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March 28, 2024, 02:00:52 PM

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Shane Meadows appreciation

Started by Magnum Valentino, July 29, 2022, 11:02:37 PM

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Magnum Valentino

I'm jumping the gun a wee bit here as I'm working my way through watching Shane's stuff again for the first time in years and I've not finished yet. No patience but, no discipline. Onto CaB.

I think Shane Meadows is one of the very best to ever do it. I watched A Room For Romeo Brass on a whim recently after seeing Paddy Considine in The World's End (in which he is excellent but detached in a way he sometimes is since returning to acting from self-imposed exile, and which I appreciate might be a way of keeping him able to work at all) and it's one of my favourite films ever made.

Meadows' gift - and I don't like using words like that - is his ability to capture and present truth. What happens in Romeo Brass is fiction but it's fucking REAL. The performances, the notions, subtleties and nuances, everything that happens is a construction that nonetheless gives you something that most works of fiction don't. I had tears in my eyes just knowing that the dynamics of that film will play out for so many young boys, so many families, have done and will again. It hurt me to confront the truth of it. There's a couple of scenes in it that felt intimately familiar to me when it comes to degrees of human interaction that it feels like should be impossible for someone else to have experienced and successfully recreated in a film. M feelings, my memories, granular internal unknowable feelings. That's in his third feature, like. Unreal.

It's also funny as fuck and nicely shot and brilliantly paced and hasn't a moment I'd see cut out of it. Romeo Brass is the one, but there are others.

Once Upon A Time In The Midlands isn't one of them. Correctly savaged as 'the bad one', it appears from what I've been reading, watching and listening to that he let a number of accolades go to his head and took a sizeable budget and cast as a safety net resulting in a film that doesn't hang together at all despite a number of moments worth seeing it for (and time Rhys Ifans and Finn Atkins are onscreen together, or Kathy Burke's bust up with an unusually dreadful Robert Carlyle). I was astonished to learn Considine had actually been cast and was involved in rehearsals before backing out, which says a lot, especially considering they reconvened immediately afterwords for Dead Man's Shoes. There's an honesty there about what his trusted collaborator thought about that film that speaks volumes.

Dead Man's Shoes. Rough going. I get the impression from its reputation and those people I know who've talked about it in the past that it's a bit misunderstood, and anyone who's cheering Richard on from the start right through to the conclusion is maybe looking at it the wrong way, but it's thrilling to watch Paddy simmer having seen a completely different presentation of psychopathy in Romeo Brass. Everyone's great in this and it's to Shane's enormous credit that he's able to make the gang of absolutely abhorrent cunts quite likeable at times, as well as going some distance to make Richard into a cunt by the end of the film as well. Will live forever for the genuinely iconic "mooching about" confrontation scene alone but for me the real standout is this, which, again, isn't acting, it's fucking truth. Sorry to harp on about it but I've rarely been so convinced by fiction as I am during these films (44:48 as I can't embed with timestamps - not surprisingly no cunt has isolate THIS scene to Youtube!)


I watched Le Donk and Scor-Zay-Zee last night which is an interesting experiment that the trailer boasts as 'the first ever five-day feature'. It's more of an extended DVD extra, like a sketch character put through a writing exercise, but Considine is SO FUNNY in it that he carries it off. He's also unforgivably wretched at points, as well as being completely forgivably repentant. An incredible performer. The story about his plan when he finds out his girlfriend is pregnant is both horrific and laugh out loud funny, which isn't material many could make work. An overlooked Meadows outing but I'd recommend it.

Somers Town I've actually seen the most often so I've a better recollection of it as a Romeo Brass-like portrayal of a sweet friendship, and unless I'm misremembering it, a film almost completely devoid of darkness. There's the suggestion that it might go down an alley regarding Perry Benson's motivations but it never occurs. Unconscious bias maybe (sorry to Perry Benson!).

So I've yet to do that, the whole This Is England saga which I never finished (88 was my limit back when I was too depressed to shoulder this sort of stuff as, AGAIN, THEME OF THE OP, IT'S TOO MUCH LIKE REALITY!), Twenty Four Seven which is up next and the shorts and Small Time. Oh fuck and The Virtues which came out around about the time he opened up about his own experience of abuse which is not completely shocking as it's impossible to miss how he was working through something during some of his earlier work.

I'll be doing DVDs extras for everything I can get my hands on - criminally more than half of Shane's stuff is unavailable in HD and those that are lack the DVD features that shed valuable light on his approach and offer the opportunity to listen to him speak genially about his work and experience. His commentary tracks are always excellent.

Please share thoughts and opinions about the great man, his work and his collaborators.

madhair60

now i'm the fuckin beast.

think Meadows is brilliant.

Magnum Valentino


madhair60

as i'm sure you know, it's interesting you call Le Donk an extended DVD extra because I first encountered that character in Shane's World, which is... a DVD extra on Midlands, and worth owning the DVD for.

Dead Man's Shoes is brilliant but as someone with a severely autistic brother it is almost unbearably painful to watch.

imitationleather

I'm crap at talking about stuff but I think all of his films are varying degrees of excellent. Would say A Room for Romeo Brass is his masterpiece. Could watch that over and over.

I saw Dead Man's Shoes with a live orchestra and that was ace. But no-one needs to be putting themselves through that film too many times.

Felt at the time like This is England was him getting all the other films together and bringing them into something perfect, but I reckon I'd cringe hard if I watched that now. Really feel now like the This is England TV series are absolute pony and devalues all that came before. It's a remake of Skins but in the '80s and made by cunts who don't understand what made that show acceptable within the narrow circumstances it was alright by.

Everything up to, say, Somers Town, is great.

Twit 2

Nice OP.

Twenty Four Seven is a wonderful film he's been remaking since, pretty much. Love it.

Dead Man's Shoes is a masterpiece.

ARFRB is also great.

Those are my 3 faves.

TIE is ok but a bit Meadows by numbers at that point. Haven't seen OUATINM, Somerstown or Le Donk. No interest in seeing TIE series. Loved that TV thing with alky Stephen Graham heading back to Mickland. Ace.

imitationleather

It's got to be said that all of the films have basically the same ending.

Except for Dead Man's Shoes. Which is a bit of an anomaly in the overall mood through-out.

thugler

He's great but feel like he repeats himself too much. The humour and likeable characters that feel so truthful and then something horrible always has to happen. Feels like he probably has some trauma of his own in his life so he likes to show characters dealing with it and over coming it.

Nothing wrong with that but always find myself bracing for the badness to happen.

sevendaughters

It's probably a bit teenage to approach it like this but for a while he was the best living British director (making British films, rather than a British exile). No one has ever really held that role, to my mind, for longer than a decade. But to get Dead Man's Shoes and This is England back-to-back, films that just burn with a rare combination of political and personal rage, is a lifetime achievement and his legacy was sealed there and then.

Room for Romeo Brass is good - a little bit slight, I'd argue - and it is uncanny how Considine's voice anticipates Tyson Fury here. I love that it's Bob Mortimer's favourite film and it sort of suggests that he recognises that strange childworld where pissing about memorytape can be shot through with being predated upon by charismatic psychopaths. Certainly felt real to me.

The rest of his films I'm not bothered about, if we're going to be honest, but that's okay because his television work nearly touches the heights of his great films. I was really sceptical about TIE but I think it genuinely does what Godfather 2 does - take this initially compelling world and make it emotionally richer. Some of that comes through knockabout comedy and some of it comes through prolonged agony; the Milky and Woody scrap is just so hard to watch.

I also thought The Virtues was just a huge raw wound opened up and stuck on telly. The parallel story of the woman and her mother was possibly a bit rushed, but the main story was brilliant. Mercy. What a wild concept. I don't think I'll ever be able to watch the scene in the pub in episode one again.

It kind of sucks that he has made these contributions to TV in the era of telly as content rather than telly as art because I feel like they're already being forgotten or passed over in favour of some flavour du jour.

Twit 2

Quote from: thugler on July 30, 2022, 12:04:20 PMHe's great but feel like he repeats himself too much. The humour and likeable characters that feel so truthful and then something horrible always has to happen. Feels like he probably has some trauma of his own in his life so he likes to show characters dealing with it and over coming it.

Nothing wrong with that but always find myself bracing for the badness to happen.

Yeah, he opened up about his own trauma in a guardian article when the virtues came out.

jobotic

I turned off The Virtues during the pub scene as I just wasn't in the right frame of mind to deal with watching it.

Never tried again, I really should.

Brundle-Fly

This Is England, the film is my favourite SM. It was the first time I'd seen my teenage years done convincingly on screen, capturing the era perfectly and not depicting all skinheads as racist thugs or in the closet.

Magnum Valentino

Just spotted forum fave James Corden in Twentyfourseven, albeit back when James Corden was quite good and usually a treat in whatever he appeared in.

holyzombiejesus

He's recently been filming an adaptation of Ben Myers' The Gallows Pole near where I live. Think it's his first film/ series not set in the last 40-odd years so it'll be interesting to see if he tries to keep it authentic or if he's still going to have Thomas Turgoose calling people a nobhead or whatever. Also, "for the BBC in association with A24".

the science eel

Quote from: sevendaughters on July 30, 2022, 12:44:19 PMRoom for Romeo Brass is good - a little bit slight, I'd argue - and it is uncanny how Considine's voice anticipates Tyson Fury here. I love that it's Bob Mortimer's favourite film and it sort of suggests that he recognises that strange childworld where pissing about memorytape can be shot through with being predated upon by charismatic psychopaths. Certainly felt real to me.

oh really? that's interesting...but not altogether surprising. I need to see it again (it's Dead Man's Shoes they keep showing on the telly).

Paddy Considine is fucking A, I love the man. He was in some Polish director's (UK) debut, I think - that was the first I saw of him, and he was gripping.

Magnum Valentino

Bob on Brass:


He's talked about it in other places too. He also said that Better Call Saul was the finest piece of art ever made more than once on Mince.

Really enjoyed Twentyfourseven even if seeing soap actors in 'real' drama is always very distracting. Commentary is next then onto The Virtues as I don't think I should finish with it.

sevendaughters

Meadows doing Gallows Pole is interesting!


buzby

Quote from: the science eel on August 02, 2022, 04:57:43 PMPaddy Considine is fucking A, I love the man. He was in some Polish director's (UK) debut, I think - that was the first I saw of him, and he was gripping.
Sort of Meadows-adjecent, but Considine's directorial debut Tyrannosaur is obviously indebted to his work with Meadows, and is similarly powerful and harrowing as Meadows at his best.

Like sevendaughters, the Dead Man's Shoes-This Is England is Meadows at his peak for me. I think the This Is England TV series are just as good, too - the film was loosely based on his own childhood experiences, and he ovbiously felt there was more he wanted to reflect on there. They were worth it alone to see Stephen Graham expand on Combo as a character
Spoiler alert
and portray his repentance and atonement, climaxing in him taking the blame for Lol's murder of her abusive father.
[close]

Speaking of Graham obviously leads to The Virtues, which absolutely floored me. Again, based on Meadows exploring and reconciling with his past, which is where his best stuff seems to come from.

Johnboy

Love Meadows stuff.

I´ve a lot of time for TIE the Tv series, thought it was very accurate, believeable.

non capisco

Combo's fate in the TV series still gives me the right wiggins if I think about it. Up there with the stoning scene in The Leftovers for disturbing TV drama.

Although it was leavened by someone on here in the thread at the time saying "I believe they were going to tickle him to death."

Artie Fufkin

Quote from: sevendaughters on August 02, 2022, 07:55:42 PMMeadows doing Gallows Pole is interesting!
Seconded.
Love SM. Think Room is my fave
Spoiler alert
the hammer scene - jeeze
[close]
I remember a short about wrestling?

Quote from: Artie Fufkin on August 03, 2022, 01:13:17 PMSeconded.
Love SM. Think Room is my fave
Spoiler alert
the hammer scene - jeeze
[close]
I remember a short about wrestling?
Great little short film.  It's called "Northern Soul" and it's an extra on the Dead Man's Shoes DVD (I think).

sevendaughters

btw Romeo Brass is on youtube for nowt if you're stuck for summat to watch at home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TywqhN8v4HI

Joe Qunt

Paddy Considine set to star as Gerry Adams in an upcoming drama about the GFA.

Magnum Valentino

Quote from: Dave The Triffids on August 03, 2022, 03:13:24 PMGreat little short film.  It's called "Northern Soul" and it's an extra on the Dead Man's Shoes DVD (I think).

It is, not on the Blu-ray though. Stars Anthony from DMS and Shaun's Mum from This is England, who I'll probably think of as "Shaun's Mum" forever. She's a brilliant actress, I could watch her in anything.

madhair60


iamcoop

Fucking buzzing for his Gallows Pole adaptation. I thought the novel, for all its many faults was absolutely fantastic and I couldn't really think of anyone more perfectly suited to doing it. (Although maybe Ben Wheatley could have a good stab at it).

I'm interested to see who's cast as when I read the book, in my mind I couldn't help but picture David Hartley as essentially being a Yorkshire version of Ralph Ineson's character in The VVitch. This is so burnt into my brain that it'll be weird seeing anyone else do it to be honest.

I also agree Dead Man's Shoes is a masterpiece.

One thing that always puzzled me about it was the car. The green and white 2CV that Sonny and his gang go around in. It always felt like a bit of welcome light relief in a film that is otherwise quite relentlessly bleak, but it also felt really tonally incongruous. The gang are only small-time gangsters and dealers, but they are also meant to be genuinely hard and evil men, Sonny in particular. They're dangerous. So why are they shown travelling around in this stupid car?

But it's really obvious, isn't it. Richard knows that his training and abilities as a paratrooper put him so far ahead of them in what they perceive as the fight between them and him, that they can't be taken seriously. They're a joke to him. In the scene where they spot him in the street and pull up in it, and he laughs in Sonny's face, he just sees clowns. It's a clown car.

Artie Fufkin

Quote from: iamcoop on August 04, 2022, 12:58:49 AMFucking buzzing for his Gallows Pole adaptation. I thought the novel, for all its many faults was absolutely fantastic and I couldn't really think of anyone more perfectly suited to doing it. (Although maybe Ben Wheatley could have a good stab at it).

I'm interested to see who's cast as when I read the book, in my mind I couldn't help but picture David Hartley as essentially being a Yorkshire version of Ralph Ineson's character in The VVitch. This is so burnt into my brain that it'll be weird seeing anyone else do it to be honest.
Steve Oram!