Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => General Bullshit => Topic started by: Cursus on October 12, 2020, 09:49:13 AM

Title: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Cursus on October 12, 2020, 09:49:13 AM
Government sparks anger with ad campaign suggesting ballet dancer 'rethink' and 'reboot' job (https://www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/government-sparks-anger-ballet-campaign_52570.html)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkHYiBGWkAAN0on?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Captain Z on October 12, 2020, 09:58:18 AM
Like it's that fucking easy. Can barely get a job in the industry I'm skilled and experienced in.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Butchers Blind on October 12, 2020, 09:59:59 AM
So, are they saying Fatima should set up an OnlyFans account and get busy with the adult content?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Better Midlands on October 12, 2020, 10:01:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7FpM7Uk.jpg)

Thanks for the info.

Like it's that fucking easy. Can barely get a job in the industry I'm skilled and experienced in.

Won't many of the entry level jobs start to be outsourced to workers in cheaper countries now that companies have got comfortable with people working out of the office anyway?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 10:02:35 AM
I'd love a job in cyber, me.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: idunnosomename on October 12, 2020, 10:06:02 AM
Are people laughing at this because "to cyber" used to mean awkward roleplay "cybersex" in chat apps or does no one say that anymore
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 10:07:18 AM
Are people laughing at this because "to cyber" used to mean awkward roleplay "cybersex" in chat apps or does no one say that anymore

I had forgotten that that was a thing! I found it funny because "a job in cyber" is laughable nonsense on the level of "I call app Britain".
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Pingers on October 12, 2020, 10:07:51 AM
When your peers get to be Chancellor of the Exchequer or edit a newspaper without having any relevant experience, just because they went to the right school, it must all seem so easy.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
From the What's On Stage article:

Quote
LRNPage @ Spoopy Season
@LRNPage
#SaveTheArts I'm not seeing nearly enough people on art twitter talk about this! This ad has popped up on our gov website shortly after Rishi Sunak swore blind he didn't suggest artists retrain into other jobs... If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

I hate this person because of "spoopy" and "art twitter".
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 12, 2020, 10:12:33 AM
Updated to reflect latest claimant figures release:

(https://i.imgur.com/wOphqvF.jpg)

Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: buzby on October 12, 2020, 10:16:36 AM
I had forgotten that that was a thing! I found it funny because "a job in cyber" is laughable nonsense on the level of "I call app Britain".
Our IT network security team calls themselves the 'Cyber Team', which means I can't anything they say remotely seriously.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 10:18:37 AM
Our IT network security team calls themselves the 'Cyber Team', which means I can't anything they say remotely seriously.

You could forgive an author in the 80s or 90s talking about how one day your grandchildren could have cyber jobs. But fuck me.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 12, 2020, 10:19:58 AM
Our IT network security team calls themselves the 'Cyber Team', which means I can't anything they say remotely seriously.

Do they use the godawful us 'infosec' terminology that makes them sound like they're playing laser quest. Blue/red teams etc?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Bernice on October 12, 2020, 10:29:25 AM
The cumdog gets all his policy inspiration from an old vhs of Johnny Mnemonic.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: bgmnts on October 12, 2020, 10:32:26 AM
STEM STEM WE NE NEED STEM

What about the cultural, emotional and spiritual development of our species using art and play?

FUCK THAT WE NEED TO QUANTIFY EXISTENCE THROUGH THE METRICS OF STEM.

STEEEEM
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Blumf on October 12, 2020, 10:39:48 AM
'Learn to code' is the 21st century equivalent of 'Let them eat cake'
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Glebe on October 12, 2020, 10:41:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Icfu0ZE.gif)

"I should have become a ballerina while I had the chance!"
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Cuellar on October 12, 2020, 10:57:17 AM
I'd love to reskill in cyber - let me just find 30k for a computer science degree
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Norton Canes on October 12, 2020, 11:02:50 AM
^ Precisely the conclusion I reached after many attempts to transfer to our Uni's IT team.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 12, 2020, 11:09:15 AM
You shouldn't need a CS degree to be a general IT bod, a lot of it is having an encyclopedic knowledge of various Microsoft corporate stuff (e.g. Active Directory) plus maybe some Unix adminy stuff too.

Traditionally cs was largely theoretical, a lot of maths, logic that overlaps with philosophy and then some low and high level programming concepts. Although these days some of them have dropped some of the theoretical stuff in favour of teaching more software engineering (because that's what employers and students who want a degree for a job rather than academia think that's what they want) practices.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on October 12, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
Not sure if "she doesn't know it yet" is more patronising or sinister.

If we hadn't had the Tories in power during the pandemic, Fatima wouldn't need to look for a "next job" at all, as her industry would have been properly funded under Labour until there was a vaccine.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 11:19:09 AM
You shouldn't need a CS degree to be a general IT bod, a lot of it is having an encyclopedic knowledge of various Microsoft corporate stuff (e.g. Active Directory) plus maybe some Unix adminy stuff too.

Traditionally cs was largely theoretical, a lot of maths, logic that overlaps with philosophy and then some low and high level programming concepts. Although these days some of them have dropped some of the theoretical stuff in favour of teaching more software engineering (because that's what employers and students who want a degree for a job rather than academia think that's what they want) practices.

I think getting a job in tech requires either a computer science degree or something more vocational from a coding academy, or else a LOT of experience. You don’t need to have a degree to be an Active Directory admin, but you need to have experience working on corporate networks, or to have got there in increments by being a hobbyist PC builder or something. I reckon to go from zero tech experience beyond knowing how to use a smartphone, you’d need a solid three months or so in a boot camp to become employable. Which is fine, but it’s expensive and the posters don’t suggest the government has laid on any schemes or anything for people to actually retrain, so I imagine for a lot of ballerinas the reality of retraining for a job in tech is about as plausible as me training for one in ballet. Sure I could have a go if I was arsed, but I’d bankrupt myself before I found out whether I was any good.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: buzby on October 12, 2020, 11:33:07 AM
Do they use the godawful us 'infosec' terminology that makes them sound like they're playing laser quest. Blue/red teams etc?
They mostly just CC the latest phishing scam notice from the Government IT security website or security patch notices from Microsoft. A complete waste of time.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 12, 2020, 11:34:21 AM
I think getting a job in tech requires either a computer science degree or something more vocational from a coding academy, or else a LOT of experience. You don’t need to have a degree to be an Active Directory admin, but you need to have experience working on corporate networks, or to have got there in increments by being a hobbyist PC builder or something. I reckon to go from zero tech experience beyond knowing how to use a smartphone, you’d need a solid three months or so in a boot camp to become employable. Which is fine, but it’s expensive and the posters don’t suggest the government has laid on any schemes or anything for people to actually retrain, so I imagine for a lot of ballerinas the reality of retraining for a job in tech is about as plausible as me training for one in ballet. Sure I could have a go if I was arsed, but I’d bankrupt myself before I found out whether I was any good.

There are hnd/hnc courses for system/network admin stuff though and apprenticeships.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 12, 2020, 11:38:32 AM
They mostly just CC the latest phishing scam notice from the Government IT security website or security patch notices from Microsoft. A complete waste of time.

One of our customers got some 'pen test' consultants in, they were charlatans that tested against the top 10 vulns and that was about it. Presumably a skiddie using the 11th most popular exploit is something that would never happen.

The people commissioning it used to not understand what they sent us so they'd point to things like 'iis server leaking version' and go 'why's that?' and we'd go 'this is a java app running on tomcat, you tell us'.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: buzby on October 12, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
I'd love to reskill in cyber - let me just find 30k for a computer science degree
TBH, back when my team consisted of more than just me, we always found that the CS graduates ended up being not the best at writing practical, efficient code for embedded work at least. Graduates from EE backgrounds seemed to get their heads around the realities of the hardware limitations a bit quicker. The CS grads we have had come through the department recently have all run a mile as the ancient stuff we work on is totally alien to them.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: steve98 on October 12, 2020, 11:46:18 AM
I imagine for a lot of ballerinas the reality of retraining for a job in tech is about as plausible as me training for one in ballet. Sure I could have a go...

Have a go man, Sadlers Wells are cryin' out for folk like you; what have you got to lose?

(https://d3s3zh7icgjwgd.cloudfront.net/AcuCustom/Sitename/DAM/054/Sophie_E236_8_F_Main.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 11:49:43 AM
TBH, back when my team consisted of more than just me, we always found that the CS graduates ended up being not the best at writing practical, efficient code for embedded work at least. Graduates from EE backgrounds seemed to get their heads around the realities of the hardware limitations a bit quicker. The CS grads we have had come through the department recently have all run a mile as the ancient stuff we work on is totally alien to them.

I’m a CS grad, and I’m absolutely not a coder. I wasn’t a coder before starting the course and I didn’t learn it during the course, because it wasn’t designed as a vocational thing.

The best developers I was at university with were good coders before they arrived at university, and with the exception of a couple of Cambridge grads[1] the best developers I’ve known in the places I’ve worked have either been self-taught non-graduates, or grads from other fields like physics where knowledge of coding has practical applications.

Whether graduates or not, everyone I know of with strong skills in CYBER - whether that’s development or admin - has quite obviously got a fuck of a lot of hours under their belts. Like ballerinas, really. “Hey, you know your job which you trained for thousands of hours for? Fancy doing that again for something else?”
 1. As I understand if, the syllabus there is closer to EE.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 12, 2020, 11:52:44 AM
TBH, back when my team consisted of more than just me, we always found that the CS graduates ended up being not the best at writing practical, efficient code for embedded work at least. Graduates from EE backgrounds seemed to get their heads around the realities of the hardware limitations a bit quicker. The CS grads we have had come through the department recently have all run a mile as the ancient stuff we work on is totally alien to them.

This ties into what I was saying about CS degrees becoming more like 'software engineering' degrees, so will mostly teach high-level languages (it was java in my day but probably python now as it requires less boilerplate).

In my day we didn't do much embedded stuff either, just one robotics modules programing a handy board based around a m6800 and that was in 'interactive c'. There should've been more really, the only thing we did with assembly was around writing our own recersive-descent compilers.


My last place wasn't that strict on the degree thing and we found some of the self-taught people were better than some of the degree staff.

Although some of the worst code I've seen recently is from experienced oop developers trying to shoehorn unnecessary enterprisey patterns into python.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 12:00:45 PM
This ties into what I was saying about CS degrees becoming more like 'software engineering' degrees, so will mostly teach high-level languages (it was java in my day but probably python now as it requires less boilerplate).

In my day we didn't do much embedded stuff either, just one robotics modules programing a handy board based around a m6800 and that was in 'interactive c'. There should've been more really, the only thing we did with assembly was around writing our own recersive-descent compilers.


My last place wasn't that strict on the degree thing and we found some of the self-taught people were better than some of the degree staff.

Although some of the worst code I've seen recently is from experienced oop developers trying to shoehorn unnecessary enterprisey patterns into python.

Snap. We learnt in Java and C#, but really only for the rudiments of how algorithms work without needing to get bogged down in garbage collection and whatnot. We did a bit of assembly on 6800, but again only to get the idea of machine language across. I was annoyed that my dissertation was enforced as a piece of software, because the course hadn’t taught us the methodologies in a way we could apply practically.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: SavageHedgehog on October 12, 2020, 12:03:17 PM
Fatima has now been in IT for three days

(https://i1.wp.com/thespool.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cropped-lawnmower-man.jpeg?resize=1067%2C600&ssl=1)

She's really getting into it!
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 12, 2020, 12:10:41 PM
Snap. We learnt in Java and C#, but really only for the rudiments of how algorithms work without needing to get bogged down in garbage collection and whatnot. We did a bit of assembly on 6800, but again only to get the idea of machine language across. I was annoyed that my dissertation was enforced as a piece of software, because the course hadn’t taught us the methodologies in a way we could apply practically.

Yeah and some people picked lots of non-technical modules like ux/hci and business stuff to practically avoid coding entirely. I worked with some other grads like that and it was clear they were trying to use it as a springboard to being a manager. It didn't always work too well because if they were shoved into technical rokesv(which weren't always coding, many were app support) they were unable to do a good enough job to impress their managers.

Obviously things like hci/ux are really important, but not if you're not going to use them.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on October 12, 2020, 12:12:13 PM
Tories and their supporters don't care that different people are suited for different jobs. When ministers are shuffled from post to post, and people like Chris Grayling can get a job with a ferry company, one can partly see why.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 12, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
It's divide and rule.

Most people are already in jobs that aren't their passion.

All that will happen is those people will side with the government and just assume arts will always be there, because Netflix
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 12:27:55 PM
Yeah and some people picked lots of non-technical modules like ux/hci and business stuff to practically avoid coding entirely. I worked with some other grads like that and it was clear they were trying to use it as a springboard to being a manager. It didn't always work too well because if they were shoved into technical rokesv(which weren't always coding, many were app support) they were unable to do a good enough job to impress their managers.

Obviously things like hci/ux are really important, but not if you're not going to use them.

There weren’t any non-technical modules to pick on my course, so you could opt to do more SQLy or assembly stuff, so it was odd that the dissertation was very specifically software.

I feel like a got a good grounding to work in a variety of tech roles, and could have spent the three years going hard on development and come out as an employable junior dev, but I don’t think there are any shortcuts to either thing. “Your next job could be in cyber” is meaningless if it doesn’t come alongside a “...and here’s a grant to help you get through the training”.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: BlodwynPig on October 12, 2020, 12:52:49 PM
One of our guys has ported an entire digital raft using the Boglin89 Framework, which is so outdated it make ThreeCan look like Original Tron level futuristic. I told the dpp that hsi were looking to mfk the disdot, but he was having nothing of IT ;)))) 
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: icehaven on October 12, 2020, 01:19:36 PM
Do they honestly think most people are going to see that ad and think "Wow, so you can train for years in one field you actually want to work in then do a 180 and spend years retraining in something completely different that you'd never even considered before? Sounds great." and not "Train for years in one field then be forced to go and do something completely different that you don't particularly want to do because your industry has been decimated? Sounds shite."?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: olliebean on October 12, 2020, 01:51:12 PM
The image seems to be advertising the "Cyber First" campaign, which is "a programme of opportunities to help young people aged 11 - 17 years explore their passion for tech by introducing them to the fast paced world of cyber security."

So it's not about retraining, despite using the word "reskill." It's about persuading teenagers to give up on their dreams and train to be cyber-snoops instead.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: bgmnts on October 12, 2020, 01:59:17 PM
"I was born in Preston, but I was made in the British Cyber Army."
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Captain Z on October 12, 2020, 02:27:42 PM
CyberFist: proud member of the ThoughtControl family - an EvilCorp subsidiary.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: I.D. Smith on October 12, 2020, 03:10:05 PM
Not sure if "she doesn't know it yet" is more patronising or sinister.

Thought that too. Sounds quite sinister, like way a mafia don would talk to his cronies about how a local baker is going to have a new business partner soon, but just "doesn't know it yet, hur hur hur"
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on October 12, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden has called the advert "crass", saying it did not come from his department. I don't think anyone had thought it came from his department though.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Thomas on October 12, 2020, 03:35:56 PM
Gradually preparing us all for a post-Brexit annihilation of anything vaguely 'arty', with the exception of Captain Tom merchandise and the 2022 'a golliwog in every window' campaign.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 12, 2020, 07:32:25 PM
The image seems to be advertising the "Cyber First" campaign, which is "a programme of opportunities to help young people aged 11 - 17 years explore their passion for tech by introducing them to the fast paced world of cyber security."

So it's not about retraining, despite using the word "reskill." It's about persuading teenagers to give up on their dreams and train to be cyber-snoops instead.

Yes, so it's really "Fatima's first job will be cyber, the deluded would-be dancer. REBOOT YOUR DREAMS, CHILD, it's high time you learnt how the world really works."
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Johnny Yesno on October 12, 2020, 07:47:21 PM
As well as being actually evil, this lot are fucking philistines. They don't have the first idea how much training and passion goes into being a dancer. Or any kind of artist, for that matter. They might work hard for periods of their life but they never actually dedicate their life to perfecting any skill except the skill of being a top tier cunt.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Better Midlands on October 12, 2020, 08:09:40 PM
they never actually dedicate their life to perfecting any skill except the skill of being a top tier cunt.

Wrong.

That also comes effortlessly to them.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: imitationleather on October 12, 2020, 08:51:13 PM
When I was growing up my estate was so rough the only way we could ever dream of leaving was either in ballet shoes or a bodybag.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 12, 2020, 08:59:21 PM
As well as being actually evil, this lot are fucking philistines. They don't have the first idea how much training and passion goes into being a dancer. Or any kind of artist, for that matter. They might work hard for periods of their life but they never actually dedicate their life to perfecting any skill except the skill of being a top tier cunt.

I resent the idea that I might not be as passionate as a ballerina.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Norton Canes on October 13, 2020, 10:27:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CzMKs85.png)


Bit niche?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 13, 2020, 02:18:47 PM
Unlucky ballerina's, the boomers want to see tanks.

(https://www.dogsonacid.com/attachments/upload_2020-10-13_14-17-37-png.189195/)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 13, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
Unlucky ballerina's, the boomers want to see tanks.

(https://www.dogsonacid.com/attachments/upload_2020-10-13_14-17-37-png.189195/)

Jesus. Theatre clients of ours have been emailing about their funding coming through, but the biggest amount I’ve seen so far has been 500k.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on October 13, 2020, 02:32:00 PM
Is that in case the Army runs out of tanks to put on the streets post Brexit?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 13, 2020, 02:45:17 PM
Jesus. Theatre clients of ours have been emailing about their funding coming through, but the biggest amount I’ve seen so far has been 500k.

Potentially decades of hard graft outdone by some cunt driving over a car.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: olliebean on October 13, 2020, 04:06:52 PM
Unlucky ballerina's, the boomers want to see tanks.

(https://www.dogsonacid.com/attachments/upload_2020-10-13_14-17-37-png.189195/)

Note that anyone receiving money from this fund has to post a public acknowledgement and thanks such as this as a condition of receiving it.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 13, 2020, 04:13:59 PM
One of my mates used to work for a mining firm in Senegal. They were legally obliged to set up funds and spend it on the local communities, an exchange for stealing their resources I guess. Anyway, they were fine with getting ripped off by corrupt bastards charging an order of magnitude too much to build something like a well because it was an order of magnitude less administration for them to sort out one overpriced well over 10 Wells.

I wonder if this is something like that. They don't mind pissing it up the wall as long as it makes it look like they're not allowing the arts to fail.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: olliebean on October 13, 2020, 04:18:00 PM
Note also that the £250-odd million they're generously giving out now is a fraction of the £1.57 billion they promised earlier in the year.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 13, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
the biggest amount I’ve seen so far has been 500k.
Right, but who wants to see a tank that only cost £500k?

You'd struggle to get a new Leopard 2 or Challenger 2 for under £3 million, I'd guess.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 13, 2020, 06:17:30 PM
Right, but who wants to see a tank that only cost £500k?

You'd struggle to get a new Leopard 2 or Challenger 2 for under £3 million, I'd guess.

You’d feel cheated if you went to the tank museum and all they had were knew tanks.

Actually, if you were the type of person who likes a tank museum you probably wouldn’t feel cheated. You’d feel horny. Come here, sexy tank, let me fuck your turret.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 13, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
Pictured dance school taking legal advice.

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1316074700792094722

(But probably not on to anything.)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 13, 2020, 07:02:27 PM
Pictured dance school taking legal advice.

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1316074700792094722

(But probably not on to anything.)

This is what I saw earlier:

(https://www.dogsonacid.com/attachments/upload_2020-10-13_13-27-53-png.189194/)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 13, 2020, 07:08:20 PM
Yeah, you’d assume the one thing the shithouse marketeers could get right would be not checking that the images they use are going to cause copyright issues for them.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Johnny Yesno on October 13, 2020, 07:14:22 PM
Wrong.

That also comes effortlessly to them.

Well, they do spend a lot of time practising, regardless of how effortless it is for them.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Johnny Yesno on October 13, 2020, 07:15:25 PM
I resent the idea that I might not be as passionate as a ballerina.

This is exactly the wrong meaning to take from my post.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 13, 2020, 07:28:25 PM
This is exactly the wrong meaning to take from my post.

I wasn't expecting anyone to take that seriously. My post count / time I've been a member should be enough to give away I'm not as passionate as a ballerina.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 13, 2020, 07:30:41 PM
Yeah, you’d assume the one thing the shithouse marketeers could get right would be not checking that the images they use are going to cause copyright issues for them.

I get the impression in this case it was uploaded to a site that meant the tories could freely use it?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Johnny Yesno on October 13, 2020, 08:22:49 PM
I wasn't expecting anyone to take that seriously. My post count / time I've been a member should be enough to give away I'm not as passionate as a ballerina.

Oh, sorry. Too much twitter will do that to a person.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 13, 2020, 10:52:53 PM
I get the impression in this case it was uploaded to a site that meant the tories could freely use it?

Yeah, my point was just that even useless marketers should know to source images that are properly licenced, as that's the very bare minimum of their job. If it wasn't from a free library they'd have plucked one from some paid place for pennies, so I never considered that the rights would be an issue for them.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: flotemysost on October 13, 2020, 11:18:00 PM
Bit late to the conversation, but I used to work in IT and had absolutely zero training/background in that area - admittedly it was more of an analytical role than one requiring hard tech skills - but I only got that job because it was an internal sideways move and I basically lucked out (also, this was in 2013, not on the coat tails of a fucking pandemic).

The pitiful level of coding I can do (after three-odd years of training, paid for by my employer) is highly unlikely to land me another job in tech on its own merit, given there are people who are fucking fluent in this shit and just generally more numerically-minded than me (I failed my GCSE Maths, fwiw).

But sure, go ahead, tell people who've spent their entire adult life fucking toiling and sweating away in low-paid or unpaid roles to pursue a career in the arts that all they need to do is just learn cyber (honestly haven't heard that word since c. 1999) while you continue to hang draw and quarter any art, culture or community that's left in this fucking dump. Absolute vile cunts.

Oh and they're so thoughtful and with-it to use an image of a person of colour and choose an Islamic sounding name, guess they're not horrific racist twats after all. CUNTS
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: PlanktonSideburns on October 13, 2020, 11:20:07 PM
time to learn to cyber-code tanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM9O32cHxkg
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 13, 2020, 11:41:29 PM
Fatima's next job could be in an open letter penned by professor Richard Dawkins.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 12:36:00 AM
If it wasn't for my knees, I wouldn't be up at 00:30 working out that IIS URL Authorization reacts to a mistyped username by very slowly shitting the bed.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Blumf on October 14, 2020, 12:43:52 AM
People still use IIS?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 12:47:01 AM
Not willingly, in my case.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 12:52:23 AM
People still use IIS?

It’s more commonly called IISIL or Daiish these days.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: evilcommiedictator on October 14, 2020, 01:20:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sxIYRIB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NY4X0DN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kM9c67u.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/onHFMfs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/n9LDvMq.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 09:57:49 AM
People still use IIS?

As I said, it was nothing to do with our application and we weren't aware of its existence as their IT team had put it in front of our app and its app-server without telling us. I think they were using it as a reverse proxy to do tls but not 100% sure, I know there are much better tools for the job.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 10:09:47 AM
Snap. We learnt in Java and C#, but really only for the rudiments of how algorithms work without needing to get bogged down in garbage collection and whatnot. We did a bit of assembly on 6800, but again only to get the idea of machine language across. I was annoyed that my dissertation was enforced as a piece of software, because the course hadn’t taught us the methodologies in a way we could apply practically.



Java AND C#?

That seems like a waste of half a course. I'd have replaced one of them with a multi-paradigm language like Perl or Python.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: MojoJojo on October 14, 2020, 10:43:44 AM
Nah, get some properly different paradigms in there with Prolog and Scheme. Everything else is just variants of C.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
Fuck it, it's a Comp Sci course...Lisp.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 11:11:54 AM
This was in 2005 onwards but I did mostly Java for general purpose teaching (data structures, algorithms, some jsp web stuff, some 3d graphics stuff), C for Operating System and Compiler type stuff and programming handyboards and then some Haskell and Prolog for functional programming and logic stuff which I can barely remember.

I can see why Python has replaced Java as there's far less boilerplate for a student to get confused over when trying to teach something; often it was a case in the beginning of 'ignore things outside of this method' as it was just a class with main in it.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 11:14:33 AM
I mainly use Java for automated test suites at the moment and all I can think of is how it'd be much quicker and easier in a dynamic language like Ruby or Perl (or Groovy, which was really just Java-heads admitting that Ruby's syntactic sugar and low ceremony is better for most general-purpose applications).
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
I mainly use Java for automated test suites at the moment and all I can think of is how it'd be much quicker and easier in a dynamic language like Ruby or Perl (or Groovy, which was really just Java-heads admitting that Ruby's syntactic sugar and low ceremony is better for most general-purpose applications).

We use Groovy for our (Jenkins) deploy scripts and it does seem to add some powerful mapping capabilities you see in more dynamic languages. I think financial institutions littered with Java use Scala to do similar things with number crunching.

I went from being a Java developer of nearly 10 years to a place that used mostly PHP and Python written by people who knew what they were doing so it was very clean and succinct (rather than a shitshow where types are mutated all over the shop), it was like a breath of fresh air, as big old Java monoliths had so much boilerplate I was finding I was getting fed up before I'd added a line of code that actually did anything.

Writing tests in pure Java can be frustrating given how disposable tests can be.

There's someone here who is a Javascript zealot and thinks the solution is to use Javascript everywhere including in the backend as it's 'only one thing to learn', personally I think learning two things is easier than getting people to use an asynchronous language to perform potentially long single-thread operations but that's just me. I've seen some Node scripts and they looked like a fucking christmas tree with all the promises chained together.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 11:50:17 AM


Java AND C#?

That seems like a waste of half a course. I'd have replaced one of them with a multi-paradigm language like Perl or Python.

I think Java was fairly widely used in universities in the early 2000s for one reason or another. C# seems reasonable wise as a choice because it’s been used as a production language in the places I’ve worked since.

But like I said the course wasn’t designed to turn out developers, so it was closer to a fifth of the course which was spent in those two languages, with about equal amount of time given to looking at by-then arcane languages (like relatively high level overviews if COBOL, Fortran, Prolog, Eiffel(!)), assembly, compilers, database stuff, maths. Wide and shallow rather than narrow and deep, kind of thing.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 11:53:23 AM
But Java and C# are basically the same language. The only real difference is the backing of the .NET libraries that C# has.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 11:55:39 AM

There's someone here who is a Javascript zealot and thinks the solution is to use Javascript everywhere including in the backend as it's 'only one thing to learn', personally I think learning two things is easier than getting people to use an asynchronous language to perform potentially long single-thread operations but that's just me. I've seen some Node scripts and they looked like a fucking christmas tree with all the promises chained together.

I hate Javascript, mainly because of dickheads like that. It's a language specified, designed and implemented in 10 fucking days and by fuck does it show. Keep it off the fucking server.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 11:56:33 AM
I spend a large proportion of my time trying to stop developers implementing business logic in JS, then some twat comes along and wants to use it server-side.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 11:57:39 AM
There's someone here who is a Javascript zealot and thinks the solution is to use Javascript everywhere including in the backend as it's 'only one thing to learn'

That's fucking mental. I've said in this thread that I'm not a coder, but I at least know enough of each major paradigm (I think) that I can sort of work out what code is doing if I ever do need to look at it. For me that's mainly when filing bug reports so that I can say to devs/QAs "looks like this line might be an issue" rather than just telling them something's fecked, and presumably your JS nut isn't in a bunker where they never have to interact with other people's Python and whatnot.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 12:03:32 PM
Yeah it's mad.

I've seen a school of thought that Javascript with all it's idiosyncrasies is now viewed as an 'assembly language' of the web and that people should be using frameworks on top of it to write (transpile) to pure JS. But the frameworks seem to change week-by-week. The fundamentals for development I learned years ago and are supplemented by changes in languages that I typically pick up quite quickly on top. I'd go mad being a front-end developer.

And what good is an 'assembly language' that still can't compare objects properly. Fucksake.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 12:06:15 PM
I've seen a school of thought that Javascript with all it's idiosyncrasies is now viewed as an 'assembly language' of the web and that people should be using frameworks on top of it to write (transpile) to pure JS. But the frameworks seem to change week-by-week.

Ah, so a bit like using a WYSIWIG editor to generate the HTML for you? That would certainly explain the batshitness of some JS I've seen out there.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 12:11:00 PM
Ah, so a bit like using a WYSIWIG editor to generate the HTML for you? That would certainly explain the batshitness of some JS I've seen out there.

More like how PRO*C is just C with some inbuilt hooks to make querying an Oracle database immediately easy, the PRO*C precompiler spits out C that is a mixture of your code and the code to query the DB which is then compiled by an actual C compiler (like gcc). Of course for responsiveness or just to stop people copying it, the JS you see on a webpage has often been minified to remove whitespace or intentionally ran through an obfuscation tool to stop people copying it or being able to subvert front-end logic with browser extensions.

A common one is Microsoft's Typescript (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TypeScript) which can add strong-typing to JS.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 12:16:11 PM
Oh and for added madness, there's also something called Next JS which executes the front-end Javascript on a server to do the rendering then sends the DOM to the browser.

There was talk of using that in our last job for connected televisions with not much ram. The front end lads used to use shitloads of javascript libraries that would exhaust the resources on their devices then beg us to up the image compression on our backend image renderers and to turn off json pretty printing to save literal bytes of white-space.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: evilcommiedictator on October 14, 2020, 12:42:25 PM
Java was free hence Unis loved it as they didn't have to pay for Visual Studio licenses, twas all the rage until we figured out it wasn't
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: imitationleather on October 14, 2020, 12:43:57 PM
As if Fatima would ever want to hang out with you fucking nerds.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 12:46:15 PM
Java was free hence Unis loved it as they didn't have to pay for Visual Studio licenses, twas all the rage until we figured out it wasn't

And now Oracle are going to strangle it with licensing, another part of Sun's legacy in tatters. Just like their database product, you'd have to have your head examined to build new stuff in it.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: evilcommiedictator on October 14, 2020, 12:49:48 PM
And now Oracle are going to strangle it with licensing. Just like their database product, you'd have to have your head examined to build new stuff in it.
The Uni I work for does all its internal datawarehousing in Oracle. Guess who is upping the price and going to lose a customer to the M$ cloud?
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Java was free hence Unis loved it as they didn't have to pay for Visual Studio licenses, twas all the rage until we figured out it wasn't

Yeah, there are other free languages of course but I think the Java attraction was that the University of Kent had developed (or funded) a free IDE in the form of BlueJ, so students could learn how to work with an IDE without, as you say, the Visual Studio license fees.

I imagine there's way more and way better free development environments now, so students must be having a whale of a time.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Blumf on October 14, 2020, 12:51:43 PM
I thought the 'assembly language of the net' JS stuff was just supposed to be a tight subset of JS that wouldn't be particularly readable, but the browsers could neatly optimise and run. Then that's all been overtaken by wasm.

None of which stops idiots dragging in massive frameworks just to call a single, simple function that already exists in the language anyway.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
The Uni I work for does all its internal datawarehousing in Oracle. Guess who is upping the price and going to lose a customer to the M$ cloud?

That's basically what they rely on now isn't it? Asking for a bit less than the cost of migrating to something cheaper and in most cases much easier to use.

Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
Yeah, there are other free languages of course but I think the Java attraction was that the University of Kent had developed (or funded) a free IDE in the form of BlueJ, so students could learn how to work with an IDE without, as you say, the Visual Studio license fees.

I imagine there's way more and way better free development environments now, so students must be having a whale of a time.

Ahh Blue J. I recently spotted it and the book it came with in a box of books when looking for something. I suppose I've missed my opportunity to recoup  some of the cost by selling it to some first years.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 01:02:32 PM
I can't for the life of me remember what we learned C# in. I can't imagine the uni would have paid for VS, but I'm almost certain whatever it was I used had syntax highlighting for the code, and IntelliSense seems to be one of the selling points of paid VS versus free editors. Maybe I had a cracked version, or MS were giving universities free licences to get the undergrads hooked.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 01:05:51 PM
Isn't there a basic community edition or something? I didn't do much at all but we had a soft web module from a lecturer who was more about web trends than anything else and we had a couple of modules dicking about in C# by dragging forms about in VS, it wasn't really coding, but it wasn't wsyiwyg either as you had to code the actions. It was very surface level and I didn't learn much.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 01:07:40 PM
The point of about transpiling is that it's perfectly possible to build languages with far more pleasant syntax and (for many people) more tolerable paradigms (like class-based inheritance) on top of JS, and the performance characteristics of JS in Chrome and Firefox (as the two platforms now are, pretty much, or their underlying JS  engines if you prefer) feel fairly known... so why not do so?

Biggest issue that we've not really seen anything (other than boring bits like type-systems) gain huge amounts of traction.

Coffeescript, a bit, in the Ruby on Rails world for a bit, which made some sense.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 01:09:40 PM
Interesting to compare with R, where a certain class systems have gained prominence for certain purposes and tidyverse has come to dominate syntax (esp magrittr pipe) and supporting conventions (often somewhat at odds with standard library).
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 01:10:39 PM
The point of about transpiling is that it's perfectly possible to build languages with far more pleasant syntax and (for many people) more tolerable paradigms (like class-based inheritance) on top of JS, and the performance characteristics of JS in Chrome and Firefox (as the two platforms now are, pretty much, or their underlying JS  engines if you prefer) feel fairly known... so why not do so?

Biggest issue that we've not really seen anything (other than boring bits like type-systems) gain huge amounts of traction.

Coffeescript, a bit, in the Ruby on Rails world for a bit, which made some sense.

Because sooner or later you're going to need to debug the transpiled code, which will require a familiarity with the target language.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 01:11:28 PM
Isn't there a basic community edition or something? I didn't do much at all but we had a soft web module from a lecturer who was more about web trends than anything else and we had a couple of modules dicking about in C# by dragging forms about in VS, it wasn't really coding, but it wasn't wsyiwyg either as you had to code the actions. It was very surface level and I didn't learn much.

God knows - it was 2007/8 when I last used it, so whatever environments were around at the time are lost to the annals of ancient software history.

I wrote an Othello playing program in C# for my dissertation. Well, I say I wrote it, but the approach was to demo your work to date at the end of the first trimester of final year with the understanding that it wouldn't be fully functional, and then to hand in a write up and source code at the end of the year. But the requirement for the source code was as a hard copy, so I said fuck it and plagiarised a load of stuff I had found on the internet and faked the screenshots I needed.

You read that right; a hard copy.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 01:12:34 PM
The point of about transpiling is that it's perfectly possible to build languages with far more pleasant syntax and (for many people) more tolerable paradigms (like class-based inheritance) on top of JS, and the performance characteristics of JS in Chrome and Firefox (as the two platforms now are, pretty much, or their underlying JS  engines if you prefer) feel fairly known... so why not do so?

There's nothing wrong with that in theory, but it also papers over a lot of cracks in what essentially is a broken language and it's not going to be clear how exactly they are doing that until their method of abstraction fails miserably.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 01:13:26 PM
Interesting to compare with R, where a certain class systems have gained prominence for certain purposes and tidyverse has come to dominate syntax (esp magrittr pipe) and supporting conventions (often somewhat at odds with standard library).

Yes, R is an odd one in that I don't think I've ever seen instructions for anything which involve using it in its stock form, and it's always "first make sure you have the dplyr library..."
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
Because sooner or later you're going to need to debug the transpiled code, which will require a familiarity with the target language.
Less than a C or Rust programmer has to deal with assembly, in my experience with Coffeescript.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 01:15:04 PM
A researcher I know was using R for their statistical work, when R wasn't up to the job they used C++ which seems brutal compared to things like Python which also has great stat packages (and matlab stuff if you need it).
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 01:17:49 PM
God knows - it was 2007/8 when I last used it, so whatever environments were around at the time are lost to the annals of ancient software history.

I wrote an Othello playing program in C# for my dissertation. Well, I say I wrote it, but the approach was to demo your work to date at the end of the first trimester of final year with the understanding that it wouldn't be fully functional, and then to hand in a write up and source code at the end of the year. But the requirement for the source code was as a hard copy, so I said fuck it and plagiarised a load of stuff I had found on the internet and faked the screenshots I needed.

You read that right; a hard copy.

I did a little engine that would pull mms photo messages out of an email inbox (using different methods of MIME extraction for different networks) and a complementary image site that let people view it. I wanted to do a facebook addon to get them in there and ran out of time, and as I was frantically writing the dissertation in the last couple of weeks before the deadline Facebook added a native feature to send images via MMS anyway. Great.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 01:21:50 PM
I've never used Python properly - definitely not for statistical stuff - but if I ever have a need to do stats in anger I'd definitely learn it, because R is maddening for it in a lot of ways. IIRC it won't handle comparison operators for integer versus decimal types, or slightly different date types, so the start of every script I've ever written does a load of conversions before the interesting stuff starts.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 01:22:57 PM
No, that's nonsense, cheers.

(Well, not completely. But lubridate makes datetime handling entirely sane and comparing like-with-like should be something you're doing conciously.)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 01:26:27 PM
It could well be. I've mainly used it for joining different spreadsheets together, and have bad memories of having to do a lot of googling and try a lot of different ways to do "if date A from sheet 1 < date B from sheet 2, put "true" in new column C". So not stats at all, just R as a means to a particular end, and not a means I'd use again for the same purpose.

The comparison with int/dec is something I've misremembered but which happens in SSRS. I know you should be conscious of your types, but for fuck's sake don't give me an error if I try and do 2 * 2.5 rather than 2.0 * 2.5.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 01:26:43 PM
My issue with Python is that it's a language dominated by its constant failure to get anywhere near its own philosophy.

And I think Guido knows this, which is some consolation, but I really hope it troubles him.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 01:38:16 PM
My issue with Javascript is that it's 'too broken to fix' now; people have coded round its shortcomings for so long that if it started behaving like it's supposed to everything else would stop working.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 01:44:39 PM
Someone should design a language which has no shortcomings, and then at least we could tell Fatima which one to learn. Don’t bother with C, Python, Pascal, they’re all flawed, just learn CYBer.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 01:44:45 PM
The comparison with int/dec is something I've misremembered but which happens in SSRS. I know you should be conscious of your types, but for fuck's sake don't give me an error if I try and do 2 * 2.5 rather than 2.0 * 2.5.
R will complain about integer vs. real stuff in many relevant situations, but you almost always have to go out of your way to get an integer.

An integer literal reads like '2L' rather than '2', for example. ("L" because the language is still stuffed with things from decades past, but most of which - in a tidyverse environment - you'll never have to deal with.)

(Given the alternatives: Much of where I work relies on Stata, and that's a fucking nightmare that I've refused to be involved with. Many of us are trying to nudge Epidemiologists and Public Health Consultants towards R, which seems to involve a few of them coming to terms with the fact that they never knew what they were doing and it wasn't their fault.)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Zetetic on October 14, 2020, 01:45:26 PM
Someone should design a language which has no shortcomings
It turns out, for humans, it's Ruby, but they throw you in prison if your say that these days.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 01:50:30 PM
Gonna invent a language called GaryScript where classes are called 'Gary's' (COS HE'S CLASS) and functions are called Daz's 'cos he's a tool.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Paul Calf on October 14, 2020, 02:15:00 PM
It could well be. I've mainly used it for joining different spreadsheets together, and have bad memories of having to do a lot of googling and try a lot of different ways to do "if date A from sheet 1 < date B from sheet 2, put "true" in new column C".

I'm going to try hard to forget I ever read this.

Gonna invent a language called GaryScript where classes are called 'Gary's' (COS HE'S CLASS) and functions are called Daz's 'cos he's a tool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 02:17:49 PM
It could well be. I've mainly used it for joining different spreadsheets together, and have bad memories of having to do a lot of googling and try a lot of different ways to do "if date A from sheet 1 < date B from sheet 2, put "true" in new column C". So not stats at all, just R as a means to a particular end, and not a means I'd use again for the same purpose.

The comparison with int/dec is something I've misremembered but which happens in SSRS. I know you should be conscious of your types, but for fuck's sake don't give me an error if I try and do 2 * 2.5 rather than 2.0 * 2.5.
You know you can reference other workbooks in excel?
(https://cdn.ablebits.com/_img-blog/excel-vlookup/excel-vlookup-another-workbook.png)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 03:07:52 PM
You know you can reference other workbooks in excel?
(https://cdn.ablebits.com/_img-blog/excel-vlookup/excel-vlookup-another-workbook.png)

Aye, but the use case was for SQL-y type joins and unions on multiple different data sources. It's stuff that might just've about been theoretically possible in Excel, but there were too many rows so it killed my PC.

I've learned to use Tableau Prep since and gone back to the same data I wrangled with R, and the thing is a fucking miracle, and within about half an hour of first picking it up I'd done what took me ages to get up to speed with R for.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on October 14, 2020, 03:11:41 PM
Fair enough. I know fuck all about using Excel as a proper spreadsheet but I did have to maintain some reporting stuff that used vba libraries and hidden sheets to connect directly to db's and do queries.

I'm quite happy to pretend I know even less than I do if it means someone else has to do it tbh. Some of the customers I worked with could do way more powerful stuff in it than any of us techies ever worked out to do, but then we had other tools at our disposal I suppose.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 03:18:52 PM
I'm going to try hard to forget I ever read this.

Ha. It was to get over some shortcomings of reporting from mailing software we use at work. They can give you a sends report, an opens report, a clicks report, but not all in the same output file and not for more than a single mailing at a time. R was essentially being used to recreate the software's database tables from spreadsheets due to not having any means to query the db directly.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: DistressedArea on October 14, 2020, 05:58:01 PM
All goes to show that coding, like dance, can be powerfully erotic.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Hand Solo on October 14, 2020, 06:31:41 PM
Esther's next job could be in Auschwitz.

(she just doesn't know it yet)
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 14, 2020, 06:49:55 PM
Note also that the £250-odd million they're generously giving out now is a fraction of the £1.57 billion they promised earlier in the year.

They haven't - yet - said that the remainder of the £1.57 billion is off the table. The £257 million is going to organisations who applied for grants of under £1 million, so organisations who applied for more are still waiting to hear what the fuck's going to happen.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: DistressedArea on October 14, 2020, 07:42:38 PM
Anyway, it should be encoding.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: Dex Sawash on October 15, 2020, 12:08:11 AM
Odd that an esoteric dance sub-conversation hasn't broken out
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: DistressedArea on October 15, 2020, 01:15:51 PM
Think the government is right about this: dancing should NOT be encouraged under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
Title: Re: Fuck dance, let's code
Post by: touchingcloth on October 15, 2020, 01:30:01 PM
Think the government is right about this: dancing should NOT be encouraged under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Agreed. What is wrong with standing by a wall holding a pint and nodding your head in time with the music like a sane person?