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X-Men discussion thread

Started by bgmnts, May 17, 2022, 12:03:04 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

bgmnts

As per reasonable request, a place to specifically discuss the merry mutants, as I am currently retrospectively reading them and there are some X fans here.

Quote from: bgmnts on May 16, 2022, 12:14:01 PMOkay so X-Men first 66!

#1: Very standard old school shite, all characters explaining exactly what they are doing and it's stupid (but there's a certain charm to it). Poor Jean Grey is victim to 60s misogyny, Magneto is a bit of a dumb moustache twirler and Xavier is genuinely a bit of a creepy, horrid, authoritarian bastard.

#2 Vanisher is silly but I like him and want him to return. One panel of interesting team dynamic and individual personalities after getting spanked by Vanisher: Iceman and Angle rowing, Beast guilty and stunned, Cyclops all business and Jean Grey pensive. X-Men go from nobodies to famous heroes and then laughing stocks in about 30 pages. Team already goes nuclear by wheeling out Professor X to mindful Vanisher into oblivion because the team isn't good enough. Yay?

Oh and interestingly, baldy doesn't need Cerebro to locate mutants, at least in the states.

Another thing, in the first issue Iceman's reaction to Jean Grey's arrival is indifference whilst the rest of the boys stare out the windows like the groovy incels they are, yet in the next issue he is racing out to escort her. I wonder if they toyed with the idea of making Bobby gay but didnt get the nod from whoever was running the company?

Quote from: bgmnts on May 16, 2022, 02:23:58 PM#3 A baffling issue. The team essentially kidnap The Blob from his home in the circus and force him to become an X Men or else. When he refuses Professor X instantly decided to mind rape him. There are no discussions or even hints towards the ethics of this. Blob escapes the clutches of these bastards and comes back with his circus troupe and these normal humans wreck the X Men, until Prof X saves them then mind rapes the whole circus and yay X Men win.

Christ knows what they were thinking in this one, the X Men look like absolute chumps. Almost villainous actually. One panel has Blob bald when in the previous and subsequent panels he has the same nerdy haircut. Bit of a mess really.

Oh yeah and Xavier is in love with Jean Grey, lovely stuff.

Quote from: bgmnts on May 16, 2022, 11:58:09 PMThat's fair. But then he is a teenager and yeah literally a few pages later he's horny for Jean as well.

Issue #5 sees Xavier broken after a hilariously stupid explosion to the face from the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (already established as regular villains) and out for the count. Toad (one of my favourite characters dont care) is used as a ploy by Magneto by posing as a track and field athlete about to be lynched by the crowd for being too good at hopping.

The ruse fails and it just descends into a big fight and rescue mission for the rest of the issue. They rescue Angel from Asteroid M and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are shown to not really into being evil mutants but owe Magneto a favour. The end of the issue shows OH MY GOD Xavier the bastard was just pretending to be fucked to see if they had the ability to pass the end of year exam. I guess they're no longer students now.


First letters page at the end, one hilariously applauds the transcendence beyond mere "good guys vs bad guys" and Lee's response is "Like we always say: In OUR mags, you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys without a scorecard".
This despite the fact that the card carrying group of stupidly bad moustache twirling villains are called the Brotherhood of EVIL Mutants. Shades of grey.

Another funny letter opens with "I really think you are the greatest ever! You may be conceited but..."


Quote from: bgmnts on May 17, 2022, 12:32:41 AMNext issue has Namor the Sub Mariner OMG! Apparently reeling from a knock back by Sue Storm in FF, he's having a bit of a sulk and Magneto wants them to join forces. Magneto can do like mental projection shit as well Xavier. We really are in a what the fuck lets try everything stage at the moment. Namor wants none of Magneto really and so everyone fights again. Magneto runs away again and Namor dives into the sea, cursing all air breathers forever na-more.

The letters are overwhelmingly in favour of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch becoming goodies or having their new book. You can tell the readers are much cleverer than presumably comics creators think as the only two characters who are somewhat greyish they love. I'm expecting a face turn from them within the next couple of issues.

Oh fuck, spoilers by the way!

madhair60

I read X-Men in later years, got the first 5 or 6 Essential X-Men volumes (if anyone is selling any of the later ones, please get in touch lol) in order to catch up. I loved the X-Men and enjoyed all their stories more or less, than an event called Secret Wars happened, all the creative teams got changed, and it came back really boring and shitty; repeating the same beats over and over. The exact panel I dropped X-Men was one of Callisto lamenting "The Morlocks are dying again!"; the sheer repetition just wore me out.

When I found out about House of X/Powers of X, I jumped back on, but around eight volumes (of 16+) into the new status quo, I'm finding myself a little exhausted. It is good though.

Magnum Valentino

I've just recieved the five volumes that cover Morrison into Whedon in the post which I've not read in years and years, part of my big library rebuild after having to sell everything in 2016. Looking forward to following this thread.

Povidone

Quote from: madhair60 on May 17, 2022, 12:41:35 PMWhen I found out about House of X/Powers of X, I jumped back on, but around eight volumes (of 16+) into the new status quo, I'm finding myself a little exhausted. It is good though.

Been interested in checking out the recent reboot stuff with Krakoa and all that but it looks like it's already pretty convoluted with about 100 X-titles seemingly coming out at once. Would happily shell out for good collected versions as I really struggle with reading comics online.

That said I did a huge binge of the classic Claremont 80's run on comixology a few years back and it was quality, beasted a lot of the early New Mutants which is top quality stuff; harrowing storylines, dark horror and teen angst with some lovely artwork before it eventually gets 90s-ified with Cable and X-Force.

bgmnts

I will admit, going through a reading that will take me through different eras and massive shakeups, it does fill me with some anxieties. I am excited to re-read the 70s and 80s Claremont and to get stuck into X Factor and New Mutants but as madhair demonstrated, I'm not looking forward to getting invested in characters only for the whole thing to shift dramatically and to have to get into a new status quo. But, that's comic books I suppose isn't it?

madhair60

Quote from: Povidone on May 17, 2022, 01:29:24 PMBeen interested in checking out the recent reboot stuff with Krakoa and all that but it looks like it's already pretty convoluted with about 100 X-titles seemingly coming out at once. Would happily shell out for good collected versions as I really struggle with reading comics online.

They're doing these trades called Dawn of X and Reign of X (so far) which collect EVERYTHING and IN ORDER, which is refreshing.

Mister Six

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on May 17, 2022, 01:12:58 PMI've just recieved the five volumes that cover Morrison into Whedon in the post which I've not read in years and years, part of my big library rebuild after having to sell everything in 2016. Looking forward to following this thread.

I read the Morrison run in a massive omnibus earlier this year. I loved all the stuff with the school kids and the glimpses of how society is reacting to mutants (eg. mutant celebrities), but the plots with the actual X-Men left me cold - I just don't really care about Cyclops and Jean's marriage problems, or Beast pretending to be gay to piss off his ex-girlfriend or whatever. Really wish Morrison had been able to just focus on their new characters properly, although perhaps that was never their wish/intention.

Spoiler alert
Also, the reveal about a particular character made no sense, even if it was planned from the start.
[close]

bgmnts

Yeah Cyclops is quite boring to be fair, which leads me to:

Issue #7: Return of the Blob.

Team graduates and Xavier fucks off to go and do whatever he does before he presumably returns in a few issues. Scott being the one  with no character is given the leadership role. Seeds planted for potential love triangle between Angel, Jean and Cyclops. We get a quick look at a jazz cafe in Greenwich Village that is full of dirty hippies doing beat poetry where Iceman fancies the waitress Zelda. Beast has large feet.

Introduction of Cerebro! It's for Scott, not Xavier. Scott broods because he is SO POWERFUL what if loses control and decides to be alone at his desk, waiting for something to happen. The perennial losers The Brotherhood find Blob at his carnival (Mastermind perving on Scarlet Witch and wanting to lead by the way) and ask him to join. He is still suffering from Xavier's mind rape and just wants to be left alone. An attack by Mags jolts his brain and he joins the Brotherhood out of spite.

Cerebro bleeps, Cyclops assembles the team and they fight Brotherhood. End of fight sees Mags launch torpedoes at X-Men and big boi Blob gets in the way and takes three missiles to the face, no harm done.

He just sadly refuses the x-men and walks off into the distance, going back to being a sideshow freak at the carnival, learning never to trust ever again.

Poor Blob:(

Letters page includes salutations from Thailand and a lad called Rocky absolutely tearing into Lee and Kirby about the costumes and the lack of progression on Cyclops and Jean banging.

As an aside, my favourite X characters have always been Iceman, Nightcrawler and Toad. Reading these early issues, I actually find Beast to be the most well written character as he seems to struggle with guilt, or at least it's hinted at, and, even if it's a bit obvious, the contrast of him being beastly in appearance and physique but also the most erudite and thoughtful does work.

Magnum Valentino

Quote from: bgmnts on May 17, 2022, 10:26:46 PMYeah Cyclops is quite boring to be fair, which leads me to:

Issue #7: Return of the Blob.

Team graduates and Xavier fucks off to go and do whatever he does before he presumably returns in a few issues. Scott being the one  with no character is given the leadership role. Seeds planted for potential love triangle between Angel, Jean and Cyclops. We get a quick look at a jazz cafe in Greenwich Village that is full of dirty hippies doing beat poetry where Iceman fancies the waitress Zelda. Beast has large feet.

Introduction of Cerebro! It's for Scott, not Xavier. Scott broods because he is SO POWERFUL what if loses control and decides to be alone at his desk, waiting for something to happen. The perennial losers The Brotherhood find Blob at his carnival (Mastermind perving on Scarlet Witch and wanting to lead by the way) and ask him to join. He is still suffering from Xavier's mind rape and just wants to be left alone. An attack by Mags jolts his brain and he joins the Brotherhood out of spite.

Cerebro bleeps, Cyclops assembles the team and they fight Brotherhood. End of fight sees Mags launch torpedoes at X-Men and big boi Blob gets in the way and takes three missiles to the face, no harm done.

He just sadly refuses the x-men and walks off into the distance, going back to being a sideshow freak at the carnival, learning never to trust ever again.

Poor Blob:(

Letters page includes salutations from Thailand and a lad called Rocky absolutely tearing into Lee and Kirby about the costumes and the lack of progression on Cyclops and Jean banging.

As an aside, my favourite X characters have always been Iceman, Nightcrawler and Toad. Reading these early issues, I actually find Beast to be the most well written character as he seems to struggle with guilt, or at least it's hinted at, and, even if it's a bit obvious, the contrast of him being beastly in appearance and physique but also the most erudite and thoughtful does work.

I saved this panel years ago because I loved the way he spoke. Is it from that issue or an earlier one?


bgmnts

Issue #8: Anus the Untouchable.

Xavier was off panel for what? One issue? Beast quits the team in anger - for about 5 minutes - after rescuing a kid and being almost lynched for it, and tries to become a pro-wrestler, but cannot touch Anus the Untouchable (real name Unus but Anus here). Cyclops hits the panic wtf do I do button and Prof X is spelunking in a cave in the Balkans in a floating wheelchair somehow, looking for someone called Lucifer! 

Anus is deadset on joining the Brotherhood (fuck knows why they are abject losers) and his test is to best the X-Men. The team only manage to incapacitate Anus and arrive back to find Beast is back! He is making a special bullshit sci fi ray that will increase Anus' powers but cannot possibly tell anyone his plan because then the team can think he has betrayed them for a few pages.

Anus gets blasted by Beast's machine and cannot touch anything, he cannot even eat. Beast promises to make him back the way he was if Anus promises never to cause trouble, to which he agrees, and walks off. So Beast is a certified tech genius as well as the only character so far who actually gets pissed off at humans being shits. Cementing himself as my favourite again.

Letters pages mix of fawning best comic ever and ideas on how to make it the best comics ever. Couple of them touch on the fact that there is a dearth of good villains (although readers fucking LOVE Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch) which is fair as Anus was basically Blob really. They criticise the overuse of the Brotherhood which really is fair as Mags has been big villain since issue one and I think his team has been main villain or behind villain in maybe 6 of these 8 issues.

One guy wants Vanisher back, which is fine by me he has potential.

Next up: The X-Men meet THE AVENGERS!

bgmnts

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on May 17, 2022, 10:48:05 PMI saved this panel years ago because I loved the way he spoke. Is it from that issue or an earlier one?



Ha that's Blob's first appearance. Still a really bizarre issue.

I quite like Blob because he wants nothing to do with either of these stupid teams and just wants to get on, and he knows he's hot shit. His ending in his second appearance is genuinely a big downer.

bgmnts

Number 9: Lucifer and the Avengers.

Bastard Xavier gets caught by Lucifer, who as far as I can tell is a lad in a hood who makes stuff. He is the reason Xavier is in a wheelchair (it's not explained so i'll assume it'll be retconned). Prof reaches out to the gang and they sail to Europe, only to meet... The Avengers! Thor's hammer Mjolnir has detected evil and it is weirdly in Bavaria (isnt that where Dr Doom lives?).

X-Men and Avengers fight because a big fuckoff worldending bomb is linked to Lucifer's heartbeat so Xavier can't let the Avengers to hurt him. A stretch but whatever. Xavier uses classic mindrape to subdue Lucifer, then reaches out to Thor and all is well. Avengers leave it to the mutants and walk off, and we discover the Avengers take it in turns to be leader for the week.

X and Cyke (his nickname now) combine to defuse the bomb and all is well, Xavier letting Lucifer go.

Scott and Jean are very horny for each other but just cant act on it because. Weirdly, Scott's anxieties over being so powerful are bizarre considering he can shoot lasers from his eyes, and he cant even control it, whereas Jean can move objects with her mind and Iceman can literaly manipulate molecules, so fuck knows why he is recongised as the powerful one. Iceman finally is starting to look like a man of ice rather than being covered in snow, but fans are NOT happy at all that he has lost his little boots.

I always look forward to the letters page because their nerdy enthusiasm is just a joy. Still gagging for Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch and Lee stubbornly refuses to give Bobby back his boots. Interestingly, a lot of fans want the X-Men to have different uniforms, and there is a big complaint that there have been a lot of 'returns' of villains all across Lee's work; Spider-Man, FF and X-Men. Is this true of the first too? Lee gets a bit arsey about it.

letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on May 18, 2022, 12:32:13 AMNumber 9: Lucifer and the Avengers.

Bastard Xavier gets caught by Lucifer, who as far as I can tell is a lad in a hood who makes stuff. He is the reason Xavier is in a wheelchair (it's not explained so i'll assume it'll be retconned). Prof reaches out to the gang and they sail to Europe, only to meet... The Avengers! Thor's hammer Mjolnir has detected evil and it is weirdly in Bavaria (isnt that where Dr Doom lives?).

X-Men and Avengers fight because a big fuckoff worldending bomb is linked to Lucifer's heartbeat so Xavier can't let the Avengers to hurt him. A stretch but whatever. Xavier uses classic mindrape to subdue Lucifer, then reaches out to Thor and all is well. Avengers leave it to the mutants and walk off, and we discover the Avengers take it in turns to be leader for the week.

X and Cyke (his nickname now) combine to defuse the bomb and all is well, Xavier letting Lucifer go.

Scott and Jean are very horny for each other but just cant act on it because. Weirdly, Scott's anxieties over being so powerful are bizarre considering he can shoot lasers from his eyes, and he cant even control it, whereas Jean can move objects with her mind and Iceman can literaly manipulate molecules, so fuck knows why he is recongised as the powerful one. Iceman finally is starting to look like a man of ice rather than being covered in snow, but fans are NOT happy at all that he has lost his little boots.

I always look forward to the letters page because their nerdy enthusiasm is just a joy. Still gagging for Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch and Lee stubbornly refuses to give Bobby back his boots. Interestingly, a lot of fans want the X-Men to have different uniforms, and there is a big complaint that there have been a lot of 'returns' of villains all across Lee's work; Spider-Man, FF and X-Men. Is this true of the first too? Lee gets a bit arsey about it.

The letters pages aren't on the Unlimited versions of these issues so I'm curious what they made of issue 10, as for me that's a prime example of Lee's weakest moves during this period.

Dayraven

QuoteThey criticise the overuse of the Brotherhood which really is fair as Mags has been big villain since issue one and I think his team has been main villain or behind villain in maybe 6 of these 8 issues.
I don't think any other 60s Marvel series relied on one enemy nearly as much as X-Men does Magneto and the Brotherhood.

Dr Rock

I like many periods of the X-Men but the Byrne/Clarement/Austin run is the best. Byrne's art never looked better (aside from most of his FF run), and his art plus Terry Austin's inks were streets ahead.

bakabaka

Quote from: Dr Rock on May 18, 2022, 10:23:56 AMI like many periods of the X-Men but the Byrne/Clarement/Austin run is the best. Byrne's art never looked better (aside from most of his FF run), and his art plus Terry Austin's inks were streets ahead.
This was what got me really into comics. I started off just reading Howard the Duck because I love absurdist satire. Then one day I saw an X-men cover that looked interesting and on opening it, the first page included one panel of an Edinburgh shop window being turned into a swarm of bees. As this wasn't what I expected from a superhero comic, I bought it and was hooked for the entire run of C/B/A's team.
I had liked Austin's precise, clean style from his work at DC with Neal Adams and George Pérez, and the pairing with Byrne's 'clear line'-style pencils was wonderful. Sadly, the improvement in print quality and the arrival of digital artwork seems to have killed that style off completely.

The What If (comic) revisiting the Phoenix saga really pissed me off as the original story worked so well, but I had no idea just how often the story would be chewed up, mangled and diminished in multiple repetitions. Which led directly to stopping reading almost all Marvel titles, despite occasionally working in a comic shop.

Magnum Valentino

Quote from: Dayraven on May 18, 2022, 10:00:16 AMI don't think any other 60s Marvel series relied on one enemy nearly as much as X-Men does Magneto and the Brotherhood.

Let's take a look at the first 38 Spider-Mans, the Ditko run, to see how it compares. After typing this out, it's actually staggering how high the hit rate is. I'd only consider the Ringmaster and the Clown to be duds with no really memorable stories, most of the rest have been part of some real classics and when they reappear it always felt like it meant something.

1.   Chameleon
2.   Vulture
3.   Doctor Octopus
4.   The Sandman
5.   Doctor Doom
6.   The Lizard
7.   The Vulture
8.   The Living Brain
9.   Electro
10.   The Enforcers – Montana, Ox and Fancy Dan – and the fucking BIG MAN yesssssssssss
11.   Doctor Octopus
12.   Doctor Octopus
13.   Mysterio
14.   The Green Goblin
15.   Kraven the Hunter
16.   The Ringmaster (and Daredevil, on a technicality)
17.   Green Goblin
18.   Sandman
19.   Sandman AND the Enforcers
20.   The Scorpion
21.   The Bettle
22.   The Clown and the Masters of Menace
23.   The Green Goblin
24.   His own mind (with illisions of most of the above)
25.   The Spider Slayer
26.   Crime Master, Green Goblin
27.   Green Goblin
28.   Molten Man
29.   Scorpion
30.   The Cat
31.   "The Master Planner"
32.   Part 2
33.   Part 3 (It's Doctor Octopus)
34.   Kraven
35.   Molten Man
36.   The Looter
37.   Robot Master
38.   Joe

Even after Ditko leaves you get the Rhino and the Kingpin almost immediately, with the Prowler not far behind.

I'd say early Spidey fares best with villain usage, although the Fantastic Four did get to twat actual Hitler if I remember right.

Dr Rock

Yes, at that time, everyone who died, stayed dead. Jean Grey was maybe the first to return from the dead, and since then being dead has been a minor inconvenience and nobody believes if a character dies they are gone forever. I mostly stopped reading Marvel in the mid to late 80s, occasionally following a run that I liked. But basically it was all downhill after the first secret wars (except for She-Hulk being in the FF).

Any fans of the annual where the X-men fought Draclia? Liked that.

Magnum Valentino

I'm a fan of Tomb of Draclia in general but don't think I've read that, must look it up.

bgmnts

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on May 18, 2022, 11:16:45 AMLet's take a look at the first 38 Spider-Mans, the Ditko run, to see how it compares. After typing this out, it's actually staggering how high the hit rate is. I'd only consider the Ringmaster and the Clown to be duds with no really memorable stories, most of the rest have been part of some real classics and when they reappear it always felt like it meant something.

1.   Chameleon
2.   Vulture
3.   Doctor Octopus
4.   The Sandman
5.   Doctor Doom
6.   The Lizard
7.   The Vulture
8.   The Living Brain
9.   Electro
10.   The Enforcers – Montana, Ox and Fancy Dan – and the fucking BIG MAN yesssssssssss

Fucking hell so that's 10 different villains in the first 10? At least 5 or so that are iconic villains? Spider-Man fans got the good stuff early on it seems.

X-fans get Magneto and the Brotherhood, Vanisher, Blob, Anus and Lucifer.

bgmnts

Issue 10: Ka-zaaar (i pronounce it as Rimmer pronounces Quagaars)

Some more "oh how i love him/her" thoughts from Scott and Jean; beyond that, razor thin issue. Kazar shows up on telly in the antarctica, gang find him under the ice and enter land of the lost. They fight cavemen, they go home. The end.

Kazar has a sabretooth named Zabu.

I noticed there really isnt even a basic set up and payoff in these issues, at the start of the issue Jean is putting together all parts of a rifle and needs to concentrate and does it. So you'd think there would be more danger room set ups with payoffs at the end. There are some of them and maybe I'm not paying close enough attention but considering how spelled out everything is you think they could do a better job. As of its time as these are, i'm still enjoying it all. 9 more Lee issues to go.

Letters were fine, there are a lot more women readers than I thought there would be, and they usually have the best stuff. One writes she wants a backstory to Xavier (she's in love with him) and forming the team (she is also convinced real mutants exist, another woman wrote in a similar thing before) and one woman writes that the correct term is PYSCHOKINESIS, not fucking TELEKINESIS. Owned.

One guy is pissed that Kirby's art is sloppy, they dont take it seriously and that he may be overworked, at least compared to Don Heck and Dick Ayers on the Avengers. Lee replies with "you're entitled to your bone-headed opinion!"

An AMAZING announcement from Stan concerning the letters and new character:

QuoteAnyway, we think that Zabu's long-haired pard is the most exciting new charafter we've come up with in months - and if you don't agree, we're liable to bring Magneto bwck again for another four issues! Let us know fast huh? We're sitting on the edge of our seats!

Unsure if they're just pure taking the piss here or at their wits end from staying up all night every night balancing all these books but that is an incredible bit.

bgmnts

#11: Iceman gets his boots back.

Weird Shaw Brothers wuxia looking guy is detected on Xavier's new mutant detecting machine... The Stranger! We find him in NYC renting a room and it turns out he can do everything. He walks through a wall of a random building he is drawn to and who does he find? That's right, Magneto and his team. Magneto recruits him as per and Stranger fucks em all off, literally solidifies Mastermind and teleports himself, Mags and my boy Toad away, they get in a tizz and he cocoons them. X Men fight brotherhood as this happens and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver fuck off back to Europe bht not before saying "we COULD be back to tip the scales who knows".

Turns out Stranger is searching for mutant life across the universe and teleports Mags and Toad away again. Big result for X-Men, Xavier callously wiping away Mags, Mastermind and Toad off the Cerebro list.

However, Xavier detects an even stronger threat! Perhaps the biggest threat they've ever faced!

Letters page is a big 'well, we did it, we binned Magneto, this is what you wanted isnt it?' And the first letter is a guy saying they love Magneto and that they took a poll at his workplace and 93 people voted FOR Mags. Cant believe there are 93 working men at Wayne's Creamery reading X-Men. One reader astutelt points out that Angel has received no characterisation in the book, except in the first issue or two where he is portrayed as slightly haughty and a ladies man.

But then, the same lad liked Iceman better when he was covered in snow rather than, you know, an ICE MAN. Daft cunt. Still, his boots are back, and order is restored.

Oh and not one letter printed about issue 10, which disappointed me.

Next up, fucking Juggernaut!!! I am really pumped for this one.

bgmnts

#12: Xavier origins, fucking Juggernaut bitch!

Cerebro - the machine designed to detect mutants - starts going absolute apeshit. Xavier freaks out and has the team set up Home Alone traps around the mansion. He then tells his origins:

He was a nipper when his dad died at a nuclear test and fellow scientist Kurt Marko shacks up with his mum. He's a wanker and to make matters worse, his son Cain, is a bastard n all. Kurt dies in an explosion and reveals Xavier's mental powers with his dying breath. Xavier starts goong mental and winning all kinds of trophies with his powers; sports, running, academic stuff. This makes Cain envious as and he goes off on one.

Meanwhile, someone is just ploughing through the traps and the team are wondering who the hell it is.

Xavier takes us back to the Korean war where Cain runs away into the temple of Cyttorak, where he picks up a ruby. This ruby turns him into the JUGGERNAUT BITCH! and the temple collapses, leading us to the moment where Juggernaut breaks through every trap and is face to face with Xavier. An actually exciting, progrssing issue. However, my main complaint was why the fuck would Cerebro go apeshit when it detects mutants? Juggernaut is not a mutant - he was transformed into a human Juggernaut by the Cyttorak ruby- and so he should have just rocked up quiet as you liked and knocked on the door. Stupidly annoyed me and I hope someone got fired for that blunder.

Still, a new impressive villain that they left on a cliffhanger so I can't complain really.

Letters page: I realised they lag two issues behind derp and so this is all about issue 10 and fucking hell everyone loved it. So gutted with that but yeah land that time forgot with shitty Tarzan was a smash hit with 60s readers EXCEPT one woman who actually had studied evolution and gave a thorough smackdown and pointed out everything scientifically innacurate. Well done Marlene!

letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on May 18, 2022, 11:41:05 PMIssue 10: Ka-zaaar (i pronounce it as Rimmer pronounces Quagaars)

Some more "oh how i love him/her" thoughts from Scott and Jean; beyond that, razor thin issue. Kazar shows up on telly in the antarctica, gang find him under the ice and enter land of the lost. They fight cavemen, they go home. The end.

Kazar has a sabretooth named Zabu.

I noticed there really isnt even a basic set up and payoff in these issues, at the start of the issue Jean is putting together all parts of a rifle and needs to concentrate and does it. So you'd think there would be more danger room set ups with payoffs at the end. There are some of them and maybe I'm not paying close enough attention but considering how spelled out everything is you think they could do a better job. As of its time as these are, i'm still enjoying it all. 9 more Lee issues to go.

Letters were fine, there are a lot more women readers than I thought there would be, and they usually have the best stuff. One writes she wants a backstory to Xavier (she's in love with him) and forming the team (she is also convinced real mutants exist, another woman wrote in a similar thing before) and one woman writes that the correct term is PYSCHOKINESIS, not fucking TELEKINESIS. Owned.

One guy is pissed that Kirby's art is sloppy, they dont take it seriously and that he may be overworked, at least compared to Don Heck and Dick Ayers on the Avengers. Lee replies with "you're entitled to your bone-headed opinion!"

An AMAZING announcement from Stan concerning the letters and new character:

Unsure if they're just pure taking the piss here or at their wits end from staying up all night every night balancing all these books but that is an incredible bit.

Stan has Ka-zar fever and won't stop cramming him in other comics until you love him as much as Stan does. Daredevil gets it the worst when Ka-zar practically takes over the series for a 3 issue run.

bgmnts

Ahhhh, no wonder the letters were all strangely supportive.

letsgobrian

Quote from: bgmnts on May 19, 2022, 12:25:44 AM#11: Iceman gets his boots back.

Weird Shaw Brothers wuxia looking guy is detected on Xavier's new mutant detecting machine... The Stranger! We find him in NYC renting a room and it turns out he can do everything. He walks through a wall of a random building he is drawn to and who does he find? That's right, Magneto and his team. Magneto recruits him as per and Stranger fucks em all off, literally solidifies Mastermind and teleports himself, Mags and my boy Toad away, they get in a tizz and he cocoons them. X Men fight brotherhood as this happens and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver fuck off back to Europe bht not before saying "we COULD be back to tip the scales who knows".

Turns out Stranger is searching for mutant life across the universe and teleports Mags and Toad away again. Big result for X-Men, Xavier callously wiping away Mags, Mastermind and Toad off the Cerebro list.

However, Xavier detects an even stronger threat! Perhaps the biggest threat they've ever faced!

Letters page is a big 'well, we did it, we binned Magneto, this is what you wanted isnt it?' And the first letter is a guy saying they love Magneto and that they took a poll at his workplace and 93 people voted FOR Mags. Cant believe there are 93 working men at Wayne's Creamery reading X-Men. One reader astutelt points out that Angel has received no characterisation in the book, except in the first issue or two where he is portrayed as slightly haughty and a ladies man.

But then, the same lad liked Iceman better when he was covered in snow rather than, you know, an ICE MAN. Daft cunt. Still, his boots are back, and order is restored.

Oh and not one letter printed about issue 10, which disappointed me.

Next up, fucking Juggernaut!!! I am really pumped for this one.

I've been reading The Stranger's appearances in order on Marvel Unlimited, and Stan quickly loses track on what his deal is. If indeed he ever had one.

The Thor story with The Stranger is so messy it ends with Thor declaring that Mjolnir can reverse time and he undoes the entire comic.

bgmnts

Haha yeah that sounds like a 60s Stan Lee comic from what I've read here.

I just got the feeling he is some sort of cosmic mega being but yeah who knows what the idea is or was.

Dr Rock

How often during Lee's tenure is the Malcolm X/Martin Luther King analogy between Xavier and Magneto touched upon? Is Magneto really trying to protect mutants his way, or is he more often trying to steal a submarine or something?

bgmnts

Quote from: Dr Rock on May 19, 2022, 12:40:39 PMHow often during Lee's tenure is the Malcolm X/Martin Luther King analogy between Xavier and Magneto touched upon? Is Magneto really trying to protect mutants his way, or is he more often trying to steal a submarine or something?

Well there are around 8 issues left and nothing so far. Magneto is a one note moustache twirling mutant hell bent on subjugating homo sapiens. In fact, there is no real subtext towards the civil rights movement -other than the fact that mutants aren't universally loved -at least for me, although some people love the X-Men in universe so I don't know.  I don't think Magneto and Xavier even had a proper conversation about mutants at all but I may be not paying attention. Considering Mags has been teleported away I presume they won't ever.

I dont remember there being much about the civil right's stuff in the early Claremont run, as the team is international and multi racial, so maybe it starts with Roy Thomas, I would be interested to know where these claims come from, and the relationship between Mags and Charles as a MLK/Malcolm X dynamic. Is that just a legacy of the early 00s films?

Dr Rock

Well as I recall Stan takes credit for it in later years.