Thor: Love and Thunder

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

that argument has already been dismissed as stupid in a previous thread...


...stupid

Not by me. And I am best at films.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I blinking well loved it. 4 hours would obviously be a bit much, but I could have happily watched more. I'm the one weirdo that actually liked the first two Thor films and thought that Ragnarok was rather overrated as a result. All the reviews (or headlines) I'd seen made this sound like Ragnarok turned up to 11, but I thought it was a great improvement on that. Mostly because it wasn't afraid to let the emotional moments stand - most of the time, anyway...

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet but I'm 100% with you Claude, enjoyed the first two, felt disappointed by the third, and almost didn't see this as the reviews were so mixed, but it was so hot yesterday I decided to hide in an air conditioned cinema. So glad I did, this was just a big bag of old stupid fun, from the screaming goats to Russell Crowe's ridiculously over the top Zeus, plus at the end it features children going psycho and slicing up the monsters, which made me laugh hard. I loved all the Jane Foster stuff, Chris Hemsworth was fantastic as ever, and Bale was a great villain, sure, if I could comment on some bits which didn't quite work or could have been better, but I can't be arsed as I doubt I'll change anyone's mind. 8.1/10

[checkoutgirl]

from the screaming goats to Russell Crowe's ridiculously over the top Zeus

I'm really not sure about this. The goats were annoying and Russell Crowe was a complete joke of a character. Marvel are known for making sure there is 17.5% humour in all their films but I think the dial went a bit too far in this one. Zeus was a complete arse. The accent and whole set up was based on the pope and the vatican. I'm not sure where they were going making the god of all gods a completely bumbling, cowardly idiot.

The finale was just a stupid sword fight and the kids empowered bit was a blatant Shazam rip off. I didn't leave the cinema angry or anything, just a bit disappointed that this was the best option to see at that time.

Positives would be Bale and not much else. The representation of the cosmic entity Eternity was sort of interesting. They are the one Marvel thing I find fascinating.

In the film Infinity War, Thanos kills half of living things because of some greenpeace bullshit about natural resources. The comic is way more interesting because Thanos kills everyone to impress the cosmic entity Death because he's obsessed with her.

They should have more cosmic entities in the Marvel films because the ideas around them are mad and have nothing to do with reality, which is what comics are all about.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet but I'm 100% with you Claude

It seems we are in the minority (despite being totally correct). Even the people that enjoyed it seem mostly to think it was a disappointing follow up to Ragnarok. Then you've got the ones (freaks) calling it a massive car crash of a film.

I saw it a second time and still enjoyed it immensely, but my complaint about Gorr being underwritten still stands. It was crap timing, this coming out on the heels of Doctor Strange in yer MoM, what with both films' villains being corrupted by some evil artefact. At least in DS2, the baddie's motivation is consistent and the bad thing is only making them more ruthless about it. Gorr's grudge is perfectly understandable... against his god. Once that one is slain, Gorr essentially cedes the role of antagonist to the sword. It's not until his final scene that anyone really offers a counterargument to his deicidal quest.

[Small Man Big Horse]

They should have more cosmic entities in the Marvel films because the ideas around them are mad and have nothing to do with reality, which is what comics are all about.

I get where you're coming from, I'm three volumes in to Jane Foster's The Mighty Thor run and really wish we could have seen more of her character in the film, (

Spoiler alert

or even let her live until the end of the fifth

[close]

), but all I can say is that I was impressed with the madness we did get (Thor visiting Zeus and all of that idiocy entertained me no end and I thought visually it was beautiful), and the humour worked for me too, I know it's a cliche but I don't think there's anything either one of us could say that would change the opinion of the other in this case.

It seems we are in the minority (despite being totally correct). Even the people that enjoyed it seem mostly to think it was a disappointing follow up to Ragnarok. Then you've got the ones (freaks) calling it a massive car crash of a film.

Calling it a car crash of a film is madness, I do get that going in with very low expectations probably helped, and in the months leading up to the film I read in some comments sections (mainly the AV Club, admittedly) posts from people whose expectations were so high that they all but expected Waititi to create the greatest film ever made, so a backlash feels a bit inevitable now.

I saw it a second time and still enjoyed it immensely, but my complaint about Gorr being underwritten still stands. It was crap timing, this coming out on the heels of Doctor Strange in yer MoM, what with both films' villains being corrupted by some evil artefact. At least in DS2, the baddie's motivation is consistent and the bad thing is only making them more ruthless about it. Gorr's grudge is perfectly understandable... against his god. Once that one is slain, Gorr essentially cedes the role of antagonist to the sword. It's not until his final scene that anyone really offers a counterargument to his deicidal quest.

I absolutely agree with you there, there's some minor throwaway lines about Gorr being infected the moment he picked up the sword and that's why he's so evil, but I think the film would have benefitted if his character had been given more depth.

[Shaky]

I was quite bored by this, and stuff that would've had me internally punching the air only a couple of years ago just felt underwhelming.

My girlfriend, who has barely seen any Marvel, summed it up well when she said, "Are we supposed to feel actual emotions about all that?"

[madhair60]

i might go and see this on Friday wish me luck

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Good luck or bad luck?

[Goldentony]

forgot there was a dedicated Thor thread and ended up posting in the PHASES thread. Take every single shred of attempt at humour out of this, thus removing the cunt made of rocks and most of the

Spoiler alert

Zeus

[close]

crap entirely and this would be way better. Mabe add new jokes if you want, I dont know, redub rock man with lines from Cassavetes films or whatever, but the jokes in it at the minute are liquid shit

[madhair60]

decided I'll find something else to do

[Famous Mortimer]

I just watched it, and it's fine. Lots of funny bits in it, lots of great characters, and I thought Gorr was interesting too.

Agreed about the "evil artifact corrupts" synergy between this and Dr Strange being perhaps unfortunate, especially with an entity as carefully managed as the MCU.

A bit of pondering about the god thing, too - Thor and his friends are fighting to defend a crappy system, where gods by and large do fuck all. And...there are all sorts of "alien" gods in the big city, yet Zeus (who's not had a worshipper in two thousand years or so, and at his biggest didn't have that many) is the boss of them all? Also, what about the service staff in this city? Are they just spending an eternity fanning Zeus?

I'm not going to pick too many nits, as like I said I enjoyed it just fine. I much preferred Ragnarok, though, which told a more fun story in a better way.

[phantom_power]

Are they defending a crappy system or just trying to save some kids? I can't remember the details but I think they don't necessarily endorse the gods, just don't think they should be killed. And "gods" is a pretty broad term in the MCU I think

[dissolute ocelot]

I was quite bored by this, and stuff that would've had me internally punching the air only a couple of years ago just felt underwhelming.

My girlfriend, who has barely seen any Marvel, summed it up well when she said, "Are we supposed to feel actual emotions about all that?"

I enjoyed it but any tragedy or sadness completely passed me by. Definitely hollywood cancer, not real cancer. It's just a series of plot contrivances for jokes and silly stuff, which is fine. It's got goats in it, everyone likes goats.

It did need more Kat Dennings. Although Tessa Thompson is now ruined for me thanks to the Direct Line adverts: amazing going from Sorry To Bother You to promoting terrible insurance products.

[SteveDave]

I thought this was OK. I enjoyed the small planet they had the black and white fight on. That was the best looking sequence of the whole film.

Has Christ Bale ever done comedy? Some of his timing in this was incredible. Let him do a film with Shane Black where he plays some kind of detective in the 1980s. At Christmas.

[phantom_power]

Has Christ Bale ever done comedy? Some of his timing in this was incredible

He is surprisingly funny in that Ford V Ferrari film.

[dead-ced-dead]

I thought this was OK. I enjoyed the small planet they had the black and white fight on. That was the best looking sequence of the whole film.

Has Christ Bale ever done comedy? Some of his timing in this was incredible. Let him do a film with Shane Black where he plays some kind of detective in the 1980s. At Christmas.

Bale is one of those cases where his reputation as Mr-Serious-Methody-Actor precedes him so much that few directors will give him the chance to be funny, and when they do it's only in the context of a superhero film or serious Oscar bait film.

Someone needs to give him a full on comedy or something next to someone who is totally associated with comedy. Like when Jeff Daniels was paired with Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber. No one in 1994 thought that would be a good idea, including Jeff's agent. Time makes fools of us all.

[jobotic]

I liked this bit

[Famous Mortimer]

Are they defending a crappy system or just trying to save some kids? I can't remember the details but I think they don't necessarily endorse the gods, just don't think they should be killed. And "gods" is a pretty broad term in the MCU I think

You make a good point. It felt like it was handwaved away at the end, Thor and Gorr could have sympathised over how useless gods were, and it seemed rather perfectly set up for something like that...maybe they did say something and I missed it.

[Dr Rock]

I'm not sure, but the Gods are all hiding - does the place belong to Zeus, and that's why he's seems to be top dog there?

[Goldentony]

they could have expanded on that but they had to have him dance and play a flute with his arse and stuff

[Goldentony]

isssa spicy meat-a-ball thor, you like! my wife!

[The Culture Bunker]

And...there are all sorts of "alien" gods in the big city, yet Zeus (who's not had a worshipper in two thousand years or so, and at his biggest didn't have that many) is the boss of them all?

I explained that in my own head that he must have went off to some other world to find new worshippers when the Greeks sacked him off. The god in the oasis at the start was suggesting that was what he was going to do, given nearly all the ones on Gorr's planet had died off.

[phantom_power]

I took it that the gods with Zeus were all the shit gods hiding from Gorr, which is why they seem useless. I am not sure a film this lightweight bears too much analysis though

[Ham Bap]

Thought this was very average. Not good, not funny when it was trying to be. Maybe dont give Taika Waititi free rein to do what he wants. It was like a run of the mill average action film that might have come out in the mid 90s.

Also, someone I closely work with was diagnosed with cancer so I sat thinking about that the whole time because of the film.

Maybe these films are meant for me anymore, Im 42, which is fine. Fine that they're not for me, not fine that im 42.

Though my son didnt enjoy it either, he's 9 (27).

[Famous Mortimer]

I took it that the gods with Zeus were all the shit gods hiding from Gorr, which is why they seem useless. I am not sure a film this lightweight bears too much analysis though

It really wasn't that deep an analysis, it was just a thought which wandered through my mind as I was watching it. I mean, I rather liked Crowe's Greek-Australian thing, so I'm not opposed to having him do a cameo, but it would have been nice if they'd spent, say, a dinner one evening going over things like this which might have benefited from an extra line of dialogue or an explainer scene.

Having had a quick look at Box Office Mojo (is that what people are still using? No idea) it looks like it made a decent chunk of change, but I hope this is the end for the Thor series. Asgard - fun. New Asgard - boring fishing village. Loki - fun. Valkyrie and Korg - not as much.

[Alberon]

It was okay. The attempts at comedy were over the top and made the fatal mistake of stumbling over into parody.

There's nothing wrong with the former but the latter must always be avoided in these sort of film series. Look at the difference between Star Treks 4 and 5 for instance. 

Thor 5 (and there will be a Thor 5) needs to go in a different direction.

[Magnum Valentino]

Am I misremembering that in Godbomb, Gorr creates a projection of his son that basically tells him once he kills all the gods there'll still be one left (him) and he has to kill his "son" (again)? As that was far, FAR more interesting than the 'make a wish' pursuit of this film. Bale was brilliant in it though, really wish they'd committed to making a horror film with him in it.

Fuck the Guns N Roses thing was grating though. Bit of a sickening film, indulgent, frequently amusing but ultimately a bit of a sore head. I think this is the best Marvel can manage, now the expectations are established and the fanbase appeasement so high on the agenda.

[Dr Rock]

Comparing it to Marvel comics, a 'goofy issue' is often very popular. But usually it's a one-off and the previous tone returns. I think Taika's mistake was doing two wacky ones in a row.

[Goldentony]

The GNR stuff was fucking terrible, the November Rain outro for the finale was the highlight of all that fucking mistake shite. Inserted in wherever they like because they can so everyone can go IMMIGRANT SONG REACTION VIDEO again.

[Fry]

I couldn't finish this, I found it all intensely annoying. Felt like the cinematic version of one of these YouTube videos: