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March 28, 2024, 06:34:13 PM

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Prosecco Stormfront [split topic]

Started by Kankurette, April 26, 2022, 08:11:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Kankurette

Yeah, there's a lot of threads about private schools. It's like the 'I'm totally left-wing, honest, but I'm voting Tory' thing. Just be honest and admit you'd rather send the kids to private school. And stop calling the Mail the Fail and apologising for posting links. Just admit you read it.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: Kankurette on April 28, 2022, 04:55:06 AMYeah, there's a lot of threads about private schools. It's like the 'I'm totally left-wing, honest, but I'm voting Tory' thing. Just be honest and admit you'd rather send the kids to private school. And stop calling the Mail the Fail and apologising for posting links. Just admit you read it.

I do wonder why anyone would pretend to be left wing (as opposed to yer typical social liberal) considering a large part of the political project in this country has been making left wing though or action inadmissable in 'polite society'?

I don't imagine there's a lot of union or labour organising chat.  I could be wrong, loudest voices dominate and such, moderators clearly have a certain preference

phantom_power

For them being a "leftie" just means not being racist or homophobic and maybe thinking there should be less homeless people without actually doing anything to change that

greencalx

Quote from: phantom_power on April 28, 2022, 08:16:19 AMFor them being a "leftie" just means not being racist or homophobic and maybe thinking there should be less homeless people without actually doing anything to change that

Exactly this – I think it's to distinguish themselves from those Tories who think it's all about markets and screwing the poor.

I left my experience of the politics threads out of my ramble above. Briefly, there was a thread matriarch who positioned themselves as the only person who had ever engaged in any critical thinking about politics. Being pro-EU, pro-gay etc there was a perception that this person was on the left, but of course they were vehemently anti-Corbyn and opposed to any truly progressive policies, particularly those that would involve tax increases. They seemed to believe that - by unstated means - private wealth would somehow magically channel itself into public service. I believe I once described this as a magic money tree position, to some positive response from less active posters so maybe there were some lurkers on the left who didn't want to put their heads above the parapet.

This was all against a background of going on about how their wonderful "DH" was so clever in their high-powered job and (never overtly but this came between the lines) earning enough that she could spend her whole day posting in MN while pretending to look after the children. I once brought up the issue of their persistent anti-tax position with them, and they exploded a little with something along the lines of "When have I ever said that? You know nothing about me..." Well, you've posted hundreds of times on these threads with fairly detailed comments on political issues, so I think I've got the gist of your position by now. To give credit, this person was quite perceptive on the issues facing society, but reluctant to face up to what was needed to solve them (and that this might entail marginally less comfortable - but still eminently bearable - personal circumstances).

There was one regular poster who was on the left - someone on the frontline in the NHS and it seemed some first-hand experience of how austerity politics had played out on the ground. They took quite a lot of shit from the matriarch's cronies. I think one was a retired civil servant who berated anyone "naive" enough to advocate the abolition of tuition fees from the comfort of their armchair and a final-salary pension scheme. This on the grounds that this is a "bung to the middle classes", a position that is illustrative of the mindset. The reason why it ends up being a "bung to the middle classes" is due to wider structural problems in the education system (see above) and the difficulties in accessing higher education if you're not already in the club. It was never explained how putting people from low-income families into tens of thousands of debt would address these structural problems. I wanted to ask this person why they were so content to pull the ladder up behind them. The health worker also received opprobrium for expressing mildly pro-Corbyn views (indeed, more pro-socialist rather than pro-Corbyn specifically, but the two would always get conflated) but rightly called the bullies out for "smearing" them.

I could go on, but I won't. I have no idea why I stuck it out for so long, but the transphobia was the last straw. People think the politics threads here are bad (and, to be fair, some of them are worth staying out of) but it is at least possible to have the occasional good-faith debate.

Kankurette

Which poster was that?
Quote from: Pink Gregory on April 28, 2022, 07:48:58 AMI do wonder why anyone would pretend to be left wing (as opposed to yer typical social liberal) considering a large part of the political project in this country has been making left wing though or action inadmissable in 'polite society'?

I don't imagine there's a lot of union or labour organising chat.  I could be wrong, loudest voices dominate and such, moderators clearly have a certain preference
They're not very pro-union on there. And Corbyn wasn't very popular either because of his stance on trans people (they hate Keith for the same reason), being pro-Palestine (which they equated with being antisemitic) and his economic policies. Like, there were people talking about how terrified they were of Corbyn getting in because their businesses would lose money and that sort of thing.

Context for the original post in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/craicnet/4537457-how-woke-is-ireland

QuoteNot looking for a debate on the rights and wrongs of this ideology. Just curious as to how deep-rooted this is in Ireland? As compared to say the UK (somewhat esp. in the public sector) and US (very much, though more in Democrat leaning areas).

I mean, there's a massive crackdown on trans kids and their parents in red states (because it's pretty obvious they're talking about trans people), and the Bible Belt isn't exactly ~woke~, so I don't know where the fuck they're getting the idea that the US is a trans paradise from.

Dr Rock

Thread: My daughter says she's transgender what should I do?

All the replies: What if your daughter said she thinks she's a tree?

Kankurette

They also like to compare being trans to identifying as an animal. Like those people who do puppy play.

Bently Sheds

Before I read Mumsnet my airing cupboard was a shapeless mess of mismatched duvet covers and pillowcases; it took ages to get a matching set together when changing the sheets. Then I read a Handy Hints thread that said, after washing & drying your bedding, stick the sheet/duvet cover/pillowcase in the other pillowcase to keep them all together.

Mind. Fucking. Blown.

Otherwise, fuck Mumsnet. But I do wonder, as stated above, how many accounts are sock puppets or hostile actors paid to sow discord & dissent - especially in the political and gender based threads/subforums...

I know people don't always need help to suddenly start believing terrible things, but part of me does wonder how much of the MN shift to full-on bigoted hellscape has been the product of infiltration by outside groups? Based on those Caelin Conrad videos on how GC cults recruit online, surely MN is a prime recruiting ground as it's the first port of call for parents looking for advice on how to deal with issues such as their kids coming out as trans.

I'd bet there are numerous bad faith actors on there responsible for insinuating trans bigotry into the majority of discussions, although they probably don't even need to do much now the GC rot has set in completely. Job done.


Kankurette

Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on April 28, 2022, 11:50:42 AMI know people don't always need help to suddenly start believing terrible things, but part of me does wonder how much of the MN shift to full-on bigoted hellscape has been the product of infiltration by outside groups? Based on those Caelin Conrad videos on how GC cults recruit online, surely MN is a prime recruiting ground as it's the first port of call for parents looking for advice on how to deal with issues such as their kids coming out as trans.

I'd bet there are numerous bad faith actors on there responsible for insinuating trans bigotry into the majority of discussions, although they probably don't even need to do much now the GC rot has set in completely. Job done.
I wouldn't be surprised. Like I said, they've had people on there trying to promote Us4Them and someone affiliated with that site promoting the anti-Family Sex Show petition was promoting it on MN. There's definitely people coming on that site with agendas. And loads of Mumsnetters are social conservatives anyway so they're easy prey.

It all reminds me of the Black Ajah plotline in The Wheel of Time, and how they don't even need to do that much work to cause trouble in the White Tower because plenty of non-Darkfriend sisters are doing their job for them. They just nudge things along a bit.

greencalx

There were definitely some bots in the run-up to the Brexit referendum. Somehow managed to trot out Faragian lines a couple of days before they surfaced on the campaign trail.

Kankurette

There was a weird one called Claig who loved Trump AND Corbyn and kept going on about metropolitan elites. Odd fellow.

imitationleather

Quote from: Kankurette on April 28, 2022, 03:33:45 PMThere was a weird one called Claig who loved Trump AND Corbyn and kept going on about metropolitan elites. Odd fellow.

Think he used to post here.

jobotic

Yeah but he was pretending about Corbyn

greencalx

Quote from: Kankurette on April 28, 2022, 03:33:45 PMThere was a weird one called Claig who loved Trump AND Corbyn and kept going on about metropolitan elites. Odd fellow.

Ah yes, I remember claig. In fact, I think that was where I first heard the phrase "liberal metropolitan elite"...

Kankurette

#46
Did you ever encounter Xenia? The mad Tory who owned her own island and thought giving kids chocolate would kill them?

ETA: from the thread about Katherine Birbalsingh saying girls can't understand maths with our tiny girl brains:
QuoteThe Mail publishes misogynist shite on a daily basis and I don't deny that. However, weirdly, they are also the feminist's friend at the moment as they've been one of the first newspapers to recognise the harm genderism is doing to women, and to platform actual sex-based feminism and feminists. Yes it's bizarre, but something is changing, and that's why you will see an article like this in the mail now, while the Guardian mainly focuses on trying to tell us men can be women.
Fucking hell, did this poster miss all the TERFy shite in the Guardian? And why do they never wonder why the Daily Mail is on their side?

greencalx

Quote from: Kankurette on April 28, 2022, 08:53:29 PMDid you ever encounter Xenia? The mad Tory who owned her own island and thought giving kids chocolate would kill them?

I recognise the name, but didn't form a picture of them.

QuoteETA: from the thread about Katherine Birbalsingh saying girls can't understand maths with our tiny girl brains:Fucking hell, did this poster miss all the TERFy shite in the Guardian? And why do they never wonder why the Daily Mail is on their side?

Not seeing the relevance to women in physics, which I think is what the KB stuff was all about. I have however had quite a few interesting conversations with women and nonbinary physics students and there's nothing at all wrong with their brains.

phantom_power

Does the Guardian mainly focus on telling us men can be women? I am pretty sure that is far from the case. How does their brain twist reality so much

Kankurette

The Guardian has a few trans-friendly writers, so therefore it's woke and hates women, unlike those nice tabloid papers.

phantom_power

Quote from: Kankurette on April 29, 2022, 10:07:02 AMThe Guardian has a few trans-friendly writers, so therefore it's woke and hates women, unlike those nice tabloid papers.

Owen Jones and...?

jobotic

There's this from yesterday

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/28/conversion-therapy-trans-person-torture-uk-government

And the usually terrible Zoe Williams wrote a piece saying that Labour should back trans rights.


Doesn't make up for all the Terfy shit but I'm sure it's enough for transphobes to declare them captured and woke.

Talking about trans women in women's safe spaces (of course)



No you're not, you're really not.

Kankurette

Is that the one about Brownies being mixed sex because it lets trans girls in?

bgmnts

You have to wonder how incredibly, incredibly insulated and ignorant they have been are where THIS is the turning point.

This is what has made them miserable, oppressed people wanting to have freedom to be women; not massive rates of domestic abuse, not catcalling, not daterape, not sexual abuse, not inequality in the workplace etc etc. But this.

Hate these people.

shoulders

If the Earth wasn't going to check out on humanity this century we'd still have centuries more to go of all this. Earth has the right idea really.  We are a major mistake.

Fambo Number Mive

Something Mumnset users seem to have to say is "and most of them were young men" when complaining about something. I remember a post from someone who was concerned about the lack of masks being worn in the town centre (entirely reasonably) but then saying "and most of them were young men." How is that relevant?

phantom_power

Admittedly I am not a woman, but my wife and daughter are and they manage to get through every day without having to tread on eggshells about anything regarding gender or sexuality. I think it is because they aren't fucking arseholes. In fact the only trouble either of them have ever had has been from men and, startlingly considering how perfect Mumsnet think they are, women.

Kankurette

You have to wonder why they worry so much about treading on eggshells and what they're so afraid of saying.

Elfking

Quote from: Kankurette on April 29, 2022, 07:33:50 PMYou have to wonder why they worry so much about treading on eggshells and what they're so afraid of saying.

This is right. You only have to worry about "treading on eggshells" if you are a twat who has to stop themselves from being a twat in polite company.