Hallelujah (Or not, as the case may be)

[PaulTMA]

Great song as it is, perhaps it will actually be worth it to eliminate it if it means you stop making the same post.

Cheers!  Let me know how you get on.  I haven't felt this way since Nickleback's 'How You Remind Me'.

[chand]

I've heard this accusation on a number of occasions, but I've never seen a reasonable argument put forward to back it up.  They are signed to Domino, which is hardly a colossal corporate record label, and I did have a number of friends who were "into" them way before they were signed, and discovered them through MySpace.  I think they genuinely did have a fanbase which grew organically, although I've no doubt that somewhere along the way they also picked up a shit hot manager and marketing person. 

I'm actually not a huge fan and just picked them out of the hat as a random successful indie example to compare sales of "proper" pop stars (like Steve Brookstein) against. 

Well, at the time Domino had brought the world Franz Ferdinand and rock mag (if not public) faves The Kills, so they weren't on a complete no-mark label; Domino is very well established and highly regarded among opinion-formers. It was a bit of both, I think; you can't sell that many albums solely with word of mouth, and they were EVERYWHERE before the album came out, all over the papers, all over TV...there was a big internet campaign going on, and I read some people saying that they were street-teamed on the Libertines board. I don't know really what happened, but you need a combination of both I think.

[Old Thrashbarg]

Just to say that I was utterly wrong and have completely changed my mind about the song. The original and the new one are dreary crap, but fuck me if the one by Jeff Buckley isn't fantastic after a few listens.

If you like that, listen to John Cale's infinitely superior version, the version that Buckley copied, essentially, before adding his own sense of self-importance.

[scarecrow]

If you like that, listen to John Cale's infinitely superior version, the version that Buckley copied, essentially, before adding his own sense of self-importance.

good call, I've been saying that to people for years. Why is Cale's version so overlooked? I think that, in terms of context, it's hugely moving, given that he had just cleaned up his act prior to recording it. Buckley could sing great, but to me, he's nearly as bad as 'Alexandra,' it's all just vocal acrobatics and wanky guitars, completely lacking Cale's immediacy and driving melody, or the fragility of cohen's own.

I've heard two versions of Cale's besides the Fragments... version: one with strings, and one with samples- are there any others?

[thugler]

I've heard this accusation on a number of occasions, but I've never seen a reasonable argument put forward to back it up.  They are signed to Domino, which is hardly a colossal corporate record label, and I did have a number of friends who were "into" them way before they were signed, and discovered them through MySpace.  I think they genuinely did have a fanbase which grew organically, although I've no doubt that somewhere along the way they also picked up a shit hot manager and marketing person. 

I'm actually not a huge fan and just picked them out of the hat as a random successful indie example to compare sales of "proper" pop stars (like Steve Brookstein) against. 

I think they were sort've marketed as an 'internet/myspace sensation' before they became one and while some people may have discovered them that way it seems odd and unlikely that people would just come across them on myspace at random. I just don't think the music is remarkable enough to make them stand out to that extent just based on mspace etc.

[23 Daves]

I think they were sort've marketed as an 'internet/myspace sensation' before they became one and while some people may have discovered them that way it seems odd and unlikely that people would just come across them on myspace at random. I just don't think the music is remarkable enough to make them stand out to that extent just based on mspace etc.

It's difficult to prove or disprove in this case, I think.  Things can snowball on the Internet when everyone is sending links to their friends directing them to 'this great band they saw live', and I've witnessed this happening on a low level myself with some very cultish acts.  Also, the Arctic Monkeys are both alternative enough to appeal to the cool kids, and pop enough to not to seem too alienating to thirteen year olds who are just making their first baby steps into other types of music.  It's a bit like me being blown away the first time I heard The Wonder Stuff's "Eight Legged Groove Machine" as a wee chap - listening to it now, God knows why I thought it was so mindblowingly different.

On the other hand, I think they stem from slightly before the period where just about any agent/ management/ PR person would have jumped at seeing a band with 10,000 plus Myspace friends, and continued the work from there.  I don't know if this applies much anymore, but I have a friend who manages bands and at one point the main question he was being asked by other promoters, distributors and financiers was "How many MySpace friends do they have?"  So you more or less have to nail that part of the process down before anybody else would touch you.  They're not unique in that respect, but I think they were one of the first acts to realise the benefits of Internet promotion, and set the rather dull trend for everyone else to follow.

[rudi]

I have a friend who manages bands and at one point the main question he was being asked by other promoters, distributors and financiers was "How many MySpace friends do they have?"

Depressingly they still ask this. Label drones have no more or less of a clue than any random person walking down the street outside...

[The Mumbler]

Results:

Alexandra Burke is number one.
Jeff Buckley is number two.
Leonard Cohen is number 36. First thing he's ever got in the top 40.

[ThickAndCreamy]

With Geraldine - Once Upon A Christmas Song at number fucking 5.

For the love of god just give to charity because it's a charity, don't support Peter Kay.

[chand]

Results:

Alexandra Burke is number one.
Jeff Buckley is number two.
Leonard Cohen is number 36. First thing he's ever got in the top 40.

Just to put the scale of this campaign's hilarious failure into perspective, there was a difference of 495,000 copies between Burke's #1 (576,000 sold) and Buckley's #2 (81,000) copies sold. It outsold Buckley by more than 7 to 1. It's essentially proved that there aren't as many music snobs as pop fans, which is what we all knew and precisely the fucking reason why we ignore the charts instead of trying to use our weedy powers in a vain attempt to influence them.

[Marvin]

I don't think it proves anything. I'd argue that most music snobs wouldn't download Buckley's cover as part of an internet campaign and most pop fans wouldn't neccesarily buy a cover of Hallelujah by anyone.

The only winner in any of this is Sony BMG and the only loser is Leonard Cohen who won't see a penny from any of the sales of any of the versions.

[The Mumbler]

Louis Walsh is talking about X-Factor artists reviving Bob Dylan songs next. Again, that frightful word 'quality'.

[The Mumbler]

I'd argue that most music snobs wouldn't download Buckley's cover as part of an internet campaign and most pop fans wouldn't neccesarily buy a cover of Hallelujah by anyone.

Most people who own Grace in the first place won't bother downloading it again simply to get Jeff Buckley in the charts. That album sold very well but it sold pretty slowly.

I hate the way this has become such a 'manufactured pop vs. real music' non-story.

[The Plaque Goblin]

I make it that, approximately, 0.9446% of the Great British public have actually bought the Burke version. And that's not counting those enthusiasts who have seen fit to buy more than one copy.

[Lee Van Cleef]

Am I the only one vaguely amused by the fact that the newly annointed pop diva, supposedly following in the footsteps of Mariah Carey, Diana Ross, et al. is called Alexandra Burke?

I tend to agree with those that say her voice is very overpowering for this song.  I like covers that try to do something new with a song, but turning it into some kind of bombastic diva song doesn't work for me.  A great deal of the original's appeal for me is in the sober, understated approach that Cohen takes.  I'm finding these big voices increasingly boring these days.

I'm not a Diana Ross or Mariah Carey fan, it's not aimed at me.  If that makes me a snob, so be it.  I've been called worse things, and I tend to think that what (insert some number) Daves said is true.

The X-Factor?  I suppose my main problem with it is that it takes itself so painfully seriously at times, or rather the judges do, rather than acknowledge it for the novelty marketing exercise it is.  That probably makes me a snob too.

[LC]

Aye, I hate how seriously and important X Factor takes itself. And that it dominates the media for about 3 months. I don't need to know who Diana Vickers is. Anyway, listened to Cohen's, Wainright's and Buckley's version of this song last night. I remember nothing. Who cares?

I mean, it's obvious that they chose this song to court the obvious 'controversy' yeah?

[SavageHedgehog]

I wouldn't put it past them but at the same time I'd be somewhat surprised to be honest. I think they're just trying to develop a reputation for "quality" by selecting some of the more instant/populist songs by "respectable" artists.

[Marvin]

Presumably it was chosen because Cowell's employers Sony BMG own sole rights to it and won't have to pay any pesky royalties to the author.

[LC]

So, we'll go with 'all of the above'? I mean, they must've anticipated the controversy and subsequent 'backlash'...

[23 Daves]

So, we'll go with 'all of the above'? I mean, they must've anticipated the controversy and subsequent 'backlash'...

Maybe JK was in on it.  It was him who tried to get everyone to "get behind" Buckley's version on this forum, after all.

[LC]

Artemis was in on it. Drumming up hype for Vickers.

[LC]

never seen anyone so wanton, so steaming

[Howj Begg]

Just saw 'The Edukators' and guess what turned up?

Fucking hell. It didn't improve the film one bit.

Actually the film was a steaming pile of totally unoriginal shite anyway without that bold soundtrack choice.

[SavageHedgehog]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA048pcITlA&eurl=http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2008/12/hallelujah-why.html[/youtube]

To be honest, and I hate to admit it for a couple of reasons, I like it.