Brexit Thread Six: A Gaping Homage To Brextus Propertius

[Johnny Yesno]

i'm mainly masturbating

Metaphorically as well as literally.

[Zetetic]

We've always known that there are people advocating for a federal EU state.

We've also known that they've had very little traction because of the lack of appetite from the member states - their governmenta and populations.

So... Another argument for the UK to remain and support an alternative view of the EU, I guess. (Unless you're an enthusiastic federalist, maybe.)

[Ambient Sheep]

Another interesting reply to the Verhofstadt video:

https://twitter.com/ChrisJones_1/status/1107743527734251525?s=09

[Zetetic]

The UK leaving puts a lot of other smaller countries, who either currently or would like to opt out of bits that threaten their own policy making, in a difficult position (even if doesn't make federalism actually any more credible).

[Johnny Yesno]

I like how the brexiteers are studiously ignoring the fact that, contrary to years of UK government bullshit, he's saying member states like Poor Ickle Bricken aren't utterly subservient to the EU after all.

[Cursus]

[Replies From View]

Yes, begging the EU to delay leaving is ALL HIS FAULT


Absolutely love how voting for the same scheme again and again until the correct response arises is fine when it suits them.

[Cursus]

[jobotic]

KILL. HIM.

[hummingofevil]

Remember that the Mail actually wants a Deal as Rothermere who owns the bloody thing is a remainer. The Mail is currently has just aligned with the Tories as slight more centre then the paper used to be under Dacre crashing into May who is solidly right. The Express' coverage is more just sensationalist, print the most incendurie things it can to whip up it's readers so not surprised.

What do we reckon of these rumours of a Polish/Hungary/Italian veto of extension and no-deal by default? In all previous discussions there has been very little dissent from these anti-EU governments with the Brexit discussions (funny how their issues with the EU never stretch as far as not cashing in the cheques they receive - and the Poles in particular might have certain philosophical issues with the EU but they are desperate not to piss us off to much as freedom of movement for their national disappears).

One good thing from all of this is that the European elections are going to be a good laugh if we have to take part in them.

[BlodwynPig]

try again

[jobotic]

What do we reckon of these rumours of a Polish/Hungary/Italian veto of extension and no-deal by default?

It's British democracy in action, as is giving the DUP whatever Brexit (and cash) they demand (even though NI was remain).

[Huxleys Babkins]

The more Huxley I read the more I like.  Everyone was telling us to go read Orwell (which, to be fair, isn't the worst thing in the world), when we should have been reading Huxley instead.  Classic misdirection.

Can I put this on my CV?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Edit, fuck it

[Replies From View]

That's exactly what a Leaver would say and has said about holding a People's Vote.

That's the point I was making.

[phantom_power]

I like how the brexiteers are studiously ignoring the fact that, contrary to years of UK government bullshit, he's saying member states like Poor Ickle Bricken aren't utterly subservient to the EU after all.

Yes, and that as all member states have to agree on changes then any of his ideas would have to be ratified by them all and so are very unlikely to happen.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

That's the point I was making.

I noticed, albeit a bit late. Too early in the morning for this shit.

[greencalx]

My comments from Sunday seem already to be obsolete in the light of Bercow's statement.

I'm now trying to work out what can happen now. If there's no vote by Wednesday, then May is morally (if not legally) obliged to seek an extension. I gather she's already sent a letter requesting one. But surely May will have to make some sort of concession to the EU leaders so that the extension is granted.

What she's prepared to offer probably depends on how committed she is to her withdrawal agreement. If she remains too stubborn to change it, then I can't see her being given more time to try and get it through parliament - especially since Bercow has said that it needs to differ in substance. It's possible she might decide to prorogue parliament to exploit the "same session" loophole - but if I understood correctly, this would require a queen's speech and it's not impossible that this could be defeated. So it might be quicker and less damaging to go for a general election.

She could potentially agree to a 2nd ref. But as the public voting for her deal is the least probable in either a two-way or a three-way scenario, I think this is unlikely.

Which leaves either moving a red line and renegotiating, or pissing about until A50 expires and leaving with no deal. But if you're going to do that at the end of an extension, you might as well do that now.

One thing I'm unclear about is whether parliament has to agree to an extension if it is offered, or whether it will just happen anyway. The 29th exit date is still written into law, right, so presumably that would have to be superceded?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Pretty easy. Bercow said a second vote was justified because the deal had changed in substance. Therefore that's a low threshold to meet, given it changed only slightly. His pronouncements on the matter leave him wriggle room on this. Therefore unless this has spooked the Tories I expect another vote, I also expect the EU to offer something else to assist May.

[Buelligan]

What do we reckon of these rumours of a Polish/Hungary/Italian veto of extension and no-deal by default?

Wouldn't that rather crystallise things?  The HOC would be faced with a straight choice between crash out with No Deal or revoke A50.  I'm pretty sure what the outcome of that would be (and who would carry the bamlem, which would be rather handy, wouldn't it?),

[phantom_power]

That would be the ideal situation. Stay in the EU and blame the foreigns

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yeah the EU won't do that if their long game is to persuade us to stay.

[Alberon]

The Guardian reckons it might have stopped Meaningful Vote four but the third might still go ahead right before the deadline at the end of next week. But by then an extension should have been negotiated.

[Jittlebags]

Send in Peter Beardsley to negotiate. He'll show them forrins.

[DrGreggles]

Meaningful Vote

An increasingly bizarre phrase.

[idunnosomename]

I'm not sure why Bercow's statement seems to have taken everyone by surprise because I heard loads of whispers about it because it's obviously treating parliament with contempt to just ram the same vote through until you get the result you want, partly through bribery

[Cuellar]

All these meddling EU bureaucrats telling us to get on with it. We'll show them. We're not going anywhere chum.

[Paul Calf]

Well I guess in that case I'd opt for "Associated Status", thanks, but still not an outright "Leave", although I suppose it depends on exactly what that does and doesn't give you.

Someone replied to Vine with this:



which I liked.  The more Huxley I read the more I like.  Everyone was telling us to go read Orwell (which, to be fair, isn't the worst thing in the world), when we should have been reading Huxley instead.  Classic misdirection.

You should bear in mind that Huxley was a eugenicist and Brave New World was originally not written as a work of cacotopian fiction, but as a description of a sane society. As the implications of what had happened in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s permeated the public consciousness, Huxley quickly published Brave New World Revisited to 'set the record straight'. Obviously that's not to say that his work should be discounted, but it should be read with these facts in mind.

His work on hallucinogenic experience is top drawer though. Doors Of Perception / Heaven And Hell was one of my chief influencers as a teenager, and one of the best resources I found while looking into hallucinogens.

Huxley's work is more varied and interesting, but I always found Orwell to be more authentic and less duplicitous (total fabrication of half of Down And Out In Paris And London notwithstanding).

[phantom_power]

Holy shitsnacks:

https://twitter.com/j_g_fitzgerald/status/1107758633406922753

[DrGreggles]

Holy shitsnacks:

https://twitter.com/j_g_fitzgerald/status/1107758633406922753

Pardon my language, but what a bunch of wallies!