Derren Brown: Spooky bastard!

[Johnny Yesno]

Did anyone watch the séance last night, then? Did you get any messages from the dead? Did your wardrobe rattle during the ouja board bit?
A car went past our house during the bit where that girl was being a medium - explain that Richard Dawkins.
My favourite bit was the bit with the students behind the curtain - that was very strange.
I reckon Mr Brown makes excellent telly, especially compared to what was on straight after it - that BB Efourum thing. What a complete bunch of filler toss.

[Jemble Fred]

Did you notice, if you pause just at the moment that the cup exploded, you don't see Mr Pipes in the corner of the room shouting 'Drink my lovely bleach!"

Nice touch that. Be honest, this Seance was a very simple trick, the kind of set-up Brown would usually do in two minutes on his show, but very nicely tarted up with backstory and plot? I have come round to liking Derren Brown an awful lot.

[Partridge's Love Child]

Drink my lovely bleach!

Whenever I say that, I get a slapped face.

[Utter Shit]

I love Derren Brown's approach, it's refreshingly unpretentious in comparison to your usual 'occult' shows...it's very much a case of 'look what I can do, isn't it cool!' rather than 'look what I can do, aren't I cool!', if that makes sense...he seems to enjoy sharing these weird things he can do with people, and I love his no-bullshit approach, telling people how he does his stuff. His whole act is basically down to being a fucking awesome psychologist.

[hencole]

. His whole act is basically down to being a fucking awesome psychologist.

Not that I saw this show, but generally he's a very good illusionist or magician and uses the mental stuff as part of his charcter rather than that being the way he does stuff. A lot of it is clever use of logic, plus the odd sleight of hand. He is certainly my favourite magicy person, though I haven't seen any of his stuff recently because it's always on when I'm down the pub.

[mwude]

I was tempted to start a thread about this in Comedy Chat.  It can't have been only me who found some bits laugh out loud funny.  The screaming whilst the spirit was summoned, the six year old voice, the wonderful burst of feedback to really shit up that girl in the room on her own, the phone-in people: "My wardrobe jumped!", that fucking letter "She loved our dad who was a builder and also our cat who was called HARRY"  hehe!

It was presented 'as-live' but I presume it was pre-recorded otherwise how could they instantly claim that all the students "fully understood the nature of the experiment"?  It's amazing how easily manipulated the mind can be, and it seems to become even easier when more people are involved all of them wanting to believe.  However, if one complete & total sceptic like me was involved doesn't that normally tend to bugger these things up?  Making sure the ouija board spells out "biscuits" rather than "Jane" certainly wouldn't help.

I wanted to see their reaction when 'Jane' was introduced to them.  Half of them would probably have believed that Derren had brought her back from the dead.

[Partridge's Love Child]

Agreed.  I like the fact that his attitude towards his work is just to shrug and say that it's just a cheap party trick.  I would like to see a show where he takes all of Uri Geller's tricks and rubbishes them through explanation.  It probably wouldn't make great telly, but I hate that charlatan cunt and his supposed mystical powers.

I didn't see the Seance, because my bird's easily spooked and didn't like the look of it, but Brown's going terribly egg-head on top, isn't he.

[TotalNightmare]

it was a shame that they didnt save something like this for halloween where the fun of the event would be more blatant...

Unless he has something better lined up for October?

Made me think though, i wonder if you could apply his mind tricks to making a horror movie... an old haunted house tale, but with Darren supplying the tricks for the audience?

Hmmmmmm.

[zozman]

very good telly our Mr Brown makes.  You tend to be watching it trying to figure out how he does it though, but I suppose you do that with any magic show.  You could tell how he got them to select the same person (Jane wasn't it?) but some of his other stuff was very impressive, and as he says, combines traditional magic techniques (stuff flying around) with psychology and logic.

Clever bastard.  Now (as I'm sure everyone wants to know) could someone please explain how I can do it so I can get women to sleep with me.




Not really if you're reading this Mrs zozman

[Ambient Sheep]

In case anyone hasn't seen this on the BB thread

The latest Fortean Times has a very interesting interview with Brown, in which he talks to some degree about his techniques. He is at pains to point out that he doesn't believe in "new age crystal" nonsense and is keen to avoid the psychic angle.  It's clear he doesn't believe in any of it, or Uri Geller, and that his techniques are all psychological, but is too canny to say so directly.  A good article and one that improved my image of him somewhat. I didn't see this seance thing, mind.

[Partridge's Love Child]

On his show on Friday, I wouldn't have got the vinegar, because I'd spotted that he'd said "Salt and" and then not continued when discussing crisps.  The fellow's route to the aforementioned fluid was impressive though.

[Johnny Yesno]

It was presented 'as-live' but I presume it was pre-recorded otherwise how could they instantly claim that all the students "fully understood the nature of the experiment"

And why they were cold even though they were wearing loads of clothes.

I love Derren Brown's approach, it's refreshingly unpretentious in comparison to your usual 'occult' shows...it's very much a case of 'look what I can do, isn't it cool!' rather than 'look what I can do, aren't I cool!', if that makes sense...he seems to enjoy sharing these weird things he can do with people, and I love his no-bullshit approach, telling people how he does his stuff.

Me too. He does always seem to be honest. However, last night's effort seemed all the more creepy for the honesty. Even though he had quite clearly explained the way Spiritualism is open to fraud, the "let's bring an open mind to this" approach seemed to make the students believe in the possibility of meeting spirits all the more.

[Johnny Yesno]

On his show on Friday, I wouldn't have got the vinegar, because I'd spotted that he'd said "Salt and" and then not continued when discussing crisps.  The fellow's route to the aforementioned fluid was impressive though.

I thought "vinegar" right away. He said something about pointing his "finegar" at one point, and then there was the "cheese and onion and salt and..." bit. How the hell did he predict the route, though?

[zozman]

I think he'd clearly picked the students who were most likely to believe that sort of stuff.  I'd love to see how he chose them - I've read some stuff somewhere about how a certain type of person is much more likely to jump straight to the "paranormal" conclusion rather than a more likely, logical approach.

Where can I buy one of those old-fashioned, Libertines, army style jackets that that lad had on?

[Silver SurferGhost]

Susceptible types, these stew-dents.
But blummin hell, you have to wonder how long ago it was recorded. Had none of them heard of him or seen his show before? I know he picks the susceptible ones but even so you'd think his notoriety would have put paid to any naiveity on their part.*

...and anyway, half the fun of these things is seeing how crestfallen the dupes are when they realise what utter chumps they've been, so that  "and all our subjects lived happily ever after in a big house with Derren" bit at the end was a right cop-out.

Does anybody remember The Amazing Kreskin? He was the proper gear he was, he had spectacles and a suit, he was a con-man you could trust.


*Yes I am of course assuming they lead lives as dull and uninteresting as mine and have nowt better to do than watch TV conjurers errr, psychological illusionists and then rant about them on t'Internet.

[The Plaque Goblin]

...The screaming whilst the spirit was summoned, the six year old voice, the wonderful burst of feedback to really shit up that girl in the room on her own,..

I suspect he set the speaker he was using to talk to the subjuct up to generate a low frequency sound wave which, apparently, makes parts of the body resonate creating sensory phenomena suggestive of a ghost.

It's amazing how easily manipulated the mind can be, and it seems to become even easier when more people are involved all of them wanting to believe...

I think it's extremely concerning just how easily manipulated the mind can be. Free will really does seem like the weakest force in the universe.

[tony peanuts]

I think he'd clearly picked the students who were most likely to believe that sort of stuff.  I'd love to see how he chose them - I've read some stuff somewhere about how a certain type of person is much more likely to jump straight to the "paranormal" conclusion rather than a more likely, logical approach.

He said at the beginning that he had picked the 12 people he thought would be the most susceptible, by which I assumed he meant 'most susceptible to hypnosis and suggestion'.  

Did anybody go and see him on his recent tour?  Apparently he did a similar sort of seance act during the second half, spinning some story about a friend of his that had died.  A couple of friends of mine went and one of the people they went with was called up on stage for it, chosen supposedly by a random pick of a seat number.  Turns out that he had met Derren in the bar earlier and been taken backstage for a guided tour, at which time he'd shown Derren his ticket.  He didn't say anything to anyone on the night because he only remembered it happening a couple days afterward, so it seems hypnotic suggestion plays a big part in these things.  
Still, knowing how the trick, or at least part of it, is done doesn't make it any less fun to watch.  Derren's a fantastic showman.

[phes]

I'm definitley a big fan. Did you know that this man can memorise the order of 4 shuffled packets of cards - what a freak. Some of his talents involve such a high level of skill that I still meet people who believe them to be illusions. When a chum of mine went to see Derren Brown at portsmouth guilhall he selected random members of the audience to take part in stuff by throwing frisbees from the stage against the balconies. Needless to say, unless some truly incredible illusion is involved there, he silenced those who voice suspicions of guest fixing. According to my friend, everyone was instructed never to speak with anyone who wasn't there that night of the finale the
evening led up to. The bastard wouldn't say a word to me, not like him and it really pissed me off!

[Partridge's Love Child]

I bet he's brilliant at picking up chicks.  And even if he isn't, his wank bank must be a superlative store of mammory rememberance.

Derren Brown: It's A Wanking Thread.

[hencole]

The sooner someone cuts of your dangly bits the better.

[mayer]

wierd confession here....

i only caught the "Russian Roulette" thing on a repeat, and i only caught the last 2 minutes.

and i thought that Derren Brown was Alistair McGowan, right up until the credits rolled. it was his wierd blank stare, angular features, mechanical motions and the total absurdity of it all.

i do like the stuff i've seen of his since mind.

[MojoJojo]

I suspect he set the speaker he was using to talk to the subjuct up to generate a low frequency sound wave which, apparently, makes parts of the body resonate creating sensory phenomena suggestive of a ghost.

Apparently, extremely strong magnetic fields can create an illusion of ghostliness. The same thing I was reading also said that many apparently haunted sites have signs that there has been a strong magnetic field there at some point. Which leads me to dismiss the entire thing as rubbish, as it's obviously imply that a strong magnetic field scrambled peoples brains up, ignoring the fact that it would also screw up any money and other metal stuff they had on them.

Sorry, I'm rambling.

Private Eye had a little bit on Derren Brown in their EYE TV section, which basically said it was a bit shit, doing magic tricks with recorded stuff. Paul Daniels may have been a bit pants, but he did always do his stuff in front of a live studio audience, so it did require some skill, as opposed to just having the balls to ask your editor to do all the magic for you.

[Ghost of Troubled Joe]

Yeah, I loved this too. Very, very interesting stuff, I was unsure about it until he showed the home movie of "Jane", and then I was pretty much convinced he had manipulated the group to all come to the same paranormal conclusion. It had some questions still left over (I still can't believe he got the medium to get all of the faked details in the letter right), but this was still well worth watching. I loved the fact that it started off as a paranormal event but the ending basically debunked any spiritual theories.

I too would have loved to see the seance group being confronted by "Jane." In fact the whole show should've been longer.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

They could have had a bit of fun though instead of just confronting them with her seriously. They should have at least made her jump out at them all during the seance, foaming at the mouth, screaming with make up to make her look dead. Then they would have all been shit scared for a few seconds. It was good though I thought. Although when they were showing the pictures telling you to pick a dead student person, I guessed it would be Jane that we were made to pick - she was the only coloured photo on the second line of pictures for a start. There should be more programs of this kind of quality on television though. He's always pretty entertaining.

[swinny]

Saw a few episodes of an old series of his a few years back, and although I've not seen much of the new stuff I've always remembered those "tricks".

Most memorable was one in which he gave a brief explanation into how advertising worked on a sub-conscious level, and then proved it by setting up a challenge for 2 Ad. Execs. to brand a new business...Basically at the end of it he compared his original concept to theirs and they were almost identical!...then he showed how he set it up by carefully planning the trip the guys took to the studio in such a way they were exposed to various motifs from his idea that then stuck in their mind...even little things like words written on the jumpers of some kids who crossed a road in front of the taxi and a guy in a bear suit walking down the street made a huge impact in him being able to influence their decisions without them realising.

...was a fascinating bit of TV, and not a little scary!

[Make me smile]

did you notice how the girl who eventually became the 'medium' was the girl closet to the 'y' on the ouija board? I presume this was because she was the most suggestable and less likely to resist the push of the other two upon the glass...that is presuming of course that the selection of the medium wasn't as random as it seemed

Private Eye had a little bit on Derren Brown in their EYE TV section, which basically said it was a bit shit, doing magic tricks with recorded stuff. Paul Daniels may have been a bit pants, but he did always do his stuff in front of a live studio audience, so it did require some skill, as opposed to just having the balls to ask your editor to do all the magic for you.

that bit in PE really pissed me off, I think whoever wrote that completely missed the point of what Brown does.

[Munday's Chylde]

Saw a few episodes of an old series of his a few years back, and although I've not seen much of the new stuff I've always remembered those "tricks".

Most memorable was one in which he gave a brief explanation into how advertising worked on a sub-conscious level, and then proved it by setting up a challenge for 2 Ad. Execs. to brand a new business...Basically at the end of it he compared his original concept to theirs and they were almost identical!...then he showed how he set it up by carefully planning the trip the guys took to the studio in such a way they were exposed to various motifs from his idea that then stuck in their mind...even little things like words written on the jumpers of some kids who crossed a road in front of the taxi and a guy in a bear suit walking down the street made a huge impact in him being able to influence their decisions without them realising.

...was a fascinating bit of TV, and not a little scary!

This is old ground for me (i've ranted about him before) but I'll recap again my previous 'complaints' (I use the word complaints in quotations because I really do enjoy derren browns shows).

I don't know how Derren Brown does some of what he does, if I was completely synical I would suggest that in many instances it's quite simply fake and uses stooges (despite his claims to the contrary). The example you gave there was one of the first ones I saw where I actually began to question his authenticity, previously I had gone along with his 'psychological' explanations but I saw that one and thought, "...hang about."

It was simply too flawed, the picture they drew was just too exact, even if we accept the explanation that we can subliminaly plant suggestions in the background only somebody with the most limited understanding of this technique could genuinely believe it can be done to the level he did there, especially with suggestions as vague as his (as you mentioned, words on jumpers of kids crossing the road). This coupled with the fact that a) what about all the non-controlled external stimuli they encountered on the way to the office? Why did none of that feature in their advertisment and b) how exactly did the two ad execs manage to turn and face the exact right direction everytime they drove past a window with a bear in its display, or look at the kids crossing the road etc - what was to stop them just looking at their feet or chatting to each other? Thats a hell of a risk isnt it?

On the show I saw the other night he had a woman in who he hypnotised in the space of 20 seconds. He picked her at random from the street and staring at her he started rambling on about 'shopping days till xmas' replacing the word shopping with 'stopping'. He was then able to make her stand still against her will! Now it's rubbish of course, an actual practicing psychologist or hypnotist with thirty years in the trade couldnt accomplish this task in that space of time let alone a failed stand up who has read books on psychology in his spare time. He then went on to further do the impossible by getting another woman who hadnt even met him and was apparently just walking past on the street below to do the same. Honestly!

I like Derren Browns shows, they good viewing really. But he just perfoms parlour tricks and the 'participants' arent the stooges he uses on the show but are the viewers, the ones who are misdirected by his "oooh i noticed he said stopping instead of shopping, i know how he does it!" into accepting an unlikely psychological explanation and therefore dont bother thinking about it logically. I've a lot of admiration for him, he's achieved a hell of gimic by being able to do magic tricks, telling us they're not tricks and offering us an alternative suggestion that we're all willing to accept unquestioningly.

[gazzyk1ns]

I posted this in another thread when the topic came up, so I'll paste it here as it was a fairly detailed summing up of my opinion:

I was very disappointed too, because I normally like Brown... his shooting was more publicity stunt than... intelligence/clever trickery, but a lot of the things in his series' are genuinely stunning, even though you know it's simple misdirection/sleight of hand/hypnotism/memory feats.

Tonight's show was poor, it began with a "trick" involving selecting one photo from many, which we've all seen done in similar ways via one of those rubbish forwarded Emails... and as everyone has already said, it was instantly apparent that the story was fake.

I mentioned hypnotism up there, I'm sure Brown hypnotises most of his subjects before a stunt, and that's where 99% of the trick lies... for example, tonight, he instantly put several subjects into a trance, which is probably impossible without hypnotism... and also very easy with hypnotism. He does that little bit of blurb at the start of each show, saying he fuses a number of "things" in order to make the program... some of the words he uses are "misdirection" and "showmanship", I think he must hypnotise a lot of his subjects before the show and not tell us. He can also then honestly say "none of the participants are actors or stooges" should he be discovered, along with "I said I used showmanship..." to counter any accusations of lying or misrepresenting himself. He is also an extremely clever man, specifically in the areas of memory/chance/prediction - including that type of stunt (i.e. the scissors/paper/stone things, and the chess games) in his program lead people to believe that he is some type of psychic, it's a very clever mix.

To be clear, I like the guy, and love watching his stuff, I just think a lot of people (both those who love and hate his programmes) misinterpret what he does and can't fully appreciate it because of that.

It's a general view of mine really, I can't understand anyone who either hates or believes totally in a migician/illusionist... that demonstrates such ignorance; if you nelieve 100% in Brown/Blaine/Copperfield then you're ignoring the fact that they claim to have these supernatural/unexplainable powers, but are fucking about on TV with them... and then conversely, if you hate them, you're missing the point that they have no such powers, but are making money by convincing gullible people that they do.

In reply to Mundays' thingy up there, I'd guess that the street "stopping" thing was simply achieved by him hypnotising the women in question beforehand - and telling them they don't remember previously having met him, or that they're hypnotised (a la Paul McKenna and whoever else). So when he says they're not actors or stooges, he's not actually lying... and neither are the women when he asks them if he's ever met them before, i.e. as far as they know at that time they're being honest. Hence just the simple "I use misdirection and showmanship" disclaimer at the start.

[phes]

When a chum of mine went to see Derren Brown at portsmouth guilhall he selected random members of the audience to take part in stuff by throwing frisbees from the stage against the balconies. They bounced of in various directions. Those that caught them where invited onstage.

The tricks he went on to perform were similar to those demonstrated on the television show. If you believe he picks susceptable targets to hypnotise, please explain this to me.

[Rats]

...and anyway, half the fun of these things is seeing how crestfallen the dupes are when they realise what utter chumps they've been, so that "and all our subjects lived happily ever after in a big house with Derren" bit at the end was a right cop-out.

No, no, no you tosser, really, everyone thinks they're oscar wilde pissing on retards nowadays. It would have ruined the whole show.