Started by tribalfusion, September 18, 2023, 07:03:48 PM
Quote from: Pink Gregory on September 18, 2023, 07:15:59 PMI think the assumption that comedians are by and large left wing is a hangover from alternative comedy that hasn't represented reality for a long time. As always people are motivated by their material conditions and as success in comedy becomes more and more of a competition it probably engenders a certain type of individualism, but then it always has.Also I guess because social media is so entwined with promotion we know a lot more about performer's personal politics in sincerity, compared to how they present their on stage persona. This ties in to the Hicks/Carlin axis of 'comedian as fearless truth teller' that is hopefully on the way out.
Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 18, 2023, 07:21:38 PMThere's this on the comedian side but also the way comedy is made has changed a bit, and been shored up by a handful of production/management teams who mostly make panel content.
Quote from: Pink Gregory on September 18, 2023, 07:25:18 PM30 years of a consensus that you've never known the alternative to, as a generational trend.
Quote from: tribalfusion on September 18, 2023, 07:32:06 PMI'm curious to know more about what you have in mind here, if you don't mind fleshing it out a bit.
Quote from: tribalfusion on September 18, 2023, 07:30:01 PMI think the more general point would be that the 'professionalization' of comedy has conservative political implications as well, as it does in almost any arena.
QuoteDiscovery's controlling shareholder, John Malone, via Liberty Global owns the largest stake in ITV, half of Virgin Media as well as Discovery being one of the investors in GB News. Sky is owned by NBC Universal & Channel 5 by Viacom.
Quote from: Pink Gregory on September 18, 2023, 07:41:12 PMWell I would say the majority of working comedians now don't remember a time before Thatcherite/Neoliberal economic consensus, if nothing ever changes there from the day you become aware of the world, you might be inclined to accept that that's simply how the world works and you start looking elsewhere.
Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 18, 2023, 07:41:26 PMFrom the last discussions about Channel 4 being flogged off:Do any of these companies look like they have any interest in doing anything that would be biting to the establishment?
Quote from: tribalfusion on September 18, 2023, 07:48:05 PMOr do you think that those older comedians simply had more contact with some sort of more thoroughgoing left critique or movement from before the dead zone, and it carried over in their own heads?
Quote from: tribalfusion on September 18, 2023, 08:00:18 PMWe both agree that the parent companies generally have no interest in what we're discussing, but we could say similar sorts of things about this and the work that various left-wing filmmakers have done in spite everything when they cared enough to push for it (Elio Petri, Costa Gavras, Ken Loach, John Sayles among others) and even some comics here and there throughout history as well.
Quote from: Pink Gregory on September 18, 2023, 08:00:20 PMMaybe, but I think they maybe would have been getting that from e.g. Alexei Sayle and Ben Elton being influential and breaking out into TV.Then again far more people then who went on to be successful performers had dabblings in early student radicalism and left societies/orgs.
Quote from: Steve Faeces on September 18, 2023, 08:03:35 PMI've seen Tom Mayhew a couple of times and both times been struck that he's probably the only newish comedian I've really seen consistently talk about and be funny about class. I suppose in some way reflective of the background of a lot of standups that more don't.
Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 18, 2023, 08:06:38 PMI think you'd find a lot of those people might struggle today, Loach is going but he does own Sixteen Films himself, but then he got blacklisted for about a decade for making several unbroadcast films about unions colluding with business owners.But cinema is mostly homogenised and unchallening as well now, it was a lot easier to make films in Sayles' day for instance, there's some big names who have been considered reliable who struggle for backing now and they're not even subversive.
Quote from: 13 schoolyards on September 19, 2023, 08:28:50 AMIn recent decades the opportunities for people from less well-off backgrounds to get involved with the arts have decreased fairly severely. if you don't already have money or come from money, you're probably going to have to get a real job and focus on that to pay the bills, rather than being able to spend years honing your stand up skills at open mic gigs and other badly paid venues.If the only people who can afford to get into a low-paying and precarious industry like professional comedy are those who are coming from a background where the system has worked pretty well, you're probably less likely to get stand-ups asking questions about whether the system actually does work
Quote from: Terry Torpid on September 19, 2023, 12:07:58 PMI've never been entirely convinced by the the myth that comedians as a whole are outsiders, underdogs, renegades tweaking the nose of their betters etc. I reckon a lot of the big names, far from being lovable losers on the bottom rung like they want us to believe, were probably more likely the popular show-offs and bullies at school, and it's mostly about punching down. Politically, they're probably superficially on the left like most entertainment figures, in a social way, not an economic way. They'd jump at the chance to do corporate gigs for bankers or arms manufacturers if the price is right.
Quote from: MoreauVasz on September 19, 2023, 10:19:29 AMI remember Lee saying about 10 years ago that there was a divide in stand-up: You had the outsiders who worked to develop their own sensibilities, put out personal material and did gigs at art centres.Then you had the people who put on suits, did gigs at Jongleurs, met the public where they were, and worked every angle until they got a chance to become TV presenters at which point they binned thd stand-up completely.So much of TV comedy can be understood in terms of that first set of comics never getting a look in and only the Jongleurs people getting a shot at TV.Of course, this is 10 years ago and things have moved on... The blokes in suits doing edgelord one-liners are no longer blokes in suits but also Asian women doing jokes about overbearing parents because the landscape is more diverse but you can only be diverse in a certain number of Ways.
Quote from: tribalfusion on September 19, 2023, 03:18:48 PMI often think of investment banker turned comedian Sindhu Vee in the UK context.
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