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March 28, 2024, 11:34:54 PM

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Capcom Showcase

Started by bgmnts, June 13, 2022, 11:00:43 PM

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bgmnts

Absolutely nothing new being shown here just some updates of RE4 remake and Street Fighter 6 etc.

GET HYPED NOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBVf9CgYP6g

bgmnts

Some stupid dinosaur game.

bgmnts

Some Resident Evil Village DLC. I love DLC.

Shadows of Rose, fat merchant is villain.

Oh yeah and Mercenaries and third person mode fuck yeah.

No update on Reverse, the game we all bought and didn't get to play lol

bgmnts

Nothing on RE4 remake.

RE7, 2 and 3 now have ray tracing. Cannot wait to update these to get my ray tracing.

I fucking love ray tracing!

(What is ray tracing?)

Kelvin

#4
Are Capcom the best developers/publishers bar Nintendo's AAA teams? I reckon yes. Everything they put out these days is good to great, full of content, resisting really gross microtransactions.

Mister Six

Quote from: bgmnts on June 13, 2022, 11:36:43 PMNothing on RE4 remake.

RE7, 2 and 3 now have ray tracing. Cannot wait to update these to get my ray tracing.

I fucking love ray tracing!

(What is ray tracing?)

IIRC it's where the computer accurately models shadows and reflections based on actual light sources rather than using the cheats that devs have been employing for decades (like modelling an exact copy of a room and its characters, only swapped over to the other side, instead of calculating what a mirror's reflection would actually look like).

So yeah, not that exciting until someone figures out how to make ray tracing a proper mechanic.

Pink Gregory

Do you think it might end up like that time when Doom 3 had lighting but Half Life 2 had PHYSICS! and everyone gets excited about ray tracing but something else comes along and just kind of shoots it dead in the water?

Probably not

oggyraiding

Ray tracing is the blast processing of the 21st century.

madhair60

Quote from: Kelvin on June 14, 2022, 01:08:28 AMAre Capcom the best developers/publishers bar Nintendo's AAA teams? I reckon yes. Everything they put out these days is good to great, full of content, resisting really gross microtransactions.

I would argue that "Nintendo's AAA teams" is a big enough blanket that I would happily put Capcom over them in the rankings.

They're probably not even second, not to me. But they are fucking good, don't get me wrong.

AsparagusTrevor

Ray tracing is the holy grail of real-time 3D engines, it's not just a fad, it's the future of photo-realistic graphics. Yes, the future. It's nowhere near ready for mainstream yet. It admittedly can look quite impressive, but there's currently massive caveats.

Of the three updated games I only have RE7 on the PC, so I downloaded the update this morning. Granted the dingy Baker house probably isn't the best showcase for the fancy effects, but what I did notice was my framerate drop from a previously steady 120fps in native 4K resolution down to a measly 40-50fps. Not quite a Hitman 3 level drop in performance but still quite a big hit.

I enabled the newly added FSR upscaling to claw some frames back and managed to get between 70-80fps but with the softer image quality that FSR brings I can't say it's worth the performance cost. Plus added to that, the slow pace of the game shows up the telltale ghosting of ray-tracing pretty badly.

Having said all that, I played through Doom Eternal last year, native 4K, high settings and that was hovering around 80-100 FPS with all ray-tracing bells and whistles enabled, but that engine has some kind of black magic behind it. Guardians of the Galaxy ran pretty well too, although I had to enable DLSS upscaling to get a high framerate on that.


TLDR: Nerdy PC stuff, ray tracing isn't ready yet

oggyraiding

Playing Resi 2 with ray tracing on Series X, frame rate suffers. It's perfectly playable, but the enhancement of the graphics is not really noticeable, so I'd rather go with 60FPS and slightly less fancy lighting.

Mister Six

Mate of mine showed me the ray-tracing on his PS5 Spider-Man game. Zoomed in to show the realistic reflections of buildings on Spider-Man's goggles. I tried to make impreessed noises, but all I could think was "So how does this make the game better?"

Like, it's nice to be able to see reflections in windows as you swing past them, but you're focusing on Spider-Man, not the buildings, and you'll forget about it soon enough anyway.

Quote from: AsparagusTrevor on June 14, 2022, 12:40:35 PMRay tracing is the holy grail of real-time 3D engines, it's not just a fad, it's the future of photo-realistic graphics. Yes, the future.

Aye, but who gives a fuck, like? I could maybe see some application in VR or something, but "realistic" graphics are always bolted onto shite AAA dirge, and aren't a replacement for proper art direction. Use that processing power for something weird and interesting with cartoony graphics - a Psychonauts-type reality-bending world, say - and I'll pay attention.

But we both know that the "realism" is going to amount to plodding about ultra-detailed office blocks, shooting samey terrorists until your brains dribble out of your ears.

Crenners


Ahhhh but how does colour make television BETTER THOUGH


They should be using all that dev time and the billions of dollars on making NEW GENRES instead of SHINIES.

DAE PROPER art direction 😊😊😊

I don't know about you but I want a lickle thing called GAMEPLAY over brown space marines and shoot mans


I Remember 2👀5

Fair enough, but he's still right, just as right as he was in 2005, goddammit! :D

Crenners

#14
He's actually not right because the best use of RT on the PS5 is on some cartoon cunt gamer gameplay game. I don't object to the opinion as much as the blustery ignorance.

Oh right, what games that?
The whole point of ray tracing is to give a game more realistic lighting though, regardless if the games going for a realistic look or not, so I still think he's got a point.

This is the best looking game so far this year, and it doesn't use ray tracing.
That power is instead being spent to render two bunny rabbits in dresses.


Mister Six

Quote from: Crenners on June 14, 2022, 08:32:09 PMHe's actually not right because the best use of RT on the PS5 is on some cartoon cunt gamer gameplay game. I don't object to the opinion as much as the blustery ignorance.

How does that make me "not right"? Read what I wrote, not what you thought I wrote, you wally.

Crenners

#17
Quote from: Mister Six on June 14, 2022, 09:26:44 PMHow does that make me "not right"? Read what I wrote, not what you thought I wrote, you wally.

You said:

"realistic" graphics are always bolted onto shite AAA dirge, and aren't a replacement for proper art direction. Use that processing power for something weird and interesting with cartoony graphics - a Psychonauts-type reality-bending world, say - and I'll pay attention."

But reality:

Ratchet and Clank is widely regarded as the best use of RT on the PS5.


As I say, I don't object to your preference for gameplay developments over incremental graphical upgrades because I prioritise the same, but the wilful Luddism makes me roll my eyes. You can have both cutting edge graphics and a great game - in fact, technical advancement has been the bedrock of games development since games began. Your post was the equivalent of 'no truly great music has been made since I left high school'.

For the record, my most played game this year is Ketsui, which came out in 2003.

Mister Six

Realistic graphics, according to @Crenners -



Do you live in a furry commune or something?

I've gone from "This doesn't feel right. The vibe is wrong. We shouldn't be arguing about ray tracing", to typing this long post out. I can only apologize.

Quote from: Crenners on June 14, 2022, 09:41:12 PMwilful Luddism

A game doesn't exist for you unless it gets a console release, so I wouldn't be chucking that accusation about too freely, muhfellamelad, smiley face!

Quote from: Crenners on June 14, 2022, 09:41:12 PMYou can have both cutting edge graphics and a great game

Can a game be a huge budget, all the bells and whistles affair, made by a large team, published on all platforms with an enormous advertising budget and still be a great game?
Technically yes, but the reality is that these games have to be a dead cert. That sort of money doesn't get chucked about blindly.

The people pumping money into those sorts of games need a guaranteed return.
That means flare is punished. Not necessarily innovation, just any sort of wildness in creativity. Any sort of wayward vision. You have to play it very safe and more or less give people what they want, which is always the same again, bigger, prettier.
I mean Crysis is the only game that springs to mind when you say that, and that was a great game despite the whole "oh, you have to turn all the settings right down because your computer isn't from ten years in the future?" marketing stunt for their engine.

The greatest game ever created, spelunky, would never have been made if that was the only model available.

Quote from: Crenners on June 14, 2022, 09:41:12 PMtechnical advancement has been the bedrock of games development since games began

It's true, but I think we're so far into diminishing returns now that the insistence on using the latest tech is actually of a huge detriment to gaming.
We'll get out the other end eventually, but it feels like we're currently in the early days of CGI and everyone's excited to use it even though it's nowhere near ready and clearly not the right choice.

There are so many games that will just default to 3rd person, showing off the models, low fov so you can see all the detail, keep the player gawping and immersed, all the bells and whistles on, when the gameplay would benefit hugely from having a top down camera, or the entire game being made in 2D.
People actually preorder games on the strength of a cinematic trailer nowadays. That says it all to me.

People are getting exactly what they want. AAA is to gaming what marvel is to the film industry. People seem to have a huge blindspot where gaming is concerned. They'll gladly call out "shit for cunts" in any other medium, but they'll happily queue up with spoons in hand when the latest open world souls-like flies up the charts.

That wasn't about ray tracing, was it?

Mister Six

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on June 15, 2022, 01:54:07 AMIt's true, but I think we're so far into diminishing returns now that the insistence on using the latest tech is actually of a huge detriment to gaming.

Which is why the "ooh what does colour bring to television?" thing was bollocks. At least on present showing, ray tracing is an incremental graphical improvement rather than the kind of technological leap implied by the colour telly comparison.

I look forward to it being used for truly thrilling gameplay, but the workarounds for ray tracing were already so good that replacing fake shadows with actual shadows and faux reflections with actual reflections, while an obvious improvement, isn't the astonishing technological leap that the PS1-era move to 3D was, or the PS2 jump to semi-realistic characters, or even the PS3 skip to HD.

I've seen these PS5 games in 4K 60fps, and they look really nice, but it's not the jaw-dropping experience that MGS1 was on PS1, where everything felt truly cinematic in a way that SNES and Mega Drive games could never, ever achieve.

Crenners

No offence, but you're each bending the topic to what you want to talk about and you're inevitably going in different directions. Let's just say I respect your preferences and parameters of what you think is 'good gaming' and leave it at that. We've had those conversations before and I'm not debating taste.

Simply, I was taking the piss out of Mister Six for sounding like a grumpy old man. Of course, it's low-hanging fruit on this forum but when he said that the tech is only used on 'realistic' graphics and that the processing power would be better used on something 'cartoony' and 'mind-bending', I could not resist pointing out the irony: This curmudgeonly claim is quite beautifully skewered by the SSD-fuelled, ray-traced, dimension-shifting, Pixar-inspired technical marvel, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.

Next time, I will just press Back. It's not important.

madhair60

ray tracing isn't really something that I generally notice moment-to-moment, but that isn't really the point. the update to Resi 2 Remake looks an order of magnitude better than the original version and a large part of that is due to ray-traced lighting making the dark areas actually dark.

I'm probably the most luddite gamer on here, big into retro and all that shit, but I gave up on the hardline "gameplay over graphics" mode a long time ago because the fact is that visuals are more important than people make them out to be. The problem is when graphics are doing their job right you basically don't notice them, there's no obstacle between the player and the game.

Sorry everyone, I got a bit carried away there last night. Long waffling load of old bollocks.

Graphics are really important, yeah, and you're right, it's something that you sometimes only notice subconsciously.
I'm more than happy to play something mechanically excellent that looks like dogs vomit, but if I play a game afterwards that looks gorgeous and really draws me into it's world, I really notice what was missing in that other game and play it less because of it, but like Mister Six said, for the games I tend to play anyway, it's more important to have a good consistent artstyle than realistic lighting.

Black Bird is great for that. Really sucks you in. I used to fire it up just to spend more time with the cute eggmen!



The "outside" doujin games as well. Pictures and video doesn't really do them justice. Everything is so cute and bright, it really feels like your inside this dream world.

Mister Six

#24
Quote from: Crenners on June 15, 2022, 05:44:22 AMwhen he said that the tech is only used on 'realistic' graphics

I didn't say that.

Again, read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

Wally.

EDIT: All right, because he'll never figure it out by himself, I'll explain. AsparagusTrevor said ray tracing is the future of photorealistic graphics. I said that photorealistic graphics only get used on AAA titles that are dull and unimaginative - your CoDs and all that.

This is not, you (assuming you are not Crenners) will notice, the same as saying that all AAA graphics are realistic.

I also said that weird and interesting graphics with unique art direction would be preferable to photorealistic graphics, something that is in no way challenged by pointing to PS5 Ratchet & Clank, which does not have photorealistic graphics at all (although based on what I've seen on YouTube the art direction is pretty generic).

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I'm sure ray tracing is really exciting, if your telly cost more than your car. I watched (the animated thumbnail on) a comparison video for Doom Eternal and I couldn't see a significant difference.

When are they going to do all the big fancy physics stuff they've been talking about?

Crenners

Quote from: Mister Six on June 15, 2022, 02:10:10 PMI didn't say that.

Again, read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

Wally.

EDIT: All right, because he'll never figure it out by himself, I'll explain. AsparagusTrevor said ray tracing is the future of photorealistic graphics. I said that photorealistic graphics only get used on AAA titles that are dull and unimaginative - your CoDs and all that.

This is not, you (assuming you are not Crenners) will notice, the same as saying that all AAA graphics are realistic.

I also said that weird and interesting graphics with unique art direction would be preferable to photorealistic graphics, something that is in no way challenged by pointing to PS5 Ratchet & Clank, which does not have photorealistic graphics at all (although based on what I've seen on YouTube the art direction is pretty generic).

Thanks for explaining what you meant, appreciated

Pink Gregory

It feels to me like one of those things that's going to be rattling around in the enthusiast space for years because it's somewhat limited by consumer hardware/development resources, and by the time it's mainstream it won't be that remarked upon.  Not complaining, I like lighting, with good art direction it could be transformative.

I'd probably eat my words if I saw it, but I'm unlikely to do so.

Mister Six

I will admit that ray-traced, hyperrealistic worlds/lighting would be cool in something like Kojima's cancelled Silent Hills, where seemingly real and naturalistic environs go all fucky due to tinkering by spooky ghosts. But I've still not seen anything yet to convince me that it's worth blowing $500 on (plus however much for a 4K TV), when I've still got a heaping pile of uncompleted PS4 (and PS3-era) games.

Crenners

RT is actually most impressive in realistic conditions because it's an attempt to replicate how light impacts on the environment - in reality. In stuff like R&C or Spiderman or anything unnaturally shiny and reflective purely to show off RT reflections, it's actually less impressive because your brain can't contextualise that. It's best in fairly mundane conditions because basic unremarkable shit becomes mesmerising in its verisimilitude. In conjunction with HDR on a 4K OLED screen, this is the biggest jump since HD for me.

Boring overcast races in Gran Turismo 7 are vastly more impressive than blinding sunsets because the light is so nuanced and you have a kind of subconscious recognition of reality. It's wholly down to the lighting because the texture fidelity boost is pretty negligible. Death Stranding on PC is stunning with RT because the environments already have such a strong 'recognisable' sense of place and the way light bounces and reflects is almost unnerving.

Probably a console generation away still but when we get 4K 60 HDR RT as standard, as you can on a scalper tier PC, it will feel like a technical leap after so many years of diminishing increments.