Elemental (new Pixar fire/water movie)

[mrpupkin]

Can't believe they just called it Cars. Fucking CARS. What's it about, well it's got cars in it mostly so just call it cars shall we. Not even a pun about cars or anything just the word cars.

[A Hat Like That]

I've only seen the first Cars. it's okay, but it's all sex-pest Lasseter's baby, arguably even more than Toy Story was. Luck from Skydance Studios was pushed very hard as a Lasseter executive producer vehicle (lol) but it died on its arse because it was basically shit.

anyway in Cars 2 there is a Car Pope inside a larger Popemobile which implies a car Jesus as well the Jeep implies a car Hitler.

Catholic church very different in the car universe.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I watched this last night. Not a classic perhaps, but still quite lovely overall. It really is difficult not to ask questions about how the world is supposed to work though - like, is the sea made of dead water-people? Is Firetown being at risk of flooding a metaphor for gentrification or something?

[Mister Six]

I think the flooding is more of a point about white-led (the main water guy is played by a black actor but the character and his family are all New York Upper West Side white liberal-coded) infrastructure ignoring or side-lining non-white communities. In NYC - which the Elemental city is obviously based on - the white-majority areas are also those that get the most tax money for their amenities.

[Terry Torpid]

Catholic church very different in the car universe.

If you want to join the church you need a catholitic converter.

[Tokyo van Ramming]

I watched this last night. Not a classic perhaps, but still quite lovely overall. It really is difficult not to ask questions about how the world is supposed to work though - like, is the sea made of dead water-people? Is Firetown being at risk of flooding a metaphor for gentrification or something?

Forget it Claude, it's Firetown

[idunnosomename]

ooh can i post in this ancient old film I just watched on my own since there's not the red text on the reply box.

I mean it's a decent film. absolutely gorgeous material simulations: perfectly judged in terms of reality versus stylisation (especially the fire), good character animations despite their limitations as being weird blob people.

but I find the Pixar template predictable, emotionally manipulative and increasingly tiresome. WORLD-BUILDING VISTAS!!! THE PROTAGNIST'S MOTIVATION!! AHHH: TICKING CLOCK!!! FRIENDSHIP MONTAGE!!! DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL!!! THE FINAL BATTLE!!! THE HERO'S SACRIFICE??? HAPPILY EVER AFTER! They know they're doing this, and that it's not great to sacrifice original storytelling for the same fucking beats. I know, children's films, but where else can I watch animation this good huh. they could do both.

Story complaints. There was a lot of TELL not SHOW in the relationship between Ember and Wade. Sometimes Wade came off as a bit pushy in the whole thing and I'm not really sure who he is and why Ember should love him. I mean, he's a nice guy? He was a total jobsworth cunt at the start that got quickly glossed over. Doesn't set him up well as a person he'd record on infringements so quickly even if the plot needed him to.
The whole Major Threat of the watergate wasn't explained. That a random civilian should work with some drippy clipboard dickhead to temporarily seal it, just because said drippy clipboard dickhead had pissed off some contractors was very weak. I can't help but think how this wilful negligence that was endangering lives in an immigrant suburb being ignored by racist bureaucrats who don't care. but aww big racist cloud lady likes earth guy we met for like a minute. and at the end of the day arent we all a bit racist

WHY DID THE FIRE PLACE HAVE PLUMBING ANYWAY??! IF HE RENOVATED IT TO HIS NEEDS WHY DIDNT HE TAKE IT ALL OUT SINCE THEY CLEARLY DONT NEED IT

Kernkraft 400 though! couldn't believe when that came on. and the best gag was when they were in the photo booth and all the photos came out over-exposed, also a bonus it paid off a plot point that her mother could tell she was with someone but not what they looked like.

anyway next Pixar movie is another blob person movie, Inside Out 2. cant wait for another TICKING CLOCK!!! ONE LITTLE VICTORY!!! DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL!!! sigh. I just wish Pixar would have the balls to do something as mundane as Ghibli's Only Yesterday. Turning Red's about as close as we're going to get, I think, and that ends with a kaiju-sized red panda at a pop concert.

[Mister Six]

WORLD-BUILDING VISTAS!!! THE PROTAGNIST'S MOTIVATION!! AHHH: TICKING CLOCK!!! FRIENDSHIP MONTAGE!!! DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL!!! THE FINAL BATTLE!!! THE HERO'S SACRIFICE??? HAPPILY EVER AFTER!

That's mostly just the three-act structure though. You'll see it in one form or another in pretty much every mainstream film.

I suppose it's a little more obvious in Pixar flicks because their reliance on weird and wonderful worlds means spelling out the human elements a bit more clearly.

[idunnosomename]

Indeed, because it works, I get that, but it seemed incredibly opaque in this, where I just kept doing the Leonardo DiCaprio point at every one.

I'd actually prefer it without the watergate Big Threat, make it a slightly smaller stakes story (I quite like it was kept fairly small between the two families at most, the city hall staff a little bit, but no Big Villain with a blue laser who wants to kill everyone who ever existed etc), especially since there was no pay off why the watergate was breaking in the first place and nobody in the city admin cared. even if they weren't people made of fire, the amount of water that bust in was very dangerous. eh. i think if you build a world like this you should try and explain things a bit more.

[Mister Six]

The city doesn't care because the city is run mostly by water people (ie. whites) and the fire people (Asians, most likely Chinese) are ghettoised and ignored. As happens in real life, especially in America, where the perception of race is entirely based around a black/white dichotomy.

Bear in mind that right now, New York City (the very obvious inspiration for Elemental's city) is building a massive jail in the heart of Manhattan's Chinatown to take some of the population of the infamous Rikers Island jail, which is being shuttered. When I say "in the heart of", I mean literally right next to apartments, restaurants, bakeries and other community essentials. There's been an outcry from locals, of course, but black mayor Eric Adams, despite claiming he would shutter it during his campaign, has given the nod for it to continue.

[madhair60]

Why does it matter that he's black?

I'm not trying to accuse you of racism, I think I've genuinely missed the point as it relates to perception of race.

[Mister Six]

Why does it matter that he's black?

I'm not trying to accuse you of racism, I think I've genuinely missed the point as it relates to perception of race.

Because of the sidelining of Asian identity and communities by both black and white groups, which are (as I said) the two dominant racial groups in - really the only two racial groups recognised by -  American society as a whole.

There are occasional flare-ups of horrible violence directed at certain other groups that get them some acknowledgement for a bit - there was a lot of prejudice against Middle Eastern and South Asian people in the wake of 9/11, for example, but then they were basically forgotten about, and for a bit in the height of the pandemic it was East Asians, but in America racial issues are generally assumed to fall along a white/black divide, and others, Asians in particular, are sidelined. There's a pretty good book, Interior Chinatown, that explores this. I think it's being adapted for TV too.

White and black politicians alike can build a big fuck-off prison in Chinatown because it won't upset their voter bases. Because, generally, nobody cares about Asians. I think Chinatown is the only sub-Harlem area of Manhattan they'd dare try that in (EDIT: in fact the only bit of Manhattan - the other three are being built in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn. They wouldn't build this jail in any of the white areas of Manhattan below 110th St - which is most of them, of course - and they didn't build it in black-majority Harlem either).

So as it pertains to Elemental, it isn't totally unbelievable that the city wouldn't give a toss about infrastructural degradation in what is effectively the Asian part of town, because Fire people (as the latest set of migrants, which is presumably a reference to the US act that restricted Chinese immigration for a long time) are mostly overlooked culturally and socially.

[Mister Six]

(Double post cunt.)

[madhair60]

Thanks for elucidating

[Mister Six]

No worries!

Of course, I am also a massive racist.

[idunnosomename]

all I'm saying is that Gale cloudlady sportsfan should be charged with criminal negligence for approving the ad-hoc civilian repair to the water gate that caused a major incident in Firetown that very nearly caused a fatality, and lots of property damage. just because she entered into her own inter-elemental relationship doesn't absolve that!

Although there's no surprise bad guy doesn't mean there's no villain in this film, and of course it's racist bureaucracy. yet all of its agents get away scott-free, and the initial limited-animation credit sequences imply everything is solved. when it clearly isn't. element city is still fucking racist

[Mister Six]

Aye, that's fair enough.

The message that all you need to do as a minority to reach your dreams is start dating a rich white person whose mum is connected in your chosen profession is dubious as well.