Topic: Top of the Pops on BBC Four - Thread Two.

[Better Midlands]

As I said about Respectable, it was 'heavily influenced' by Steve 'Silk' Hurley's Jack Your Body. S/A/W were as bad as anyone for thievery, which makes the hoo-hah Waterman made about the sampling of Roadblock even more hypocritical and transparent that he was trying to maintain Rick Astley's no.1 position.

You're quite right about about the MARRS situation, there's James Brown and others all over that mix. It's a shame as the heavy handed vocal sampling really dates a lot of good tracks from UK producers in 1987, where as Pump Up The Volume had dated incredibly well.

[buzby]

You're obviously joking here, but I read once that SAW used to create harmonies for vocals by using pitch shifting/time stretching on samplers - would this machine be capable of that?

Yes, absolutely - The Infernal Machine could do most of what Antares Autotune could do but 10 years earlier and in hardware (using masses of discrete logic chips, most of which had the numbers ground off to hide how it worked). You can hear the repitched harmonies all over that Kylie track.

If you singer needs to have pitch correction applied to their main vocal to get them in tune for the main melody, there's no way they will be able to sing a harmony so you may as well knock them off using the same process. That lazy way of producing harmonies them gets used by default  even if you have got a decent singer, especially at the rate PWL were burning through tracks at the end of the 80s.

The most blatant one has to be the French Kiss copy remix of Sonia's - You'll Never Stop Me From Loving You.
https://youtu.be/p8QahHsO_xE

Fucking hell, that's shameless (and no credit to Lil' Louis either). It seems they had another go at it for Kylie's 1990 Australian tour with The Loco-Motion

[Better Midlands]

Interesting, the obvious one on Hand On Your Heart is the "male" sounding vocal of that phrase that sounds like it was pitched down 5 or 7 semitones. I was just reading about the IM90 on Gearslutz after your post, it's an incredible and eccentric bit of kit for the time. Shame there's no demo of it on YouTube (there's two videos with the boot up sequence), a great video of the 89 effects processor where someone mangles the accapella of The Message sounds fantastic however.

[Chriddof]

Learning about the existence of the Publison Infernal Machine has suddenly cleared up one thing for me: it must be the reason why Ian Brown's vocals on The Stone Roses' first album are actually in tune, a full six years before Antares Autotune came out. I remember back in the 90s people on Britpop-related USENET newsgroups would debate why he sounded fine in the studio, as opposed to what you could hear in contemporary live recordings. The most commonly assumed answer back then was that he felt more relaxed in the studio and in gigs he suffered slightly from some sort of stagefright(!).

[Norton Canes]

Here's my guesses/hopes for the most likely candidates for Big Hits '87 from that list :

ALISON MOYET – Weak In The Presence Of Beauty
THE HOUSEMARTINS – Five Get Over Excited
SQUEEZE – Hourglass
DEF LEPPARD – Pour Some Sugar On Me
KAREL FIALKA – Hey Matthew
JAN HAMMER – Crockett's Theme
THE SISTERS OF MERCY – This Corrosion
ERIC B & RAKIM – Paid In Full
RICK ASTLEY – When I Fall In Love

0/9..?

Oh no sorry, we got Eric B & Rakim.

[bim sherman shirts]

The 'Hey' sample used by M/A/R/R/S only featured on the 12" club 'Rare Groove' version' mix of Roadblock, and was sung be session singer Dee Lewis.

Who, by an oddly topical twist of fate, is mrs Luke Goss

[Better Midlands]

Who, by an oddly topical twist of fate, is mrs Luke Goss

Luke's married to her sister, Shirley?

[DrGreggles]

Luke's married to her sister, Shirley?

He is married to her sister.

And don't... etc...

[buzby]

Learning about the existence of the Publison Infernal Machine has suddenly cleared up one thing for me: it must be the reason why Ian Brown's vocals on The Stone Roses' first album are actually in tune, a full six years before Antares Autotune came out. I remember back in the 90s people on Britpop-related USENET newsgroups would debate why he sounded fine in the studio, as opposed to what you could hear in contemporary live recordings. The most commonly assumed answer back then was that he felt more relaxed in the studio and in gigs he suffered slightly from some sort of stagefright(!).

I don't think Rockfield Studios had an Infernal Machine. The thing about the IM90 is that it was a multi-effects unit, combining digital delay, reverb, pitch shifter etc. all in one unit, and despite it's capabilities it wasn't a big seller. Most of the big established studios like Rockfield, Sarm, Trident etc. already had very expensive individual units for each of these functions from the big names like Lexicon, Yamaha, AMS and Eventide, so they couldn't really justify buying a (very expensive) Publison IM90 as well. PWL bought one as they didn't have a proper sampler (they were still using Emulator IIs by then I think) and had a particular need for a good pitch corrector/shifter to make their future plans for quick turnaround of tracks easier.

In a 1980s brochure for Rockfield it says they had an Eventide H910 Harmonizer, which had a similar capability to the pitch correction function of the Infernal Machine (though it wasn't as easy to control via MIDI) so that or it's replacement may well have been used on the Second Coming vocal sessions.

0/9..?

Oh no sorry, we got Eric B & Rakim.

Having to play along to the Coldcut 'Seven Minutes Of Madness' remix of Paid In Full, which they hated.

[Better Midlands]

PWL bought one as they didn't have a proper sampler (they were still using Emulator IIs by then I think) and had a particular need for a good pitch corrector/shifter to make their future plans for quick turnaround of tracks easier..

Quote from Mark McGuire who engineered Never Gonna Give You Up at PWL studios

"The room I worked in was very shallow, and I really liked its close, intimate sound," McGuire remarks. "The Linn 9000, which most sequences and drums were done on, was run from a [Friendchip] SRC synchroniser, and a [Yamaha] DX7 was used for virtually all of the bass lines. There was also a [Roland] Juno 106; a [Yamaha] Rev 5 and Rev 7; Dbx 160 compressors; SDE 3000 delays; an Emulator; and the wonderful Publison Infernal Machine 90, which was the first sampler that could actually pitch‑change without really affecting the time signature. You could time‑stretch things and make them fit reasonably well — It was a little choppy, but for the time it was phenomenal. Other than that, there was an AMS delay/harmoniser, which always had a number of kick and snare samples, and that was pretty much it."

[Better Midlands]

Having to play along to the Coldcut 'Seven Minutes Of Madness' remix of Paid In Full, which they hated.

Not happy bunnies

https://youtu.be/zb1hZpM24So

Another 1987 record spoilt by spoken word samples.

[buzby]

Quote from Mark McGuire who engineered Never Gonna Give You Up at PWL studios

That pretty much lines up from what i remembered. I mentioned earlier that you could use the AMS DMX as a rudimentary sampler, but it only had enough delay RAM to do single drum hits.

Not happy bunnies
https://youtu.be/zb1hZpM24So
Another 1987 record spoilt by spoken word samples.

Though in that case most of them were actually spun in from records or from hand-edited cassette tapes as they didn't have a sampler. The only digital sample on the record was the drum loop, which the engineer at Island studios showed them how to play into the Bel digital delay unit and loop it in that. They also didn't get the multitrack to work with either, just 10 copies of their album with the track on, as the remix was commissioned off the books.

It's not the vocal samples that annoy me as much with that remix, it's the really bad edit at 3.13 that they tried to cover up over with some echo.

[the]

It's not the vocal samples that annoy me as much with that remix, it's the really bad edit at 3.13 that they tried to cover up over with some echo.

You can hear Coldcut laughing about that edit on their commentary of Seven Minutes Of Madness.

[bim sherman shirts]

Incidentally, thanks Buzby for the stuff about the Publison Infernal Machine- I logged on here immediately after watching the 1987 stuff on BBC4 eagerly anticipating a breakdown of the Stepp guitar synth used by the Bee Gees but got something even better. Cleared up a 30 year mystery for me too- the effects on S/A/W records definitely seemed to come from a higher technical plane than even the professional harmonising/pitch shifting gear I'd seen at the time.

[Better Midlands]

It seems they had another go at it for Kylie's 1990 Australian tour with The Loco-Motion

Jesus, that's awful.

[Norton Canes]

Am I misremembering or did the earlier Story Ofs have more analysis of music trends in them?

Yeah, this one seemed a bit more anecdotal, though entertainingly so. I thought there might be a bit more about the rise of dance music/House but I suppose they're saving that for the rave-tastic 1988 edition. Plus '87 was kind of the year that Indie really established itself and lest we forget, it was also the year that Goth broke...

[daf]

1 January 1987: Presenter: Gary Davies

(15) STATUS QUO – Dreamin'
"More hits than the Mafia" (!)
(5) A-HA – Cry Wolf (video)
Emergency snot-rag for Dodger
(8) ALISON MOYET – Is This Love?
Joining Gary in the unorthodox Chrono-dexterwrists Club
(18) ELKIE BROOKS – No More The Fool (video)
Sarah Jane Smith : The Ballad Adventures
(31) GARY MOORE – Over The Hills & Far Away
Minty Keyboard Poodle
(22) SPITTING IMAGE – Santa Claus Is On The Dole (video)
Grocer Heath (one for the teenagers!)
(1) JACKIE WILSON – Reet Petite  (video)
Put a Shrek in it!



(4) MADONNA – Open Your Heart (video / credits)
Open Your Peep-Flaps

[Norton Canes]

(18) ELKIE BROOKS – No More The Fool (video)
Sarah Jane Smith : The Ballad Adventures

Holy shitcakes, that is a howling to an empty room in the middle of the night yermebessfuckinmaaaaate colossal caterwaul of a 'fuck-you' breakup song. That tsunami of a delivery that comes in right after the spoken word bit is astonishing.

[Norton Canes]

Oh my word, Gary Davies introducing Iggy Pop on tonight's edition: "Here's someone who's been trying for years to have a UK hit..."

[daf]

8 January 1987: Presenter: Gary Davies

(38) SWING OUT SISTER – Surrender
Still not got that coat mended
(24) LIONEL RICHIE – Ballerina Girl (video)
Needs more giant clay head
(9) THE GAP BAND – Big Fun
Return of the Bacofoil Cowboys
(19) THE PRETENDERS – Hymn To Her (video)
Moonlight Shadows
- - - - - - - - - - - - (breakers) - - - - - - - - - - - -
(36) IGGY POP – Real Wild Child (Wild One)
(32) ROBBIE NEVIL – C'est La Vie
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


https://www.flickr.com/photos/51106326@N00/sets/72157663472087512

(31) PAUL SIMON – The Boy In The Bubble (video)
Pop!
(1) JACKIE WILSON – Reet Petite (video)
Needs more giant Tony Hart hand
(14) GENESIS – Land Of Confusion (video / credits)
Dead . .  Dead . .  Alive . .  Locked Up

[Better Midlands]

(32) ROBBIE NEVIL – C'est La Vie
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Loved this at time, great pop song.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Two things about the Pretenders video:

Does it sound like it's recorded in the bog? (I'm getting my ears syringed on Monday)

Did the guy on the synths also do the synths on Stop Making Sense?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Just looking at the Iggy video now. It's rare you see vidicon persistence and a frame-buffer working well together.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Fucking hell was that a Genesis song or a stalking horse for spitting image.

[The Culture Bunker]

Two things about the Pretenders video:

Does it sound like it's recorded in the bog? (I'm getting my ears syringed on Monday)

Did the guy on the synths also do the synths on Stop Making Sense?

Dunno if that's Bernie Worrell on keys (edit to say: a Google search says "yes"), but sighting of Haircut 100's Blair Cunningham on drums and I think Robbie McIntosh, sitting in on guitar, worked with Talk Talk around the same time.

[Satchmo Distel]

Oh my word, Gary Davies introducing Iggy Pop on tonight's edition: "Here's someone who's been trying for years to have a UK hit..."

I thought 'Real Wild Child' was a fairly clear attempt to be commercial (Iggy imitating Billy Idol imitating Iggy?) but I agree there's no evidence of his aiming for UK chart success (rather than cult status) before that, although "Lust For Life" made No. 4 in the Netherlands and clearly was a classic single.

Or do you mean that "hit" is an unintended drug reference?

[Norton Canes]

Oh no, the former. I just love Gary's proclamation that struggling old Iggy has been desperate to crack the UK top 40 for most of his career.

[non capisco]

I can't remember whether or not 'Spitting Image' was still a going concern during the Blair years but they could easily have just used the Tony Banks puppet for him. Funny how they saved all their angriest material for a Genesis video rather than their own hits.

I don't know what it is about the sort of video effects used in 'The Boy In The Bubble' and other similar videos like Talking Heads' 'And She Was' but I find them strangely repellent. It's not even a 'dated' thing, I felt the same way in the 80s. That flying foot waggling about in the Talking Heads one put me right off my Shreddies one morning.

[buzby]

I don't know what it is about the sort of video effects used in 'The Boy In The Bubble' and other similar videos like Talking Heads' 'And She Was' but I find them strangely repellent. It's not even a 'dated' thing, I felt the same way in the 80s. That flying foot waggling about in the Talking Heads one put me right off my Shreddies one morning.

It's Jim Blashfield, who also did Nu Shooz' I Can't Wait, Jacko's Leave Me Alone and the US version of Gabriel & Bush's Dont Give Up. It's that odd mix of low-frame rate animation that's been digitised and comped together in a Quantel Harry.

[Pauline Walnuts]

I can't remember whether or not 'Spitting Image' was still a going concern during the Blair years but they could easily have just used the Tony Banks puppet for him.

"Now, We don't have a leader who doesn't stop talking, and we don't have a leader who doesn't do anything, we now have a leader who doesn't stop talking and who doesn't do anything. Rejoice! REJOICE!"



For some reason I was watching some Genesis album interviews, and Tony Banks is notable even alongside for Phil Collins (and Mike Rutherford to a lesser extent) for being a bit of a card isn't he?

By which I mean cunt.