shit

Nick Griffin opposed the Iraq war. By their logic I should have voted BNP.

[Better Midlands]

It's remarkable that there are so many people out there who hear 'Stonewall', immediately think "I know a 'fun fact' about Stonewall that is foundational to my beliefs about them, and I need to share this publicly so other people share my beliefs,' and the 'fun fact' is just totally incorrect. It's a tower of cards with so many ideologues

This is the majority view in FWR, bonkers.

[Kankurette]

They think Stonewall is homophobic because they believe in forcing lesbians to have sex with trans women, who are not women according to Mumsnet. This is the level of bananery we're dealing with. Meanwhile actual homophobe Baroness Nicholson gets a pass.

[Shaxberd]

Things that are not homophobic according to Mumsnet: hating Pride flags, hating drag queens, opposing all use of surrogates by gay male couples, telling gender nonconforming children that their gender nonconformity means they must be gay.

Things which are homophobic according to Mumsnet: supporting trans people's right to exist.

Gay and lesbian people are tolerable inasmuch as they are lovely sexless interior design experts or vulnerable lesbians who will explode if they are within 100 ft of a penis. Otherwise, disgusting and I don't want my kids near them.

[Jollity]

You know, I don't think that's the real Mrs Terry Pratchett at all.

[Kankurette]

I hate gendercritters who call themselves after anything Pratchett/Discworld-related. He'd have hated everything they stood for.

Also, someone's posted an awful thread in AIBU about the Good BAME People Who Support Women's Rights. Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman are feminist heroes, as is Sajid Javid. They managed to get grooming gangs in there as well.

Today I read about attorney general Suella Braverman opposing the SNP's plan to speed up gender self-ID. By allowing anyone to claim to be the other sex, self-ID would of course give every man (trans or not, sex predator or not) access to all women's services and spaces.

Yesterday, it was the equalities minister Kemi Badenoch stating that all new public buildings must have single-sex toilets.

Health secretary Sajid Javid has told the NHS to stop replacing words that have a female meaning (such as 'woman') with expressions such as 'person with a uterus'. The NHS and many large organisations have been doing this to avoid offending trans people. But it is baffling to many people, who then risk missing vital health information.

Dame Kelly Holmes supports the Fair Play for Women campaign to stop males competing in women's sports, despite transactivists' aggression.

And so many heroic resisters have been fighting legal battles: Allison Bailey, Keira Bell, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Shahrar Ali ...

And it's not only the fight to keep women's single-sex rights. Sajid Javid has also refused to shut up about grooming gangs, despite being (unfairly) accused of racism.

Those are just the few I can think of on the spur of the moment. I know there are many more.

Of course there are many other, non-BAME feminists and allies fighting against the withdrawal of women's rights and protections. But the percentage who are BAME seems very noticeable.

Any ideas why?

Although we also have someone claiming black people are more likely to be pro-trans.

[Uncle TechTip]

Failing to read a thread is something that never happens here.

[Kankurette]

One of them has suggested Nadine Dorries would be great for women and girls if she took over the Tories. Isn't she anti-abortion?

[phantom_power]

And she's a fucking dunce so would doubtless not be great for anyone. Plus she is Johnson's biggest cheerleader so that doesn't suggest she is a great feminist

[Blue Jam]

One of them has suggested Nadine Dorries would be great for women and girls if she took over the Tories. Isn't she anti-abortion?

She also tried to introduce abstinence-only sex education classes to schools- for girls only, of course.

[Better Midlands]

One of them has suggested Nadine Dorries would be great for women and girls if she took over the Tories. Isn't she anti-abortion?

C'mon, The Baroness and Caroline Farrow are FWR heroes, ND is mild compared to them.

Anyway giving away reproduction rights to 'win the war' is a price they're willing to pay.

[Kankurette]

Plenty of them have already had kids and are menopausal anyway, so it won't affect them (note: I'm not using menopause as a stick to beat women with, just stating a fact).

[Dex Sawash]

Failing to read a thread is something that never happens here.

Oh, why's that then

[Dr Rock]

Saw this thread on M*msn*t Terf Section

And this is exactly why Posie Parker is a liability

MerchedBeca · Today 12:49

Yes, she's charismatic, has style and says things out loud we all wish we'd had the ovaries to say.

But sometimes, the shit she says is fucking dangerous. HOW can she say she's standing for women's rights and then blithely say that our access to abortion is a price worth paying? WTFucking hell?

This isn't about elites, or head girls or any of that shit that Posie chucks at women who disagree with her. We're seeing the biggest pushback on women's rights since before women's lib, we need to build a grass roots movement to fight this, urgently, and Posie's tactics are harming us.

So, this morning someone called Billy Bragg out on his stance on women's rights, and he came back directly with a screenshot of Posie taking shit about Roe vs Wade.

We are NEVER going to convince the left wing that this is an issue they need to get to grips with if the loudest voice they hear on this Posie who's very obviously courting the US religious right, and if every time someone tries to have a conversation with the left about this topic, we're all smeared by association with Posie and whatever shit she's said recently. I know she says she's not a feminist but that detail is lost our detractors. She's a gift to those who want to paint us all as ultra right wing bigots, and this matters.

Absolutely nobody agrees with her. Most replies = Billy Bragg hates women so whatever.

Also lots of nonsense like this

I believe her point is that if you want to talk about women's rights to abortion, you need to have a biological definition of woman.

[greencalx]

I believe her point is that if you want to talk about women's rights to abortion, you need to have a biological definition of woman.

It barely needs saying on this site, but no you fucking don't.

[Kankurette]

That doesn't even make any sense. So if your definition of women includes trans women, then you should make abortion illegal? And you don't have to be a woman to get pregnant, AFAB NB people and trans men can still get pregnant, still need smear tests etc. just as trans women are still at risk of prostate cancer.

Also, nobody needs to paint you as right-wing bigots, dearie, because you ARE right-wing bigots. There does seem to be an overlap between TERFs and people who are against Black Lives Matter, for instance.

[Luornu]

That's a lot of words to say 'I'm both snotty and boring.' Jaysus!

Going back to the 'not too much skin not too high heels elbows off the table' woman (I know the thread has gone past her a bit now) all I can think is-Blimey! so much energy put into judging other people! What must it be like to devote so much of your limited time on earth fretting about other people who wear shoes you don't like or wear too tight trousers or something.

I don't understand the elbows on the table thing. Never did. My parents never said anything about it so I put my elbows on the table all the time probably. No one has ever said anything about it. It's a complete non issue in my life. What does it matter if someone puts their elbows on the table anyway? The world going to end or something? I don't even notice it.

Still, in my family we stopped eating at the table in about 1982 and ate on trays in front of the telly thereafter. The table got stuff piled up on it and no one could eat there anymore even if they wanted to. Guess we were probably common.

Oh well. never mind eh.

[Cold Meat Platter]

If your cause back in the 80s was vegetarianism/animal rights, and by some twist of fate, Thatcher shared those views, I can't imagine anyone celebrating her opinion that they agree with, and ignoring all the horrific shit

There was this old-school german vegetarian guy that was a right shit I heard

[Dr Rock]

Hitler wasn't a vegetarian.

[Kankurette]

Beat me to it. He did go through a phase but ultimately, he was a carnivore.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Never heard of the MN Trolls reddit before Kankurette mentioned it on here. The reddit is fascinating.

[Kankurette]

There's at least one other CaBber on there. Not everyone on MN Trolls is a gendercritter but there are some very vocal ones, including one who refuses to vote Labour because their stance on trans rights is like finding shit in ice cream.

I found a thread in FWR about Kemi Badenoch that's chock full of bananery. She's very liked on Mumsnet because she ~knows what a woman is~. Some posters have pointed out that she isn't going to be good for women due to her small state attitude, but one particular annoying poster called achillestoes kept bleating on about safeguarding children from gender nonsense. Yes, and you know what else helps with safeguarding children? NOT CUTTING FUNDING TO SOCIAL SERVICES.

A rare sensible post:

For goodness sake this stuff is getting ridiculous. Have you actually read her views and policy ideas? Or has she just said the buzzword you like to hear and do you're all in? It's absolutely ridiculous. Why don't you start looking at what will actually affect women in this country - economic policy, childcare, domestic violence help provision, money in healthcare and not be so bloody minded.

And at some point you might want to look at the type of people you are consistently aligning yourself with and think about what that might mean.

[Better Midlands]

achillestoes

She's nasty.

[Kankurette]

Oh yeah, proper 'all trans women are perverts who lie to get into women's prisons' vibes. 

I wonder if people who assume trans women are all potential sex offenders think trans women are all autogynephiles who get a kick out of wearing women's clothing.