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Capcom Showcase

Started by bgmnts, June 13, 2022, 11:00:43 PM

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It's endearing that you still get excited about such things, but I can't see the appeal at all. I think playing my friends amiga when I was 11 or something was the last time I got frothy over graphics.

Maybe gaming on pc makes me eye all these new fangled graphical frills with suspicion.
You can turn different things on an off and instantly tell which ones are clogging the rendering pipeline. Which ones are adding a ton of input lag and which ones are halving your framerate, and if you're playing the sorts of games I do, then you'd decide that an ultra responsive high framerate trumps everything.
I was big into multiplayer fps back then, so it was a total no brainer.

Maybe if I got a new graphics card and was playing some really well optimised fps, I'd turn it on, just to see what the damage was, and if it was worth it, but if my framerate dropped below 100 and it added any sort of input lag it'd be going straight off.

I don't understand the appeal of 4k neither. 1080p is more than enough and takes way less processing power.
Sometimes I think these console and telly manufacturers are all in cahoots with each other.

If you check the latest steam survey, only 2.57% are running 4k on pc.

I pretty much just play shmups anyway, I don't have a dog in this race at all. I'm sure everything's gonna look smashing in the future though.

Crenners

It's less excitement than observation. If you haven't been interested in graphical upgrades since 1991, that puts you in an infinitesimal minority for a medium which you agree has always been driven by technical advancement. That's absolutely fine, it says nothing negative about you, but games are inherently a visual medium and Graphics have been discussed as a metric for fifty years.

As for 4K and so on, it's again less about personal preference or contextual choice than the isolated reality of what is technically better. 4K is better than 1080p. 120fps is better than 60fps. HDR is better than SDR. FLAC is better than mp3, etc, etc. That said, I would always choose framerate over resolution, as you said, for the reasons you said. Limits on processing power don't change the fact that 4K is a sharper, more detailed image, though, and that HDR has a wider range of colours and light intensity than SDR. Overall most important, I would say, is an OLED screen. Even the Switch still looks great on that and plenty of the games struggle to hit 900fps.

Again, this isn't about my personal taste or what I generally play (99% M2 ports, Sifu and Elden Ring since Jan), it's just my observations and experience of RT so far this generation.

I've made the parallel before but listening to my favourite music is separate to listening to 'the best headphones'.

Crenners

Quote from: Crenners on June 15, 2022, 10:46:56 PMplenty of the games struggle to hit 900fps.

Haha, I meant 900p but I like the idea of the Switch running at 900fps. Maybe the Switch 2...

druss

Apparently Elden Ring will have ray tracing in a future patch. Will this make it look anywhere near as good as the Demon's Souls remake?

Crenners

Quote from: druss on June 16, 2022, 07:17:14 AMApparently Elden Ring will have ray tracing in a future patch. Will this make it look anywhere near as good as the Demon's Souls remake?

Not possible because open world vs corridors and dungeons. Also, Bluepoint are leagues ahead of FROM in terms of technical prowess.

Elden Ring is a PS4 game in terms of textures and so on. I think it looks gorgeous from an artistic direction perspective etc but it will always look a generation behind the Demon's Remake.

I'd sooner they get it to properly run at 60fps before going harder on the graphical upgrades. It's just not their forte.

Quote from: Crenners on June 15, 2022, 10:46:56 PMIf you haven't been interested in graphical upgrades since 1991, that puts you in an infinitesimal minority for a medium which you agree has always been driven by technical advancement.

I dunno. For every gaming forum wally buying all the latest tech and frothing over the next generation of consoles, or upgrading their pc hardware every 6 months, cooing over the graphics in the trailers for the latest big games, I reckon there's a hundred people like me who just aren't interested, people playing mobile games, people playing some free to play shooter or mmo in an internet cafe, what's that thing you used to see getting trotted out "playstation 1 is still the best selling console in Brazil" or something? Don't know how true that was ten year ago nevermind today, but it supports my argument :D
The steam survey always shows that the majority of folk are using very modest hardware.

It's great that people are constantly trying to push things forward in various mediums, but I don't think most people are too interested in keeping up with the latest bleeding edge stuff.

Quote from: Crenners on June 15, 2022, 10:46:56 PMAgain, this isn't about my personal taste or what I generally play (99% M2 ports, Sifu and Elden Ring since Jan), it's just my observations and experience of RT so far this generation.

Yeah, I get that, if they've included raytracing as an option in some of the games on the new consoles, and it's just a toggle switch, you'd have to try it out.

Pink Gregory

It's more useful than that advanced hair tech thing that's for sure

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Pink Gregory on June 16, 2022, 02:01:41 PMIt's more useful than that advanced hair tech thing that's for sure
Certainly for most blokes on CaB.

druss

Quote from: Crenners on June 16, 2022, 08:09:50 AMNot possible because open world vs corridors and dungeons. Also, Bluepoint are leagues ahead of FROM in terms of technical prowess.

Elden Ring is a PS4 game in terms of textures and so on. I think it looks gorgeous from an artistic direction perspective etc but it will always look a generation behind the Demon's Remake.

I'd sooner they get it to properly run at 60fps before going harder on the graphical upgrades. It's just not their forte.
I thought this was probably the case. I don't really know what difference ray tracing would make but it would be nice for it to look a bit more PS5 gen.

Mister Six

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on June 16, 2022, 11:28:39 AMwhat's that thing you used to see getting trotted out "playstation 1 is still the best selling console in Brazil" or something? Don't know how true that was ten year ago nevermind today, but it supports my argument :D
The steam survey always shows that the majority of folk are using very modest hardware.

The best-selling console of 2020 and 2021 was the Switch. Granted, the PS5 (and Xbox?) had supply issues, but clearly bigger pixels/worse lighting/fewer polygons/whatever aren't a huge impediment to success in the eyes of a great many people.

It's why stuff like this -

Quote from: Crenners on June 15, 2022, 10:46:56 PMAs for 4K and so on, it's again less about personal preference or contextual choice than the isolated reality of what is technically better. 4K is better than 1080p. 120fps is better than 60fps. HDR is better than SDR. FLAC is better than mp3, etc, etc.

- doesn't really carry much weight with me. Technically, IMAX cameras take in more visual information than 16mm, but I'd still rather watch Moonrise Kingdom or Evil Dead or The Station Agent than Batman V Superman. Technically, recording equipment now is far more advanced it was in 1988 but I don't know how you could possibly improve on Pixies' Dolittle. Technically, the 60fps 3D film Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey is "better" than the 24fps, 2D Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring, but I think it looks like dog shit.

I know Crenners acknowledges personal taste, but my point is that objective technological improvements are irrelevant if the applications are underwhelming, and so my position of "ray tracing - so what?" is less wilful Ludditism and more an abiding distrust in game producers that have access to top-notch engines and talent to use it for worthwhile causes.

There's nothing wrong with getting excited about the possibilities of ray tracing and whatever other graphical stuff is emerging on this latest generation of PCs and consoles or any of that, but it's always the application that matters, and until everyone has the capacity to produce games with AAA-quality visuals (maybe once procedural generation gets good enough to produce automatically animated characters, or plausible game worlds), I'm not going to get excited about it, because they're mostly going to be put to quite mundane use. And I say this as someone who has heartily enjoyed AAA games like Horizon, Spider-Man and The Last of Us.

Pink Gregory

Thing is, if there's not a way of incorporating it into development in a sustainable or low cost way, then you're never going to see it outside of enthusiast spaces anyway because that's when we're getting into the already established games costing £70 on a £400+ console or video card area.

Crenners

The film comparison isn't an apt example because a 4K telly just allows you to present more detail from the original film. An OLED HDR telly allows you to present more of the depth of light and colour from the original film. It's about output rather than creation tools.

The best looking 4K Blu-rays are catalogue movies like Jaws and Dawn of the Dead and Suspiria, all the Arrow Argento stuff or RoboCop and American Werewolf, Cinema Paradiso, where the restoration and presentation brings out as much of the original analogue recording as possible. It's not about modern filming methods, it's about getting as close as possible to the original 35 or 70mm for me. Same with audio gear. Doolittle sounds a shitload better on, for example, planar magnetic headphones than it does through Beats, for example.

All that said, I completely agree with the point that application is absolutely the key, not raw processing power, and that's why my most played console this and last generation remains the Switch by thousands of hours. I am one hundred percent gameplay uber alles.

On the other hand, I'm also very open to the potential and learning curve of technical advancement and I find it a fundamentally interesting element of games media. I accept that puts me in a niche group, in fact. I had meant most are interested in graphics, referring to the kind of cunts who talk about games like this but grand scheme, I totally agree. My technical interest is niche.

My actual gameplay interest runs the full spectrum of Japanese bullet hell all the way to multi-million selling Souls sequels, albeit with literally nothing in between at this moment in time.

C_Larence

How did none of you mention there's a Dragon's Dogma sequel coming out!!! One of the best games of its generation! I hope it has ray tracing.

bgmnts

So I have tried both the new updated Resi Evils and they just look the same to me I think. Just an extra 50gb on my internal storage now that means I cant put in anymore optimized games, boo.