The Binding Of Isaac (Afterbirth Plus)

[Kelvin]

What should I be focusing on now that I've killed Mom's heart a few times? Do I just keep doing that, or does it make more sense to pursue certain challenges, play certain characters?

I mean obviously you need to do all of that eventually, but at this stage, what's makes sense to do next?

[Shay Chaise]

Without spoiling much, keep beating the game and after 10 Mom's Heart kills, it'll do something else. With each Heart kill you're also unlocking various things, mostly challenges I think, but you'll also see some other changes along the way, I reckon. Some are automatic, some are dependent on number of completions and the like. You're not too far away from things opening up quite a bit more. Keep blowing stuff up and keep donating to the shop machine. It makes a massive difference down the line.

[madhair60]

Holy jeeping SHIT Kelvin will you just play the fucking game! I'm sorry there are no Power Stars or Shine Sprites, CHRIST just... just PLAY THE GAME

playthegame

[Kelvin]

I just like to know what I'm supposed to be working towards, I guess. 10 Mom kills gives me something to aim for, then I can pick a new target. 

[Kelvin]

I mean, I've played Splatoon 2 for over 200 hours (I think), and most of that was just spent working towards my perfect clothing setup, buying all the weapons, etc. The second I did all that, I moved on to Isaac. I barely even used most of the weapons or got use out of the finished clothes. It was just fun working towards it.

That's all I need; a little bit of tinsel dangled in front of me.

[madhair60]

My breakdown was a ruse.

Killing Mom should unlock the next chapter. There are, ultimately, ten different "clears" (with each character) necessary for 100% completion. Layers on layers. It'll become clear - after a Mom kill, a new chapter opens up, with a new boss. Each time you clear that you will unlock more. Ultimately that too will become something else. It goes and goes.

[Shay Chaise]

I just had a belter of a run. I started with the D6 as Isaac and immediately found Clicker on the first floor. I turned into Samson, with whom I had no hard completion marks, and carried the D6 for two laps, taking down everything but Mega Satan and Hush, including Delirium. It took about an hour and was such a satisfying win because I was ready to start again on the very first floor due to wasting some health and bombs. Thank God I didn't. I also gambled on a D6 room and ended up with Tech X and Polyphemus, plus I got Guppy, Mom, Bob, Bookworm, Leviathan and Beelzebub transformations, with Guppy, Bookworm and Bob on the first run. Absolute wrecking ball.

[brat-sampson]

This is ridiculous :p I played the everloving shit out of Afterbirth, but then I skip + and it's like people are talking a whole new language...

I'm going to crack and buy this eventually, aren't I.

[Shay Chaise]

There are so many great games on the Switch that I barely ever play, just because of Isaac. I've thought about uninstalling it to make me play different stuff. But yes, I suspect you will and it'll be worth it.

[Kelvin]

What's the deal with pills? The risk ratio seems far too high to make using them worthwhile after the first 2-3 floors. Several good runs have been sunk by me taking them and losing a heart, or reducing damage or range.

[Shay Chaise]

You're absolutely right about the risk and that there are probably more negative than positive, and yet I take every unknown pill because the knowledge gives you the option down the line when it could be useful. If you take them all, they're essentially better in later floors because you know what not to take. Balls of Steel and Health Up can be life savers. The PhD item gives you only good pills, too.

Puberty, by the way, is a good pill. If you take three in one run, you'll see a positive effect, so always take that despite the negative sound effect. It doesn't harm you at all.

In fact, transformations in general are worth knowing and working towards. Guppy in particular is always a target for me on every run.

[Kelvin]

You're absolutely right, and yet I take every unknown pill because the knowledge gives you the option down the line when it could be useful. Balls of Steel and Health Up can be life savers. The PhD item gives you only good pills, too.

Yeah, it was PhD that I got on my last run when I killed Mom's heart for the third time.

I really have a very divided reaction to this game. Yesterday, I fucking hated it passionately, because numerous runs were fucked over by a single item late in the game (eg. the dead cat, and a bunch of health down pills), then today, on my first game, I breezed through it with the PhD item, and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I've started looking up what items do, which helps, frankly. Blah blah, don't spoil it for yourself, blah blah, that defeats the point of the game. But honestly, I don't care. I'm enjoying it much more now that I'm doing that, and not having a 45 minute run ruined by an item I don't recognise screwing me at the last minute.     

[Shay Chaise]

Edit: I added a bit above about pills and transformations.

I totally understand the frustration and also agree about how my own enjoyment increased when I felt I could make better choices by using the platinum god item reference sheet. As you say, it's really annoying to mess up a good half hour run because you picked up something which screwed you. As an aside, Dead Cat can be really really useful depending on your build and character and that's the case for almost every item, which is another reason to look stuff up! By trial and error, you'd have to ruin so so many runs to learn and as much and have as much fun.

[Kelvin]

which is another reason to look stuff up! By trial and error, you'd have to ruin so so many runs to learn and as much and have as much fun.

Exactly. There are so many items, I've gotten some items 3-4 times, and still can't always remember exactly what they do. It's easier to just look the item up and enjoy the run as if you'd learnt them at this point.

I do totally understand why people love it, though. When a run goes well it's absolutely great fun, especially towards the end.

[Shay Chaise]

Bear in mind too that Mom's Heart is basically not a boss, once you really get going. There's so much ahead of you in terms of content and variety, not least because that item pool and the enemy variation and floor variation will keep growing and growing.

Once you unlock the D6 with Isaac, it also gives your most basic runs a whole new level of depth and momentum. And when you unlock The Lost you open up another very different type of run which is basically Glass Cannon. They were two tough unlocks, really tough, but which gave the game a new breath of life, for me, and which made me understand the mechanics and meta much better.

You have a shit load to do before then, though, all of it worthwhile and progressive.

[Eight Taiwanese Teenagers]

I'm sure as hell going to start looking things up too. How am I meant to remember each one?

I think I'm a bit rubbish at this, haven't got past level 5 since the miracle run I did that time.

[madhair60]

I'm ready to walk away now.

[Shay Chaise]

Well done, champ. You win. My aim now is simply Godhead and get all the unlocks I can with other characters.

[Kelvin]

Well done, champ. You win. My aim now is simply Godhead and get all the unlocks I can with other characters.

Mine is to not throw this this fucking console in front of a bus.

Killed Mom's heart for the fifth time, game ramps up in difficulty. Which would be fine, if half the runs weren't infuriating before it got harder.

I just want to enjoy the game, which is really solid, and use lots of crazy weapons to kill turd monsters. So why is it that half the time, I feel like I'm being forced to do it with absolutely shit items?

I dunno. I feel like the game would be amazing if it was just more consistent in it's drops each run. I know that's not the point, or the appeal to a lot of people, but it's just too frustrating to be consistently enjoyable for me. Every time I think I'm start to really get into it, something happens that makes me want to kick a kitten across Manchester, and ruins the experience all over again.

[madhair60]

Mate, sell it.

[Kelvin]

haha, its a download, so I'm stuck with the cunt

I will stop moaning about it, though. I just wanted to vent.

[madhair60]

No choice but to sell the console. Clean break.

[Kelvin]

I promise I'll give it up after, Mario, baby, I just need to get through this one last month. Just one more Mario.

[kittens]

hold 'r'

[Shay Chaise]

Mine is to not throw this this fucking console in front of a bus.

Killed Mom's heart for the fifth time, game ramps up in difficulty. Which would be fine, if half the runs weren't infuriating before it got harder.

I just want to enjoy the game, which is really solid, and use lots of crazy weapons to kill turd monsters. So why is it that half the time, I feel like I'm being forced to do it with absolutely shit items?

I dunno. I feel like the game would be amazing if it was just more consistent in it's drops each run. I know that's not the point, or the appeal to a lot of people, but it's just too frustrating to be consistently enjoyable for me. Every time I think I'm start to really get into it, something happens that makes me want to kick a kitten across Manchester, and ruins the experience all over again.

Pretty much everything has some value but the item pool definitely gets fattened up as you go on. You're also more likely to get better stuff earlier as the challenge increases. You'll get more and better basic drops, like more valuable coins and stuff which mix things up early game. Equally, levelling up the shop makes a big difference because you just have more options.

I'd also say that - without being patronising - you're doing great. It took me ages and ages to get to where you already are, and there's a certain momentum you build up as you learn to rinse every floor and get a feel for the secret stuff. I do still get frustrated by it. I spent about forth minutes before setting up some D20 trickery on Greedier mode, which is dependent on RNG and a fair bit of extra luck and a chunk of decent play. I was about one hit away from being able to go wild and break the game and I carelessly gotta killed by an off-screen enemy. I could have sliced my throat with a Joycon grip.

[Shay Chaise]

Also, how are you getting on with finding secret rooms? Each floor has a secret room and a super secret room, and they are generally well worth finding. There are general rules for where you're likely to find one but there's an element of developing a sense for where they are.

[Kelvin]

Also, how are you getting on with finding secret rooms? Each floor has a secret room and a super secret room, and they are generally well worth finding. There are general rules for where you're likely to find one but there's an element of developing a sense for where they are.

I find them occasionally. Either by luck, a fully revealed map or when I have a surplus of bombs to use.

I do like it when you realise something new, like being able to create bridges by bombing rocks on the opposite side from the hole.

[Shay Chaise]

I spent every minute since that post on a Lost Run on Greedier Mode. I got to Ultra Greedier for the first time with Dead Cat and Guppy's Collar, so I had ten attempts at it. Dead every time within thirty seconds. Took a good chunk of my afternoon to get there and I had an argument with my wife. This game is bad for a healthy and happy life. I'm not being funny.

[Shay Chaise]

Madlad, are you playing AB+ or easy mode?

Have you beaten Ultra Greedier with The Lost?

I'm losing focus on what's important in life.

[Shay Chaise]

Right, fuck all that SHIT, absolutely FRIGGED it in the BASTARD YAAASSSS



I cannot believe I've done this. A few months ago I couldn't have even imagined I'd be able to unlock The Lost. Godhead here we come mate. If I can do this I can do anything, I reckon.

My strategy was to break it with the D20 and then not manage to do that at all but keep rerolling everything with the D100 and ended up with a pretty strange build including Pyromaniac which I knew protected me from his bomb attacks so I just held on, skipped a couple of floors with the shovel and then just went round the corners and closed my eyes and prayed and kept hammer fire. I probably died eight times and somehow hung on for dear life. I had to beat it because I needed to start cooking at half four to make amends for being a twat today.

I've beaten Ultra Greedier with The Lost and saved my marriage, I assume.