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March 29, 2024, 07:15:19 AM

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Hip Hop you've been listening to

Started by Joe Qunt, May 05, 2022, 03:35:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Mollusk

Quote from: bgmnts on August 14, 2022, 02:15:18 PMI've heard of gucci mane but not ugly mane. I may check them out if they're any good. There are just very very few modern musicians that make a legible pleasant sound to me, hip hop included. Which is strange because my taste is quite eclectic. Perhaps music is a young man's game.

Reckon if I was 22 I'd be lapping up lil bow wow and glock9 dubby or whatever.

I'm 35 and I inhale new music every day son.

Quote from: dontpaintyourteeth on August 14, 2022, 02:16:59 PMatrocity exhibition is the danny brown album of choice for me, clive

Without a doubt, but it's probably quite an intense starting point for the above criteria! It is incredible though, about as close to an accurate representation of a drug induced mental breakdown as I've ever heard in music. It makes me sweat.

dontpaintyourteeth

aye maybe it would be an intense introduction. it's so fucking good though!

Critcho

Atrocity Exhibition is amazing because it takes the kind of subject matter that other rappers would use to show off how cool they are (spending all your money on hookers n blow etc), but instead portrays it as a harrowing, burnt out nightmare.

bushwick

Chief Keef. Godfather of Drill, eccentric and unique artist (he's neurodivergent iirc), prolific AF and pretty much slept on by the industry nowadays. Whether you like him or not, he's been one of the most influential rap artists of the last decade.


(On the subject of not liking new rap and being stuck in the New York Golden Age - I'm 48 and have been listening to rap since "The Message" and I make it a point to always keep up with new stuff. Most of my favourite hip hop is post-Golden Age and I'm always finding new artists and regional styles that I love. 36 Chambers is a great album but it's nearly 30 years old at this point. I've got a few mates my own age whose taste pretty much got cast in iron around Illmatic times and can't seem to move on unless it's Griselda or something that explicitly harkens back to that period. Like Teddy Boys in the 80s or summat lol)

bgmnts

Quote from: bushwick on August 15, 2022, 06:44:17 AM(On the subject of not liking new rap and being stuck in the New York Golden Age - I'm 48 and have been listening to rap since "The Message" and I make it a point to always keep up with new stuff. Most of my favourite hip hop is post-Golden Age and I'm always finding new artists and regional styles that I love. 36 Chambers is a great album but it's nearly 30 years old at this point. I've got a few mates my own age whose taste pretty much got cast in iron around Illmatic times and can't seem to move on unless it's Griselda or something that explicitly harkens back to that period. Like Teddy Boys in the 80s or summat lol)


To counter, there are shitloads of people who are younger and primed for modern music who reject modern hip hop and hearken back to the good old days. Were there loads of young kids growing up listening to 80s music that were pining for 50s music? Unsure.

I suppose it depends on how much you're able to care about things being derivative or less authentic seeming or whatever.

I can only say from my experience, as someone who isn't a massive hip hop fan, that Enter the Wu-Tang is probably the apex of the genre; the perfect combination of lyricism, flow, sampling, beats and aesthetic. It feels real when you listen to it, and the kung fu twist is obviously going to ensure a very loyal attachment to it as it's quite niche.

I suppose a good measure is to look at artists from the 90s who are still big players. Is Eminem's art now as good as it was in the 90s/early 00s?

The Mollusk

Quote from: bgmnts on August 15, 2022, 07:34:05 PMI can only say from my experience, as someone who isn't a massive hip hop fan, that Enter the Wu-Tang is probably the apex of the genre; the perfect combination of lyricism, flow, sampling, beats and aesthetic. It feels real when you listen to it ...

For measure, I could easily say very similar if not the same for Freddie Gibbs and Madlib's album Piñata (assuming that by "the genre" you mean gangsta rap, since it would be unfair to put decades of various evolving subgenres under one umbrella for the sake of saying hip hop simply isn't as good nowadays).

Piñata fully operates in the same realm as vintage Wu-Tang and came out only 8 years ago, a time when hip hop was becoming a lot more experimental especially following the release of Yeezus, so it's not unreasonable at all to say that classics of a certain style of music which stay true to a core aesthetic of decades past can still emerge in the present day.

Anyway broadening the point about hip hop "feeling real" when you listen to it, as I alluded to before loads of modern hip hop feels as real to me as the classics, for various reasons. Earl Sweatshirt, Vince Staples, Danny Brown, Death Grips, Mach-Hommy, Denzel Curry, those artists and many more are about as real as you can get in their own right.

monkfromhavana


monkfromhavana

Can I just slip this one in here, as I've only just come across it. I know it's old, but I'm just a casual hip-hop fan



I'm sorry but, objectively, there is no way that Freddie Gibbs and Madlib's Pinata is anywhere near as good as Enter The 36 Chambers. It just isn't. In terms of originality, lyricism, atmosphere, variety...

...Pinata's actually a bit shit IMO. Flow is pretty repetitive, and Madlib's production is not as interesting as it used to be.

Joe Oakes

Quote from: monkfromhavana on August 26, 2022, 10:00:48 PMCan I just slip this one in here, as I've only just come across it. I know it's old, but I'm just a casual hip-hop fan



Yay! Unanimous Decision were from my neck of the woods, rarely get a mention, but were one of the better early 90s UK hip hop groups. Their 'It Ain't Clever' EP was great, but this is probably their best known song:


WestHill

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on June 02, 2022, 07:09:17 PM@bushwick sure you've already heard it but just incase


Fan-made but something that sounds 100% like it should be in the cannon.  I always wished DOOM and RZA would recreate it proper but sadly it wasn't to be.

I like the beat but Doom's verse is all out of sync


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: WestHill on September 02, 2022, 08:12:17 AMI like the beat but Doom's verse is all out of sync

Yep you are right, that is why it would have been ace if they had actually recreated it.


Utter Shit

Quote from: bushwick on August 15, 2022, 06:44:17 AM(On the subject of not liking new rap and being stuck in the New York Golden Age - I'm 48 and have been listening to rap since "The Message" and I make it a point to always keep up with new stuff. Most of my favourite hip hop is post-Golden Age and I'm always finding new artists and regional styles that I love. 36 Chambers is a great album but it's nearly 30 years old at this point. I've got a few mates my own age whose taste pretty much got cast in iron around Illmatic times and can't seem to move on unless it's Griselda or something that explicitly harkens back to that period. Like Teddy Boys in the 80s or summat lol)

Beyond the basic concept of rapping rather than snging, there's very little musically to connect (most) modern hip-hop to the golden age sound, so I can completely understand why people who loved one don't enjoy the other.

If you're invested in hip-hop culture then you have a reason to move with the times, but musically I don't see any reason why a fan of Illmatic is any more likely to enjoy modern hip-hop than any other genre. It doesn't sound the same, or even similar. I don't think it's intransigence or a refusal to move on, it's just taste. I love the sound of boom bap drums and soul samples, there's no reason why that should mean I will enjoy the modern, industrial, electronic madness that RTJ, for example, do. They're probably a good example - critically acclaimed, accepted as among the best of modern hip-hop...I just don't get it. It's a completely different style, one I don't really enjoy.

Joe Qunt

Quote from: Utter Shit on September 02, 2022, 11:30:00 AMBeyond the basic concept of rapping rather than snging, there's very little musically to connect (most) modern hip-hop to the golden age sound, so I can completely understand why people who loved one don't enjoy the other.

If you're invested in hip-hop culture then you have a reason to move with the times, but musically I don't see any reason why a fan of Illmatic is any more likely to enjoy modern hip-hop than any other genre. It doesn't sound the same, or even similar. I don't think it's intransigence or a refusal to move on, it's just taste. I love the sound of boom bap drums and soul samples, there's no reason why that should mean I will enjoy the modern, industrial, electronic madness that RTJ, for example, do. They're probably a good example - critically acclaimed, accepted as among the best of modern hip-hop...I just don't get it. It's a completely different style, one I don't really enjoy.

What you call "the golden age sound" can more accurately be described as New York boom-bap/LA underground. There's actually plenty of links between modern hip-hop and the Golden Age.

Artists from the South - specifically Memphis - such as Three 6 Mafia, Tommy Wright III and DJ Spanish Fly directly influenced the originators of trap music in Atlanta. Listen to any of their work from the '90s and you'll hear the similarities to today's artists.

If you're truly invested in hip hop culture, you should appreciate all the diverse sounds the genre has produced, rather than using one specific subgenre as the standard for all future artists.

Ironically, Run The Jewels is a favourite of people who want a return to that sound. El-P is an alternative hip-hop legend and has been flying the flag for boom-bap purists all his career.

Utter Shit

Quote from: Joe Qunt on September 02, 2022, 12:38:28 PMIf you're truly invested in hip hop culture, you should appreciate all the diverse sounds the genre has produced, rather than using one specific subgenre as the standard for all future artists.

We need to define what we're talking about here - there's a difference between appreciating (or more accurately respecting) diverse sounds, and *enjoying* them. I respect (most) modern hip-hop, it just isn't to my taste. Would you consider that not appreciating it?

I totally agree that you shouldn't use one sub-genre as the standard, but that's not what I'm talking about. I wouldn't judge anyone for liking modern hip-hop, and I'm certainly not one of those people who say "this isn't real hip-hop" because it doesn't have scratching and big beats...but equally, I don't get the logic that because you like one form of hip-hop, you 'should' like another form that has almost no similarity.

Aside from anything else, it's kind of out of your hands to an extent, you can't force yourself to enjoy how something sounds. For example I've tried really hard to get into modern Kanye and Kendrick, but for whatever reason I just don't really enjoy it. I wish I did, because I haven't really *loved* a hip-hop album in nearly 20 years (off the top of my head The Black Album and College Dropout would probably be the most recent hip-hop albums I'd personally consider classics) and I see how much love latter-day Kanye and all Kendrick's stuff gets, from hip-hop fans whose opinions I trust. But I can't force myself to enjoy it. I could pretend, but what's the point?

I say this as someone who has loved hip-hop culture (but especially that 90s sound and the culture around it) for a couple of decades and even had a small amount of success in making and selling beats, so while I'm by no means an expert, I'd consider myself to be invested in the culture at least to some extent.

Regarding RTJ, that was a point I had intended to make before but forgot - I love the older stuff that they did separately, I just don't like the modern production style of their albums (for the most part) and that's a dealbreaker for me. It doesn't make their ability as rappers any less, but I don't enjoy listening to it.

The new JID album is great (except 'Money' which makes me cringe a bit), his rapping ability is so good and he seems to have a million different flows and a voice which veers between Kendrick, Andre 3000 and Anderson Paak (he also sings). Goes deep into lots of concepts and is well structured with plenty of thought behind it and no bad songs really.

It's a shame '2007' didn't make the album for sample clearance reasons as it's a perfect final track:


Joe Qunt

Quote from: Utter Shit on September 02, 2022, 01:56:14 PMWe need to define what we're talking about here - there's a difference between appreciating (or more accurately respecting) diverse sounds, and *enjoying* them. I respect (most) modern hip-hop, it just isn't to my taste. Would you consider that not appreciating it?

I totally agree that you shouldn't use one sub-genre as the standard, but that's not what I'm talking about. I wouldn't judge anyone for liking modern hip-hop, and I'm certainly not one of those people who say "this isn't real hip-hop" because it doesn't have scratching and big beats...but equally, I don't get the logic that because you like one form of hip-hop, you 'should' like another form that has almost no similarity.

Aside from anything else, it's kind of out of your hands to an extent, you can't force yourself to enjoy how something sounds. For example I've tried really hard to get into modern Kanye and Kendrick, but for whatever reason I just don't really enjoy it. I wish I did, because I haven't really *loved* a hip-hop album in nearly 20 years (off the top of my head The Black Album and College Dropout would probably be the most recent hip-hop albums I'd personally consider classics) and I see how much love latter-day Kanye and all Kendrick's stuff gets, from hip-hop fans whose opinions I trust. But I can't force myself to enjoy it. I could pretend, but what's the point?

I say this as someone who has loved hip-hop culture (but especially that 90s sound and the culture around it) for a couple of decades and even had a small amount of success in making and selling beats, so while I'm by no means an expert, I'd consider myself to be invested in the culture at least to some extent.

Regarding RTJ, that was a point I had intended to make before but forgot - I love the older stuff that they did separately, I just don't like the modern production style of their albums (for the most part) and that's a dealbreaker for me. It doesn't make their ability as rappers any less, but I don't enjoy listening to it.

Apologies pal, I think I've got the wrong end of it there. I was making the point that modern hip hop has more in common with '90s artists than you stated, which was more diverse than boom-bap. Kind of irrelevant but it just rankled with me.

Utter Shit

Oh yeah I didn't mean to say that the 90s was only boom bap, I was never really into the southern stuff with a few exceptions (I'll go to my grave convinced that Bubba Sparxxx's Deliverance is an unjustly ignored classic, and possibly the peak of Timbaland's production) and didn't listen to a huge amount outside of east and west coast at the time.

Malcy

Not Hip-Hop as such although I've been listening to a lot of great stuff recently but DJ Premier has blessed LIAM FUCKING GALLAGHER of all people with a great beat/remix.



Malcy

And talking of DJ Premier he recently released the first in a series of EP's that are going to be done by various producers.

5 short track which are all great but the return of Slick Rick is the best part of it. Even if it's on a song with Lil Wayne.



dontpaintyourteeth

I suppose it's too obvious to say the danger mouse and black thought album is really good?

the danger mouse and black thought album is really good

Joe Qunt

Obvious but correct. It's one of the best albums of the year and that's saying something considering the quality of releases we've had this year.

generally never been a fan of Danger Mouse's production but Cheat Codes is strikingly well mixed

Joe Oakes

Yeah, that Strangers beat is incredible, probably my favourite production from him since DANGERDOOM. If you haven't already, his 2003 album with Jemini, Ghetto Pop Life, is worth checking out:



WhoMe

Got round to Robert Glasper's Black Radio III yesterday. Really like it for the most part. Black Superhero and Shine especially good, and I'd not heard of D Smoke before but he is great on Shine



bushwick

Absolute belter of a CASISDEAD track from a decade ago which I had never heard before, with the usual artful/nihilistic/hilarious wordplay.

"Family hate me, it's a fact/it's cool though, I can take the flack/dad's side hate me coz I sell crack/mum's side hate me coz I'm black/to them I'm just some dirty n****, hurts them more to know that I stack/half a gram, that's thirty knicker, letting you know right off the bat."