Steadily goaded

[Saucer51]

Oh, stop taking the piss. We all have an idea what is "welcoming" body language, surely? None of you males on here ever been given a come hither look and thought blimey i'm in here? Even if you were completely wrong, you still made an assumption according to body language and eye contact.

[rudi]

As has been said, though, why should he make the running? It's such an hilariously out-dated idea I'm genuinely bemused by it.

[Ginyard]

Oh, stop taking the piss. We all have an idea what is "welcoming" body language, surely? None of you males on here ever been given a come hither look and thought blimey i'm in here? Even if you were completely wrong, you still made an assumption according to body language and eye contact.

I'll admit, I've often wondered why they're drooling and their pupils are dilated, but I've always assumed that was the effect of the drugs. Otherwise, no. With women I barely know I'm rather lost as to their intentions unless its outright blatant compliments, touching etc. A coy smile at the door would simply say 'see ya' to my simple brain.

[rudi]

I wouldn't even be so bold as to assume, when a woman asks if I'd like to go out for a drink, that she's suggesting anything more than going out. For a drink.

[Milo]

None of you males on here ever been given a come hither look

Nope. *sob*

EDIT: or, to get back to topic, if I have then I haven't spotted it. Take a photo of it.

[Mr Colossal]

Not mean so much as hypocritical. There's no point casting aspersions about his reasons for not making a move on you if you're not prepared to make a move yourself. Either make the move or forget about him, no point waiting for him to do it and getting all perplexed when he doesn't. Maybe he likes his women to have confidence and is thinking the same thing as you?

Besides, it might not be a confidence issue, he may just not have read the signs you think you're giving him. You won't find out unless you ask him, but to not even broach the subject and then make all kinds of conclusions about his character based on what he's NOT said seems bizarre.

I think there are just people who like to be in control and others who like to lead, and it can be as deep-set  as to actually make some people feel actually repulsed or evoke 'fight or flight' type reactions in some people if it isnt to their particular leanign.   Personally, I like a bit of subtlety myself and ive been put off when someone I was previously intrigued by has made some really smug forward gesture which would have made something that im sure would have happened interestingly left to its own devices turn into some kind of woodenly contrived, instructional affair- in the same way you hate having to repeat a joke somebody who missed it off the cuff or  hasnt understood.  It feels tedious and takes all the energy that went into it out.   Ive known women who despite seemingly displaying and responding to all the usual signs and cues of attration physcially, seemed to in fact be 'socially stunted' in some way like this was just their normal state of being and they verbally needed everything spelt out or sign posted to them and needed to hear it in words before it would register, and ive heard plenty of women literally state some pithy facebook/womens magazine mantra like 'we hurt the ones who adore us and  chase the ones who ignore us'  as an an excuse not to respond to the advances of somebody whos asked them out.



If you genuinely feel having to take the role of the active persuer in a situation would take anything personally rewarding out of it, theres not a lot you can do.  But perhaps he is just shy  or private,  and actually withdraws under the watchful eye of friends and peer pressure, or is either unaware of the signs  which you feel are 'cast iron'  or fears rejection...  Are there any methods of more personal communication like facebook or text messages/e-mails that you could establish contact on without being too 'obvious' and see if he's any different or comes out of his shell when he perhaps feels there is no audience or outside instrusion?  one of   the most obvious sign you get as a single male is somebody casually dropping that they're not doing anything that night,  but its interesting just how many men enterpret that as an actual brush off rather than a RESCUE ME KIND SIR!  but then again theres some women that adhere to some rediculous womens magazine 'dating rules' who'll do that and just fuck  you off for overstepping some sort of line which is supposed to resemble 'value. '  so you cant blame people for being mixed up and sometimes have to be a little more flexible than this 'square pegs and round holes' one-size-fits-all approach.

[All Surrogate]

... you're barely going to work up a moist splay, never mind a pasty spumante.

Makes me laugh.

[Little Hoover]

A smile it seems can be two things. If you think a smile is just politeness then you're unable to pick up on obvious signals and if you take a smile to be a come on then it's "she's just being nice, doesn't mean she's interested in you." A polish girl I worked with would not only smile, but wink at me from time to time, but I'm certain this was all just being nice.
So small facial expressions still don't make your intentions that clear.

[rudi]

Have you tried eating a king-sized Kit Kat like that bird off the Flake adverts?

Or pretend to play a full slide on a fake trombone before going "hubba hubba" then pulling that face Les dawson did. Then smile sweetly and leave.

Sexual dynamite, I promise you.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Hold on - have you actually spoken to the guy - just like, general conversation?

If so, couldn't you manipulate things so that you and he find yourself in the same place at the same time away from his mates?  Or "coincidentally" go to the bar when he does?

Or wait until your mutual friend has a wedding, get drunk and get it on.

Those are tactics that have worked on me...

[Ambient Sheep]

It's amusing that men are supposedly infamous for not being able to pick up on nuances, expressions and emotions from women, yet are expected to decipher what is clearly quite a potentially confusing situation. No wonder so many women end up with men they eventually discover are just knuckleheads running on testosterone. They're the ones not worrying about social graces.

Well said, sir.

Oh, stop taking the piss. We all have an idea what is "welcoming" body language, surely?

See the first sentence of the above.

None of you males on here ever been given a come hither look and thought blimey i'm in here?

Ummm...<thinks hard>...only, I think, when I'd already been talking to them for a while, the initial contact having been made via some other means, e.g. being in the same group of people around a pub table, or over a hot pinball machine.  There's come a point in every such successful conversation when it's suddenly become clear to me that they were displaying a real interest in me and what I was saying.  But from across a crowded room?  <thinks again>  Maybe once, in a disco, near the end of 1989.  And even then I wasn't sure about the signal i'd read, although it turned out I was right in the end.

That's just the successful ones, though.  Who knows how many such signals I missed out on, though?  I suspect quite a few, looking back on my teens & twenties with my mid-40s eyes, but even now I've probably missed some of those that I don't even remember.

And this is from a man with an empathy score of 54 (although I'm a little sceptical about exactly what that score is measuring, as it seems to be conflating two or more qualities within one quiz).

Hold on - have you actually spoken to the guy - just like, general conversation?

If so, couldn't you manipulate things so that you and he find yourself in the same place at the same time away from his mates?  Or "coincidentally" go to the bar when he does?

This sounds like your best bet, Saucer.

[ThickAndCreamy]

You need to realise just how hard it can be to judge if someone is interested or not just from a smile / eye contact etc.

Although I'm a dunce for this, I've had people essentially saying to me to go on a date with them before and still believing their not interested in me. I'm not always a coward (I am a coward though, obviously) just incredibly thick at reading body language as mine is so blasé and my actions subversively flirty at times even to people I'm not interested in.

_{Fuck me I need a drink, all this talk has made me realise I haven't even been close to getting anything like a girlfriend in far too long.}

[Sovereign]

Why don't you make a move on him?  Why does he have to come to you?  Take control of the situation, then you'll know either way.

^^ This.

It's tragic really, I didn't have the confidence to approach women as often as i would've liked until I was like 17, and I wasn't smart or perceptive enough to be able to tell properly if a woman fancied me until I was like, 20. Prior to that, any romantic engagements I had were the product of dumb luck, or naive persistence in a few cases. But thinking about it, there must've been a fair few women who did fancy me, and who probably were trying to give me hints, that I was just too yong and daft to pick up on. Dont women realize that you're gonna let people slip trough your fingers if you don't try and meet us half way with this? I mean, you lose out too if a certain guy you like is oblivious to your advances, you can't just leave it on this anachronistic convention that men have to persue and women simply have to sit back and choose whilst their suitors line up and make themselves available, it's a little more complex than that.

Anyone, just grip him, tell him you fancy him, and then leave him to do the rest. You're sorted after that.

[cptwhite]

Buy this http://www.meritline.com/1402-glow-in-the-dark-handle-led-flashlight-pink---p-44127.aspx walk up to him and say "I think you need one of these" then go to the bar.

[Ambient Sheep]

Fuck me, there's a username I haven't seen in a while.  Hello there!

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Fuck me.  Hello there!

Now that's an unmistakable signal.

[alcoholic messiah]

Ummm...<thinks hard>...only, I think, when I'd already been talking to them for a while, the initial contact having been made via some other means, e.g. being in the same group of people around a pub table, or over a hot pinball machine.

"The Accused" is not a suitable film to derive dating tips from.

[Ambient Sheep]

Now that's an unmistakable signal.

:-)  I set 'em up...

"The Accused" is not a suitable film to derive dating tips from.

Hah, I've never seen it, so am not getting the reference.  But it's true, I got two dates out of being chatted up while playing pinball in the back room of my local rock venue.

The first was pretty unmistakeable.  She started talking to me, then, just in case I hadn't got the message (which I kinda had, to be honest, it wasn't often strange girls would come up to me and strike up conversations), she then leaned across the top of the table and turned to gaze into my eyes while still talking.  It was at that point I let my shiny ball-bearing drop through the gate (fnaarr!) and we went from there.  One lacklustre evening at the movies was the only result though, but that was partly because she was going off to university or something and so we couldn't really start anything anyway, and partly because I probably bored her senseless telling her about my crappy past lovelife -- schoolboy error there, even if I was no longer a schoolboy.

The second chat-up was more subtle, apparently I was eyed up at the pinball table (which I missed), but then followed into the downstairs bar, where she sat with me and my group of friends and immediately zeroed in on me as the one she wanted to chat to.  It still took me at least 20 or 30 minutes to realise what was going on, but at the end of the evening we exchanged phone numbers (with the promise that I'd ring her the following Monday to arrange a date); in the event she rang me on the Sunday afternoon and we went out that evening, then again on the Tuesday, after which I never went home, much to my parents' joint surprise and my mother in particular's disgust, and thereby started my first long-term relationship, which lasted eight years or so.

[Icehaven]

I'd imagine most people (of both genders, not just blokes) tend to miss 'I fancy you' signals mainly because they aren't looking for or expecting them. Surely when a person likes another person, they naturally wonder if the object of their affection is interested in them and so are automatically looking for signs that they might. So if they do, it's not as if any signals are being sent to a switched off receiver, as it were.

[confettiinmyhair]

Dead right icehaven. I was idly standing at work and this lady just approached me, got a brief convo going, told me about her planned weekend away to somewhere up North and then more or less said are you single? Which took me completely off guard. I replied yes, and suddenly remembered that the guy I replaced at the company I worked for was sacked for overtly flirting with staff and customers, so numbers weren't exchanged.

[Saucer51]

Although some men I've liked the look of the moment I've seen them, I've never wanted to approach them or them approach me so soon. A man has to get under my skin a little, there has to be a passage of time with more than one sussing-out encounter. I've never been interested in men I've never seen before coming over to me because there's been no mental foreplay. So this man I like at the moment, the mystique has been built up because we just stare and exchange sloppy grins. Or rather, we did. I'm not playing any more. It feels very childish.

[cptwhite]

Hello Sheep, yes I've started browsing casually every now and again.  Unfortunately the whole site is blocked at work given the filth and immoral nature that saturates to it's core.

All grown up since I was last 'ere like...

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I've never been interested in men I've never seen before coming over to me because there's been no mental foreplay.

Isn't that showing confidence though?

[Saucer51]

Isn't that showing confidence though?

But it isn't just confidence for me. It's a main ingredient but not the whole pudding. I'm very hard to please, I know.

[ThickAndCreamy]

You're are very hard to please. Anyone with such a strict set of pointless and out of date, irrational, pre conceived notions in what makes someone good to date or attractive to you is definitely hard to please.

It's not that your strict standards are offensive, more that they're ridiculous and imply that you are overly self important and arrogant.

'If he comes in my vicinity and stares for over 5 seconds at floorboards or touches his hair whilst talking he's a definite no-no'.

[glitch]

Although some men I've liked the look of the moment I've seen them, I've never wanted to approach them or them approach me so soon. A man has to get under my skin a little, there has to be a passage of time with more than one sussing-out encounter. I've never been interested in men I've never seen before coming over to me because there's been no mental foreplay. So this man I like at the moment, the mystique has been built up because we just stare and exchange sloppy grins. Or rather, we did. I'm not playing any more. It feels very childish.

Changing the rules of engagement at this late stage will just confuse the poor chap

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

Unless someone grabs me by the knockers, I can't tell for bollocks if they're interested in me.  It's not cut and dry.  And some people are naturally flirty, and not really interested in anyone, they just like flirting.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

While I've had women invite me to feel their tits who definitely weren't interested.

On another occasion at a house party (it often seems to involve house parties) this woman was incredibly sulky and then stormed off crying- I later discovered she was interested in me and upset because I wasn't doing anything about that. I didn't have the faintest idea. She was very attractive but quite young so I suppose I ruled myself out on both fronts.

So yes, the rules of engagement are utterly, utterly fucked. So I don't bother. Much better to have get talking naturally, maybe out with mutual friends, something like that, and see whether one thing leads to another.

There's no mental or physical reason why approaching a woman doing her own thing in a bar should fill me with dread, it just does. Maybe one day I'll realise that a strangely high percentage of the population actually fancy my arse, and some of those actually want me to approach them off-hand and chat them up.

[Jemble Fred]

There's no point forming any attachment to a woman until you know their opinion on Garth Merenghi's Darkplace. That's why MySpace will always be better than any pub or club.

[Ambient Sheep]

And some people are naturally flirty, and not really interested in anyone, they just like flirting.

Yup, I've fallen foul of that one as well, several times.  And probably both ways too: not only misconstruing flirting for interest, but misconstruing genuine interest as just harmless flirting.

One girl in particular that I made a move on as a result of her flirting, was all "No, I don't like you that way, you're my best mate you are!!"  Oh really?  Well it certainly didn't seem like it, given how she constantly used to touch my arm, giggle at everything I said and give me mucho eye-contact all the time.  The friendzone was nothing strange to me at that time of my life, I virtually lived in it with several female friends, but in this case her flirtatious & cheeky behaviour was so strong that I really thought I'd read it right that time.  Nope, apparently not.

God I wish we'd all had the internet back then.