Boris Johnson - Time Running out?

[Dr Rock]

It's an extreme angle, but it's actually a wall on the left with the bookcases, then a window (with curtains) right in the corner with the back wall with the Thatcher portrait. Those are curtains you can see.

Bin bag over a camera.

[Harry Badger]

Bin bag over the smoke alarm so he can't set it off like he did at St Thomas's

[TrenterPercenter]

I can only speak from personal experience, but If id have got the old bengal lancer now, rather than in 2009, id be dead, or at least the treatment after my operation may not have been to the standards it was then

The amount of polices and changes put in place under the first five years or so of the last Labour government changed a lot of peoples lives for the good, Surestart was amazing and improved communities and family lives which had been battered by nearly two decades of Tory policies

Thanks Jarrow Monkey and good health to you!

I've worked directly for the NHS since 2009; prior working very closely to it in the department of work and pensions; I've lived and seen what the Tories have done and know even after how shit New Labour were (I literally took them to tribunal and lost my home over it because I refused to behave in the way they wanted me to in their final few years of office) and overall they were never as bad the Tories, nor do I think they haven't learnt from this or that there wasn't massive discontent with the way NL were going and why Blair was ousted; but hey what do I know.

[Old Nehamkin]

Let all just dance into oblivion together.  It's done. Over.  My pragmatic brain now says we should at least stop fucking moaning about it then; just fuck everything off who fucking cares about anyone or anything else; let's revel in this completely apathetic cynical view and at least enjoy that; no more worrying about things getting better just shite, unavoidable incontestable shite that you don't ever have to worry about because it's already done.  Let's just do that instead.

I'm not apathetic or cynical or even devoid of hope for the future. I just no longer believe that the people who run the Labour party are either willing or capable of doing anything to tangibly change the course that the UK has been on for the last 40 years or even to enact the very meagre and insubstantial levels of public re-investment the party eeked out during its last term in government.

I think that the party establishment have absorbed and assimilated the premises of conservative economic dogma so thoroughly and compliantly while hardening their position further and further against the faintest form of redistributive policy, that, yes, I do think that there is little functional difference left between them and the tories. If you think that's blinkered or whatever then fair enough, but it's how I feel and I was sincere in being curious about the kind of material changes people expect to result from a Labour government in the 2020s. I certainly don't want to drag anyone into a nihilistic death spiral or whatever it is you're getting at.

[Paul Calf]

The pace of the new NHS privatisation moves would be at very least slowed if not stopped...

Is that the same NHS that's still saddled with massive PFI debt courtesy of the last Labour government?

[TrenterPercenter]

I think that the labour establishment have absorbed and assimilated the premises of conservative economic dogma so thoroughly and compliantly while hardening their position further and further against the faintest form of redistributive policy, that, yes, I do think that there is little functional difference left between them and the tories. If you think that's blinkered or whatever then fair enough, but it's how I feel and I was sincere in being curious about the kind of material changes people expect to result from a Labour government in the 2020s.

There is more than a "little functioning difference" between the two parties; you are not looking at the whole picture; not even the fact that as political party regardless of who is in charge; the Labour Party as has been shown recently is much more likely to be captured by or influenced by leftwing interests.  How the parties vote, elect and decide on policy are completely different but you don't seem interested in this.  Also you asked a question about what material benefits would there be I've given you some realistic ones and you just said you didn't believe it.

Well there isn't much else to say really; this is question of your faith; I'm not dealing with faith I think it's quite obvious that a party with at least some leftwing influence is better than a party that has none and is populated by private interests that seek to control the country for the benefit of a few rich people.  It's an irrational conversation as far as I can see; that doesn't mean there isn't problems with the Labour Party or that some of your concerns aren't true, we've all witnessed this, but when it gets to the stage that you can't see any benefit from changing or getting rid of the Tories despite all the evidence that is against that notion (and that notion not that everything would be perfect) then this is something very different.

[TrenterPercenter]

Is that the same NHS that's still saddled with massive PFI debt courtesy of the last Labour government?

Yes. So I guess now that this has happened in the past Labour should never be in power again?

I find it so weird it's like you want someone to be an apologist for Labour so you can all boo and hiss at it; imo this is an emotional, psychological mindset that comes with surrounding yourselves with lots of depressing anger inducing shite it's fantastically useful to the establishment (and getting the coin into a few YouTube channels) - and you don't have to tell me about it I have a virtual communist dad and leftwing labour family that have been doing the same thing for years. I was raised on the same arguments about the Welsh wind-bag and the betrayal of Michael Foot.  This isn't anything new.

Labour have been shit for 40 years; they are not my politics, I'm a Marxist to the left of Noam Chomsky but I'm not an idiot that can't see it's more beneficial to the politics I desire to not constantly have the Tories in power.

[JarrowMonkey]

Is that the same NHS that's still saddled with massive PFI debt courtesy of the last Labour government?

Yes it, its the same Labour party that never had ambulances queuing up outside of hospitals on a regular basis, or staff wanting to leave in droves, or hour waiting times for ambulances to arrive, but still, Kieth, eh?

[Zetetic]

Yes it, its the same Labour party that never had ambulances queuing up outside of hospitals on a regular basis, or staff wanting to leave in droves, or hour waiting times for ambulances to arrive

:|

[JarrowMonkey]

:|

I don't understand your reply, sorry

Thanks Jarrow Monkey and good health to you!

I've worked directly for the NHS since 2009; prior working very closely to it in the department of work and pensions; I've lived and seen what the Tories have done and know even after how shit New Labour were (I literally took them to tribunal and lost my home over it because I refused to behave in the way they wanted me to in their final few years of office) and overall they were never as bad the Tories, nor do I think they haven't learnt from this or that there wasn't massive discontent with the way NL were going and why Blair was ousted; but hey what do I know.

I'm sorry to hear that, likewise New Labour did some abysmal stuff, myself I had to go to a back to work assessment in June 2010, about three months after having major surgery, it was a sham the bloke doing knew nowt about what my operation and condition involved, and my benefits were stopped straight away, luckily I got a job a few days later, but after all of this I could never vote Tory, they've always opposed idea of the NHS, they don't give a fuck about mental health care or in fact anything from what I can see, and anyone who doesn't earn t top coin and votes for them needs their bumps felt

[ZoyzaSorris]

Well you have to admire the optimistic naivety (or alternatively paul mason-esque delusion) anyway. Kind of. Only thing I can see being a silver lining of any putative Keith victory is that it'd almost certainly be best case scenario a hung parliament relying on the SCG and SNP playing ball. Keith's goons with a free reign majority I find as just as an unappealing prospect as what we have now if not more so. Dangerous and cultish lot.

[Paul Calf]

In 2001, a close friend of mine committed suicide after years of pressure, repeatedly having to submit herself to humiliating interviews, assessments and examinations picking her life apart in the minutest and most intimate detail. Thousands of others were under the same pressure so you'll forgive me if I don't share your rosy view of the DofH during the peak of the last Labour government.

[Zetetic]

I don't understand your reply, sorry.

All the things you've listed are happening right now, under a Labour government, in Britain.

(Yes, a large part of the cause of this are English policies over the last decade.)

[imitationleather]

I can feel we've got a fun couple of years of being lectured about how it's our fault if Labour don't win.

[Goldentony]

if that becomes the standard argument like how Corbyn has lived on in irrelevant streaks of shit blue ticks then I woint have an issue going round to peoples houses and fucking them to death I reckon, if we get a full set of conserative rule between my 20s to 40s after watching everything melt and people turn selfish as a form of survival then I reckon when Labour lose, and they asolutely will because they're fucking useless, I will go round to peoples houses and shag them up the arse like Rocco Siffredi just to put the truth of reality into their world

[Blue Jam]

Omishambles

[TrenterPercenter]

In 2001, a close friend of mine committed suicide after years of pressure, repeatedly having to submit herself to humiliating interviews, assessments and examinations picking her life apart in the minutest and most intimate detail. Thousands of others were under the same pressure so you'll forgive me if I don't share your rosy view of the DofH during the peak of the last Labour government.

I'm sorry for your loss.  I also had friends that have committed suicide; including my supervisor who worked trying to help people like your friend.  If you read what I said I took them to tribunal over their treatment of vulnerable people on benefits; I worked helping people with severe disabilities and was rendered homeless when I told them point blank I would not approve sanctioning.  I was hauled into my office once because I sent a dying man home and told him not to come back until they had operated on his cancerous lung; I've got countless stories that would make your toes curl; I lived it; it caused me to fall ill myself. 

I'm not painting a rosy picture of it am I.

[Paul Calf]

if that becomes the standard argument like how Corbyn has lived on in irrelevant streaks of shit blue ticks then I woint have an issue going round to peoples houses and fucking them to death I reckon, if we get a full set of conserative rule between my 20s to 40s after watching everything melt and people turn selfish as a form of survival then I reckon when Labour lose, and they asolutely will because they're fucking useless, I will go round to peoples houses and shag them up the arse like Rocco Siffredi just to put the truth of reality into their world

You should definitely live-stream that.

[imitationleather]

Omishambles

Pete Doherty considers rewrite everything

[Johnny Yesno]

I agree with you Trenter, although I think you're overreacting.

Edit: Or maybe you're not. I was responding to that 'dance into oblivion' post but your subsequent posts suggest otherwise.

Put simply:

[TrenterPercenter]

I can feel we've got a fun couple of years of being lectured about how it's our fault if Labour don't win.

Not from me you won't. I think that is exactly what you'd like though.

I don't agree that a Labour government at the next election is worse than another Tory one; this is seems so utterly obvious and counter to reason that I don't know why anyone, other than Tories, would seek to sustain that idea.  I mean if you want Labour extinguished due to how bad they are you should be advocating voting Tory that would at least make sense.

[imitationleather]

I think that is exactly what you'd like though.

Nope, it really isn't.

[Goldentony]

a Labour government at the next elction qwould be great purely to not have tories in but youve then got to contend with people who believe in the power of jesus christ and people who look at cops shooting an unarmed innocent man in the face at point blank range on the tube and thinking "I as the director of public prosecutions cannot see an issue here"

[Johnny Yesno]

Wont spooking people about a Labour/SNP coalition be enough for basically any tory leader to win the next election?

What, after the tory/DUP coalition of chaos? Kieth should, in theory, be able to hammer them with this but, of course, that would mean reminding everyone that the tories didn't win the 2017 GE outright against Corbyn-led Labour.

[TrenterPercenter]

Nope, it really isn't.

Well it seems to be on your mind; hadn't crossed mine for a second.

[Pink Gregory]

I'm terrified of what Kieth would happily embrace to keep flighty theoretical 'red wall' voters on side, or to keep business on side.

[Johnny Yesno]

I'm terrified of what Kieth would happily embrace to keep flighty theoretical 'red wall' voters on side, or to keep business on side.

Same, but I'm even more terrified of what unashamedly tory Peter Oborne calls a far right sect.

Kieth and co have got us over a barrel for now and I don't like it any more than you.

[Funcrusher]

An anti Brexit centrist dad type channel I occasionally watch on You Tube has pointed out today that Johnson claimed in Parliament that he didn't know if the party he has now been shown to have virtually attended took place, so he has therefore lied to Parliament. Are Labour pursuing this?

[chveik]

I can feel we've got a fun couple of years of being lectured about how it's our fault if Labour don't win.

the most basic material analysis shows time and time again that electoralism is a dead end. for instance the Biden presidency is a great example of what liberals actually stand for in a moment of great crisis and that their difference with fascists is pretty much nominal.

[TheBrownBottle]

I have tried, but it is truly difficult to imagine liberals being responsible for the Holocaust.  It is almost as if there is a moral difference between liberalism and fascism.