New talent in horror.

[phes]

Cannibal Holocaust was considerably earlier than that, and I would be amazed if that was the first.

I'm sure it's not the earliest one i've seen and when I work out what is i'll report back.

Chalk me up in the 'for' TBWP. Loved it the first time I saw it in the cinema. Still creeps me out, terribly.

[astrozombie]

Cannibal Holocaust was considerably earlier than that, and I would be amazed if that was the first.

Have not thought about 84C MoPic in YEARS. That's a great little film that. Thanks for reminding me of that one.

"Cannibal Holocaust" is my favourite of the ye olde Italian cannibal movies. Ruggero Diadato is a genius. But CH was more or less a nasty mondo movie. "Mondo Cane" has to be one of the first ever found footage film, that's from the early 60's. For those who don't know pretty much just a shockmentary which is a blend of real and fiction (the fiction being the really nasty stuff).

"Man Bites Dog" could be considered a found footage film. It's not the first but it's brilliant.

Spoiler alert

I loved how it had me laughing all the way through and then when that scene happened - you know when they're all drunk - it completely made me think to myself, "fuck what have I been laughing at for the last hour? Really makes you feel guilty and then it becomes disturbing and horrific. That is a special breed of horror movie.

[close]

Sad about the lead director Remy Belvaux though. He only made that one film, threw a cream pie in Bill Gates' face and then tragically committed suicide leaving behind only one film. I always wonder why he never made another movie.

Also another good found footage / mock-doc type horror film that came out around the same time as TBWP, I think it came out two years prior but without the genius market campaign slipped under everyone's radar. It's called "The Last Broadcast" haven't seen it in a few years but I remember it was a murder mystery with some really nasty realistic death scenes. I remember really enjoying it, will have to dig that one out.

[Noodle Lizard]

Man Bites Dog is incredibly good.  I'm glad it seems to be getting quite a lot of recognition on the net.  It's also one of the funniest films I've seen (albeit in an extremely dark way).

[astrozombie]

I remember first seeing MBD, I was about fourteen and picked it up on video in the pre-owned section of my local video shop. I remember thinking by the cover it was going to be an action film and then was completely taken aback with it. The grainy cheap horrible b&w film it was shot REALLY works to it's advantage. Feels like a loosely shot student documentary film which really adds to the realism. It seems as if it has no structure what-so-ever however is sneakily one of the deepest films I have ever seen. For me I have never seen a better example of comedy horror. Really lulls you into a false sense of security with its humor.

On the subject of found footage. Did "Cloverfield" go down well. I wasn't a massive fan, really couldn't watch it without thinking in my head, "ah look, thank God that guy has a Hollywood director of photography, a professional sound crew and some lighting men to follow him around during this harrowing attack on this city." I really think that found footage films can only truly work if they're shot on the cheapest grade video/film medium. I think a good method of making a good found footage movie now would be to shoot an entire film on a mobile phone.

The only professionally shot found footage film I liked was "Rec". I mean for me it looked way too controlled to be any near convincing, but I still loved every minute of it, 10 out of 10 stuff. I loved the sequel aswell and am looking forward to the third one.

[Noodle Lizard]

I agree 100% about Cloverfield.  Also the way we keep seeing bits from earlier on in the tape whenever it's convenient - if this is supposed to be found footage, the guy rewinding the camera at various points wouldn't be recorded, would it? 
Those flaws would be forgivable if the dialogue and story were to be somewhat believable though - seriously, a romantic subplot while the city's being attacked by a thing?  Come the fuck on, now.

And also, we saw the monster far too often and in far too much detail for its own good - especially since it looked a bit crap.  All the advertising had done a lot to create mystery and an internet buzz about what it could be, which was all swiftly ruined when you see the thing pretty clearly about half an hour into it, and then several times afterwards (not to mention the little things that fall off it).

It's late, I'm not writing well.

[Famous Mortimer]

Ah, "Cannibal Holocaust", a fine early audience participation movie. Right at the end, when he walks out of that screening room and goes "but who are the real cannibals?", you shout "people who eat human flesh are the real cannibals, you fucking idiot".

[phes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingagi

I guess Ingagi (1930) fits the mould as 'found footage'.

It's not what i'm thinking of that was earlier than Cannibal Holocaust. I'm thinking It could be something from a television special or series in the 70s.

[astrozombie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingagi

I guess Ingagi (1930) fits the mould as 'found footage'.

It's not what i'm thinking of that was earlier than Cannibal Holocaust. I'm thinking It could be something from a television special or series in the 70s.

Should have done my research, this looks pretty interesting never heard of it before now. Got to love that old exploito charm. "Cannibal Holocaust" is a technically a sequel, I've never seen it but Deodato made a film a few years prior called "Last Cannibal World", Italy were straight on the ball with the whole, make it appear to be a documentary so the violence is more disturbing, we'll chuck some dread fuelled synth soundtrack over it and boom. Most of the best horror films and directors from the 70's and 80's hail from there.

Ah, "Cannibal Holocaust", a fine early audience participation movie. Right at the end, when he walks out of that screening room and goes "but who are the real cannibals?", you shout "people who eat human flesh are the real cannibals, you fucking idiot".

Those dirty fucking journo's!

[Stone Cold Jane Austen]

As much as I like Triangle, it felt like somewhat of a rip-off of the Spanish film, Timecrimes, which was far better and more interesting. If you liked Triangle, you'll get well into Timecrimes too blud

Seconded. Timecrimes is a fantastic film. I'm a sucker for time travel paradox stories and this is one of the finest. I watched Triangle after I'd seen Timecrimes and it just seemed weak in comparison. I don't think it's a rip-off though, if I remember correctly, the two films were developed at about the same time and just happened to share a similar story.

[astrozombie]

Just got back from Blockbuster and have came back with the film "Splice" quite a fan of Vincenzo Natali after seeing "Cube" and "Cypher" hoping this will be good. He's an interesting sci-fi/horror director, "Cube" is a great bit of fun. I also quite liked the sequel and prequel.

I also got "Paul" with Simon Pegg - could be a horror?

[Paaaaul]

Splice is pretty good. Very reminiscent of the 80s TV drama Chimera.

[phantom_power]

I agree 100% about Cloverfield.  Also the way we keep seeing bits from earlier on in the tape whenever it's convenient - if this is supposed to be found footage, the guy rewinding the camera at various points wouldn't be recorded, would it? 

I think those bits were things that had been previously recorded on the tape that were kept there when the current recording was stopped and restarted

[danyulx]

Ah, "Cannibal Holocaust", a fine early audience participation movie. Right at the end, when he walks out of that screening room and goes "but who are the real cannibals?", you shout "people who eat human flesh are the real cannibals, you fucking idiot".

A film I thought was quite brilliant - if a bit shabby - but I will refuse to watch ever again - for a second time - due to the notorious "real-life animal snuff!", that near left me crying and traumatised to this day.

Still, I'm glad it exists. To rub people's face in the shit.

I'm not anymore against that film exisiting than in this world, say, Wimpy, for instance.

Kind of irks me to be honest. I mean Salva, director of incredibly hum-drum films, got to have what was to him the time of his life raping an eight your old boy in the face and still get's to continue a healthy career.

With the sole exception of 'Clownhouse' that is, which is in fact something of a bit of horror masterpiece. I can't think of any other horror film I've seen with a 'tone' quite like that one. Quite understandably though. Quite brilliantly directed - for a horror film - anyway

"Art and life are different. That's why one is called art and one is called life," as I think Goethe or one of that lot once pronounced.

Not in 'Clownhouse's case though.

After posting that last post I found myself tracking down a video interview with Salva and found this hidden away on the arse-end on youtube, promoting his film 'Peaceful Warrior' (which looks and sounds a bit pants) on some kind of religious TV show it seems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeCEx0nSfKs&feature=related

He comes across as a pretty sweet, intelligent and damaged guy, who I assume probably genuinely truly regrets what he did "back in the day" and has since probably fought a crippling battle to tone down his peadophillic-based sexuality to stop it from ever happening again.

Mind you, that's probably the line they all play, afterwards, isn't it?

What, Jimi Hendrix, once dedicated a song to The Black Panthers? No chance he weren't just a bit pissed and or smacked-up at the time and didn't even know what fucking day it was? And this wasn't fifty-odd years ago - anyway - when such hobbyists as The Black Panthers possibly had their misguided but understandable place anyway, about ten years following the last legal lynching in the USA?

[holyzombiejesus]

The funniest thing about Paranormal Activity is that the basis of the haunting is a demon. A fucking demon. With three toes. Who pulls people out of bed. Seriously. Boo indeed.

The funniest thing about Dracula is that the basis of the haunting is a vampire. A fucking vampire. With fangs and a cape. Who bites people on the neck. Seriously. Boo indeed.

Most horror films have quite preposterous set-ups. Why pick on PA and not, I dunno, The Exorcist, Frankenstein, Godzilla, Ringu?

[Jemble Fred]

Because they're well-made, brilliantly written, rewarding, rich narratives, packed with multi-layered characters who have intrigued us, in some cases, for centuries. Paranormal Activity is shit for cunts.

[holyzombiejesus]

I wasn't saying that Paranormal Activity is as good as those films, just that if you're ridiculing a film for having a demon/ something 'unrealistic' or fantastic at the core of the story (which you did in the post I quoted) then you're by association mocking a huge part of the whole horror genre. You don't have to be such an arsey prick about it.

[Noodle Lizard]

Agreed.  There are many reasons to hate Paranormal Activity (and I'm partial to them all), but the mere fact that a demon's involved isn't really one of them.

The incongruous CGI face at the end, on the other hand ...

[Jemble Fred]

Just answering arsiness with arsiness, as arsiness demands.

I did begin writing a lengthy diatribe about PA's many many shortcomings, and how comparing it to something like Dracula misses the whole point of both works, but in the end the good old 'S4C' line pretty much said it all.

The essential point is, when you've set up a desperately realistic situation, to the point of boring the viewer, 'Demon done it!' is NOT an acceptable reveal. Cloven hooved demons have not been scary since the Reformation, and in a specifically believable situation it's especially weak, compared to the multi-layered backstories of Ellie Kedward, or Pipes. Paranormal Activity is fundamentally a lazy knock-off compared to even Blair Witch, and it's a shame that anyone would defend such a thing.

[holyzombiejesus]

Just answering arsiness with arsiness, as arsiness demands.

I did begin writing a lengthy diatribe about PA's many many shortcomings, and how comparing it to something like Dracula misses the whole point of both works, but in the end the good old 'S4C' line pretty much said it all.

The essential point is, when you've set up a desperately realistic situation, to the point of boring the viewer, 'Demon done it!' is NOT an acceptable reveal. Cloven hooved demons have not been scary since the Reformation, and in a specifically believable situation it's especially weak, compared to the multi-layered backstories of Ellie Kedward, or Pipes. Paranormal Activity is fundamentally a lazy knock-off compared to even Blair Witch, and it's a shame that anyone would defend such a thing.

That reads much better if one imagines it being read out by your avatar.

[Dark Sky]

A film I thought was quite brilliant - if a bit shabby - but I will refuse to watch ever again - for a second time - due to the notorious "real-life animal snuff!", that near left me crying and traumatised to this day.

I only saw a UK DVD of Cannibal Holocaust, which is obviously edited as that film could never, ever be released uncut in the UK.  I wasn't so much disturbed by the footage of the animal killings which were left in, but by the fact that there is genuine footage of real-life executions, including the executions of children.  And, in a nasty twist, this footage is presented within the film as being fictional.

Paranormal Activity is fundamentally a lazy knock-off compared to even Blair Witch, and it's a shame that anyone would defend such a thing.

"Lazy knock off" is a very ignorant and unfair accusation to make, considering the production history of the film.

I also think it's odd to claim that ghosts are somehow more "realistic" than demons.  But I can take your point to a certain extent.  Blair Witch works incredibly well because nothing paranormal happens in the film; you can make up your own mind what's happening in that.  I suppose Ghostwatch makes the paranormal stuff palatable by suggesting that it's all been faked half way through.  And consider my own dislike of the ending to Cabin in the Woods, which I considered overtly fantastical compared to the rest of the film.  I think that's probably based more on disappointed expectations; a rewatch would let me enjoy it more.

All in all I think PA is well executed and atmospheric...it's not winning originality awards, but I think it's a very pure example of its genre, and - as with Blair Witch - the story of its production is as interesting as the film itself.

[phantom_power]

ignore, point made elsewhere

[Jemble Fred]

So you are saying ghosts are more believable than demons?

Obviously and palpably, several million times over. Demons are a medieval invention, the kind of thing only the most backward Bible belt audience would fear – especially when we're talking hooves and such shite.

Ghosts have endless ways of being explained, of being considered and examined and twisted into some kind of preternatural, believable context. They open up the door to endless twists and stories and dangers, whereas a Demon is just as laughable as an Angel, the concept is just too backward to provoke anything but laughter. This is less so with possession a la The Exocist, but that's because there's no solid explanation as to what's happening to Regan – The Exorcist would be equally crap if they put down talc and saw hoof prints, or in any way summoned up a physical 'Demon' in the way PA does.

Unless the culprit in PA is a two-legged invisible goat, genetically engineered, it's just sheer bollocks. It's 'the unexplained' which causes fear, for which ghosts can still qualify – but we know all too well how the image of a cloven-hooved demon was invented by the church to demonise pagan religions, it's a scaremongering concept which has long ago become entirely hollow, except to the most backward religiously-conditioned mindset.

Paranormal Activity did nothing to build any real willing suspension of disbelief, in my opinion. That's the problem, it was completely empty and simplistic. Perhaps the sequels flesh it out to the point where it could start getting a little bit scary, but too many people have warned me off the other PA's, so I don't know.

In the interests of balance, I would say the same goes for Dennis Wheatley horror, it's all too creaky and 'scary man with horns' to register as remotely threatening, to my mind. But I can forgive, say, 'The Devil Rides Out' for its brilliant performances.

[astrozombie]

With the sole exception of 'Clownhouse' that is, which is in fact something of a bit of horror masterpiece. I can't think of any other horror film I've seen with a 'tone' quite like that one. Quite understandably though. Quite brilliantly directed - for a horror film - anyway

"Art and life are different. That's why one is called art and one is called life," as I think Goethe or one of that lot once pronounced.

Not in 'Clownhouse's case though.

After posting that last post I found myself tracking down a video interview with Salva and found this hidden away on the arse-end on youtube, promoting his film 'Peaceful Warrior' (which looks and sounds a bit pants) on some kind of religious TV show it seems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeCEx0nSfKs&feature=related

He comes across as a pretty sweet, intelligent and damaged guy, who I assume probably genuinely truly regrets what he did "back in the day" and has since probably fought a crippling battle to tone down his peadophillic-based sexuality to stop it from ever happening again.

Mind you, that's probably the line they all play, afterwards, isn't it?

I have never seen "Clownhouse", I have only seen "Jeepers Creepers" which I thought started off very good but went downhill and become a bit boring toward the end and I have seen the suicidally dull "Powder". I will unearth Clownhouse and watch it based on your review.

I am completely fine with seperating art and life etc. I mean look at Big Poppa Polanski. I just think it's odd how some things i.e racism can completely ruin someone's career however paedophilic rape (which in my opinion is a little worse than racism) can be "forgotten" about, look at the hatred spewed toward Gibson vs. the "the heart wants what the heart wants" approach to Woody Allen sleazily buttfucking his foster daughter. I mean racism and fascistic ideals are not good but I'd rather hold those views than the desires Salva has. I'd find it easier to sit down and have a coffee with someone who held some extreme right wing views than with someone who filmed himself fucking a 12 year old boy in the mouth - I mean in both instances coversation would be a little thin on the ground but still.

[Zetetic]

I'd rather hold those views than the desires Salva has.

Well perhaps, but I think it's worth being clear that any problem with Salva, and indeed Polanski, should not be with their sexual desires but their behaviour. (As something of a contrast, Langham is more complex case.)

[astrozombie]

By the way, I enjoyed "Splice", good silly fun that was.

"Paul" on the other hand. Bucket of rotten anchovy cunts that film was, they should put a fucking sticker on the front cover warning of possible brain cancer dangers. I should have known though, I mean really, Simon Pegg and Nick Frost wearing trendy top shop comic book t-shirts on the front cover of the film they also wrote the screenplay for.

[thugler]

there is genuine footage of real-life executions, including the executions of children.  And, in a nasty twist, this footage is presented within the film as being fictional.

I don't think there is, are you sure>?

[Paaaaul]

I don't think there is, are you sure>?

Yep, he's right.
There was a sequence in the film, commonly known as The Last Road To Hell. which is shown on a TV, containing real executions. I believe most DVD versions have excised this part though.

[Dark Sky]

From what research I remember doing ten years ago when I watched it, the UK DVD I bought removes "most" of the child executions.  Implying that amongst all the footage of real executions, some are still children.  That may be wrong, of course, but certainly there is genuine execution footage in the film.  Woop.

That (and the genuine animal killing) is the only reason I consider Cannibal Holocaust to be in any way 'extreme'.  The horror and fictional gore is otherwise relatively tame.

[Theremin]

the UK DVD I bought removes "most" of the child executions.

Sentence for the Bleak Thread, that.

[Dark Sky]

I may be wrong about that, you can't really imagine such shots slipping past the BBFC, can you.

I can no longer find anything on the 'net talking about what is / isn't on the Vipco's Vaults of Horror DVD I have...apparently Deodato has since authorised a new edit of the film, which again (in the UK) censors the animal killings (with cutaways and deliberate effects overlayed on top of the nastier shots).

On my Vipco DVD I remember the incidental music skipping whenever a shot had been cut out!