Python Wars

[Keebleman]

Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but this has taken me by surprise.








I can't quite follow this next one:





But this one is all too clear:






And now his daughter has piled in!

[Pavlov`s Dog`s Dad`s Dead]

Boo fucking hoo. I bet he's still a good bit more comfortable than - to pick a name entirely at random - Neil Innes was in later life.

[Menu]

That's really interesting. Thanks, Keebleman. Going by the thread title I'd have put money on this being about Cleese falling out with one of them again. I've never picked up on any friction between Gilliam and Idle before but I might have missed it. And I didn't know that one of his kids was now in a management role. Never a good idea. Could any smart person here put a realistic estimation on what his wealth actually is. Surely he's not ACTUALLY struggling. He just can't keep up with all his great arselicking Hollywood showbiz mates. I'd imagine there are US shows queuing up to give him hundreds of thousands to guest in an episode. Isn't that what Cleese does? He runs out of money and then spends ten years appearing in shit. Then retires for ten years. Gets married. Then runs out of money and does it all over again.

[Menu]

Also I love Terry Gilliam as a film director but I do sense he's probably quite fucking annoying in real life.

[Toki]

Has Idle done anything since throwing that hissy fit over Shrek 3's coconuts? IMDB gives the impression he's only had a few cameos and stuff, and obviously there was his little book of very memorable anecdotes a little while ago.

Boo fucking hoo. I bet he's still a good bit more comfortable than - to pick a name entirely at random - Neil Innes was in later life.

I don't really have a reply to this, I just wanted to quote it because of how apt it is, and also somewhat surprised at how sad it made me to think of Neil Innes in the past tense. But yeah, fuck Eric Idle.

[Menu]

One theme that I remember running through the Palin diaries was Eric's obsession with money. I get the feeling he's always trying to financially 'keep up with the Joneses'. Not necessarily Terry though, who was more into nude swinging.

[bgmnts]

I admire Gilliam's continued anger and contrarianism even at that ripe old age. Idle does seem like someone who does like the money but that Hollywood lifestyle must be very expensive.

Thank fuck Jones and Palin had other hobbies and interests and just used that vast Python capital to do loads of really cool interesting things. There are loads of Jones and Palin shows, films and books outside of Python I can say I love, but I can't think of anything for Eric Idle or John Cleese.

[waste of chops]

On the other hand:

[Mister Six]

Hope we're all going to go back to thinking of Idle as the primary cunt Python. Been weird, him having a reputation rehabilitation just because Cleese has been such a bore the last few years.

[Stinky Lomax]

I'll take petty in-fighting from Idle over all the culture war shit Cleese and Gilliam have been spewing out.

(Good Gilliam summary here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/terry-gilliam-whines-about-being-cancelled-complains-about-trans-people.616344 )

[damien]

Re: Gilliam and Idle, there was all that serious stuff about the filming of Munchausen; how dangerous it was etc. He's said he was 'a nightmare'.

https://x.com/ericidle/status/259726193950085120?s=46&t=bJOqpCuQneT7ju08y55VSA

Sarah Polley talks about it here too

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/12/sarah-polley-terry-gilliam-run-towards-danger-baron-munchausen-interview

[lauraxsynthesis]

Yeah I saw that yesterday and it made me a bit sad that Idle was airing the dirty laundry in public and potentially falling out with Gilliam if he hadn't already. Somehow the 50th anniversary stuff passed me by completely. I'd have been well up for going to BFI if I'd heard about it.

Good that folks have been taking Idle to task over Innes.

[TheMonk]

Looking at Idle's Twitter feed he looks a bit... unhappy at the moment. Throws dirt all over the place.

E.g.

Rick:
Typical lying celebrity. The song royalties from the Rutles alone set you up for generations!!

Idle:
They all went to Neil.

Palin seems to be the only surviving Python not sullying their name really.

[DrGreggles]

Looking at Idle's Twitter feed he looks a bit... unhappy at the moment. Throws dirt all over the place.

E.g.

Rick:
Typical lying celebrity. The song royalties from the Rutles alone set you up for generations!!

Idle:
They all went to Neil.

That's famously untrue. They were Lennon/McCartney for 30 years.
I think Neil finally got a Lennon/McCartney/Innes credit, but not back royalties.

[PinkNoise]

I honestly don't know what sort of "income streams" Idle expects from a franchise that hasn't produced any new material in 40 years. Spamalot was way to breathe new life into some old jokes, but that's two decades ago.

I think Idle looks at his old mate George's former band and can see how The Beatles keep re-issuing their back catalogue and reaching new fans every other year, keeping that revenue coming in. What are the Pythons going to do, get AI to recreate the "Wee-Wee" sketch and stream it on Netflix?*

The 2019 Python box set was the last word on the subject - there's nothing else I'd expect from them now.

I went to some of the BFI events in 2019 and thought at the time that it was the last gasp. Only Gilliam was going to appear at any of the screenings (and I'm not sure that he ever did).

I was there for Innes at the Rutles screening, which was great, but we lost him that Christmas. I saw Tim Brooke-Taylor discuss The 1948 Show and he died a few months later. I saw Nancy Lewis introduce And Now For Something Completely Different and *she* died a few months later. The whole event felt like the end of an era and it was kind of sad.

The last screening I went to was a programme of rarities on a Monday night at the smaller screen at the BFI. Only about 20 people there. It ended with some 8mm footage of Python filming from 1971, narrated by Palin (on the soundtrack, he wasn't there in person). When the final mute shots of the crew shooting Dennis Moore drew to a close, the house lights came up and our tiny group of remaining Python enthusiasts shuffled out into the night in silence. 

*although I would be 100% up for that

[Asclepius]

Argh. I find Idle so frustrating. Look at his tweets on social commentary, culture wars, trans folk etc. Hes bang on. A genuine GBOL. But the alleged screwing over of Innes? It's got to be partly true, at least, hasn't it?

Still, I'd rather read his take on the 2020s (2010s, 2000s) than Cleese or Gilliam.

Is it just Innes that Idle is supposed to have screwed over, or does he leave a long line of screwees?

[BritishHobo]

Re: Gilliam and Idle, there was all that serious stuff about the filming of Munchausen; how dangerous it was etc. He's said he was 'a nightmare'.

https://x.com/ericidle/status/259726193950085120?s=46&t=bJOqpCuQneT7ju08y55VSA

Sarah Polley talks about it here too

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/12/sarah-polley-terry-gilliam-run-towards-danger-baron-munchausen-interview

I love that. "What's the best film you worked on?" "I don't have one, how about the worst?"

[superthunderstingcar]

Boo fucking hoo. I bet he's still a good bit more comfortable than - to pick a name entirely at random - Neil Innes was in later life.

[Maureen Brontë]

On the other hand:

Sirkobble vs Sir Robin.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

palin still indisputably* the best one I see

_{*please don't}

[Maureen Brontë]

Wonder if Cleese gave Idle any money or credit for this Australian ad? (If Idle even knows about it.)

[markburgle]

But this one is all too clear:

Just to get my uninformed sofa-dwelling "I reckon" on - this sounds like the sort of bad-faith argument a twat would make. Revenues have tanked because, as stated upthread, their time has passed and they've wrung the sponge. But no, someone I don't like is in charge so I'm going to blame it all on them.

I'm sure most of us could've made the money Idle got from the 50th anniversary shows (£2.2 million, supposedly) last for at least half a lifetime. He's just forgotten how to not live expensively (or is unwilling to try).

[madhair60]

On the other hand:

anyone not in the pedal bin care to weigh in? hm??

[thenoise]

There are loads of Jones and Palin shows, films and books outside of Python I can say I love, but I can't think of anything for Eric Idle or John Cleese.

One Foot theme song and Clockwise.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

All You Need is Cash and Fawlty Towers, surely? What with them being All You Need is Cash and Fawlty Towers.

[Catalogue Trousers]

Gilliam has said some very ill-advised things, but he's produced some brilliant and genuinely humanitarian (for want of a better word) films along the way. Even his shitter films are worth watching. He champions Imagination and creates items of Wonder, along with his casts and crews, obviously.

Idle in terms of ethics seems pretty sound, as stated. Apart from screwing over Neil Innes, who was genuinely one of the loveliest, kindest people around. I think that he was the last Bonzo to give up on trying to help Vivian Stanshall.

Palin just seems genuinely lovely throughout, and he's probably the only surviving Python (other than Carol Cleveland) that one can say that about with a completely straight face.

Cleese has managed the amazing feat of going from deserved Comedy icon to boring old fart with a bee in his bonnet about 'woke' that makes Gilliam's look submicroscopic by comparison.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

[daf]

The 2019 Python box set was the last word on the subject - there's nothing else I'd expect from them now.

I'm still waiting for Rutland Weekend Televison, plus the two Monty Python's Fliegender Zirkus Specials to be released - WHERE ARE THEY??

[Armin Meiwes]

He should get himself on Cameo.. 100 quid a pop, knock out a couple of dozen a week, money for old rope! "Happy Birthday Trevor and remember.. always looks on the bright side of life!!".

[Memorex MP3]

I remember about 15 years ago there was a crash in the value of Elvis memorabilia between all the collectors either dying or needing the money for healthcare. Considering comedy tends to age out a lot more than most other artforms surely Python's just done as a major money maker.

[madhair60]

plus the two Monty Python's Fliegender Zirkus Specials to be released - WHERE ARE THEY??

i could have sworn they put these out. maybe on the R1 DVDs?